gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<drakonis> samueldr: check discussions
<samueldr> where?
<samueldr> (sent at the moment you linked)
<drakonis> an example
<samueldr> yeah, still as it was 250 days ago
<drakonis> it isnt enabled in nixpkgs
<samueldr> oh
<samueldr> you're mixing two things
<samueldr> the docs link is teams discussion
<samueldr> while your project discussion link is another feature
<drakonis> hmm
<drakonis> i see i see
<drakonis> github discussions
<drakonis> they're going hard on the lock-in
<samueldr> yeah, it's AFAIK still limited to those few projects
<samueldr> and yes, extremely vendor lock-in voice
<samueldr> looks like on github's discourse (ironically) you can ask for a repo to enable the feature
<drakonis> it reads a lot like a mix of discourse and stack overflow
<drakonis> its kind of bad, really.
<drakonis> i want to distance myself from github
<gchristensen> +1
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<samueldr> I was concerned it was going to be forced on all repos
<samueldr> still am
<gchristensen> +1
<colemickens> That would be quite a move.
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<__red__> You know that you've been successful when you install hydra for the first time
<__red__> set up nixos-unstable-small as a jobset
<__red__> and get 100% successful compilation of packages!
<__red__> (when hydra.nixos.org shows one failure)
<__red__> I'm guessing they're at different checked-out revs - I doubt my installation has anything particularly curious going on about it)
<samueldr> overachiever
<__red__> haha
<__red__> something :-) <3
<__red__> I laughed
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<__red__> I'm trying to find out where the various hashes live in the git tree to work out which checked out what
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<__red__> Now I just need to work out why all the vm tests are failing
<__red__> my guess is that it's already in a VM
<__red__> so ... hypervisor in hypervisor may not be great
<samueldr> depends which, kvm does allow nested
<__red__> it's inside vmware
<__red__> so... just modprobed kvm internally - see if that works
<samueldr> it's possible your hypervisor needs to be aware that you want nested virtualizatoin
<__red__> yup - thats it
<__red__> sec - rebooting
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<lovesegfault> Any CAD masters around?
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<srk> lovesegfault: which CAD? :)
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<lovesegfault> srk: Any one, I need to design a simple part but I suck
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<pie_> lovesegfault: you cooooould try the openscad channel, but also, what even is the part
<lovesegfault> to a panel with pre-existing M3 holes
<lovesegfault> I just want like a brace that grabs that middle cylinder and attaches to the panel holes
<srk> yeah, that's pretty easy job for openscad
<lovesegfault> I spent a few hours with openSCAD yesterday and it was a huge failure, lol
<lovesegfault> I got the DXF loaded
<lovesegfault> and the STL for that part loaded
<lovesegfault> so I could look at them and play with it
<lovesegfault> but then I got stuck AF
<srk> FreeCAD is pretty good but not that easy to use at first
<srk> stuck how?
<srk> paste the code :D
<lovesegfault> srk: I realized I don't know how to design a part
<lovesegfault> like, I could make a cube or a hole etc, but I don't know how to go about designing the part
<srk> hehe, csg is fun. imagine what pieces make the part and use union / difference
<srk> hull is also quite useful. than you "just" combine these with translates and rotates and build the part from some starting shape
<lovesegfault> hull?
<srk> yeah, that can make a convex hull of two or more object
<lovesegfault> Oh, interesting
<srk> like in case of that extruder bracket I would start with either cylinder with hole that holds it or the mounting plate
<srk> then split cylinder into two so you can disassemble it and attach mouting plate on one half, tweak until it looks good :D
<lovesegfault> I'll play with it today some more
<srk> you could probably make it solid piece and dissasemble extruder instead
<lovesegfault> if I fail I'll go on fiverr and find someone :P
<srk> there's editor if anyone wants to try :D
<srk> lovesegfault: you can prefix objects with # or % to make them visible like debug mode or transparent
<lovesegfault> O.o
<lovesegfault> that's pretty cool
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<srk> reminds me I also need a mount for bondtech lol
<lovesegfault> :D
<lovesegfault> I got the QR for my Voron V0
<srk> nice, I have the first gen, replaced its body recently
<lovesegfault> srk: the BMG?
