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<samueldr>
took some annoying effort since I tried to do it in a dumb way, but finally, remade the previous layout to my website instead of that last one I didn't like https://samuel.dionne-riel.com/
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<srhb>
eyJhb: Ah, life of a student. :-P
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<eyJhb>
srhb: because I just woke up? :p
<srhb>
Yes :P
<srhb>
eyJhb: I'm just jealous of course.
<srhb>
(Not on being a student, that was hard work...)
<eyJhb>
Ahh.. :p Like.. I have work, but I am just getting the most out of the summer :D
<eyJhb>
Yeah... I really want to be done and make bank srhb ;) GUessing you have a hell of a lot more money than me :D
<eyJhb>
Else you should properly look into it if you don't get more than 6k a month :p
<srhb>
eyJhb: I do get quite a lot more than that, yeah. Just switched jobs, ended up with a decent contract. Or rather, will end up with, starting on the 1st of october :)
<srhb>
And yes, being a student wasn't easy financially either. :P I recall quite vividly.
<eyJhb>
Being a student is basically never having free.. And beeing a student with car means extra work, without actually getting the money before repairs :p The worst part is basically the constant thought of "homework"..
<eyJhb>
Wow congrats srhb ! Can you say where?
<srhb>
Yeah, back to DBC (Dansk Bibliotekscenter). And thank you :)
<srhb>
So, back to working on Nix and stuff. That's quite nice!
<eyJhb>
Why back to DBC? Same position?
<srhb>
Essentially yes :) Well, no hard feelings with DMI whatsoever, but I wasn't enjoying their... I guess work process. They're moving in the right direction (more testing, more reproducibility, more efficiency, more automation, ...) but it's just a long journey and I wasn't coping well with going through yet another "let's create a modern infrastructure" when I can get that elsewhere.
<srhb>
I mean, it's a ton of work and I feel like I've been there, done that.
<srhb>
No one will benefit from me being grumpy about that :P
<eyJhb>
Does DBC use entirely NixOS? And yeah :D
<eyJhb>
Ahh I see, always hard having to change/setup infrastructure like that...
<srhb>
eyJhb: No, there's still a lot of legacy stuff, but it *is* considered legacy and they're working hard on moving things to an in-house "cloud" infrastructure based on NixOS :)
<eyJhb>
Yeah.. And what do you mean it wouldn't help? ;) Sitting grumpy in the corner "All these young kids and ... BACK IN MY DAY!" - Dunno :p
<srhb>
eyJhb: Right? Exactly that, only I'm the youngun (of 34, christ) yelling I want my popsicle :P
<srhb>
Interestingly part of the modern infrastructure movement also annoys me to no end.
<srhb>
Like, the cloud era has created so many shitty tools for mutating infrastructure in a really fast and uncontrolled manner.
<srhb>
So on top of being "hey, let's try something modern" I'm also super conservative about things like that.
<srhb>
I get to be grumpy from two perspectives! yay! :-P
<eyJhb>
srhb: why in-house? Wouldn't it be somewhat cheaper to host at a cloud provider (+ less hassle updating hardware). But I know the feeling of legacy.. We have some system that is hacked each day and restored each morning. Still in production...................
<eyJhb>
Ahh.. Shot in the dark without knowing your age :p But I see :D I totally get that... Tools that try to do everything in a "advanced" manner.. I just like simple things, that has X purpose and does it in a simple way
<srhb>
eyJhb: Oh no, it's way, way cheaper in-house.
<eyJhb>
Being grumpy is a way of life ;) And I don't think you can be in IT without being seen as grumpy :p I might be too
<srhb>
And updating hardware on a proper NixOS infrastructure is painless.
<eyJhb>
Hmm... Nice, I guess it depends on the scale as well. I have no clue of the scale you run at :p
<srhb>
Well, I've been gone a few years, but I think the main execution platform is something like 20 beefy container running machines.
<srhb>
In the order of 256GiB RAM, bunch of cores.
<eyJhb>
I just hope that cloud is the best choice for me, but I would assume it is...
<srhb>
Add to that a storage platform as well
<eyJhb>
So.. We are talking 20*256 GiB ram, etc.?
<srhb>
eyJhb: Honestly, I'm not that impressed with public cloud offerings after having tried running my own
<srhb>
eyJhb: Yes
<eyJhb>
Well.. After I started using DigitalOcean more, I am less than impressed. But I don't want to change my provider backend :p
<eyJhb>
AHh, make sense. Then it would make sense to run yourself
<srhb>
Also there's the whole freedom perspective.
