gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<colemickens> I wish I could query the daemon for more stuff. For example, nix-build-uncached breaks when nix cli changes.
supersandro2000 has quit [Disconnected by services]
<cole-h> Would be nice if there was a (documented) API for it.
<andi-> gchristensen: stop breaking the world! Think positive! :)
supersandro2000 has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> :P
* andi- tries the kernel repo
<colemickens> cole-h: I hope it's coming with the riir that the elves are working on
<gchristensen> lol oh no
<gchristensen> man, my pause button for programs is really nice
<gchristensen> it really puts slack in my control
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: Pause button?
<elvishjerricco> Neat
rajivr has joined #nixos-chat
<supersandro2000> anu.dev or just keep using git
<hexa-> supersandro2000: have you tried anu?
<supersandro2000> Is there any good reason to?
<supersandro2000> git is also free, decentralized and open source
<gchristensen> patches are nice
<supersandro2000> except if you are rebasing or merging
<gchristensen> patches are better for that, though
<supersandro2000> and having snapshots is always more deterministic
<gchristensen> uhhh lol okay
<supersandro2000> the snapshot is the state and I don't need to calculate something to get it
<gchristensen> I've had too many surprising merges to be comfortable with snapshots
<supersandro2000> patches either apply right, wrong or they don't
<samueldr> what if
<samueldr> bear with me
<samueldr> but what if there was a software to help you manage those patches?
* ashkitten becomes a bear alongside samueldr
<andi-> just had my first sway crash..
<gchristensen> first???
<supersandro2000> and that is anu?
<andi-> yeah first, but it had been running for like >20 days or so
<ajs124> maybe I should really try wayland. I'm sure the kde people found new and exciting ways for their software to crash on me :P
<supersandro2000> I don't think git fooled me anymore than anything else
<V> supersandro2000: no, it's called git-series
<V> use git, anu is new, probably has issues (pijul definitely did), and their hosting software (nest) is closed-source
<gchristensen> meh we don't need to persuade you. use it or don't :)
<supersandro2000> ajs124: Dolphin does not work with MTP on some smartphones
<V> patches and snapshots are equivalent and can be converted to from
<V> er
<V> can be converted to and from each other
<gchristensen> V: they're not :(
<V> gchristensen: they aren't?
<supersandro2000> well than anu is at the exact same state as git except you pay early adopter tax
<ajs124> supersandro2000: I gave up on MTP years ago.
<V> gchristensen: using the more fundamental delta vs snapshot model, not specifically unified diff files
<V> I know that unidiffs hold less information than snapshots do
<gchristensen> V: they're not, because I can write a patch which conveys more information than a patch extracted from two snapshots can provide
<supersandro2000> ajs124: if you want to transfer files from your phone over cable you don't have any other option
<ajs124> supersandro2000: I just use "adb"
<gchristensen> like when git incorrectly matches } and if ... segments
<V> right
<gchristensen> making diffing substantially more complicated
<supersandro2000> ajs124: 🤔 wait yeah that works better
<gchristensen> and rebasing that patch around *much* harder
<supersandro2000> gchristensen: use a different diff algorithm like histogram together with delta
<andi-> Is this website one big troll? https://smarter.am/collections/ikettle-2020
<gchristensen> supersandro2000: not sufficient
<andi-> "remote boil"
<supersandro2000> boil your water from the go?
<V> gchristensen: honestly, if structural diffing were commonplace
<gchristensen> if anu works like pijul ...
<V> I feel that would beat whatever benefits patch-based systems give you
<ajs124> I totally need that. Just like I need kryptochef.net to be back online :'(
<ajs124> andi-:
<andi-> I fear it is not a troll.
<andi-> There are actually cloud controlled kettles these days
<supersandro2000> anyway, if anu is better we can talk about it in a few years after you hunted down all the painful bugs
<ajs124> I won't buy it if it can't do full bit encryption between my kettle and phone.
