<energizer>
i wish you could cash in the help that you give in one channel in exchange for getting help in another channel
<ldlework>
seriousl
<ldlework>
y
<ldlework>
why isn't audio solved in 2020
<bbigras>
pipewire is coming
<bbigras>
did you try it? we have it. The devs were quick to fix that one bug I had once.
<colemickens>
I think I have it enabled but not replacing pulseaudio yet
<ldlework>
I don't know anything about audio. I don't /want to know anything about audio/
* colemickens
shrugs
<ldlework>
I want to flip a switch in my nix config and have it work :/
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<ldlework>
How there is not a standard sink/source graph-editor-wire-up thing that all linux audio uses is beyond me.
<ldlework>
Right click, this is my default sink.
<ldlework>
Right click, this is my default source.
<ldlework>
This timeline sucks.
<lukegb>
Pulseaudio 14 at least fixes my major annoyance with default sinks
<lukegb>
Which is, well, changing the default didn't change where things were going
<ldlework>
PA isn't the answer since it doesn't have a "wire things up" metaphor.
<lukegb>
I'm sure this will break someone's workflow buuuut it makes my life easier
<lukegb>
ldlework: oh sure
<lukegb>
Clearly everything should be one big Gstreamer pipeline
<energizer>
JACK is the wire-things-up tool atm
<ldlework>
Yes, but it isn't standard and the integration in Nix is broke af.
<lukegb>
That way it can hang and segfault at random inopportune moments
<ldlework>
The need to integrate with PA is what breaks Jack.
<energizer>
i dont understand how the jack nixos module was supposed to work so i wrote my own that's probably terrible in a million ways...but it did work
<ldlework>
I assume my problem is something like, some buffer size, or flush frequency, in the pulseaudio sink is just totally inappropriate.
<ldlework>
So while it technically works, it's just produces garbage audio.
<ldlework>
But that's literally just a shot in the dark.
<ldlework>
We need to start a fund...
<ldlework>
energizer: did you implement PA integration?
<energizer>
ldlework: i dont think i did
<ldlework>
how do you use spotify and so many other things?
<energizer>
it was for a specific audio situation, not my daily driver
<energizer>
i think simpson has a jack config, not sure if it's public
<ldlework>
The NixOS config sets up a cloop and ploop alsa loop back devices
<ldlework>
here's simple_jack_client pipng tones into the pulseaudio sink
<ldlework>
and the source piping into my computer's speakers
<ldlework>
hit Discord's monitor, no audio
<ldlework>
like what the actual hell
<ldlework>
How about we take Jack support out if it doesn't work?
<ldlework>
Or rather, the PA/Alsa support
<ldlework>
if I pipe simple_jack_client directly into the speakers, i hear the tones
<ldlework>
If it actually does work, then it isn't properly documented as while I'm not the smartest, I have been touching computers for over 20 years
<ldlework>
Audacity doesn't even get any signal. Not even the BOOOP BOOOP BOOOP from the volume going up and down even though it's a constant tone.
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<bbigras>
"PipeWire is a project that aims to greatly improve handling of audio and video under Linux.
<bbigras>
It provides a low-latency, graph based processing engine on top of audio and video devices that can be used to support the use cases currently handled by both pulseaudio and JACK. "
<bbigras>
sounds like the holy grail of audio
<bbigras>
no pun intended
<bbigras>
pipewire has a pulseaudio compatibility thing but they changed it. I think we need to wait for our module to support it.
<lovesegfault>
Pipewire is also, AIUI, promising to fix the screencasting mess that currently exists
<lovesegfault>
although that's such a hefty promise that I don't know what will be of it
<ashkitten>
bbigras: pulseaudio compatibility works great since #105362
<ashkitten>
it now provides a pipewire-pulse systemd service
<bbigras>
oh yeah pipewire helps with screencasting on wayland. No idea how an audio thing does that.
<ashkitten>
and i've been using it as my daily driver for a while
<ashkitten>
it's not just an audio thing
<ashkitten>
it handles video too
<bbigras>
ashkitten: "Upstream has deprecated the libpulseaudio.so shim and provides a systemd service to load pulse-bridge now". are you using the bridge yet? I'm not sure if we are still waiting for the module to support it.