<srk> prior bmg :D
<srk> stumbled on this mini printer today https://www.trideo3d.com/big-t
<gchristensen> weird to specify the cents down to three decimal places (don't correct this)
<lovesegfault> srk: Eh, I'm against Z leadscrews now :P
<__red__> 32G of RAM incoming for my hydra machine.
<__red__> Apparently 2G RAM is insufficient to deal with nixos-unstable-small - who knew? :-)
<gchristensen> nixpkgs is a hungry fella
<__red__> it certainly can be
<__red__> I wish I understood what... nm - that's a question for aarch64
<__red__> trying to break my habit of being social and business on all channels
<__red__> lol
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<gchristensen> colemickens: pie bird
<cole-h> gchristensen: What actually is that though
<cransom> releases steam from the filling through the crust so it doesn't explode
<cole-h> :o
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<gchristensen> not really necessary with the holes I cut
<gchristensen> but cute and I wanted to use it
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<cole-h> Anybody who's used pijul: how do I apply a change posted to the website?
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<srhb> cole-h: should be just pijul apply <thehash> right?
<LnL> last time I used pijul I ended up using a local checkout and git to extract a regular patch file for my changes
<LnL> but I had no idea what I was doing, so there's that :)
<srhb> They still didn't fix the ssh server. Sad.
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<__monty__> The nest ssh server?
<gchristensen> I'm really really really unsure why they went and implemented their own sshserver
<lovesegfault> what
<lovesegfault> they did what?!
<__monty__> RIIR
<__monty__> I'm not so opposed to this tbh. It's not like they're rolling their own crypto and diversity is supposed to be good for the ecosystem.
<eyJhb> srhb: cat tax - https://imgur.com/a/aJ72Kqu
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<srhb> yay
<srhb> __monty__: And yes, the nest ssh server.
<srhb> __monty__: It won't let me in. Sadface.
<gchristensen> key type?
<srhb> rsa4096
<srhb> But cole-h had issue with an ecdsa I think
<eyJhb> srhb: context is, she didn't get any of our dinner.
<srhb> eyJhb: Mean!
<gchristensen> hopefully they implement certificate-authority based auth
<eyJhb> I know right! Everything Fish belongs to queen Elsa!
<srhb> gchristensen: We all just need to be part of one big kerberos setup.
* srhb ducks
<gchristensen> srhb: yes!!
<samueldr> cerberus, the well-knonw three-headed watch-duck
<gchristensen> re costco the other day, on one hand: :( they decided to not mail my laptop?? on the other: :) they overnighted it for free
<samueldr> uh
<srhb> oh yay :)
<gchristensen> (it was supposed to arrived today)
<srhb> Okay not yay yet.
<srhb> I'm waiting for them sweet sweet ryzens to become available. If they don't before christmas I will cry...
<gchristensen> ehh
<gchristensen> srhb: some of the laptops I were looking at could only arrive for christmas, already ...
<srhb> wow.
<srhb> Okay, maybe time to give up hope.
<gchristensen> I *love* the nests' default avatar generator
<samueldr> srhb: integration problems with all the stuff that goes into a laptop
<srhb> I even ordered a long vacation and everything for building and playing with new PC :(
<__monty__> gchristensen: Examples?
<srhb> gchristensen: It is nice!
<srhb> omg you guessed my repo name.
<samueldr> srhb: so for only a CPU, I wouldn't think the issues with laptops availability is of concern
<gchristensen> haha
<srhb> samueldr: True. But they're going so fast, and none available yet. Sigh
<srhb> Mine looks scarily like my real-world signature.
<samueldr> yeah, that's the other side of the problem :)
<gchristensen> srhb: I'm just surprised your avatar is my signature.