<V> the more important question here is if you can start a fire with a kettle
<V> if you boil it empty and force the heating element to remain on permanently
<andi-> just flash the "no safeties (experts only)" firmware
<gchristensen> # ceo mode
Dotz0cat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<ajs124> You can tell it's real, because of the shitty blurry image with text on it.
<ajs124> Noone that does good satire would do such a thing.
<andi-> HELP!
<andi-> I was honestly just looking for a kettle with temperature regulation.. Mine has a stupid loose connection for about 3y now and I keep on grumping about it....
<samueldr> dunno, I would like a Free firmware-enabled way to start my kettle in the morning
<V> andi-: you could always build that yourself
<samueldr> but not a "smart" "cloudy" thing
<ajs124> ooh, I've been thinking if I should get a kettle with a temp dial, myself
<samueldr> that way when I start my day, the water would be ready much quicker for tea
<andi-> I usually just prepare breakfast while I wait for my hot tea water...
<andi-> hasn't been a concern for me
<gchristensen> the stove works well for me
<samueldr> I'm not an european with fancy 220V angry pixies, but still, a real kettle is worth it compared to the stove top
<samueldr> real electric kettle*
<gchristensen> get 2 kettles and smash together
<samueldr> I wish
<ajs124> if you're in the US, don't you have two phases with 180° phase offset and 110V each? can't you hook up a kettle to that, somehow?
<samueldr> which, andi-, you would have to understand that it takes maybe about twice as long here to boil!
<samueldr> ajs124: not necessarily 180°
<samueldr> it could be 120° for three phases
<andi-> so you are enjoying your tea time twice as long?
<samueldr> then you get ~204V IIRC
<samueldr> there's no way I can enjoy anything before drinking or eating something in the morning, so I don't think so
<gchristensen> ajs124: the plug is massive, too, hehe
<andi-> samueldr: you could convert all the sockets to a proper(tm) system ;)
<samueldr> the socket is not the power, it's what's distributed on the grid :)
<ajs124> gchristensen: what do you use? IEC 60309?
<samueldr> the socket is not the problem*
<ajs124> ah, no. that's what we use for our 3 phase current, but at 220V per phase
<samueldr> NEMA for north-american plugs
<andi-> smater.am is missing a careers page..
<andi-> maybe faker afterall?
<andi-> s/faker/fake/
<gchristensen> lol
<V> maybe it's a startup
<ajs124> is… is. is homedepot.com not accessible from the EU??
<ajs124> or are all my IPs bad?
<V> o.o
<V> mine gave access denied
<andi-> yeah
<andi-> apparently
<ajs124> wow
<V> yeah, just tried it from a US IP of mine and got the full page
<andi-> can't compare pricess across the pond!
<andi-> Would have to implement GDPR otherwise?!
<samueldr> :/
slack1256 has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> for the record it's $8.89 at the moment
<samueldr> though it's not obvious what the scale is
<samueldr> [!! will auto-download] with dimensions https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/LC_DOC_DDG_PNG_279.png
* V selects "open in sxiv"
Dotz0cat has joined #nixos-chat
<andi-> They are setting a cookie.. Time to prepare that GDPR thingy
<ajs124> that's a big socket/plug. then again, if you want it to carry 50A o.O
<samueldr> yeah
<V> andi-: oh oh
<ajs124> you can boil water with that very fast. just attach the water to this outlet directly, no need for any heating element.
<ajs124> add salt for faster boiling
* V horror
slack1256 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
slack1256 has joined #nixos-chat
<andi-> is there a kettle with salt dispenser yet?
* andi- invents new product
<aleph-> So I miss anything good the last few weeks?
<andi-> there is some shit show going on in the US right now
<aleph-> joepie91: Welp finally having to learn nodeJS and JS proper.