<ashkitten>
it can also transport dmabuf fds for copyless screencasting
<ashkitten>
bbigras: we are as of the pr i linked
<ashkitten>
it's probably not in nixos-unstable quite yet
<ashkitten>
since it was merged 9 hours ago
<bbigras>
ashkitten: oh sorry I thought it was just a version bump. oh sweet. I'm going to use it as my daily driver asap too. thanks
<energizer>
is anybody using only pipewire?
<ashkitten>
me
<energizer>
already
<energizer>
not jack and not pulseaudio?
<bbigras>
does program work without the pulseaudio bridge? do you need alsa or jack?
<ashkitten>
yes
<energizer>
ldlework: ^
<ldlework>
it's not just one program, i use a lot of programs
<ashkitten>
bbigras: the pipewire module has also, jack, and pulse options that can be separately enabled
<ldlework>
ashkitten: this is a thing in nixos already?
<ashkitten>
bbigras: also note that the alsa support has a support32Bit option
<ashkitten>
ldlework: it's been merged into master but 0.3.17 is not in nixos-unstable yet
<bbigras>
ashkitten: yeah I saw the alsa and jack support but I mean, if I enable pipewire and disable pulseaudio and jack support, will sound work in every program?
<bbigras>
I don't mind enabling them I'm just curious.
<ashkitten>
if you disable pulseaudio and jack, then programs that use those apis will not work
<bbigras>
that's what I thought. and I expect everything to work if I enable alsa and pulseaudio support.
<ashkitten>
yeah
<bbigras>
sweet
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: is there a pavucontrol for pipewire
<ashkitten>
if you do enable jack support you will be able to use programs like qjackctl to connect nodes
<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: it's called pavucontrol
<ashkitten>
:)
<lovesegfault>
O.o
<ashkitten>
there are no gui programs i'm aware of that currently support pipewire itself natively
<ashkitten>
but alsa, pulse, and jack control programs should all work
<energizer>
ashkitten: can you do bluetooth voice calls, like windows/macos/ios/android can?
<ashkitten>
here's a screenshot of qjackctl showing my microphone and firefox both plugged into discord's voice input
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: pretty darn dope
<ashkitten>
energizer: supposedly pipewire's plan is to have significantly better bluetooth support than pulseaudio, but i don't know anything about that since i don't use bluetooth
<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: in the screenshot both firefox and discord think they're talking to pulseaudio, and they're being displayed in a jack patchbay
<ashkitten>
for the record, i've not gotten pipewire screen sharing working yet (but it's not that important to me)
<lovesegfault>
That's what I'm most excited about
<ashkitten>
it depends on xdg-desktop-portal being configured correctly plus some other stuff
<lovesegfault>
I never got xdg-desktop-portal working well in sway
<lovesegfault>
All I want is zoom screensharing to work
<ashkitten>
it should work fairly flawlessly if you use gnome-shell, i hear
<lovesegfault>
It works okay under gnome, yeah
<lovesegfault>
but for some reason gnome is _really_ slow for me
<lovesegfault>
like, moving the mouse is slow
<ashkitten>
gnome's xdg desktop portal is way more complete than the other implementations
<ashkitten>
xdg-desktop-portal-wlr might get output selection soon, if progress is actually made on that pr
<ashkitten>
but there's no support for capturing individual windows in wlroots yet
<ashkitten>
(there is in gnome)
<ashkitten>
xdg-desktop-portal-wlr also doesn't support dmabuf yet, so capture might be somewhat laggy as it has to copy buffers instead of passing around gpu memory handles
<ashkitten>
no idea if gnome supports that
<pie_>
ashkitten: so is this jack but better and not limited to audio?
<ashkitten>
sorta
<energizer>
pie_: pipewire is intended as a replacement for jack+pulseaudio
<colemickens>
twilio locked me out of my account again and told me they'd have to escalate to engineering to unlock <email that is not my email> account. holy wtf.
<abathur>
lolwut
<colemickens>
if I wasn't already questioning some security competency based on the initial lockout....
<abathur>
hehe
<colemickens>
I just spammed back "DO NOT GRANT ME ACCESS TO THAT" as fast as I saw it.
<abathur>
if it was a real human, I guess they may have still had something from the previous ticket on their clipboard
<ashkitten>
they're social engineering themselves!
