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<pie_>
what does "manual" on a github issue notification mean? >.>
<pie_>
the issue doesnt look like it has any updates
<supersandro2000>
in which context?
<ajs124>
pie_: subscription? that means you subscribed to it yourself manually, instead of being subscribed because you watch the repo, I think.
<pie_>
oh
<pie_>
so how do i figure out what changed...
<colemickens>
"I would recommend NixOS to anyone who is interested in tweaking some parts of their desktop, but for the most part wants to set it and forget it."
<samueldr>
>> Having a hard dependency on an init system
<samueldr>
isn't the usual way that is said is that systemd is way more than an init system
<pie_>
colemickens: deeplink moar :p
<colemickens>
oh the webpage is decent though, I was bracing myself
<gchristensen>
I guess they're unhappy that systemd has the best dbus library according to mako's author
<supersandro2000>
I tried using launctl today
<colemickens>
pie_: I debated it! Felt like I was giving credit or something? heh
<colemickens>
lol
<V>
people don't understand what systemd is
<ajs124>
what's the middle click buffer copy&pasting story on wayland like, nowadays?
<supersandro2000>
you can't just get a status of something. First you need to get an ID and then you can get the status
<gchristensen>
all I know is it is MY ENEMY, V
<V>
ajs124: it works just fine
<supersandro2000>
so systemd is fine
<V>
gchristensen: o.o
* colemickens
remembers updating sway-adjacent derivations to exclude the new seat manager theyre building
<ajs124>
V: it does? maybe I should try it out, then.
<gchristensen>
-- Phate6660
<samueldr>
gchristensen: correction: anything the author of pulseaudio does is my enemy
<gchristensen>
lmao
<samueldr>
I *know* that, for a fact, it's the reasoning
<samueldr>
for many people
<V>
it's silly
<colemickens>
well anything that ever uses software written by said person. I've been told NixOS is similarly bad for using systemd
<samueldr>
there is a vendetta against anything "tainted by redhatpoettering"
<ajs124>
I got the chance to annoy lennart with stupid questions at a small conference a year or two ago. Was fun :D
<V>
taking hardline stances on anything is kind of silly, especially meaningless stuff like computers
<gchristensen>
+1
<colemickens>
Idk, I've never had these sorts of conversations with anyone who's managed systems at scales, and I feel like that says something, and informs how much I invest in said discussions.
<gchristensen>
+1
<supersandro2000>
V: you didn't say that
<V>
supersandro2000: say what?
<colemickens>
The irony being that a lot of anti-systemd people are similarly very anti-wayland but :| /me zips lips
<samueldr>
colemickens: I don't think that's irony
<ajs124>
would recommend attending his talks, he said arch linux is basically just user testing systemd stuff for fedora
<supersandro2000>
V: if computers are meaningless what are we doing all here?
<samueldr>
I think the irony is when anti-systemd people are pro-wayland
<gchristensen>
they're just not worth being upset about
<samueldr>
but maybe I'm missing something from the comparison of systemd/not-systemd and wayland/not-wayland and it can be spinned both ways
<V>
supersandro2000: like... sure, they're useful, but at the end of the day they're just pieces of glass we tricked into thinking
<colemickens>
samueldr: you picked up what I was getting at, fwiw.
<ajs124>
are there even any wayland alternatives? besides sticking with X11?
<supersandro2000>
V: they are made of the same material as glass but I am nit picking
<V>
yes you are
<samueldr>
ajs124: kind of, but nothing with as much weight behind
<samueldr>
ajs124: arcan fe is probably the better non-x11 alternative, and is totally a different beast
* colemickens
wants to try it
<samueldr>
I do too
<ajs124>
well, at least we got pipewire to replace pulseaudio now. which, I'm also not really planning on doing anytime soon, because my networked and in general kind of weird pulse setup has been working surprisingly fine for years.
<samueldr>
it has some concepts that puts it way ahead in usefulness compared to wayland _for my use case_
<samueldr>
wayland, last I checked (about 2 years ago) really doesn't have anything that plays well with someone that uses more than one computer at once
<colemickens>
samueldr: the blog post from the last few days about integrated all of the various "desktop" bits into a single protocol, seemed compelling
<samueldr>
yeah, colemickens, saw that the other day
<samueldr>
I think arcan fe has the network transparency bits we wished x11 had
<ajs124>
there's always xdmx, or whatever that's called
<samueldr>
planned (not done yet) is even dealing with video streams on the wire
<samueldr>
so that e.g. your application has a video playing, it's sent on the wire and decode locally instead of rasterized on the device it plays from
<samueldr>
and literally moving windows across computing devices [as long as the process can be reached through the network] is hella neat
<samueldr>
you could just pick a window from your pinephone and move it on your desktop to get your SMS app on your desktop
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<samueldr>
but yeah, all the weight behind everything else not-arcan makes it a hard sell
<andi->
this was for another party reading this that I'm in voice chat with ;)
<samueldr>
right
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<andi->
slow night today, everyone just watching elections or have EU nights really become slower in the Nix community?