<aleph-> andi-: Well yeah, I meant in nixery.
slack1256 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bridge[evilred] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
supersandro2000 has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
supersandro2000 has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
endformationage has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
cjpbirkbeck has quit [Quit: Goodbye, take care]
bqv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<aleph-> Nice, danke
tilpner has quit [Quit: tilpner]
<lovesegfault> gh makes my life so much better
<lovesegfault> like goddamn it's nice to make changes and open a PR without ever going to my browser
cole-h has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<energizer> cant wait till i can make changes and open a pr without going to my terminal :)
<energizer> without leaving my browser, even
<lovesegfault> energizer: I think that's already possible?
<lovesegfault> GH has a built-in editor IIRC
<lovesegfault> I think they'll be replacing it with full-blown vscode in the browser
<energizer> not sure if that makes nix more useful or less useful
<energizer> if everybody's dev environment is the same because it's just in the browser, there's no 'it works on my machine'
<lovesegfault> the solution was always getting rid of the machines
<energizer> will be pretty happy to have an application environment with actual sandboxing
<colemickens> Gitpod is a free-r version
<energizer> beer or speech?
<colemickens> Well, it's built with Theia, an Eclipse component
<colemickens> and then gitpod is (partially) dual licensed
<colemickens> but if you just want the "vs code in browser", thats Apache Theia
<colemickens> Theia + Nix is some galaxy brain stuff that I want to get going, but I suck at npm.
<energizer> i guess nixos isn't really intended as a daily driver so uncontainerized sandboxing isn't as important as it is in windows/macos/android/ios
<energizer> hell even ubuntu is using snap
FRidh has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> energizer: Not intended as a daily driver??
<energizer> eyJhb: nix is primarily funded by corporations who want nixos on servers. contrast with windows/macos/android/ios
<eyJhb> Not entirely sure that is right honestly. But it is a good use case
* lovesegfault uses NixOS on all his systems
<lovesegfault> desktop or otherwise
<eyJhb> Same
<energizer> you use mobile nixos lovesegfault?
<eyJhb> But places that would like the same config many places, also desktop e.g. hospitals, libraries
<lovesegfault> energizer: No, I don't fuck with phones
<eyJhb> But your comment seemed more targeted against desktop
<eyJhb> Which is not really true...
<energizer> sorry i dont follow, which part isn't true?
<eyJhb> Not being intended as a daily driver
<eyJhb> Not sure how NixOS is not intended for that
<energizer> if it were it would have prioritized desktop features like gui installer, gui configuration, application sandboxing
<energizer> (like the daily driver OSes all have)
<energizer> i'll admit to some circularity in my argument here :)
<colemickens> "application sandboxing"
<colemickens> Also, I don't think lack of features is lack of desire of features necessarily
bqv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
<energizer> not sure what you mean by the quotes
<energizer> sure everything is about priorities
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
* colemickens isn't bought in on flatpak/snap, I guess
<energizer> maybe someday we'll be running spectrumOS and be secure, but now any app on my computer can do whatever it wants
<energizer> +1 qyliss
bqv has quit [Client Quit]
<eyJhb> energizer: ehhh, some of us is actually sandboxing quite a lot :p I want to spend more time on it, but...
<energizer> eyJhb: how are you doing it?
<eyJhb> nsjail and a module for it
<energizer> to complete the sentence, ...but tweag isn't paying anybody to work on desktop features
<eyJhb> I think the money are in server stuff, which is understandable
<eyJhb> I have a little dream of getting some libraries to use it for frontend desktop computers.
<eyJhb> But we already use NixOS for the backends that support them! Thanks to srhb and the team! :D
<energizer> right nixos' money is in servers, which is why that's where its priorities are
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> But still, not being a daily driver is putting it far :p Not being like Ubuntu, debian, etc. is something else
bqv has quit [Client Quit]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
thibm has joined #nixos-chat
<srhb> Dunno, I see Tweags focus as being mostly in dev workflow, possibly leaning slightly towards user flow rather than "things that are good for NixOS" -- but right now the direction is changing very fast and without a visibly coherent plan. I'll reserve judgment for later :)
<srhb> But yes, probably not "desktop" things unless you count developers in that.
bqv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> srhb: Yeah, maybe! I haven't been in the game for long enough to know
<Taneb> If someone told me that they'd pay me full time to make NixOS a good desktop OS, I would tell them that I am probably not the right person for the job, but secretly I would be sorely tempted
<eyJhb> Taneb: Same... :p I would suck at it..