<abathur>
turing-complete support
<V>
colemickens: my goodness
<samueldr>
whew
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<siraben>
wowza
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<samueldr>
>> The protocol is sent over a UNIX domain stream socket, where the endpoint usually is named wayland-0 (although it can be changed via WAYLAND_DISPLAY in the environment).
<ashkitten>
samueldr: what are you trying to do, anyway?
<samueldr>
use a computer
<ashkitten>
i'm trying to be helpful
<samueldr>
I know
<samueldr>
there's no exact end-goal other than being able to use that specific computer
<samueldr>
where mpv through X11 is terrible
<samueldr>
(and other X11 use)
<ashkitten>
why would mpv through x11 through wayland be any better?
<samueldr>
at least I can confirm what was said online, it *does* show that the intel X11 driver has terrible issues that aren't seen in wayland with DRM
<samueldr>
I want to allow only select applications (here mpv) to break-out
<samueldr>
so in this instance it would be mpv on wayland
<ashkitten>
"break-out"
<samueldr>
in this particular situation, that's it
<ashkitten>
do you know that's a thing that's possible?
<samueldr>
cage -> xwayland -> xephyr -> awesome
<samueldr>
yes
<samueldr>
when I start WAYLAND_DISPLAY=:0 mpv [...] it works, obviously mpv is not managed by awesome
<samueldr>
it's really close to being a workable workaround
<ashkitten>
isn't way-cooler a clone of awesome for wayland
<samueldr>
isn't it abandoned?
<ashkitten>
idk
<samueldr>
can't quickly find the announcement, but it was, their repo is currently archived
<ashkitten>
oh
<samueldr>
and it's not only the WM that's part of my workflow
<samueldr>
so, laptop[wifi] <-> nas[wired] is slow, right?
<samueldr>
and was it laptop[wifi] <-> nas[wifi] that was faster?
<samueldr>
can you wire-up your laptop?
<lovesegfault>
samueldr: laptop[wifi] <-> router <-> nas[2.5gbps eth] is slow
<samueldr>
can you test another device on the same wi-fi network to the nas?
<lovesegfault>
laptop[wifi] <-> router <-> tailscale <-> router <-> nas[2.5gps eth] is fast
<samueldr>
yeah, I skipped over tailscale
<lovesegfault>
i.e. going over the internet is faster than doing a simple lan transfer
<samueldr>
I wonder if somehow your network situation would make connections between the wireless and wired stuff... break
<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: i have an idea. load the connection by doing `ssh server cat /dev/urandom > /dev/null`, and then ping the server to check latency
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: one second, taking iperf over tailscale
<lovesegfault>
I appreciate everyone trying to help :D
<lovesegfault>
it's been annoying me for weeks now
<eyJhb>
I have lived with a broken gigabit switch for 2-3 years... The port I used was only 100 Mbit/s. I just thought it was normal, and that the local server was slow. I saw the light afterwards!
<eyJhb>
I feel your pain lovesegfault
<eyJhb>
I will be stalking you in #networking as well ;)
<ashkitten>
me too... i have an interest now :p
<lovesegfault>
:D
<lovesegfault>
just asked the !
<lovesegfault>
*Q
<eyJhb>
lovesegfault: Does tailscale have some cache?
<eyJhb>
Someplace?
<lovesegfault>
not AFAIK
<eyJhb>
:(
<energizer>
i dont think you've shown that it's tailscale related
<lovesegfault>
regardless, if I just use normal internet it works the same
<eyJhb>
If you don't get any answers, then I guess they are like us "shit fucked yo'" :D
<lovesegfault>
:D
<lovesegfault>
I asked the SREs at work who told me to turn it off and on again
<energizer>
lol not a good strategy
<eyJhb>
Site Reliability Engineer?
* lovesegfault
nods
<eyJhb>
Do you maybe run a lot of Windows at work?
<eyJhb>
:p
<lovesegfault>
No windows at all
<eyJhb>
Poor Linux servers :(
<patagonicus>
Oh. Was wondering why the wayland/ozone stuff didn't work for me in Chrome, even though it should be included by default. But Nixpkgs is disabling it by default, at least for Chromium. Let's see how long it takes to build on my laptop.
