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<gchristensen>
so I made a zpool the other day and I looked at the disk again and the disk is all zeros
<Ashy>
hopefully those *are* the zeros you were looking for...
<aleph->
Eeesh, hopefully
<gchristensen>
I didn't mind too much
<gchristensen>
maybe I zpool create'd my USB disk :).
<cole-h>
gchristensen: How does that happen (all zeroes)?
<gchristensen>
I assume operator error
<gchristensen>
but it was funny to notice ....
<cole-h>
"funny"
<gchristensen>
funny uh oh
<samueldr>
whee!
<samueldr>
that's the brand of the fans in the helios64 kit
<samueldr>
well, without the exclamation mark
<drakonis>
cole-h: isnt isnt it always?
<colemickens>
maybe the laughter is cover for the internal enumeration of whats been clobbered, while tapping out nix-env -iA photorec
* colemickens
has only heard about this of course
<abathur>
I feel like my experience with bikeshedding is something from the upside-down; I find myself looking for ways to intentionally chum the water just to get some feedback. Just me?
<samueldr>
I don't follow
<samueldr>
as a project maintainer or as a user?
<abathur>
as a decider? :)
<abathur>
contributor?
<energizer>
abathur: cunningham's law
<abathur>
I guess it's like, my impression: hey everyone, just going to paint this bikeshed barf-orange, yeah? Everyone: oh, no, let's argue for three weeks about what color. Reality: Everyone: <crickets>, me: Highlighter yellow? Everyone: <crickets>, Me: Like a christmas present?, Everyone: <crickets>
<samueldr>
abathur: maybe no one cares ;)
<samueldr>
or, more realistically
<samueldr>
they only care once the paint is applied
<abathur>
yes, that's the ultimate answer
<abathur>
energizer: ah, good point
<abathur>
need to approach this more like a hostage taker
<gchristensen>
+1
<abathur>
hey guys, I've updated the Nix installer to `curl http://roulette.sh | sh`
<abathur>
:P
<gchristensen>
shipit
<infinisil>
Hm what if we had an ipfs installation method
<infinisil>
So that the content hash is implicitly checked already
<infinisil>
curl ipfs://<hash> | sh
<samueldr>
curl supports ipfs?
<infinisil>
Oh, probably not :P
<infinisil>
I guess it would be something like `ipfs cat <hash> | sh`
<samueldr>
no one thinks about the ipfs dog :(
<infinisil>
Also, all the contents of the installer could be distributed with ipfs
<infinisil>
(instead of just a shallow installation script)
<infinisil>
I quote: "Do the Math they have been saying 200,000 cases 100,000 cases daily for half a year already. That is more than the USA population 2 times over. No one i know has gotten more than a flu sick!!!!"
<waleee-cl>
which country is the commenter talking about?
<samueldr>
the only country
<cole-h>
If I had to guess
<infinisil>
This whole comment section of that video is really depressing..
<drakonis>
youtube is ad for your haelth
<abathur>
ah, they've upgraded from "Do your homework!" to "Do the Math"
<abathur>
I suppose we might have seen the trouble coming if they'd sold the Internet like, "Hey you. Yeah, you! Is your toilet empty and boring? Don't you wish it was full and EXCITING!? How's this for a deal: for $50 a month I'll directly connect your toilet to every other toilet in the world.
<bqv>
,ping
<{^_^}>
pong
<bqv>
interesting. ok i'll ask here instead then
<bqv>
so, i have a twitch streamer i like to watch, and i also have someone on discord who i thought was him. now i heard the discord guy's voice, and it seems different to the streamer
<bqv>
and i would know, i've been listening to him for months. but a few people are trying to convince me it's him
<bqv>
so i've recorded the discord guy, and i can tell you the twitch streamer's name
<bqv>
have a listen to some of each, and tell me what you think
<infinisil>
Um, did he consent to you recording him..?
<bqv>
cause i might not be american, but i'm basically dead certain these are different people
<bqv>
infinisil: he's a twitch streamer, streaming live on discord
<abathur>
does he claim to be the same person, or not know that people are saying he's the person?
<bqv>
he does claim to be the same person
<bqv>
i pointed it out to him, several times, but he keeps trying to convince me it's him
<abathur>
tell him to mention <x> on twitch and let the fates sort it out?