<srhb> Taneb: There are loads of people in the community that I think would be great fits :)
<eyJhb> srhb: pressure them into it!
<eyJhb> With asking kindly
<srhb> Are you offering to pay? :P
<srhb> I don't think much pressure would be involved at all ;)
<eyJhb> With all the money I do not have :p
<eyJhb> Maybe if I make a really good case for Nix at LEGO. then!
<eyJhb> I am actually somewhat sure, that if you can make a good case for them, and why it is useful/what it can be used for, then they would be OK with it.
<eyJhb> srhb: but when will you be offering a frontfacing PC solutions to our libraries with thin clients or something? ;)
<srhb> I think that's fairly outside my area of expertise... :P Sorry!
<eyJhb> Damn it srhb... But maybe it should be inside your area of expertise! \s
<eyJhb> Also wondering, can you namedrop any of the desktop pros you are thinking of?
<srhb> I'd rather let them do it on their own if they want to. :P
<pie_> desktop prose
<eyJhb> Keep your secrets then! :p
<eyJhb> srhb: if you have time, I have some nix questions in #nixos ;)
bqv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
bqv has quit [Client Quit]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
<ar> Taneb: "good desktop os" is not a well defined problem
tilpner has joined #nixos-chat
<etu> Hmm... I recently started to look into flakes and moving some systems to flakes. I like it so far. But it's one habit I have that I would like to keep which is "nix-shell --run fish -p attribute-name" which doesn't work...
<etu> Any way to make nix-shell commands like that work while using flakes?
<etu> I of course don't have any channels set up
<etu> Maybe just set up a channel? But that feels "wrong"
<evalexpr> etu: Have you tried `nix shell`?
<etu> evalexpr: no :D
<etu> evalexpr: Now I have! It's great :)
bqv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
bqv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
bqv has joined #nixos-chat
bkv has joined #nixos-chat
bqv has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
bkv is now known as bqv
waleee-cl has joined #nixos-chat
<Mic92> etu: you can setup your NIX_PATH as well
<Mic92> with flakes
<Mic92> but nix shell also works
<elvishjerricco> wut. My iphone mail app shows me a new email which I can read, but the gmail web app does not seem to think this email exists at all
<__monty__> Eventual consistency, yay!?!
thibm has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
abathur has quit [Quit: abathur]
alan_ has joined #nixos-chat
alan_ has quit [Client Quit]
alan_ has joined #nixos-chat
alan_ has quit [Client Quit]
slack1256 has joined #nixos-chat
cole-h has joined #nixos-chat
slack1256 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
ninjin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ninjin has joined #nixos-chat
evanjs has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
evanjs has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> anyone mind to retweet this for me? https://twitter.com/grhmc/status/1324765493534875650
<cole-h> I don't think many people follow me, but sure :)
<gchristensen> thanks :)
<worldofpeace> gchristensen: ooh u quit?
<gchristensen> ya
<worldofpeace> aah, I guess "yay" 😸 I remember u saying u were just waiting for the moment
<gchristensen> =) yeah, turns out today was the day
<srhb> gchristensen: Grats on freedom! Straight onwards, no break? :)
<gchristensen> We'll see :)
* srhb nods
<srhb> Anyone using a tiling wm on an ultrawide? I feel like I want an ultrawide, but I also feel like workspaces get strictly less powerful.
<srhb> In general I'm going for more ergonomics, because eeeverything hurts right now, and I've been twisting for my multi screen setups before.