<lovesegfault>
patagonicus: it will take a long time :P
<lovesegfault>
and you better have a lot of ram
<patagonicus>
lovesegfault: Pff, I'm used to building whole NixOS on armv7 machines, can't be that much worse.
<lovesegfault>
:D
<patagonicus>
100GB of disk space? Nice. I wonder if that also applies to the NixOS build, because then I'll have to resize my /
<eyJhb>
How much ram you got patagonicus ? :p
<patagonicus>
16GB + 10GB swap currently. The Chromium docs say that it should work with 16.
<eyJhb>
_should_ :D
<eyJhb>
I could not build FF on my computer with 16 GB of ram. which was weird
<patagonicus>
Ah, no, 8GB is minimum.
<eyJhb>
Still mad about ITS downsizing my instance, so now we can only run 4 tests, instead of 32...
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<eyJhb>
Tailscale seems nice, I just dislike .. having a account etc.
<patagonicus>
Hmm, no, reading more in the nixpkgs, while useOzone defaults to false in common.nix, for chromium it seems to be changed to true in default.nix. Let me check google-chrome, since I didn't use chromium.
<patagonicus>
That has a wayland dependency that's not optional, as far as I can tell. So maybe it doesn't work for some other reason.
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<patagonicus>
Oh, huh, it just seems to work in Chromium, but not in google-chrome. Weird.
<eyJhb>
IS it just me, or wasn't .xpi files suppose to work for Chrome and Firefox?
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<ldlework>
heh the little wrapper idea worked like a charm
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<jtojnar>
ldlework: #pulseaudio devs are mostly on European time
<lunc>
Definition of debugging - Being the detective in a crime movie where you are also the murderer
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<eyJhb>
lovesegfault: Not really helpful in there I guess :(
<thibm>
hey eyJhb, how the oneplus are doing? Sorry, I was afk last time
<eyJhb>
They are all fine, the seller said that he thought that maybe I could get at least two working, so my hopes weren't that high. But I just needed the cover anyways.. BUT!
<eyJhb>
The first three worked fine, the last one had a display that did not show anything. But I reseated the cables, and then it worked. I just need to change the battery in it now, then they all work :D
<lunc>
i have a story
<eyJhb>
But it is amazing having 1. A complete antenna 2. A power button that works. Mine broke after 6+ years, like a week ago
<lunc>
there was a guy contributing to the webkit open source project from the UK
<lunc>
we decided to hire him and bring him to the US to work on webkit full time
<lunc>
he was just doing it in his own time for fun, mainly working on the JS engine
<lunc>
not long after, google announced chrome, and they asked us if we'd like to replace the JS engine in webkit with a new engine that they had developed
<thibm>
eyJhb: wow you get lucky, cool
<lunc>
theirs was a bytecode interpreter that was much faster, maybe 30-40% faster, than the interpreter we had in webkit, which was just an abstract syntax tree interpreter
<lunc>
but it would've required significant changes to webkit, because the JS engine has a strong relationship with the html/css engine through the DOM
<lunc>
so our new engineer, who'd only worked for us for a week or two at this point, went home over the weekend, and he wrote a new JS bytecode interpreter for webkit
<lunc>
over the course of 3 days
<lunc>
and it beat google's new interpreter by maybe 10% our the js benchmarks people were using at the time
<lunc>
on*
<lunc>
and didn't require significant changes to the memory model for the DOM
<eyJhb>
thibm: yeah! So I am not sure what I should do with the rest. I'm considering selling 1-2 to even out the cost. But the real issue as I discussed with samueldr yesterday is, that in the future we will mainly use arm64, which OPO is not...
<lunc>
so we switched to it instead, and that started the JS wars of the late 2000s / early 2010s
<ashkitten>
my ps5 controller is having lag issues over bluetooth :(
<lunc>
chrome added a bytecode interpreter, then we did, the mozilla did. then chrome added a jit, then we did, then mozilla did, etc etc
<ashkitten>
maybe i need a better bluetooth adapter
<thibm>
eyJhb: yeah I was frustrated that it's not 64 bits too
<eyJhb>
I feel like joepie91 could wage in on this lunc :p
<eyJhb>
Where the hell do you work now lunc ?