<abathur>
I guess they could always jut be in cahoots, but anyways
<bqv>
i mean that's the thing, he's mentioned this on twitch, but i've not seen him on twitch while on discord, and while i've asked him to also go live on twitch to prove it, he's refused
<bqv>
this feels insane
<abathur>
heh heh
<bqv>
like, the voices are definitely not the same person
<bqv>
so unless i can get this guy to go on twitch and show me him talking, i have no reason to believe they're the same person
<bqv>
and yet i have two people who also know him, trying to convince me it's him :|
<abathur>
I think it's fine to say so if it's relevant
<abathur>
I have a fan on high to cool a laptop building, so I won't be able to hear it very well atm myself
<bqv>
naturally...
<abathur>
for some reason these Nix builds fail (EOF errors) like crazy if I don't keep it cool while it works
<abathur>
even if I do, it still does some
<abathur>
like 20 minutes wasted each time :(
<Ashy>
sounds interestingly dangerous, might not only be the cpu that's overheating
<Ashy>
could be the ssd too possibly
<abathur>
maybe
<cole-h>
FWIW, I'm also getting EOF's on the latest Nix commit...
<abathur>
I'm not sure if it's Nix or the system, there is at least one other issue open about these EOF errors on macOS
<cole-h>
On NixOS
<abathur>
I can't rule out the system since it's a 2013 macbook air, but I suspect it's some instability in Nix, or some interaction
<abathur>
but, nonetheless, keeping it cool (seems) to have some impact on the failure rate
<abathur>
I might just be superstitiously correlating something that isn't correlated
<abathur>
but, as long as it builds :)
<abathur>
FWIW I also think it's correlated with number of builds done since reboot
<abathur>
I haven't gotten it to do more than 4 in a boot, and the error rate feels pretty high after 2 builds
<eyJhb>
It seems quite close to some of the papers we are reading atm.
<hexa->
no, it's not research
<hexa->
it's rather experimentation and community networks
<eyJhb>
There was just a paper, on implementing a city wide wifi notwork in germany, which was actually implemented
<eyJhb>
As far as I remember
<hexa->
oh ok
<hexa->
can you reference it?
<eyJhb>
I will ask the other, if they can remember the name of it. I am just knee deep in getting the damn simulation to work! :(
<hexa->
ah
<hexa->
moritz warning
<eyJhb>
And it simply will not... Not even close. I really hoped that it would be fairly easy, and just work, but hell no..
<hexa->
or not
<__red__>
Since we're talking about efl
<__red__>
I did a penetration test of a certain brand of credit card terminals... and their entire embedded product was built using EFL
<__red__>
which was a nice surprise
<pie_>
whats efl
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<__red__>
elightenment foundation libraries
<__red__>
what cole-h posted about
<__red__>
oh - I should repeat what I said since they just rejoined
<__red__>
her cole-h
<__red__>
err Hey
<hexa->
__red__: when did he post about that? :D
<__red__>
cole-h: I did a penetration test of a certain brand of credit card terminals... and their entire embedded product was built using EFL
<__red__>
it was a link to a dailywtf thread
<__red__>
can't see it in my history anymore
<__red__>
anyways - brb - snagging breakfast
<sphalerite>
Anyone aware of a nice IMAP IDLE-capable alternative to mbsync?
<Mic92>
sphalerite: I don't think there is any, but only watchers that can run mbsync. I wrote at some point https://github.com/Mic92/imap-notify
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<Mic92>
It's a bit more battery saving than imap idle if you have a lot of inboxes
<Mic92>
*mailboxes
<Mic92>
as every folder requires a dedicated tcp connection
<sphalerite>
Mic92: hm ok, I'd hoped for something that wouldn't require authenticating again when new mail comes in. Handling of multiple folders isn't a problem because I don't use folders though :D
<Mic92>
sphalerite: sure. In that case there are many imap idle-based alternatives.
<sphalerite>
where? :D
<cole-h>
__red__: I don't remember linking to any dailywtf ("wtf" is that) pages. Maybe confused with cole\mickens ?
<sphalerite>
Mic92: oh, but I don't want to invoke mbsync on events, because that requires reauthenticating. I want the same program for idling/notifying and syncing, on the same connection
<sphalerite>
Mic92: didn't realise the difference between NOTIFY and IDLE, but yeah I want it both in one, the syncing and the push-reception
<Mic92>
sphalerite: that does not exists yet afaik. There were attempts to make it happen for offlineimap...
<sphalerite>
aww, ok
<Mic92>
sphalerite: if you have a dovecot you call your own, you can use dsync.