<srhb> No centering sucks.
<srhb> And another ergonomics question -- I think I want to try a keyboard with a softer "impact" when the key bottoms out... I hear I should start having opinions on key switches. What should I look for? any names that are good to try out?
<__monty__> What sort of keyboards do you use currently?
<__monty__> And have you considered a monitor that fits your field of view all at once?
<srhb> I... Type on my chiclet laptop built-in.
<srhb> Hence the joint pain :P
<srhb> So I guess I will get something that will at least let me try out different switches.
<__monty__> Hmm, I prefer scissor switches actually. Have you ever tried just an external keyboard? Positioning can be most of the battle.
<srhb> Like an idiot I got a chiclet external keyboard because I was used to that style, and I felt like that was way worse, because now I had to move my hand to reach the mouse (rather than just thumbing a touchpad below the keyboard on the laptop) with the typing experience being equally bad.
<__monty__> Well if you've tried it it's time for mechanical switches I guess.
<srhb> It's also not my wrists, like at all. So I'm also worried that I will be making positioning worse. Augh. :) Hard.
<__monty__> Moving your hand to the mouse can actually be a good thing though, rather than straining your hand it gets to relax for a bit and change position.
<srhb> Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
<gchristensen> srhb: agreed, tiling WMs on an ultrawide are not good
<__monty__> I do wish my keyboard didn't have arrow cluster and numpad though, would bring the trackpad closer.
<srhb> gchristensen: Sadface... Guess I'll have to get something asymmetrical.
<srhb> __monty__: That makes sense.
<gchristensen> I "float" windows a lot when I'm ultrawide
<srhb> Maybe I can make xmonad, like, partition one screen into three virtual workspaces.
<__monty__> You can code up your own layouts so I'm sure that should be possible.
<__monty__> Whether it's nice UX wise I dunno.
<LnL> I usually just have 3 vsplits open if I'm on a big screen :)
<__monty__> I guess my windows are kinda arranged in such a fashion. But I don't use an ultra-wide.
<eyJhb> Is github just really unstable atm.?
<eyJhb> Don't think I have gotton any internal server errors, etc. with a nginx frontend before MS took over
<__monty__> I saw similar complaints yesterday so probably yes?
<eyJhb> Got a bad gateway, while browsing to my own notificationsk
<cole-h> Finally got the anu repo cloned :D
<__monty__> How long did it take?
<eyJhb> Also, what is it?
<__monty__> eyJhb: Fwiw, notifications usually seem like the laggiest bit of github outside of huge issues.
<__monty__> eyJhb: The sequel to Pijul.
<cole-h> It was very fast. The process, however, took a while because of https timeouts and my gpg-agent not working for SSH authentication (even though it works everywhere else)
<joepie91> there's already a sequel to pijul?
<__monty__> No release yet afaik.
<waleee-cl> it's 1.0.0-alpha, so a flag is needed when installing via cargo
<eyJhb> I hoped that Docker + NixOS would have been nicer..
<srhb> cole-h: What's the clone command for the parent repo? :) Took a guess and unwrapped something that wasn't. :P
<cole-h> srhb: SSH is recommended over HTTPS, so, after adding your SSH key to the nest: `anu clone username@nest.anu.dev:anu/anu anu`
<cole-h> (note: it clones to the current directory unlike git, unless you specify an output folder)
<srhb> Oh, my own username, really?
<cole-h> Yep
<srhb> Fancy.
<srhb> cole-h: Thank you :)
<cole-h> :D
abathur has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> any suggestions on nice laptops? I need to get a new one asap so I'm not stuck typing on my server in the basement
iqubic has joined #nixos-chat
<cransom> depending on your inclination, i've went the super simple route and my remote computing is an ipad with a keyboard with tmuxes mostly to the server behind me.
<gchristensen> wow!