<samueldr>
not sure, on my end headache might make me go to bed earlier
<samueldr>
but I am hacking away at some misc. private~ish project
<samueldr>
and checking in those results irregularly
<colemickens>
tease
<samueldr>
I was checking against `nix build`, and as a proof that I'm doing what I say I'm doing, I struggled to remember how to do the equivalent of `nix-build -A ...` with `nix build` lol
<samueldr>
(I'm staying away from `nix` and nix unstable)
<andi->
there are so many new ways! nix-build -f . foo and nix .#foo and probalby more flaky unstable (unreliable?) stuff ;)
<samueldr>
not that I dislike them, or anything like that, but more to keep us honest
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<__monty__>
Is it just me who thinks it's weird for a representative to know such numbers in such detail? Surely they have staff for this? I'd rather they'd be signing off on the right papers than be out memorising commodity prices somewhere.
<lovesegfault>
idk if your state's main commodities are corn & soy I hope you know the price of corn & soy
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<lovesegfault>
I think it'd be weird for the california rep to know that
<lovesegfault>
much like I think it'd be weird for the IA rep to know precise numbers on the impact of covid in tourism, whereas I'd hope the rep from hawaii knows those numbers
<lovesegfault>
Now, it's fine to be a little off, especially with commodities where the price fluctuates
<lovesegfault>
it's weird to be waaay off, like $6 instead of %10
<lovesegfault>
*$
<__monty__>
I guess I just think it's weird that a representative of an entire state would focus on such a narrow subject.
<lovesegfault>
I think my only disagreement is to say it's narrow
<lovesegfault>
as someone who grew on a farm: in agricultural regions people live and die by those numbers
<lovesegfault>
the break-even price of whatever agricultural commodity you grow is the difference between surviving or entering a debt-trap
<__monty__>
Yes, I can imagine that. But I'd expect something like a minister of agriculture to know these numbers and have them influence the advice they give the senator. I wouldn't expect the senator to know these numbers.
<lovesegfault>
I think that's just characteristic of how strongly US states are "separated"
<lovesegfault>
If I think of Brazil or Portugal you are absolutely right, it'd be weird
<lovesegfault>
but here it's just how things are
<__monty__>
But how can senators come to sensible agreements when one's focusing on agriculture and the other tourism even though both probably need at least some of both?
<lovesegfault>
weird franken-bills AIUI
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<__monty__>
Eh, I'll just stop. I hardly know anything about politics anyway.
<lovesegfault>
I will say, you _are_ onto something
<lovesegfault>
the system is dysfunctional
<__monty__>
Most, if not all, are. In the sense that the word "democracy" has lost its original meaning completely, so if being fuctional is being a democracy almost no system in the world can claim to be functional.
<lovesegfault>
my gripe with the US system isn't even that it's functionally non-performant, it's that the election mechanisms are literally insane
<lovesegfault>
if you try to explain to someone it sounds like some hyperbolic setup for a joke
<__monty__>
The average citizen hardly influences anything. And when they do it's based on a skewed view portrayed in their favorite media, judging the current shmoe that happens to be in power by the results of what politicians from years, sometimes decades, ago put into motion.
<lovesegfault>
I was telling my mom what happens if there's a tie and she couldn't stop laughing
<__monty__>
Does everything start over?
<lovesegfault>
Nope
<lovesegfault>
the house picks the president
<lovesegfault>
the senate picks the VP
<lovesegfault>
and the house votes as state-blocks
<lovesegfault>
the current VP breaks ties there
<lovesegfault>
so we could get Joe Biden & Mike Pence ticket
<lovesegfault>
lol
<__monty__>
Sounds like a healthy compromise.
<lovesegfault>
it'd be hilarious, I will admit that
<{^_^}>
systemd/systemd#17245 (by deliciouslytyped, 4 weeks ago, open): SysCallFilter/system-call-filter should support passing syscalls as numbers
<pie_>
If I'm partly responsible for prodding to get it done I at least want it done right
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<gchristensen>
tfw you're intentionally running your system to an empty battery hoping to fix a miscalculated %, and are rapidly approaching 0% while a backup is going
<gchristensen>
0% 00:00 remaining ...
<viric>
gchristensen: a backup that overwrites your previous backup? :)
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Do you need to talk? Self-harm is not the answer.
<gchristensen>
sometimes running to 0% is good for your system
<gchristensen>
recalibrates the battery's data
<viric>
it happens to me not rarely
<gchristensen>
for example, I've been at 0% for a few minutes now and I'm doing CPU intensive stuff
<gchristensen>
and IO intensive stuff
<__monty__>
Let's just chalk it up as a failed attempt at humor.