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<andi->
fetchmail + local imap server? :)
<andi->
unfortunately fetchmail doesn't speak maildir directly.. you could probalby just simulate the procmail thing with a simple shell script that puts mails locally into some folder.. that only gives you one way sync tho...
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<gchristensen>
non-americans: where are you, and is peanut-butter a thing?
<V>
Germany, yes
<hexa->
Germany, no :P
<V>
I have also located peanut butter in the netherlands and the uk
<hexa->
it exists, but it's not … a thing
<etu>
Sweden, it exists in most store, it's not really a thing people usually have at home (afaik), I don't think it's the same as you find in the states because I don't know why anyone would buy it.
<gchristensen>
here, peanut butter is peanuts ground in to a paste. sometimes with added sugar and salt.
<Taneb>
UK, yes, my dad likes it, I cannot stand it
<V>
I was about to say I know an austrian with it usually but they spent years in america, so
<joepie91>
gchristensen: Netherlands, very yes
<hexa->
gchristensen: so butter?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: typical peanut butter here has sugar and preservatives and other crap added to it, but some is just ground peanut paste
<gchristensen>
here too
<etu>
gchristensen: The one I've bought was labeled as "creamy" and it felt like I needed to drink half a litre of water after I tried even a little bit because it felt so dry.
<joepie91>
it's also one of the staples of breakfast bread (sandwich?) toppings
<joepie91>
as in, probably most households with children have it?
<V>
it's delicious with bacon
<V>
for whatever reason
<gchristensen>
really fun, thanks y'all :)
<joepie91>
gchristensen: interesting tidbit: it's actually called 'peanut cheese' here, literally translates, which is differently but equally wrong :P
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<joepie91>
translated*
<Taneb>
gchristensen: my Italian partner says you can get peanut butter there in big shops
<gchristensen>
for what it is worth, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is a lunch fallback choice for me
<cole-h>
gchristensen++
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 371
<V>
tasty
<__monty__>
Peanut butter yes, because of dutch influence which I assume originates in East-Indian colonies(?), PB&J no. Not a big fan of combining condiments. Jam and cheese is popular here. Used to know someone who did chocolate paste and salami (o.o).
<gchristensen>
:o
<joepie91>
PB and J are both popular here, but not together
<__monty__>
gchristensen: When you say jelly do you mean any jam/jelly or specifically the ones without bits of fruit? Those aren't very popular here either.
<gchristensen>
mine always have hunks of fruit in them
<abathur>
I can't keep peanut butter around :]
<abathur>
also, fluffernutters
<cransom>
i have a niece who would only eat nutella sandwiches for lunch. my mom would make lunches for her occasionally and would add ground turkey for some more calories. she noticed, but apparently didn't bother her.
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<sphalerite>
cransom: calories..? or protein?
<sphalerite>
cransom: because I think nutella isn't particularly short on calories :p
<__monty__>
Yeah, palm oil.
<cransom>
well, protein yes. nutella definitely has the calories.
<__red__>
So I'm curious about something
<__red__>
We all know the GUIX was very 'inspired' by Nix and NixOS
<__red__>
and apparently they now have images with the hurd kernel
<__red__>
I wonder if anyone has pondered attempting NixOS on the hurd kernel
<MichaelRaskin>
__red__: and, already, without Nix the specific DSL
* samueldr
should have read the leftover backlog before saying that
<MichaelRaskin>
Soooo. Apparently I have Debian and Nix on it and it can build or fetch from binary cache but not fetch sources (i.e. not run fixed-output network-enabled builds)
<MichaelRaskin>
(I even know why, but not sure what is the easiest way to reconfigure that)
<pie_>
" There should be an absolute minimum of possible responses to failure, so that all are exercised frequently. The most likely failure mode of any intended-reliable system is in its failure recovery mechanisms. In a good design, they are the same as are used to bring regular services up and down.
<MichaelRaskin>
samueldr: having working Debian on Android-first device is a very Planet Computer problem, true.
<samueldr>
if it's using a separate boot image, you could build your own with different kernel options enabled
<MichaelRaskin>
I seem to remember that postmarketOS is more or less Alpine
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<MichaelRaskin>
I think it does different boot images, but what people say about building that image sounds interesting …
<samueldr>
postmarketOS is not "more" alpine based, it _is_ based off of alpine :)
<samueldr>
oh, more or less
<samueldr>
what sounds interesting?
<gchristensen>
would anyone mind if I asked an off-topic question?