<gchristensen> I'm thinking the XPS 13, which is what I have now
<samueldr> those rather inexpensive Ryzen-based HPs
<samueldr> they are, IIRC, quite serviceable by the end-users, which is a big thing to consider if you don't want to buy future e-waste
<gchristensen> I don't want to cause ewaste, in fact I don't even want to send this laptop back to ultimately become e-waste.
<samueldr> HP sells them maxed at 16GB, but RAM vendors (which apparently are to be believed) quotes the machine as 32GB max
<gchristensen> huh
<hyperfekt> TIL 'nix' means 'snow' in latin. that makes the logo even better
<cransom> heh. i remember when i left a company, they gave me the option to buy my mbp. iirc, the cost on a 2 year old laptop was ~3-400 off of new. 'no thank you.'
<gchristensen> hah
<samueldr> one added benefit here with that Ryzen platform: no thunderbolt madness!
<gchristensen> oh good point, I have a thunderbolt dock that I like a lot but wouldn't mind replacing
<__monty__> As in, thunderbolt just works or as in if it's not there it can't be borked?
<samueldr> no thunderbolt
<samueldr> so you don't have to deal with updating the bios of your docks through windows-only utilities
<samueldr> or deal with DMA
<__monty__> So it's more of an enforced discipline thing? Since you don't *have* to use thunderbolt even if it's an option?
<gchristensen> thunderbolt can be a bit scary to have
<samueldr> you don't have to use it, but it's probably still active by default
<samueldr> and unless you use the appropriate services under linux, defaults to be open I think
<samueldr> I'd much rather not have it than have it, especially given the additional headaches it gives compared to USB
<samueldr> the only reason I would have liked to use it is the external GPU use case, but it seems it's not much of a thing really in the end
<__monty__> Hmm, so it's more of a security concern than a convenience concern?
<samueldr> kind of both, type-c is an horror, this is part of that horror
<gchristensen> the pervasive crashes of hot-plugged PCIe is a thing
<__monty__> samueldr: Because of the unpredictability of whether a particular combination of devices and cables will work as you intend?
<samueldr> yes
<samueldr> that's my main gripe with type-c
<samueldr> if it fits, it statistically probably doesn't work!
<samueldr> (I can't stats, it probably statistically works because of usb 2.0)
averell has quit [Quit: .]
<samueldr> (and most smartphones have a usb 2.0 type-c interface)
<__monty__> Ok, thanks for explaining your position.
<samueldr> but eh, you have a dock for your desk, a shiny new dock with a 20cm long cable
<pie_> universal segfault bus
<samueldr> looking for a replacement cable?
<samueldr> basically impossible to find a replacement cable
<samueldr> since it needs to be able to do the alternate modes for eDP
<samueldr> so you have this wonderfully standard thing that works with that single short cable it shipped with
<samueldr> so now you have to have that dock basically in the middle of the place instead of tucked away
<__monty__> I've heard of electrically off-standard USB-c cables so I agree the situation's far from ideal.
<gchristensen> I think I might just stick to the devil I know and go for the XPS
<gchristensen> now isn't a good time to be risking anything
<energizer> is there a reasonable threat model where it makes sense to encrypt the root partition on my vps?
<samueldr> gchristensen: won't it be a new model?
<samueldr> so actually risking things?
<gchristensen> it is the 2019 edition actually
<joepie91> energizer: yes; the provider improperly wiping your disk after service termination
averell has joined #nixos-chat
neeasade has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> there's also the whole not-intel thing with the ryzen laptops :)
<__monty__> gchristensen: You never miss a bigger screen/keyboard/battery? Now might be kind of a good time to get a bulkier laptop for a while.
<gchristensen> I don't, not really, heh
<elvishjerricco> I do really like the idea of Thunderbolt though. LTT put his workstation in a closet and used a fiber optic thunderbolt cable to connect all his peripherals in another room. Silent, and super powerful
<elvishjerricco> And if you're a laptop user, having one cable for all the goodies on your desk is cool. Though USB C gets most of the way there for that
<pie_> huh. nice.