<eyJhb>
Cloud is just nice if you need to spin up/down rapidly, and most of the time you don't need 20, but maybe just 1-2
<srhb>
I think this can be considered (non-critical, but still) national infrastructure.
<srhb>
eyJhb: Right. Buying a few extra machines and just keeping them offline until needed isn't really that bad.
<srhb>
I mean, try estimating eg. Amazon costs of a machine like that for a few years
<srhb>
Ideally, ignoring the freedom perspective, I think hybrid is the way to go. Just expand into the proprietary clouds with your overflow, keeping utilization real high in your own DC.
<eyJhb>
Yeah.. I think my case is edge case as usual.. - But if you want to donate some computing power feel free! :D
<srhb>
lol
<srhb>
Noted ;-)
<srhb>
Why is your case edge case?
<srhb>
I think low-utilization or very varying on-demand reqs tend to shift the argument somewhat. Maybe even a lot, depending.
<srhb>
(Say, Hydra builders)
<eyJhb>
When you say freedom, what do you mean?
<eyJhb>
Still my cyber security platform. So I basically offer something like "Hack the box" does, but much much more open.. So people can visit my site, and then spin up a container which they can try to attack and try out their abilities (closes after 30-45 minutes). WHich basically means, if there is a lot of users, it would require a lot of machines to run all those containers
<eyJhb>
Don't know if that makes sense. But it is basically dedicated containers for each person that wants to try to challenge their abilities :p
<srhb>
eyJhb: Ah, that's very cool :)
<srhb>
eyJhb: I mean freedom as in freedom from Amazon, Google, the USA, etc.
<joepie91>
eyJhb: obligatory question whether you're aware that most common container setups are *not* designed to contain untrusted users?
<eyJhb>
srhb: https://i.imgur.com/JY0YSH0.png is basically what I have for the frontend, the backend should be good-to-go. Basically when you remove css and js it does not look pretty :p
<eyJhb>
Yeah, agreed.. That is a huge pro
<eyJhb>
joepie91: yes completely aware! It is possible to break out of Docker as well, but if you do not run everything as root is makes it harder, but also, it wouldn't be the end of the world at all
<srhb>
eyJhb: Sounds fun :)
<eyJhb>
The VPS basically just runs binary X, with a token that allows the agent (VPS) to modify its own attributes on the server :p But yes :)
<eyJhb>
srhb: It is! Hoping I soon can have my first PoC, so I can use it when I have to meet with a potential sponsor :) But there is so much work to do.. And I am doing it solo, while AAU is also working on something like this. Difference is, they have a much larger budget, while I have around 0,- DKK
<srhb>
eyJhb: Hope the sponsor meeting goes well then.
<eyJhb>
Yeah, me too. I like working on the project, but I simple can't if I can't pay the bills...
<eyJhb>
Btw. did pride go well srhb ?
<eyJhb>
btw. joepie91 always open for suggestions :p
<adisbladis>
Who's at camp
<sphalerite>
eyJhb: VMs!
<sphalerite>
eyJhb: also, when you said 6k/month, I was very confused about your sense of scale. Until I realised Denmark has DKK, not Euros…
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<eyJhb>
sphalerite: very very costly to run with too much overhead compared to contaienrs :p
<eyJhb>
Yeah, I wouldn't complain about 45.000,- DKK a month for being a student :D
<eyJhb>
But I do seem to recall, that there is some lightweight VM stuff, right?
