<samueldr>
oh, hear me, I don't think "this is good and it can't be better", but there's a scale!
<lovesegfault>
Heck today I saw a guy pooping inside of the subway train :P
<pie_[bnc]>
:O
<worldofpeace>
....
<pie_[bnc]>
didnt know its that bad
<worldofpeace>
tbh
<drakonis>
oh man.
<pie_[bnc]>
wait
<lovesegfault>
DigitalKiwi: roberto is a friend of a friend, IIRC
<samueldr>
that doesn't sound that pleasing :(
<worldofpeace>
I've witnessed this on one occasion I was visting someone
<pie_[bnc]>
SF has subways? :P
<drakonis>
what the hell?
<samueldr>
pie_[bnc]: subway is the biggest restaurant chain worldwide IIRC
<pie_[bnc]>
cue prodding americans about public transport
<DigitalKiwi>
ROFL
<lovesegfault>
pie_[bnc]: Yeah, there's BART (mid-range) and Muni (city subway, but some lines go above-earth, also has busses)
<lovesegfault>
it's super expensive too
<DigitalKiwi>
aye we have Subway here !
<lovesegfault>
to go from Berkeley, where I live, to downtown SF I pay $4.75 each way
<DigitalKiwi>
public transport on the other hand...
<lovesegfault>
the trains are old, dirty and always late
<lovesegfault>
last year I even got fleas on the BART!
<worldofpeace>
such expenssss, $2.75 would only be humane
<lovesegfault>
There's also Amtrak, which is the long-range train (goes to other cities and states) but it's ALWAYS late, and not by a little, by like 4-5h
<DigitalKiwi>
public transport should be free amirite
<lovesegfault>
it's worse than DeutscheBahn and they suck too
<gchristensen>
lovesegfault: one time my amtrak was 4h late and finally arrived, but actually it wasn't my train it was the train that was supposed to come before my train -- the one which was 8h before my train
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: lol
<lovesegfault>
That about sums up my Amtrak experience
<worldofpeace>
lovesegfault: heh, I've always just called those the commuter trains
<gchristensen>
that said, I take amtrak quite often and <3 it, I don't remember it ever being late in the last 4 years
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: I've heard it depends on the line, do you take the Acella express?
<samueldr>
I wonder if the pricing for amtrak actually makes sense, compared to the pricing of via rail here
<gchristensen>
no, the trains out where I am are just above coal-and-steam
<lovesegfault>
samueldr: I used to pay $80 to go from Santa Barbara to Oakland
<DigitalKiwi>
how far is tat
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: Oh, so same as California's
<samueldr>
how does that compare to (quality) coach?
<lovesegfault>
samueldr: on a plane?
<samueldr>
bus
<lovesegfault>
DigitalKiwi: it's a 5h drive I think
<lovesegfault>
maybe more
<DigitalKiwi>
oh so that's less than gas probs
<lovesegfault>
samueldr: Ah, greyhound (bus) is the same price as Amtrack IIRC
<samueldr>
ah
<lovesegfault>
but it's faster (lol)
<samueldr>
here our inter-city buses are cheaper, and more convenient since they actually get *in* the cities
<lovesegfault>
Also, things I've seen this year so far in the BART: A guy pooping, a guy shooting up heroin, a woman smoking crack, a man smoking meth, a guy cut another guy's ear, a guy attack an elderly man for no reason, A DEAD GUY, a guy throw up all over a lady
<lovesegfault>
it's INSANE
<lovesegfault>
it's only January too
<DigitalKiwi>
sounds like a tuesday
<pie_[bnc]>
oh wait what
<pie_[bnc]>
<lovesegfault> it's only January too
<samueldr>
pie_[bnc]: welcome to 2020!
<lovesegfault>
Oh, I also saw a guy jump in front of the train last year
<DigitalKiwi>
i'm broke and my car is broke anyone wanna buy some stickers :D
<gchristensen>
qyliss: Futurama is my drug for "can't sleep" nights
<lovesegfault>
it's been really something moving here
<gchristensen>
lovesegfault: come to the berkshires!