<lunc>
i currently dont work heh
<lunc>
oh some of my sentence got deleted. i'm half asleep. "competition made all the difference. if they just used google's V8 then JS wouldn't be nearly as fast as it is today"
<eyJhb>
thibm: Yeah, it really is. I hoped to rock this phone till it really dies, or becomes really obsolete.. Annoying that it is just 32bit/64bit, as it has everything you need. Like, NFC, BT, 5GHz WiFi, etc... I really do not need much else, except 5G mobile networking
<eyJhb>
lunc: retired? :p (I am just spitballing here)
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: My gen 1 google pixel is starting to show it's age... I really don't want to get a new phone..
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: How is it showing?
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: It's often dying with 50% battery left
<lunc>
hehe kinda
<adisbladis>
And I hate this phone, so I don't want to invest money into changing the battery either
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: new battery ?
<eyJhb>
Ohh..
<eyJhb>
lunc: lottery? :p
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: If you hate it, then a new phone might be in place. OnePlus Nord N10? :D
<lovesegfault>
eyJhb: Yeah :(
<lovesegfault>
I'm going to ask flokli later
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: I'm gonna hate that too :P
<lovesegfault>
he might know
<flokli>
all this asking flokli
<lovesegfault>
:D
<lovesegfault>
You have a minute?
<flokli>
I can't recommend new phones, if that's the question
<lovesegfault>
it's much worse than that
<flokli>
uh oh.
<adisbladis>
flokli: No one can
<flokli>
yes :-)
<adisbladis>
Because they all suck
<flokli>
I can't carry around my workstation to pick up a call unfortunately.
<lovesegfault>
flokli: Two machines, A and B. A is a laptop with wifi, B is a NAS with 1.5Gbps eth. I have A[wifi] <-> router <-> B[2.5G] and it's _SLOW_
<lovesegfault>
if I use a VPN and jump through a host outside my LAN it's fast (as fast as my internet)
<lovesegfault>
so, doing A <-> R <-> Internet <-> R <-> B is faster than the local only thing
<lovesegfault>
running iperf3 shows loads of retransmissions, which we suspect might be the issue
<flokli>
wait. it's A <---wifi----> R <----2.5Gethernet----> B
<lovesegfault>
but we don't know what's causing it
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: Damn... Why forced? Did Tweag do this to you?? You can tell if they did
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: No, many employers ago :P
<adisbladis>
The dev environment was only officially supported on windows or macos
<eyJhb>
Well, I heard many and thought, that is at least two
<adisbladis>
(it was a modified jetbrains)
<adisbladis>
I managed to make a franken-IDE by splicing some components from jetbrains on linux
<adisbladis>
So while it was not supported, I could dev on linux
<eyJhb>
That must have been nice
<eyJhb>
That you at least could. With office365 and shit and stuff, it is impossible...
<adisbladis>
It's called that because you turn 365 degrees and walk away
<eyJhb>
Like just sharepoint sites might not work, because the policy on the PC is not "correct"
<eyJhb>
But... LEGO adisbladis :(
<gchristensen>
adisbladis: I'm playing with a Go project and I think I must be missing something, because the author of the library couldn't be this dense. can you help point out the silly thing I'm missing?
<joepie91>
eyJhb: that comic, lol
<adisbladis>
gchristensen: In ~45 mins OK?
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: What what! Go! Can I see?
<gchristensen>
for sure (I might be getting a croissant then, but if so, whenever after that would be great)
<eyJhb>
joepie91: But it is true
<joepie91>
yes :D
<srk>
57
<srk>
oop
<supersandro2000>
eyJhb: I am being charged for using Linux tools
<supersandro2000>
If I find a bug I fix it and upstream it
<supersandro2000>
I pay more than enough
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<adisbladis>
gchristensen: I got stuck, but I'm available now
<gchristensen>
adisbladis: given this "example" https://github.com/hanwen/go-fuse/blob/master/example/loopback/main.go can I implement my own "loopback" fuse filesystem behavior without duplicating a significant portion of the go-fuse/fs package? I tried copying all the stuff out of fs/fuse.go and then updating references, but ultimately got stuck on loopbackFile being un-exported.