<joepie91>
eyJhb: I'd recommend looking at either OpenVZ or unprivileged LXC
<joepie91>
both are meant to contain untrusted things
<joepie91>
both are containers
<joepie91>
re: lightweight VMs you're probably thinking of firecracker
<eyJhb>
joepie91: as far as I remember, Docker bases itself on LXC
<eyJhb>
Yeah that was the one :D
<joepie91>
eyJhb: no, Docker is a separate container runtime, it just uses some overlapping set of kernel features that LXC also uses
<eyJhb>
Should properly look at firecracker at some point
<joepie91>
eyJhb: firecracker is not likely to help much in your case
<joepie91>
it's still full virt, with reserved memory and all
<eyJhb>
joepie91: I have another case where I need VMs :p
<joepie91>
so if overhead is your concern, it won't be better than QEMU/KVM
<joepie91>
the main selling point of firecracker is low overhead and fast startup for short-lived VMs
<joepie91>
as well as a reduced attack surface
<eyJhb>
Which is basicaly what I need for another kind of exercises
<joepie91>
QEMU/KVM might actually be more suited here since you can balloon memory
<joepie91>
ah :P
<eyJhb>
But regarding OpenVZ/LXC vs. Docker, there is also the main advantage of Docker, people pretty much know how to use it.. And if I want other people to start making exercises as well, it should be easy to go at. And basically, as long as Docker runs unprivileged, non-root, you would have to come up with a zero-day to escape it (as far as I know) :p E.g. like this ->
<eyJhb>
And even if you escape, congrats, you now have access to all the same that is publicly available on Gitlab etc. :p
<eyJhb>
But I do understand what you are saying, and I might be wrong in what I am saying.. So if I am being stupid, point it out ;)
<joepie91>
eyJhb: the main problem with "you would need a zero-day to escape it" is that Docker simply doesn't have "contain untrusted code" as a design goal
<eyJhb>
Didn't know firecracker was from Amazon.. Should have known
<joepie91>
this significantly increases the likelihood of a vulnerability existing
<joepie91>
this is unlike OpenVZ which is specifically designed to contain untrusted code, for example
<joepie91>
whether you actually care about the host system being compromised is a different consideration of course, but using Docker (or any other container system not designed for secure isolation) really is a bigger risk than using something like OpenVZ
<eyJhb>
Yeah of course it is, but it is always pros/cons, and if I were to run OpenVZ, LXC, etc. I would still somewhat require Docker to run inside, as it is much easier to build such a image...
<joepie91>
eyJhb: sure, it's a matter of tradeoffs. but "hardening" is still not equivalent to something that was designed to be secure by default :)
<eyJhb>
Of course not :D Would never argue it is
<joepie91>
right :P
<eyJhb>
Also currently, I really have no clue how many normal exercises that would provide you user access.. Because the secound part (why firecracker makes sense), is basically same concept as boxes with HTB. User access then root access.. And then I do not feel that safe anymore :p
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<ar>
whoever brought the small silver NixOS stickers to the camp, thanks :)
<ar>
they look nice and seem to be high-quality stickers
<eyJhb>
etu?
<etu>
hey
<etu>
It wasn't me
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<gchristensen>
I played DnD last night for the first time. pretty fun!
<joepie91>
I should try that some time
<gchristensen>
I was really not thrilled about creating a character. that part was not fun for me
<joepie91>
how come?
<gchristensen>
it felt complicated and tedious: characters are quite complicated to build
<gchristensen>
but I didn't have a mental framework to fit any of it in to, so it was just busy work
<joepie91>
ah, right
<joepie91>
I have a similar problem with the character creation in a lot of RPG games actually
<gchristensen>
exactly
<gchristensen>
you mean, like, on the computer?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: yeah
<joepie91>
it's like, nice, all these buttons and options and tradeoffs, but I have no idea what this game is going to be like, so how can I know what I should pick for what experience?
<gchristensen>
yeah, so I find that boring/annoying too, and this was way worse
<joepie91>
are there useless things in there? useful things? if they're all balanced, why don't I just get a randomly generated character? etc.
<joepie91>
it's like Analysis Paralysis: The Game :p
<pie_>
^\
<gchristensen>
yeah so I want to reiterate that it was fun once I got past that :
<gchristensen>
)
<Taneb>
I enjoy playing D&D a lot :)
<joepie91>
gchristensen: aye :P
<joepie91>
I really should try it!
<joepie91>
it's always seemed daunting to me in an odd way
<Taneb>
Hardest part for me is normally finding a group, and then finding a schedule
<gchristensen>
that is a challenge
<gchristensen>
although for me the hardest part is feeling comfortable playing like that
<Taneb>
Mmm
<joepie91>
well, I mean, I could probably find a group, but part of the daunting-ness is in that they'd likely all be people who are MUCH more acquainted with the game than I am
<joepie91>
and yeah, feeling comfortable about it is another part of it for me
<gchristensen>
2019 has so far been a year about facing those fears
<srhb>
eyJhb: Sorry I dropped off suddenlyt. Yes, thanks, Pride went very well! Great debates all around.
<srhb>
And the parade too of course
<joepie91>
gchristensen: similar for me, though in a somewhat different context :)
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<eyJhb>
srhb: Quite alright :p Are there debates at pride??