<pie_[bnc]>
and I thought my lifeis bad
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: I don't like working remote :(
<gchristensen>
ah
<pie_[bnc]>
watching that stuff every day must have a great effect on society
<lovesegfault>
the other day someone jumped on the tracks again and I though to myself "Ugh, what an ass****" then I stopped and realized I was upset at someone for having killed themselves and hadn't given a single thought to them as a person
<lovesegfault>
it was like woah
<worldofpeace>
I have a really weird relationship living in cites like that lovesegfault, but it really takes some divine virtues to avoid becoming very jaded
<lovesegfault>
I also catch myself dehumanizing homeless people in my thoughts, as if I've become completely desensitized to their woes; I try hard to avoid it but it feels impossible
<lovesegfault>
in sum moving to SF has not been good at all to my mental health
<lovesegfault>
worldofpeace: Yeah, definitely
<lovesegfault>
I've been considering moving to NY since there's an office there and when I visited last year it wasn't as bad as SF
<pie_[bnc]>
holy s*** tho.
<worldofpeace>
lovesegfault: I work with LGBTQ+ homeless youth, and just one moment really talking to someone and seeing what life is like... can't be desensitized
<lovesegfault>
worldofpeace: I think if you're actively working with them that's true, but I find that if you stop you tend to desensitize again. My mom works with homeless in Brazil and I used to be somewhat involved, and when I moved away I slowly progressed (regressed) into desensitization
<pie_[bnc]>
i dont see how you could not desensitize yourself if you arent doing anything about it
<pie_[bnc]>
or at least for me. idk.
<pie_[bnc]>
i cant even decide if i want to give homeless people here money.
<gchristensen>
I usually do socks and granola bars
<lovesegfault>
I never give money because I don't carry cash anyway
<samueldr>
here, money is generally bad since most of them actually have a place to go back to, eat, and sleep
<pie_[bnc]>
yeah, I dont know the details but im in europe so at least theres that
<lovesegfault>
We're thinking of opening an EU office, I'd love to move honestly
<qyliss>
I give homeless people money, usually
<samueldr>
but we don't really have much homelessness here in my city, it's not that big of a city
<lovesegfault>
gotta go get groceries or my wife will kill me, brb
lovesegfault is now known as lovesegfault_gro
<samueldr>
they are technically homeless, but not really means-less
<worldofpeace>
lovesegfault: If it's not money, here's compassion and empathy. the mindset that homelessness divides you into makes your perception very clouded
<qyliss>
The argument I've usually heard against giving money is that it's likely to be spent on drugs or alcohol
<qyliss>
But if they don't get any money, I don't really understand what an alcoholic homeless person is supposed to do other that die of alcohol withdrawals
<DigitalKiwi>
that's what i'd spend it on
<qyliss>
It's not like you can just go without. That's not what addiction is.
<samueldr>
it's a hard problem for sure
<DigitalKiwi>
if you're homeless you need the drugs and alcohol more than me :)
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<worldofpeace>
qyliss: true, true, true. I remind people the same things, but people are typically very ignorant of addiction
<qyliss>
extremely
<qyliss>
not like there's much opportunity to learn much about it til you're close to it, to be fair
<DigitalKiwi>
i've never been addicted i say as i drink my 4th starbucks of the day
<worldofpeace>
and it can be soo difficult, ignorance is like a cloud of unawareness. and right qyliss being immersed in it you can't understand the things that it is, it's just a contrasting experience. you can only really gain awareness of those sort of things when it's safe for that kind of awareness to grow.
<qyliss>
now i really really should go to bed
<gchristensen>
/quote remove #nixos-chat qyliss :go to sleep
<worldofpeace>
meanwhile I'm reaching my 78 hour day
<gchristensen>
what are you people doing!
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<gchristensen>
go rest :P
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<DigitalKiwi>
amphetamines, it sounds like :P
<worldofpeace>
gchristensen: I'm telling you long blinks count!
<worldofpeace>
DigitalKiwi: lol, NO
<gchristensen>
bad invention idea: sleep trackers to +q y'all when you hit too many hours awake
<DigitalKiwi>
sometimes i sleep but then i wake up to irc/signal
<worldofpeace>
it would probably be ineffective, it would need dual action (gentle) electrostatic reminders
* DigitalKiwi
to me *that's how sleep works you dummy*
<worldofpeace>
that might steer things back to san francisco
<drakonis>
bear claws
<gchristensen>
worldofpeace: pretty sure there is bear culture here too
<drakonis>
a beary good sleep
<drakonis>
is addiction to sleep called hibernation?
<DigitalKiwi>
in the EU you must sleep after at most 20 minutes
<DigitalKiwi>
that's what i tell my boss when they catch me dozing on the job!
<samueldr>
DigitalKiwi: read carefully, the rules are different if you're a coffee machine
<DigitalKiwi>
i'm secretly british so i drink tea
<drakonis>
do you chug tea?