<samueldr>
uh?
<MichaelRaskin>
I saw people discussing on-Cosmo cosmo kernel rebuilds, and apparently one thing to resolve is that one build step that is a x86 binary-only tool
<etu>
It's an off-topic channel, so I hope it's about Nix to be off-topic from the channel ;)
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: yes
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: which reminds me: do the GPL dance with planet computer for them to do the dance with mediatek
<samueldr>
that tool is not specific to planet computers
<gchristensen>
philosophically... should all the programs in nixpkgs be able to run for nixos and not-nixos? or is our dance with wrappers and opengl which makes them nixos-only-unless-you-hack-it philosophically fine?
<samueldr>
gchristensen: good Q, and I believe Nixpkgs should be able to be free-standing for every applications, but reality is messy for the time being
<etu>
We have programs in nixpkgs that doesn't even run on Linux, because they are macOS x86 specific...
<gchristensen>
(other than fundamental platform/arch limitations)
<pie_>
if you split the monorepo things will have divergence and less-driveby-fixes issues
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: oh, just remembered what I wanted to say; that tool is built on top of dtc (iirc) or another of those GPL device-tree tools
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: with known hash of the android-variant used as a starting point
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: and built with debugging symbols
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: I wonder how close to a usable decomp we can get to see the diffs
<MichaelRaskin>
Hmm
<pie_>
samueldr: ironically i keep wanting to work on stuff like that but eh, noob.
<pie_>
as in, leveraging existing source code to decompile new stuff
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: also relevant, trawling on github for other instances of that binary, to see how many variants there exists
<MichaelRaskin>
In a sense, I am such a terminal junkie, that I am only annoyed by current Firefox Android being a failure at Firefox. Otherwise Android + chroot doesn't seem too bad…
<pie_>
havent used it yet but bindiff might get you a ways if you can get something compiled sufficiently similarly
<joepie91>
the package search is slow..
<pie_>
idk how much work that "sufficiently" needs to be doing in that sentence :/
<pie_>
though i dont actually get whats going on here
<MichaelRaskin>
And now I wonder whether the different Debian kernel _is_ what leaves the sound in the broken state…
<eyJhb>
samueldr: Any specific non-trivial one that comes to mind, besides /run/wrappers, etc.?
<samueldr>
locales aren't trivial
<eyJhb>
Always locales...
<samueldr>
I'm not even sure what the problem and solution is
<samueldr>
I just know it's sometimes breaking
<eyJhb>
samueldr: Unite the people and get rid of it all together
<eyJhb>
Might be the best solution
<samueldr>
eyJhb: parfait, alors tout en français?
<samueldr>
(so everything in french?)
<eyJhb>
oui.
<MichaelRaskin>
Bien sûr!
<eyJhb>
Fuck
<samueldr>
fourniquer*
<eyJhb>
I messed that up, sorry peps, guess we are swithing
<samueldr>
(and no, that's not the actual proper translation of that word in that context)
<eyJhb>
I have gotton French lessons atm. and one thing I can say for sure is, that I would fuck it up pretty bad. Still dunno poisson and poison
<eyJhb>
phoque !
<eyJhb>
When I say French lessons btw. I mean I af forcing a student to learn some Danish and she forces me to do some French... So not actually..
<eyJhb>
One of the "funny" things that most don't think of, is that there are sign languages for each language as well. Just saying.
<eyJhb>
Sorry to derail your off-off-topic gchristensen
<gchristensen>
no worries this is on topic
<samueldr>
not only that, but sign languages will vary for the same spoken language in different locales
<eyJhb>
But then again, spoken languages does that as well sometimes
<samueldr>
yes
<eyJhb>
But I actually hadn't thought about that. I can do very few signs sadly...
<eyJhb>
And I think none of them are the same in ASL
<averell>
learn the alphabet, you'll never be completely lost
<eyJhb>
I can call them a "lying cake eating fox"
<eyJhb>
But yeah, true. I think I can do most of the alphabet
<eyJhb>
I rarely see deaf people outside my family however
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<__monty__>
Hmm
<__monty__>
,
<{^_^}>
Special commands: find tell locate expand inclusive-language random-pr - Commands sorted by use count, page 0 (use ,<n> to view page <n>): help libraries channels ping paste escape'' -a escape" library overlay ifd pinning botsnack profiling unfree ask which-channel xml xy fancy-uninstall imperative wololo nixlang++ tofu cache pills pointers commands home-manager runtimedeps invite stateversion thesis exec matrixbridge smart-questions tias unstabl
<__monty__>
Do sign languages at least vary less? Given the smaller sizes of the communities I'd figure the "regions" where the same language is signed would be bigger?