<gchristensen> wait. ???
<srhb> :D
<gchristensen> (I promise I was typing that before you pressed enter. hand pain.)
<srhb> It's actually pretty much what my signature would be if I started it with a down-stroke instead of up ._.
<sphalerite> ugh, couldn't sway just not have bugs?
<gchristensen> it is actually very close to my signature too.
<srhb> :D
<srhb> Turns out people are not that imaginative.
<samueldr> sphalerite: it shouldn't crash
<srhb> Or maybe: Turns out this is how letters work.
<samueldr> (saved gchristensen some typing)
<__monty__> Those must be very short signatures.
<gchristensen> <3
<srhb> Literally two letters, yeah.
<gchristensen> brief scribble
<elvishjerricco> Apple managed to get thunderbolt/usb4 on their custom silicon macs. Neat.
<srhb> Is that what we call ARM now? :P
<samueldr> srhb: two letters, you sign サラ ? (sa ra)
<elvishjerricco> There's no way they're not bullshitting the numbers that they're boasting for performance gains though
<srhb> samueldr: Wow nice! No, but I should consider that.
<samueldr> it's M1 Apple Silly Con
<srhb> samueldr: (SB)
<elvishjerricco> 5x better graphics than last gen? No way
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: with the metal driver
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: I suppose
<sphalerite> samueldr: yeah I'd like that.
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: if flibitijibibo (ethan lee) is to be believed, Metal for the intel GPU is terrible
<__monty__> srhb: We distinguish signatures form a "paraaf" which is usually only two letters.
<elvishjerricco> I hope you can boot Linux on these things. They sound like pretty great bits of hardware
<srhb> __monty__: Oh, interesting!
<samueldr> following through with the DTK, elvishjerricco, impossible to boot something else
<srhb> I don't have a handwriting anymore, if I ever did. My full name would look like a four year old's signature.
<gchristensen> womp womp
<samueldr> at best, you can load your OS in relaxed mode to boot an older macOS or use unsigned kernel extensions (for development)
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: I thought someone found a secret command line way to enable booting other stuff
<elvishjerricco> On the dtk that is
<samueldr> plausible, though it didn't cross my bubble's reach if so
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: details? can't seem to conjure something that gives good results on search engines
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: I just saw some chatter on a Reddit thread like two months ago :P sorry
<cransom> re: 5x better graphics. i assume they find one benchmark that's extremely divergent and then use that number.
<samueldr> >> Meanwhile, Reduced security mode provides more flexibility by allowing users to disable System Integrity Protection and run any version of macOS, including those that are no longer signed by Apple.
<samueldr> that was where my knowledge stopped
<sphalerite> "no longer signed" I'm not sure that's how signatures work.
<samueldr> actually
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: Apple does it weird
<samueldr> iOS works that way
<elvishjerricco> They distribute new signatures for everyone who downloads the next OS
<samueldr> when you use DFU to load an OS from iTunes, you get a signature for your system × the os
<samueldr> so I guess something similar when you just boot it
<elvishjerricco> It's a clever way to prevent downgrade attacks
<sphalerite> uuuuh
<sphalerite> ok I'm confused
<sphalerite> but maybe I just need to go to bed.
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: I found a completely not credible commenter on macrumors saying you can boot unsigned OSes
<samueldr> I follow a mac fan on twitter that _would_ have shared it if it was credible and found :/
<samueldr> that doesn't mean anything, but yeah
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: Basically Apple doesn't distribute the OS on its own. When you download it, they also produce a signature the combination of the OS and your hardware's ID. This is the signature that secure boot verifies
<sphalerite> aaah ok
<samueldr> you can even do it through iTunes like an iPhone/iPad
<elvishjerricco> There's a reasonable chance that lack of Linux compatibility will be the sole deal breaker for these new macs for me
<samueldr> it's going to be a huge problem with the build farm design too
<elvishjerricco> I guess even if you CAN boot Linux on them, that GPU is gonna need a whole custom driver
<samueldr> yeah, one step at a time :)
<samueldr> as I said in previous discussions (about similar topic) I rather have the ability to boot into a useless OS due to lack of support than being completely blocked
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: Do you expect we'll be able to get Nix working on these machines?