<gchristensen>
eh?
<DigitalKiwi>
is that a euphemism
<drakonis>
yes
<drakonis>
a tea powered kiwi
<DigitalKiwi>
i mean i do regularly drink about 6 tea kettles
<worldofpeace>
I'm instantly regretting consulting urban dictionary for the fun of it
<DigitalKiwi>
what did you find
<gchristensen>
uh oh
<DigitalKiwi>
wire it to me if you have to
<DigitalKiwi>
or send a telegram
<DigitalKiwi>
THAT IS ONLY FOR THE PUN
<worldofpeace>
DigitalKiwi: Wire'd, but I'm telling you it's not worth it
<DigitalKiwi>
the best part was the typo of plan/plain
* DigitalKiwi
goes back to adding imagemagick filter to website
<DigitalKiwi>
gotta add thumbnails and optimize images!
<samueldr>
HA! the jig is up, DigitalKiwi
<samueldr>
optimize isn't british enough!
<DigitalKiwi>
i went to the bad schoools
<worldofpeace>
samueldr++
<{^_^}>
samueldr's karma got increased to 159
<worldofpeace>
we might need a separate karma system just for farsical purposes
<samueldr>
something that's extremely on brand with me: spending so much yark shave time to add a feature that's mostly cosmetic
<samueldr>
yak shave*
<DigitalKiwi>
i added support for drafts because i was too lazy to move a file
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<samueldr>
damn it, I didn't check deeply enough with that library, and it's using .so "loaders", which don't seem to play well with being patchelf'd and nukeref'd by extra utils for stage-1 :(
<samueldr>
anyone knows of a good C library, hopefully small, that allows resizing png images?
<samueldr>
I might just as well fork and strip that one of its "loaders" facility
<samueldr>
imlib2 is the library that works just fine, except for that detail
<drakonis>
what are you bootstrapping?
<samueldr>
NixOS
<samueldr>
:3
<drakonis>
huh, neat.
<samueldr>
hm, libgd could be an option
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<pie_[bnc]>
i think thats more like a good invention idea but ... <gchristensen> bad invention idea: sleep trackers to +q y'all when you hit too many hours awake
<drakonis>
experiment: multiple packages output from a single build, define the steps to produce a given output
<drakonis>
ie: steps to generate a curl nar with only the library
<drakonis>
get rid of requiring multiple builds for minor changes
<drakonis>
reduce closure size by pulling in smaller deps
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<samueldr>
in the end, I uh... forgot that SVGs exist and are inherently resizable
<samueldr>
and found a wonderful tiny library that rendered what I wanted
<qyliss>
although i'm surprised hub was considered unofficial since it was in the GitHub org, developed by GitHub employees
<infinisil>
qyliss: Confirmation that it's actually official, because from the project itself one doesn't really get the feeling for that: https://paste.infinisil.com/pVDI5nl-CQ.png
<infinisil>
But yeah, hub is under the github org, weird that they call it unofficial
<qyliss>
I saw someone say yesterday that Red Hat have basically bought IBM with IBM's money
<drakonis>
its the red hat trojan horse
<drakonis>
its basically apple and next
<cransom>
i was at a company where they bought another. 6 months later, acquired company ceo became the ceo, and we rebranded to said company. it was equally weird.
<cransom>
i live a few minutes from the redhat tower. i was hoping the hat turned blue. my dreams are crushed.
<drakonis>
that's exactly what happened when steve jobs got kicked out of apple, started next, next got popular and then he got brought back, then next folded into apple
<drakonis>
gonna be good.
<drakonis>
y'all gonna watch fosdem?
<qyliss>
I'm really kicking myself for not going
<drakonis>
there's streams
<gchristensen>
I was talking to somebody (sheesh, I can't remember out of the 10 peopele I met with yesterday ...) about how I was jealous about all the great conferences in EU. they pointed to the HUGE number of confs in the US... but so many of those are commercial, and the EU has all the great community-oriented/hacker-spirit confs
<qyliss>
Like NixCon!
<Taneb>
Speaking of, is there any idea for a venue for NixCon 2020?
<drakonis>
nixcon is still pretty heavy on the corporate support tho
<qyliss>
so is pretty much everything else
<drakonis>
not denying that
<drakonis>
fosdem has a ton of it
<qyliss>
Even Congress gets lots of corporate money by selling extremely expensive tickets and asking people to expense them
<gchristensen>
hehe
<cransom>
i used to go to a lot of linux/devops meetups until i felt they all turned into '1 click docker/kubernetes success' or other vendor sales demos.