<pie_> probably $$ but that soudns pretty rad
<elvishjerricco> like I said; it's the *idea* that I like :P
<samueldr> yeah, if thunderbolt worked, it would be nice
<samueldr> but since it's part of the type-c thing, in addition to being extremely finnicky...
<samueldr> and there's the whole thing where the implementation is backed by only one silicon implementation _by design_
<pie_> crash all the thing :D
<__monty__> samueldr: How? Licensing?
<elvishjerricco> Won't USB 4 basically roll thunderbolt into USB?
<pie_> its a real shame
<samueldr> [citation needed] somewhere months, possibly years in whitequark's feed
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: yes, but it's basically rolled-in the spec by saying "see thunderbolt 3 spec"
<samueldr> which actually is scary
<elvishjerricco> Yea
<elvishjerricco> Scary how?
<pie_> i saw this whitequark post <samueldr> elvishjerricco: yes, but it's basically rolled-in the spec by saying "see thunderbolt 3 spec"
<samueldr> since I think it means you might have usb 4 without thunderbolt 3 support
<pie_> how did they manage to make usb 3 so bad
<samueldr> but nothing to tell them apart, compared to how thunderbolt 3 differs lightly from usb 3 & knuckles featuring dante from devil may cry
<pie_> or thunderbolrt
<pie_> or whatever is even the difference
<pie_> well, besides "deliberately"
<samueldr> usb 3 isn't bad, it's the type-c connector that is
<supersandro2000> usb3 requires a chip in each cable and is way more complicated than 2
<samueldr> which is required for the latter usb 3 whatever name they are known as right now
<cole-h> Why? I really like not having to deal with the 4 dimensional USB-A connectors
<samueldr> supersandro2000: false, no chip required for usb 3
<samueldr> usb 3 predates type-c
<supersandro2000> no extra chip in the cable
<supersandro2000> was that C then?
abathur has quit [Quit: abathur]
<samueldr> not C outright, but some usages of
<supersandro2000> but you can still do USB 2.0 type c
<samueldr> C just how complex it is?
<supersandro2000> usb standard is just a mess
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: If you could design the perfect port, what would it be like?
<samueldr> obviously one-sided, like HDMI
<samueldr> since type-c sometimes can be mis-implemented and work differently depending on the orientation!!!!!
<samueldr> or, by design, SBU lanes are dependent on the orientation!!!!!!!!
<pie_> i think people usually say it should have just been ethernet or PCI <elvishjerricco> samueldr: If you could design the perfect port, what would it be like?
<samueldr> I say "obviously one-sided", as you can plug an HDMI cable in a port with your eyes closed relatively easily, compared to usb A
<supersandro2000> RJ4X jacks are worse
<supersandro2000> HDMI port is similar to DP
<samueldr> ethernet is the protocol on the wires, no?
<samueldr> you could have ethernet on something else than RJ45 Cat-n cables
<supersandro2000> wheren't you at ports?
<__monty__> I definitely don't agree about HDMI being a nice port.
<samueldr> pie_ talked about ethernet, I didn't :)
cole-h has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<samueldr> __monty__: how?
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: What features would your perfect port support? And would they be optional in implementations?
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: first, strong identification rules on everything
<supersandro2000> elvishjerricco: if it is optional half of the implementations won't do it to save money
<__monty__> samueldr: Just shitty implentations, tolerance-wise.
<samueldr> __monty__: ah, as with anything :) that's not HDMI
<samueldr> uh
<samueldr> I misread you
<samueldr> maybe?
<samueldr> did you mean: people make garbage cables/receptacles that don't really fit?
FRidh has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<samueldr> or s/people/manufacturers/
<__monty__> No, I'm talking about physical tolerance. I just haven't experienced it to the same level with USB-c. Like, not even close.
<__monty__> Maybe that's because cheap implementations opt for micro-usb rather than usb-c though.