<samueldr> I think there's been work already
<elvishjerricco> Orly?
<samueldr> I don't really know more about the status
<samueldr> but my guess is: yes, with the same caveats as secured big sur on x86_64
<cole-h> gchristensen: srhb: The only issue I have with SSH is that it doesn't like my GPG auth subkey; a normal, `ssh-keygen`'d ed25519 key works just fine.
<elvishjerricco> I'm surprised there's someone with a dtk that's into nix :P
<gchristensen> I'm saying goodbye to gpg in 2021, and don't know what you mean cole-h
<elvishjerricco> Man I wish I could give up gpg. It's so bad
<srhb> cole-h: I didn't try without gpg-agent, so yeah, probably same problem here.
<gchristensen> it turns out you can just say goodbye to it
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: But my password-store :(
<cole-h> ^
<samueldr> ROT13 did nothing wrong to me
<cole-h> lol
<gchristensen> maybe you could use `vault` instead
<srhb> Gpg is great. I only wish it didn't suck.
<gchristensen> or patch `pass` to use age instead
<srhb> If vault had a slight declarative setup I'd hate it less.
<gchristensen> I'd show you my declarative version but I'm not sure it is a good idea
<srhb> :P
<srhb> I'd love to see it if it becomes a good idea sometime. For now, bedtime though. o/
<gchristensen> eh what the heck
<elvishjerricco> Found a quote by Craig Federighi saying they intend for virtualization to be the route forward for alternate OSes on new macs
<gchristensen> https://github.com/stchris/passage it isn't even a bash script
<gchristensen> not nearly the same thing though
<samueldr> elvishjerricco: yeah, that's a concerning bit
<cole-h> gchristensen: How much of a resource hog is vault?
<cole-h> gchristensen: Another reason to lament the move away from pass: https://github.com/cole-h/passrs :(
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: He did mention hypervisors though
<samueldr> all built around their API I presumed
<elvishjerricco> So I guess we might get hypervisors?
<samueldr> though, what a bad precedent if only "golden chosen partners" get to ship full blown hypervisors :/
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<lovesegfault> Wait, they changed the name from pijul to anu
<lovesegfault> and then they changed it back because anu was offensive?
<lovesegfault> why is anu offensive?
<infinisil> lovesegfault: Not offensive, but it's close to anus
<infinisil> But it really doesn't matter much, it's just a name. It seems like the author just tried anu for a bit, then decided to not go for it after all
<energizer> it's even closer in spanish
<infinisil> I feel like too many people get hung up on the name, which kind of totally distracts from what pijul does
<energizer> they should use a better name
<energizer> if a lot of people in your target audience don't know how to pronounce the name, it's a bad name
<infinisil> It really doesn't matter that much
<infinisil> Nobody knows how to pronounce git either, yet here we are lol
<energizer> who doesnt know how to pronounce git
<infinisil> (well, people do know how to pronounce it, there's just two different ways)
<energizer> it's an english word with a standard pronunciation
<infinisil> It's not
<infinisil> There's different ways to pronounce it
<infinisil> Oh
<infinisil> Maybe I confused it with gif, for which there's two pronounciations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1AL2EMvVy0
<infinisil> But git is reasonably close, so whatever
<energizer> well no, one of them is a word with a standard pronunciation and one isnt
<infinisil> Ugh whatever
<energizer> :=_
<energizer> erm :-)
<infinisil> Ultimately, the name doesn't matter much for a research project
<infinisil> And pijul is that
<lovesegfault> I liked anu, it's a bird common in my home state :P
<colemickens> I like to not read context and assume that gchrist//ensen was calling me a pie bird as an insult.