<bbigras>
I'm going to trigger another build to see if the bot avatar is the same with another email address
<eyJhb>
ffs, I checked my email yesterday. I have 33 new ones, and none for me personally
<infinisil>
eyJhb: I have a mail sieve that puts all non-personal mails into a separate folder :)
<infinisil>
Very useful
<infinisil>
Well I use contact@<domain> for personal emails, and <serviceName>@<domain> for services
<infinisil>
And the sieve puts those into different folders
<eyJhb>
infinisil: I should do that...
<eyJhb>
And there is the random phishing internal testing email as usual
<eyJhb>
And don't you dare be curious and click on it, they will murder you
<thibm>
At my job the phishing was obvious. I opened the link because I was curious and then entered fake credentials. It said I would have been screwed anyway :p
<bbigras>
haha
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<red[evilred]>
I've done the phishing testing for an org before
<red[evilred]>
got them from > 50% click rate to zero in 6 months
<red[evilred]>
Yes - that sounds impossible - but I had "help"
<red[evilred]>
because teaching the end user is only a very small part of it, it's the thing you have no control over as new people are hired etc
<red[evilred]>
and when people test they focus on that
<red[evilred]>
The trick is to accept taht someone will click - and instead train your users to do rapid notification
<red[evilred]>
then when you have people doing instant notification on receipt - you can block any IoCs for the badness and scrub all the otehrs from everyone else's mailboxes
<red[evilred]>
once you've done that - you can get to the point where you can scrub the phishing from your peeps mailboxes before the first 'inattentive' user has the opportunity to click
<supersandro2000>
eyJhb: that is bash for eval to new line
<eyJhb>
supersandro2000: it is still evil filenames :D
<JJJollyjim>
phishing testing is one of my concerns about getting into infosec professionally tbh
<red[evilred]>
Why does it make you concerned?
<JJJollyjim>
because it seems inevitable that someone's gonna get fired over clicking something anyone would have clicked on on a bad day
<supersandro2000>
joepie91: reminds me of the super conservative anti gay marriage EU Parlament guy which was caught on 25 person gay gang bang party
<joepie91>
supersandro2000: well *that* one wasn't a surprise at all
<joepie91>
"repressed homosexual" is a meme for a reason :P
<joepie91>
there's a long, long list of incidents like this
<red[evilred]>
Ah - I refuse to work for a company that will do that\
<red[evilred]>
it's a question I ask when I interview for a job
<red[evilred]>
I refuse to work in a "blame" environment
<red[evilred]>
because if someone clicks - you want them to contact you and tell you everything as quickly as possible
<red[evilred]>
if they have fear of being fired - that makes your life in DFIR an order of magnitude harder
<red[evilred]>
THAT
<JJJollyjim>
oh yeah, but i'm planning to join a consultancy, and idk if they can really stop shitty clients doing that with the results
<red[evilred]>
plus - if they have a user that's capable of ransoming all your data with an errant click - I would suggest that they have put zero thought into proper security boundaries.
<JJJollyjim>
yep
<red[evilred]>
and are vulnerable to insider attacks
<red[evilred]>
and yes - that's another reason I don't work for a consultancy
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<viric>
Hello nixosers
<bbigras>
o/
<viric>
Today I dove into the world of CI software...
<viric>
I'd say all is an enormous pile of shit
<viric>
emphasis on enormous.
<red[evilred]>
that's because everyone insists on reinventing make
<red[evilred]>
(badly)
<red[evilred]>
:-)
<viric>
Isn't there anything simple that has a coordinating server, and agents playing the checkout, build, run tests, store results?
* joepie91
looks at challen name
<joepie91>
channel*
<joepie91>
viric: Hydra? :P
<viric>
Hydra is very tuned to nix
<JJJollyjim>
yeah i was about to say lol joepie
<bbigras>
is jenkins "simple"?
<JJJollyjim>
nix is definitely just make
<red[evilred]>
"no"
<viric>
jenkins sounds terrible
<viric>
I'd go with some scripts I think. Even without web interface, if results are just fine in a file tree.
<hexa->
guess I'll restore last nights firefox profile
<hexa->
hah, last backup is 3h old
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<gchristensen>
adisbladis: I want to take the loopback example and change its behavior
<Taneb>
Can anyone recommend a VPS provider that supports NixOS?
<eyJhb>
hexa-: Guessing a lot of profiles will die because of that...