<viric>
Is systemd in nixos doing something clever during suspend when the battery goes very low? Like waking up and expecting something
<viric>
__monty__: good attempt, for me
* gchristensen
is still here
<sphalerite>
viric: systemd itself, no, I don't think so.
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<gchristensen>
what if we implemented floating point by implementing - between two attribute sets
<viric>
I had a computer with Mario64 running, suspended
<viric>
And after 3 days of forgetting it unplugged, I heard the Mario music for a minute.
<gchristensen>
it is possible for a timer to request a wakeup
<viric>
I didn't set it up
<gchristensen>
I dunno
<viric>
you say timer... but that's unrelated to time, right? It's on battery load threshold
<gchristensen>
no I meant timer
<gchristensen>
finally it died
<viric>
a timer implies forecasting when to wake up?
<viric>
something like wake up every 6h to check, and suspend again if fine?
<gchristensen>
I suppose so, it is just a regular systemd timer
<gchristensen>
but with WakeSystem=true
<viric>
But Nixos doesn't have that in by default, you say. Ok. Maybe the BIOS in this laptop has this behaviour
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<abathur>
gchristensen: iirc shebangs came up before and I asked if patchShebangs sufficed? This one's unwieldy, because comments aren't in the AST resholve works on; it'd need a copy/reimplementation of patchShebangs/similar. I'm unsure if theoretical non-Nix resholve users also need it? If not, the quickish fix is to add a setting to run or not-run patchShebangs to the Nix API.
<gchristensen>
ahh
<gchristensen>
the part I was surprised by is my patchShebangs wasn't working and resholved didn't yell at me
<abathur>
yes, I agree that it'd be nice if resholve yelled about a shebang that isn't in the inputs
<abathur>
or having some tool doing it, in any case
<abathur>
my hesitation is mostly about managing complexity; finding good external tools (or python 2.7 modules) that are simple for resholve to lean on should make it tractable... :)
<samueldr>
it is doing that thing where a long running connection can run fine (like IRC here)
<infinisil>
energizer: So you want to specify poetry-provided packages in the `packages` argument there?
<samueldr>
and it's not on my end, so I have to wait, without really any way to get external media
<infinisil>
samueldr: I have that occasionally with my ISP. Only takes a minute or so to resolve itself usually
<samueldr>
nah, it's a big issue at the ISP :)
<samueldr>
their twitter support is full of people reporting the same~ish thing
<infinisil>
energizer: If so, you can probably use `(poetry2nix.mkPoetryPackages { ... }).poetryPackages`, that should return a normal list of python packages
<samueldr>
I think most don't realise that e.g. IRC would work since they mostly must be using things that build upon the "HTTP" OSI layer
<samueldr>
and it's been that way for close to an hour
<infinisil>
That's not good!
<samueldr>
though I guess that I just had to gripe about that since it seems resolved (for now)
* colemickens
waves
* cole-h
waves back
<eyJhb>
I. Hate. Non-NixOS. Things.
<gchristensen>
yeah nixos sucks but have you seen the rest
<eyJhb>
I just spent 2-3 hours installing a older kernel in Debian... Because, no now you only have 5.9, which Virtuablox 5.2 does not support, which means that you need 6.x, which the software might/might not support!
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: Yes, the $suck^\infty$ basically
<supersandro2000>
I am using VirtualBox 6 since forever and it justworks
<eyJhb>
supersandro2000: But I am guessing you do not use it in a server setup where you have 400+ VMs :p
<eyJhb>
And you basically interact with it using a wrapper
<worldofpeace>
infinisil: I used to use kitty but it kept breaking. and it was a little too much customization for me, I'm very lazy. is it more stable now?
<infinisil>
The default config plus minor tweaks worked well for me, and I haven't encountered any breakages
<energizer>
unicode/emoji search is needed more generally than just terminal tho so i use rofi
<infinisil>
Are you saying you don't live in your terminal 😮
<eyJhb>
infinisil: Thanks! I will look at that. I think I looked at it before , but maybe something changed!
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<samueldr>
one way that can explain the power of Nix is that we can take something way too big to chew one, and somehow manage
<samueldr>
look at the size of the community actually managing the distro, compared to other big distros
<samueldr>
but this also, I think, explains why there's "issues" in e.g. documentation and tooling to make things more user-friendly: it's so big to chew already!
<samueldr>
does that make sense?
<pie_>
you cant cheat on writing docs eh? xo
<pie_>
*xp
<samueldr>
Nix is a force multiplier in many areas, but doesn't help where the rubber meets the road; user experience still needs as much work as it would otherwise
<samueldr>
and definitely, I mean that in the best of ways
<gchristensen>
maybe even requiring more work over there
<gchristensen>
a handsaw doesn't require as many instructions as a plasma cutter