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: I too hate people! \s :)
<eyJhb>
joepie91 & gchristensen in what context are you both referring to?
<srhb>
eyJhb: Yes! The afternoon program from tuesday to saturday is laced with debates, while the evenings are mostly the big stage and music and drag shows and whatnot :)
<srhb>
The former is called the human rights programme, and it's become quite high quality imo.
<eyJhb>
I might be ignorant for asking srhb, but what are they debating? Human rights regarding "being yourself" (don't know how else to put it)
<srhb>
eyJhb: Lots of rainbow-esque topics of all kinds ranging from refugee policymaking to asexual 101. It's pretty diverse.
<joepie91>
eyJhb: for me, it's about learning to feel comfortable in expressing that I unironically enjoy things or like people
<eyJhb>
srhb: yeah okay, so not all pride related as such (refugee policy) :) What are your own stance on pronouns, how some might want to be referred to?
<srhb>
For instance, the one I went to on refugee policy talked about the inherent problem with dealing with UNHCR protections for being, say, persecuted for being homosexual, but then requiring that the refugee document their sexuality to a police officer. That is, something that could potentially get them killed normally, but expecting them to be incredibly open in this new context.
<eyJhb>
joepie91: ah :) I see ! :)
<srhb>
eyJhb: I call people by the pronouns they they prefer, if that was your question.
<eyJhb>
srhb: Makes sense regarding refugee policy, never really thought/heard about that. - Yeah, that was my question :)
<joepie91>
(specifically, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Refresco, and Bavaria -- if you're not one of those, good luck getting your drink on store shelves)
<srhb>
ooo can I get a tomato soda somewhere.
<srhb>
... actually I think I just want a bloody mary. Must be all the celery talk.
<__monty__>
joepie91: You're forgetting Hero.
<joepie91>
__monty__: I'm not counting the handful of 'legacy producers' who have a difficult time getting anything new of theirs onto store shelves :)
<joepie91>
there's another one, the one that makes Raak stuff
<joepie91>
United Soft Drinks
<joepie91>
like, their really old products that they've been making for decades are on store shelves, and maaaaybe a 'zero' version of them
<joepie91>
but you never see the weird variants of theirs appear
<joepie91>
even USD has a hard time staying in stores
<eyJhb>
srhb: catch the plane and meet my in Jomfru Ane Gade, then drinks are easily available :p
<srhb>
eyJhb: Thanks for the offer! I think I've had all my trips to that street though xP
<eyJhb>
Ohh I do not believe that srhb ! One can always go for one more haha. But I will say, most of my experiences are work days where I have uni. Not the best idea. Lectures become 10 times longer all of the sudden
<srhb>
Ouch, yes, I believe that :P
<srhb>
We have a very good student bar at the faculty of science over here, so... Going to town rarely happened :P
<eyJhb>
Ohh... We have DE klubben at AAU.. Which is every thursday. Whoever planned that is EVIL
<eyJhb>
But yours is properly bigger :p
<srhb>
And.. Every day from 12. :P
<srhb>
(as in noon...)
<eyJhb>
Wait, your bar starts at 12?
<srhb>
Well, it's also free coffee, tea, cocoa.
<srhb>
But yes.
<srhb>
I barely remember my first year, had to learn a few things about postponing desires :P
<eyJhb>
*the desire for alcohol I assume :p
<Taneb>
I think the bars at my uni started serving at noon, too
<eyJhb>
Reminds me I have half a bottle of wine I should take care of
<srhb>
Good beer good company. :P
<srhb>
Taneb: Ah, so it's not unheard of!
<Taneb>
srhb: perhaps not!
<eyJhb>
We usually just have bars on fridays :/ Except our bar
<Taneb>
(I personally don't really enjoy alcohol)
<Taneb>
(don't mind the half-bottle of vodka in my fridge)
<Taneb>
(don't ask why it's in my fridge, either)
<eyJhb>
I might go out on a limb and say, the danish drinking culture is... yeah.. dunno, much
<srhb>
Alcohol culture in Denmark is.. Kind of strange. I remember it was still problematic, though improving, with non-drinking students. Like, there was a lot of poor behaviour and "but WHY" in the beginning, but it helped
<eyJhb>
There is still quite a lot "but why?!"
<srhb>
True.
<srhb>
Progress, but probably not nearly enough :)
<drakonis>
i remember some 14 year old drinking
<eyJhb>
Even for new people begining at uni.. But we have started to serve like.. Water and such
<srhb>
eyJhb: Radical!