<gchristensen>
adisbladis: but their "example" isn't just an example I can copy-paste and toy with (which is the traditional thing for examples to be I thought)
<hexa->
eyJhb: this will be a lection in having proper backups
<gchristensen>
so I'm left wondering if maybe I just don't understand Go enough to know that I can in fact take the loopback example and mess with it.... or they spoiled the example by Engineering It To Death
<bbigras>
Taneb: I'm using digital ocean for a cheap vps. They don't support nixos, but nixos supports DO.
<eyJhb>
hexa-: welllll! It could have been avoided :p
<eyJhb>
But yeah
<eyJhb>
Luckily I don't use FF! Or I do, but I do not have it persistent... So..
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<siraben>
colemickens: even with `hardware.cpu.intel.updateMicrocode = true;` will turning off spectre mitigations still take effect?
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<cole-h>
hexa-: Oh yeowch. Guess it's a good thing I haven't bumped unstable recently...
<cole-h>
Well, I do have snashots every 5 minutes so I wouldn't be hurt too badly...
<siraben>
ZFS?
<cole-h>
Yep
<siraben>
Heh nice, so you don't need to use other problems to back up?
<siraben>
I'm considering switching to ZFS after finals are over
<cole-h>
I don't, no.
<joepie91>
"other problems" :)
<bbigras>
isn't snapshots not backups?
<siraben>
Oops, Freudian slip
<joepie91>
hehehe
<siraben>
s/problems/programs
<bbigras>
I would use snapshots and a backup
<cole-h>
bbigras: The way I use them, they're the same.
<siraben>
snapshots are filesystem level, right?
<cole-h>
I send my snapshots to an external disk every once in a while
<siraben>
Incremental backups, encryption, deduplication and all?
<cole-h>
and since the snapshots are incremental, I get a full backup from that point in time, basically
<bbigras>
I guess some people might not trust them. but I mean with restic I still have to trust the deduplication
<cole-h>
No dedupe, not enough RAM for that. Encrypted and incremental, though.
<bbigras>
or maybe the saying is that "don't just use snapshot on your computer". while copying them to an external disk is fine
<cole-h>
Snapshots won't help if my SSD fails, indeed.
<bbigras>
I should set automatic snapshots with btrfs. I tried using snapper once but it didn't clear my old snapshots automatically.
<nicolas[m]>
IIRC snapper supports timers
<bbigras>
yeah snapper did take the snapshots. and it has a setting to clear old ones. but I think I wasn't saving them to the right place or something.
<nicolas[m]>
Is there a user contributed NixOS module that does automatic snapshot when doing a rebuild?
<bbigras>
I bumped nixos-unstable. 14.6GB to download. 🤔
<bbigras>
no. 4GB to download. 14.6GB might be to install.
<bbigras>
or copy
<red[evilred]>
Wow - an AWS engineer just tried to call me out on a sales call. Trying to tease me about something.
<red[evilred]>
It did not go well for him.
<bbigras>
cole-h: do you snapshot your nix store, everything or only home?
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<colemickens>
Ugh. I didn't mean to send that?
<colemickens>
Not even sure it sent, gosh darn the Matrix clients still need so much polish
<bbigras>
Send what?
<colemickens>
Element Android is... struggling. that's all.
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<bbigras>
oh yeah for me too. when I send something, it's sent but the message stays in the text field.
<bbigras>
and it's taking a while to refresh
<joepie91>
Element Android is buggy as hell
<joepie91>
colemickens: can recommend looking into Fluffychat instead
<energizer>
is it possible to persist an ssh connection across suspend/resume?
<pie_>
vpns might help
<pie_>
also setting the server and clients to not time out
<joepie91>
energizer: not in a literal sense I don't think, but tmux/screen usage would get you an approximation of that - might be possible to hack something together with mosh also
<pie_>
or look at mosh
<srk>
or ethernal-terminal
<pie_>
whats the use case, sshfs or something?
<joepie91>
oh for sshfs you could also just use autossh
<srk>
mosh can't scroll :D
<pie_>
srk: tmux in mosh?