<eyJhb>
__monty__: I think they have more common signs
<eyJhb>
But I know such things as mother/grandmother is not the same
<eyJhb>
But then again, that might be because mother -> mor, grandmother -> mormor in Danish
<samueldr>
__monty__: my gut feeling about that, from pretty much zero background research, is that like spoken language, they'll have ancestry with commonalities with other languages
<samueldr>
but it looks like that it doesn't map to how the spoken language was developed
<samueldr>
e.g. LSQ is a mash of ASL and LSF AFAIUI
<samueldr>
while Français (Québécois) is not a mash of american english and french french
<energizer>
lightdm is crashing a couple times a day. any ideas? i dont see any obvious messages in journalctl
<energizer>
the first sign is various apps saying "Connection lost to X server"
<energizer>
using DisplayLink
<samueldr>
lightdm's X log is not in the journal
<samueldr>
look under /var/log
<steveeJ>
is there a nixos channel for clustering specific topics?
<pie_>
we need something for special interest groups...
<pie_>
theres kind of some pages on the wiki i think
<pie_>
dunno if there are any about this specifically
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<Ashy>
how do i get the ibm-plex font to actually show up as an option in plasma?
<steveeJ>
pie_: do you know if there is any intention to move away from IRC? I like the threading-approach offered by other systems a lot so multiple discussions can go on in the same channel
<pie_>
blegh, i just ate way too much cereal by accident
<pie_>
poured too much in the bowl :/
<joepie91>
I'm going to complain very loudly if the NixOS community were to be moved to a proprietary platform
<samueldr>
same
<samueldr>
already not fan of the bridging slowly creeping up with that discord thing
<pie_>
steveeJ: i dont know, despite advantages of other stuff i still prefer the decentralized no-bullshit of irc though. its a lot more sustainable than another webthing
<joepie91>
(and considering that the only open platforms I know of have no, no, no and almost threading...)
<pie_>
ok just listen to joepie haha
<joepie91>
(namely, IRC, XMPP, SILC, and Matrix respectively)
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<pie_>
im generally an "i want featuressssss" guy, but there really is something to KISS+open source+whatever for core infra until there are solid alternatives
<pie_>
and even then you want to keep at least the open source
<pie_>
no lock-in, etc
<joepie91>
I'm certainly not opposed to features, I'm not even opposed to web-y things, just not at the cost of it being proprietary :P
<pie_>
right
<pie_>
im opposed to web.-y things because my firefox session is screwed enough already heh
<samueldr>
web-y is kind of a spectrum, you can build on web techs (e.g. http) without locking it to be a browser thing
<joepie91>
yeah, that's why I used the "-y" suffix :)
<samueldr>
though yeah, the more features there are, the less it's easy to implement everywhere
<joepie91>
I was hoping to sidestep the "what counts as web" discussion without saying anything overly simplified, heh
<pie_>
yeah maybe lets not get in that tarpit :D
<samueldr>
what's important here is that there is _some_ protocol that is decoupled from the interface
<joepie91>
yeah
<pie_>
and preferably an easy to implement + good protocol
<pie_>
big handwave on good but think good like haskell is good :p
<pie_>
anyone that does protocols, are there any particularly good RFCs?
<joepie91>
Matrix definitely still needs some work on the 'good protocol' part
<joepie91>
it's a good thing that the spec isn't an RFC (for staleness reasons) but some input from an experienced spec writer in the early stages probably wouldn't have gone amiss
<joepie91>
it has quite a lot of tech debt now
<pie_>
mm
<joepie91>
my Git server is almost migrated!
<joepie91>
soon it will be NixOSified
<joepie91>
have been dry-running the migration today, to figure out how to make it work..
<joepie91>
turns out that changing literally everything about a setup does not make for an easy migration :P
<joepie91>
Gogs -> Gitea, several years worth of versions, also several years of PostgreSQL versions, and to top it off Debian -> NixOS
<samueldr>
whew
<samueldr>
my cat fell off the couche when sleeping today, and she still looks mad
<samueldr>
off the couch*
<samueldr>
it wasn't one of those controlled cat falls
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<ashkitten>
hmph.. will esync/fsync ever be merged to vanilla wine? i can't find anything related to it...