<drakonis>
some kid drinking alcohol years before he should
<eyJhb>
drakonis: I think I started at 13 :|
<eyJhb>
srhb Yes indeed!
<srhb>
drakonis: I would say that's par for the course here.
<__monty__>
Taneb: You mean the Spa-brand bottle half-filled with wodka?
<srhb>
But I think we do have a very sad EU record in this area.
<eyJhb>
srhb: But it IS a _record_
<Taneb>
__monty__: actually it's Sainsbury's (it was for making a pasta sauce)
<srhb>
eyJhb: :P
<cransom>
my uni was known for a heavy drinking culture. you always watched your step on the first weekend of classes as the incoming freshman did not yet learn how to drink responsibly.
<eyJhb>
But tbh. I am out of training srhb, so I might be out waaaay before you
<srhb>
eyJhb: It's been a few years since uni, and like I said, I learned a bit :P
<eyJhb>
But that either means, you hold back drinking, or you learned how to drink a lot
<samueldr>
oof, that first picture I thought it was some kind of small monkey
<eyJhb>
samueldr: being off-topic about nixos should be on-topic, right?
<gchristensen>
really cute
<eyJhb>
Yeah, I saw that after I sent it :p Wasn't that good of a image
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: yeah, really considering if I could have a rabiit, might be fun
<eyJhb>
Or might be poop all over and eaten cables (or both)
<cransom>
they aren't particularly social animals, if thats what you are looking for.
<cransom>
at least not usually unless they are super socialized from a young age.
<gchristensen>
that is probably good to know
<eyJhb>
cransom: from what I hear, it is very dependent on how you keep them :/ Because if you keep them outside in a cage, then no. But most I have talked to that have them as in-door pets that roam free in the house, they are very very social and wants to cuddle all the time
<eyJhb>
If it is somewhere in-between, it would be great.. But depends from bunny to bunny :/ Have you had any cransom ?
<cransom>
a very logn time ago i had a couple rabbits. they weren't cuddly and they were inside animals, but they didn't roam the house either. we temporarily had some guinea pigs (long story, but basically pet sitting) and while one had 0 fear to people, the others were at best, pretty cautious.
<eyJhb>
Ahh, that doesn't sound that fun then if they didn't want to be pet/held.. That would be one of the reasons for getting one, while still being somewhat independent (even though I know they aren't as independent as e.g. cats). - The latter sounds like all guinea pigs I have ever met :/
<samueldr>
cat "independance" is sometimes overstated... they want to be left alone, but not necessarily be alone :) (in my experience)
<eyJhb>
samueldr: true, but most of the time they can be alone for quite some more time than most animals without really suffering from it. At least that is my experience with british shorthair
<eyJhb>
But I mostly see a non-independent animal as like a dog, which cannot be left alone for a weekend or even a day
<samueldr>
yeah, cats will be able to cope better with being tended daily for a few minutes, or in some cases left alone with two days worth of food
<samueldr>
though when I left for a week, the last few times, my cat definitely shows how much my presence has been missed :)
<eyJhb>
But I do agree with you.. As soon as my brother leaves the room, his cat starts going off :p
<eyJhb>
That seems accurate!
<eyJhb>
What kind of cat is it?
<samueldr>
hm, no particular pedigree
<eyJhb>
Well, all cats are sweet, so :p
<eyJhb>
But it is always a big decision if one should get a pet. So much to take into consideration
<samueldr>
"get a pet" is the wrong way to think about it, it's adopting :)
<samueldr>
(not saying that wasn't what you meant)
<samueldr>
(though sometimes people do "get" a pet like they would furniture)
<elvishjerricco>
My cat won't leave me alone while I'm home, but doesn't care about being left alone for several days
<eyJhb>
samueldr: of course :) Part of the family. As I do agree.. I have met some o fthe worst pet owners I hope to ever meet...
<eyJhb>
elvishjerricco: so I am guessing cat on keyboard happens a lot?