<samueldr> possibly
<samueldr> but yeah, clear identification of what the devices and cables support
<__monty__> My No would've been a yes if I'd read your last statement before sending, btw.
<samueldr> and uh, even then, all cables should support everything unless permanently attached
<samueldr> and uh, even then, don't permanently attach a cable
<samueldr> __monty__: lol
<__monty__> Are there usb-c cables that support everything? Cause that seems like a viable solution to your woes?
<samueldr> probably not
<elvishjerricco> Do thunderbolt 3 cables function as usb 3 type c cables?
<elvishjerricco> For devices that don't have thunderbolt
<samueldr> I don't even know :)
<samueldr> that could be part of those cables that require identification
<samueldr> and even then, thunderbolt 3 cables are not equal
<samueldr> if you have two thunderbolt computers, and use the thunderbolt 3 cables for ethernet, you can test them
<samueldr> and get varying results
iqubic has left #nixos-chat ["ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50)"]
<energizer> i just ran nixos-infect without any extra config on a vps. it said 'installation successful' and logged me out of my ssh session. am i locked out now?
<energizer> nah i think it just restarted the network or something. all good
<energizer> if i luks-encrypt my partition on a vps, can i shrink it later?
<etu> It is possible, but it's not super convenient
<etu> I have shrunk luks partitions in the past
<samueldr> you have to handle knowing the size of what is inside the luks container
<etu> energizer: The steps you have to do is to pretty much... shrink filesystem, shrink cryptsetup volume, shrink partition.
<energizer> alrigth
<etu> Mic92: Thanks! That helped a lot :) It will for sure "ease" the transaction a bit :)
Cynthia has quit []
Cynthia has joined #nixos-chat
<pie_> i added an iptables rule and its listed in -S but it doesnt seem to have taken effect? am I missing something
<sphalerite> pie_: is it maybe coming after a rule that rejects everything?
<pie_> hm maybe but it looked like it ended up in a similar place as another allow rule
<pie_> i just worked around it by putting the service on an already open port :V
<pie_> i should learn to use thiss stuff at some point properly...
<elvishjerricco> Is the kernel aware of things like CPUs with multiple dies that have separate caches? It'd be most efficient to keep threads with access to the same memory on the same die, right?
<__monty__> As a rough first order heuristic that sounds sensible.
<gchristensen> I guess it'd depend on if the CPU has the m appear as multiple numa nodes?
<elvishjerricco> Hm... I've got a CPU with multiple zen1 dies, how do I check that?
<elvishjerricco> numactl says one node
<gchristensen> do the chiplets give traditional performance tiers?
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: I do not know what that question means :P
<gchristensen> well, like cores and threads always had L1/L2/L3/L4 caches which performed at different levels. does your CPU's caches perform at equivalent speeds?
<gchristensen> because it might
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: It's a 1950X Threadripper. So it's got 3(?) cache levels
ky0ko has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<elvishjerricco> and two die each with 8 cores
<elvishjerricco> Not sure which cores share which cache levels...
<gchristensen> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-5900x-zen-3-review look for "with access to an isolated 16MB slice of L3 cache" -- seems a bit interesting
ky0ko has joined #nixos-chat
<elvishjerricco> Yea ryzen 5 switched to a new 8 core die with L3 cache shared among all 8 I believe
<elvishjerricco> zen 2 by contrast had an 8 core die but the L3 was split into two different caches, each shared by 4 cores.
<gchristensen> I imagine it isn't aware
<elvishjerricco> Probably not. That'd be a nice feature though.
<gchristensen> you could use systemd.resource-control's AllowedCPUs to pin a service
<gchristensen> or CPUAffinity
<elvishjerricco> Yea but that's manual :P
<gchristensen> yea
aranea is now known as aurana
aurana is now known as aranea
Dotz0cat_ has joined #nixos-chat
Dotz0cat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
abathur has joined #nixos-chat
turlando has quit [Remote host closed the connection]