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<drakonis>
congress is just impressive.
<drakonis>
i'd love to live in europe just for the con circuit
<__monty__>
drakonis: I'm pretty sure more "bridges" were sold to US businessmen than the other way around... : >
<drakonis>
haw.
<drakonis>
psst hey i've a bridge to sell
<__monty__>
qyliss: How many channels are you in that the list is too much but occasional meta-a'ing allows you to follow all of them?
<qyliss>
__monty__: 83
<gchristensen>
ow
<gchristensen>
my list of channels + PMs is less than that
<drakonis>
ow goddamn.
<qyliss>
lots of them are quite inactive
<drakonis>
the highest i've ever been was 36 channels
<qyliss>
that's across five IRC networks too :D
<drakonis>
wow.
<qyliss>
four, sorry
<__monty__>
I have a hard time using meta+a with 20-30 channels. Always close PM windows.
<qyliss>
I counted the WeeChat buffer as an IRC network
<qyliss>
I turned the buflist back on to see all the buffers and it's making me anxious already
<qyliss>
I don't read everything in every channel, fwiw
<qyliss>
But otoh if I'm bored, I have stuff to read.
<qyliss>
So whether I actually read a channel or just hit meta-a again immediately depends on how much other stuff is waiting in my hotlist
<FireFly>
I do similarly (another aspect is that I'm in a lot of channels that are fairly slow-moving and quiet, but cover subjects I find interesting)
<FireFly>
I'm in Too Many channels >.>
<qyliss>
How many channels are you in?
<FireFly>
I have 188 buffers atm in weechat
<qyliss>
I was going to guess 400
<FireFly>
On freenode I'm usually in 100-120 channels I think
<FireFly>
kinda varies a bit
<FireFly>
qyliss: heh
<gchristensen>
there is a great weechat plugin to sort buffers by name, I like it a lot
<gchristensen>
I am wanting to patch it, though, to sort only by channel name and not (network, channel)
<FireFly>
I just navigate between buffers by unique infix (and I don't have the channel tree enabled)
<qyliss>
gchristensen: mine seems to do that?
<gchristensen>
hm?
<qyliss>
Presumably I set it up somehow before I stopped using the channel list
* FireFly
needs to look more at qyliss's nixlib for inspiration
<qyliss>
the lengths i go to to avoid mutable configuration
<samueldr>
I started patching software to look into /etc/ for configuration, especially those that only looked in home, it's been effective for the few things I worked on
<samueldr>
though it does have the drawback of requiring builds
<gchristensen>
qyliss: this makes me long for flakes. it would be so great if you could publish this nix-to-weechat-config library somewhere and let me use it without copy or git effort
<qyliss>
samueldr: my XDG_CONFIG_HOME is /run/current-system/etc/xdg/nixos/per-user/qyliss
<samueldr>
nice
<qyliss>
I think the only thing I have to patch is tmux, which doesn't support XDG_CONFIG_HOME
<qyliss>
gchristensen: I'm not sure if I want to maintain such a library :P
<qyliss>
At some point I would like to see if using home-manager is feasible for my ro-home use case
<samueldr>
yeah, tmux loads from /etc, and this has the added dubious bonus of loading the config as root, too, the one time I had to
<qyliss>
If it was I'd try to put stuff like this in there
<FireFly>
I started working on something similar to keep config files outside of ~, I need to continue with it
<gchristensen>
I was dreaming the other day about making / a fuse filesystem which used the `pid` parameter passed to each open() to determine if I wanted it to be able to access anything outside of its closure
<colemickens>
Been learning new stuff lately! Today is going to be trying to use a logic analyzer to start on replacing a standing desk controller with an ESP32. :D
<gchristensen>
colemickens: whoa! that is SO cool!
<gchristensen>
colemickens: are you gonig to write about it? =)
<qyliss>
gchristensen: isn't that what GoboLinux did (does?)?
<samueldr>
I don't think they had filesystem validation?
<samueldr>
I mean, I was looking closely at gobolinux, and only their slow pace made me look away, I even run their kernel patches!
<gchristensen>
does gobolinux have queryable closures?
<samueldr>
AFAIK no
<gchristensen>
aye
<samueldr>
they only have versioned folders IIRC
<qyliss>
I know almost nothing about it but I remember they did FS trickery
<samueldr>
so e.g. libpng-1.6.1, but not libpng-1.6.1-build-with-that-gcc-and-those-libs
<samueldr>
the FS trickery they do is "literally" a rootkit strategy of not returning a folder on ls
<samueldr>
qyliss: more like ls /, it checks in the blacklist, removes etc from the output, removes bin ...