* colemickens dropped into an unrelated bird discussion, oops
<samueldr> colemickens: I think you got colefused with cole-h
<aanderse> oh they aren't the same person...?
<colemickens> :(
<aanderse> :-D
<colemickens> actually, for people to be mixed up with, I have no complaints :)
<colemickens> maybe it's more unfortunate for him, ha
<aanderse> right?
<aanderse> lol, nah
<cole-h> :D
<cole-h> <3 colemickens
<{^_^}> colemickens's karma got increased to 43
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<colemickens> back atcha cole-h++
<{^_^}> cole-h's karma got increased to 109
<drakonis> when's the big adisbladis reveal?
<drakonis> what's this big cool thing that'll help push nix into mainstream :V?
<colemickens> drakonis: I really want to know too. FOMO feels are strong.
<drakonis> its been 5 days :V
<drakonis> is this valve time or nixos time :V?
<samueldr> I hate everything of that
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<pie_> my actually unfounded guess 8s an installer
<pie_> is
<samueldr> NOEL, NixOS Entreprise Linux
<samueldr> where you're running software from 10 years ago, today!
<danderson> "Your software is old, and we have the receipts to prove it!"
<samueldr> (no I don't really expect that)
<pie_> ohahaha
<ajs124> samueldr: I'll only buy it if it comes with a 2.6.x kernel
<samueldr> how else would you know it's stable?
<ajs124> reminds me of makefu's slides on why you should deploy Windows 2000. my favourite feature was "low malware compatibility".
<danderson> 2.6? Look at mr modern over there
<danderson> 2.4 or bust
<samueldr> 2.4 -> 2.6 is IIRC a pretty big deal, no?
<danderson> ... I remember when 2.4 was the exciting new hotness :(
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<gchristensen> NOEL? sounds good.
<danderson> 2.2 -> 2.4 was "you have iptables now", 2.4 -> 2.6 was "we kinda forgot to release for a long time, have ALL THE NEW THINGS"
<samueldr> oh, gchristensen, didn't even think about the snowflakes thematically matching
<samueldr> gchristensen: I can hire you to work full time on that, for exposure (to the cold)
<gchristensen> I'll package up NixOS 14.12 with a nice cover and bill $100k/yr for it
<pie_> NOEL turnon the lights
<danderson> wow, 2.4 was actually kind of a big deal: ISA Plug and Play, USB support, Bluetooth, LVM, RAID, ext3
<pie_> im sorry dave im afraid i cant do that
<danderson> then 2.6 was "all the things, and more". Filesystems, 32-bit PIDs, preemptible kernel, SELinux, ...
<ajs124> gchristensen: I have this snippet somewhere that pulls icedtea web from... 15.09, I think, because newer versions don't talk to the IPMI I need it for.
<ajs124> iDRAC actually, not IPMI
<danderson> ugh idrac
<danderson> SHUN
<danderson> I have the same problem, although mostly I solve it by not using that server any more
<ajs124> beats driving there for a few hours
<ajs124> it's sadly semi-critical infrastructure
<gchristensen> ughhh I used to have a winxp laptop just for idrac
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<ajs124> I once reverse engineered one of those a bit. I think that wasn't iDRAC but IBM IMM2 and that runs Linux 2.6, I think. Maybe 2.4? It had some very cool and good shell and php code in there.
<danderson> I remember the struggle to get the idrac KVM connection to work right. It's a thing I lost when I switched from Arch to NixOS.
<danderson> at one point I got annoyed enough that I started disassembling the java payload to try and reverse-engineer the protocol
<danderson> as in, it's easier to just implement a client from scratch than get the right combo of java nonsense
<ajs124> just checked my notes: nix-shell -I nixpkgs=https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/archive/release-15.09.tar.gz -p icedtea7_web
<danderson> but then I switched to all Supermicro servers. They have their quirks, but the KVM is all pure HTML5 that works.