<srk>
but why
<energizer>
oh i guess this is an XY problem
<joepie91>
heh, yeah
<pie_>
"Mosh is a popular alternative to ET. While mosh provides the same core functionality as ET, it does not support native scrolling nor tmux control mode (tmux -CC). " aha. i have no idea what this means but ok
<srk>
pie_: I'm xmonad user so I don't do tmux :)
<pie_>
srk: hmm
<pie_>
i guss that makes more sense
<srk>
pretty happy with ET tho, just needs systemd.services.eternal-terminal.serviceConfig.OOMScoreAdjust = "-999";
<srk>
:)
<joepie91>
I don't understand WINE's versioning scheme
<samueldr>
make number bigger when they feel like it
<samueldr>
or plain old versioning scheme AFAIUI
<joepie91>
semver doesn't make a lot of sense for software that breaks stuff all the time, and sentimental versioning doesn't make sense for this list of changes either
<joepie91>
as none of them are particularly notable changes?
<samueldr>
>> beginning of the yearly code freeze period
<joepie91>
... that having been said, Foundation support has been solved?
<samueldr>
yearly as in duration of a year, or yearly as it happens once every year?
<samueldr>
I guess it could be that they switched to timed releases
<joepie91>
this does suggest that they just bump the major version every year
<samueldr>
there's the explanation I guess
<joepie91>
odd versioning scheme
<samueldr>
not uncommon
<samueldr>
ruby does it
<samueldr>
every december 25th they release the next ruby
<joepie91>
I don't really see it making sense. it doesn't communicate "we think this is an important set of changes", it also doesn't communicate "breaking changes", and it also doesn't communicate "this is how old your version is" because it doesn't use the year in the release number (like NixOS does)
<samueldr>
chrome does it, in a way, with a six week cycle
<samueldr>
maybe it's fine if the version number doesn't "make sense" here
<__monty__>
It may be as simple as "Users want to see numbers go up."
<samueldr>
as long as it's steadily increasing
* joepie91
feels that's just bad communication
<__monty__>
I've had people complain about "no new versions" even though they didn't experience any bugs or had feature requests.
<joepie91>
sure but that doesn't change by having a different version scheme
<joepie91>
if there's no releases, there's no releases
<samueldr>
1.X.0 is not worse communication than X.0 in my personal opinion, unless they have specified they follow a specific versioning scheme
<joepie91>
(incidentally I think that that particular issue is illustrative of a really serious cultural problem in software, but.)
<energizer>
i dont see a problem with semver even when stuff breaks often
<joepie91>
samueldr: it's bad communication because it doesn't communicate anything
<samueldr>
look
<joepie91>
it's leaving a communication channel unused, making something look meaningful while it isn't
<samueldr>
I didn't say "not bad"
<samueldr>
it's not worse
<joepie91>
I would be making the same complaint if it were 1.X.0
<samueldr>
wherever that steadily increasing number is doesn't matter if there is no meaning
<pie_>
its extra noise
<pie_>
i think is what he is saying
<samueldr>
then what should be done?
<samueldr>
stick to 0.0.1-pre?
<energizer>
joepie91: are you sure it's not semver?
<samueldr>
they don't seem to have a development process that allows them to attach any more value to the version number
<joepie91>
energizer: sure? no. but afaik it isn't
<samueldr>
it's whatever was ready at the moment they decided to release
<joepie91>
samueldr: they should use a versioning scheme that communicates *something* relevant :P
<samueldr>
my question stands
<samueldr>
how?
<samueldr>
and they are
<joepie91>
even if that means a single-segment version number that only ever increments to signal that there is nothing to distinguish releases
<energizer>
it does communicate something relevant, 60 > 59
<pie_>
a date does soud more convenirent
<samueldr>
it's one version more than the previous
<joepie91>
yes, that is not 'relevant'
<samueldr>
it depends
<energizer>
joepie91: yes it is
<pie_>
its not?
<joepie91>
with their current development schedule a year number would make sense
<samueldr>
is 7.x forked from 6.0 and 6.1+ bug fix releases?
<samueldr>
or is 7.x somehow forked from 6.whatever close to next release?
<pie_>
so its wine 20 instead of 60 :P next century rthey have field lengh problems :ÍD
<joepie91>
honestly this is a discussion that is spiraling into a far more time-and-energy-consuming endeavour than I planned on with my original comment :)
<pie_>
yeah this is a classic bikesheddig discussion