<samueldr>
but if you access it, it still exists, so ls /etc lists it
<qyliss>
ah, hmm
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<samueldr>
gchristensen: I used a similar trick in my /Applications Proof of concept
<gchristensen>
oh cool
<samueldr>
where I looked at UID to list all .desktop files from that user's list
<gchristensen>
oh cool!
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<samueldr>
though it really would have benefited of not only listing .desktop files, but actually following the menu spec to file them in subfolders
<gchristensen>
:o
<gchristensen>
I love that idea
<gchristensen>
I have been thinking about this fuse fs lately because I really want to be able to install programs for my user for handy shell scripting, but I don't want programs my shell calls to be able to use them, because it would indicate a broken closure for that program
<gchristensen>
for example, Slack needs xdg-open, but it wasn't in its closure. I didn't have it installed and saw mystery bugs many other people didn't see ... because they installed it so they could use it in their CLI
<qyliss>
you could also do some sort of LD_PRELOAD trick and warn to stderr if something accessed a store path not in its closure
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<samueldr>
the fuse fs could have a log
<samueldr>
is this something MAC like SELinux can help with?
<samueldr>
(I'm soooo not up to speed with the MAC stuff on Linux)
<gchristensen>
yeah probably but that stuff is scary and sounds hard and potentially produce results, whereas writing a fuse filesystem sounds like a huge hack I could have fun with and then have no tangible results
<srk>
selinux is nice except for m4 and reference policy targeting only rhel/fedora (FHS..)
<drakonis>
gentoo's selinux policy is pretty nice
<srk>
yeah, that's like the only one existing outside RH
<srk>
pretty small compared to reference one tho
<gchristensen>
to me, it feels strange that we don't have great support for something like selinux or apparmor already. we know *SO MUCH* about what our software should and should not be doing already. (that said, I'm not totally surprised -- perhaps it will come some day when BigCorpEnterprise ponies up some people or cash)
<srk>
if we use nix to generate m4 it could be doable
<gchristensen>
iirc one of the places it gets stuck is /nix/store doesn't support extended attributes, which I think SELinux requires
<srk>
ooh, good point
<srk>
which attributes does nix preserve?
<gchristensen>
I think "executable bit" :) not certain, though
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<srk>
also symlink and directory :)
<srk>
putFile (Regular isExec fSize contents)
<srk>
is NAR versioned?
<gchristensen>
not sure
<srk>
it is .. header = str "nix-archive-1"
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<samueldr>
if one wanted to check for a key being held at boot, `evtest --query` can do it
<samueldr>
for ev in /dev/input/event*; do sudo evtest --query "$ev" EV_KEY KEY_ENTER ; echo $? ; done # which will print a list of zeroes and likely a 10
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<samueldr>
(you could do this directly using evdev too, but this is something you can use to quickly cobble together a test)
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<qyliss>
Does anybody know how to get a gtk program to not go all grey when it's inactive?
<qyliss>
I find it very distracting with a tiling WM
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<samueldr>
with no theme configured, so adwaita, gnome-disks (the only gtk 3 app I can remember having handy) doesn't change depending on focus here, curious if it would be your theme
<qyliss>
I don't have a theme configured, so assuming it's adwaita
<qyliss>
The program is pkgs.dino
<qyliss>
I guess it could be the program...
<qyliss>
Nope, gnome-disks does it too
<qyliss>
I'm extremely confused
<samueldr>
X11 with awesome wm here, not sure if magic could happen
<samueldr>
or maybe I have something configured and I don't realize
<qyliss>
I'm on sway but I know i3+Xfce does it too
<samueldr>
GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0
<samueldr>
DESKTOP_SESSION=gnome
<samueldr>
those are in my environment, maybe it could taint my tests
<samueldr>
unset those and (what I presume is) adwaita stays the same whether focused or not
<samueldr>
(it still could be me having configured something)
<samueldr>
oh, on 19.09
<qyliss>
I'm on unstable
<jtojnar>
I can reproduce it on unstable in GNOME Shell
<samueldr>
that could help point towards the introduction of the feature
<qyliss>
wonderful yes that could work
<samueldr>
I'm asking since I know if/when it happens to me it's going to bug me
<qyliss>
It's extremely annoying, especially if you run gtk apps in a fullscreen workspace
<qyliss>
because it means they flash half a second after you switch to them