<samueldr>
speaking of, I'm so "lucky", my cat actually doesn't jump on my desk at all :/
<elvishjerricco>
On the laptop, yes :P
<elvishjerricco>
Desktop keyboard, never
<samueldr>
(training at young age not to climb on surfaces)
<elvishjerricco>
Mine jumps on my desk purely as a mechanism for getting into my lap
<samueldr>
and training to allow climbing on higher grounds :)
* gchristensen
wishes he wasn't allergic
<samueldr>
if the cat has higher ground to stand on, it's likely they won't be interested in desks tables and food prep surfaces
<eyJhb>
That doesn't seem like it is a bad thing samueldr :p
<eyJhb>
elvishjerricco: no space on my lap when I am sitting at my desk :|
<samueldr>
yeah, "luck" in quote was because it wasn't luck :)
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: get a inside-out cat? :D
<eyJhb>
Ahh, it seemed like you wished the cat did it
<samueldr>
no, definitely fine with the cat not stepping on my everythings
<eyJhb>
My brothers I think ~7-8 kg cat thinks he is so stealthy when he jumps down from tables, like you can't hear him..
<aanderse>
got my cake day sticker on discourse today :-)
<gchristensen>
happy cake day! :o
<aanderse>
thanks!
<joepie91>
I got really excited upon reading "cake day sticker".. and then I realized it wasn't about a physical sticker :(
<aanderse>
ask gchristensen to mail you a cake sticker when he mails you a nix maintainer sticker
<aanderse>
he's a nice guy, I'm sure he will ;-)
<gchristensen>
hehe
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: can I get a uesless sticker?
<joepie91>
(derived from the old default jekyll theme, but with quite some changes)
<aanderse>
samueldr: awesome! full time nix dev! dream come true right :-D
<samueldr>
joepie91: and a good one
<samueldr>
your design is nice joepie91
<joepie91>
\o/
<gchristensen>
samueldr: were you going to put that link on the tweeter?
<samueldr>
oh, I maybe should lol
<gchristensen>
if you don't, I will
<eyJhb>
joepie91: IT seems like your ramblings have moved away from the blog? ;)
<joepie91>
samueldr: also, I think I already congratulated you, but congratulations again :)
<samueldr>
thanks y'all for the congratulations
<joepie91>
eyJhb: originally due to a nixpkgs issue actually, but I've been less active with publishing articles lately in general
<joepie91>
some stuff that has been in the pipeline for 2 years now
<joepie91>
whee extra unexpected money
<joepie91>
(turns out that $client had overlooked two invoices, and they just got paid)
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<eyJhb>
Just got a swedish scam mail.. Seems weird why it wouldn't just be in english
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<samueldr>
jtojnar: there's an RSS feed now
<jtojnar>
samueldr: thanks, subscribed
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<joepie91>
samueldr: someone elsewhere is wondering what the "mobile NixOS" would entail, in terms of concrete work to be done
<samueldr>
hm, not sure how to answer, a big part of it is "doing it"... another part is getting the devices booting, then the last is making them useful
<samueldr>
the part I think will take the most time, and is the biggest risk of the project, is figuring out how to make the modem work in a useful manner, sms, calls, internet
<samueldr>
then there's integration work with nixos
<samueldr>
the boot process is not made with the expectation that the user can choose a generation to boot, stuff like that
<joepie91>
samueldr: are you targeting devices on which Linux hasn't been made to run eyt?
<joepie91>
yet*
<pie_>
dont think about apps dont think about apps dont think about apps dont think about apps LD
<pie_>
* :D
<samueldr>
as of right now, Android-based devices (of which there are different flavours)
<samueldr>
and the pinephone
<joepie91>
samueldr: right, but also ones on which stock Linux won't run? as you're talking about "making the modem work"
<samueldr>
what do you mean by "stock Linux"? (making sure we have the same definitions here)
<joepie91>
samueldr: as in, a mainline kernel
<samueldr>
infinisil: orthogonally useful yeah
<joepie91>
(not Android)
<samueldr>
joepie91: working with the OEM released kernels
<samueldr>
though it would be nice to work with mainline
<joepie91>
samueldr: then I'm not sure I follow why the modem wouldn't already be working?
<samueldr>
the RIL has userspace components
<samueldr>
and I'm not sure, from the research, that there are what it takes to e.g. plug that into ofono
<samueldr>
research was kinda hard on that :/
<joepie91>
right
<samueldr>
so yes "it's already working", but with pieces left to assemble
<samueldr>
and porbably no guide
<samueldr>
well, almost definitely unless I overlooked a project
<samueldr>
I have, as part of the longtime goals, the goal to figure out a strategy to unify OEM kernel trees, and then forward port those unified trees
<samueldr>
though this is longtime
<samueldr>
long-term*
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<pie_>
gchristensen: can you hold a talk on making pie