<drakonis>
is it bad that i want to see how using guix is like?
<gchristensen>
go for it! :)
<infinisil>
Maybe I should implement a karma system where the more karma you gave, the less your karma is worth heh
<pie_[bnc]>
infinisil: or just give it a timeout
<pie_[bnc]>
drakonis: and then steal all the features
<infinisil>
I think I have a timeout, but it's like max 5 karma per minute or so
<drakonis>
there's a lot of features to be stolen here
<drakonis>
there's a supernova of things that can be taken here
<drakonis>
ie: not depending on bash to operate on files
<drakonis>
all this grafting bizniz
<drakonis>
the whole user experience being a marked improvement
<drakonis>
faster feature iteration
<pie_[bnc]>
nixos sucks
das_j has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
das_j has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil>
To debug problems: I need to know what you did, what you expect it to do, why you expect it to do that, and how you determined that it didn't do that
<infinisil>
I think with these questions answered, debugging problems will be much faster in many cases
<drakonis>
was that intended to be sent here?
<infinisil>
Yeah
<infinisil>
Just a conclusion a came to from being annoying about playing support in #nixos
<infinisil>
s/a came/i came
endformationage has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
drakonis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7]
vesper11 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
vesper has joined #nixos-chat
yl has joined #nixos-chat
yl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
tokudan has quit [Quit: Dunno.]
tokudan has joined #nixos-chat
tokudan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tokudan has joined #nixos-chat
kenjis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis1 has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb>
infinisil: I have considered having a Github repo, for when people ask me questions
<eyJhb>
And if they are stupid or there is a need for more information, then just link them to that, which has a template ....
<joepie91>
(a much less abrasive version of "how to ask smart questions")
<joepie91>
(MUCH less)
<eyJhb>
So, just send them that joepie91 ? ;)
<eyJhb>
Or link it in the template :p
<joepie91>
eyJhb: I usually just send it to them, and point at the specific relevant bit
<joepie91>
that having been said: people who ask terrible questions are often unwilling to read something first
<joepie91>
(which is often why they are asking the terrible question to begin with)
<joepie91>
so the success rate is not as high as I'd like :P
<eyJhb>
Yup, and unwilling to Google themselves because "it's just easier asking you"
* pie_[bnc]
is still guilty of this
<eyJhb>
GET OUT
<eyJhb>
:(
<pie_[bnc]>
gotta fight it
<pie_[bnc]>
why. do. i. have. so. much. stuff. open.
<MichaelRaskin>
eyJhb: I guess if you answer by requesting more information in the form of requesting to perform point 4 from «Getting answers», this might change the effort balance?
spacekookie has quit [Quit: **agressive swooshing**]
spacekookie has joined #nixos-chat
tilpner_ has joined #nixos-chat
tilpner has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
tilpner_ is now known as tilpner
Synthetica has joined #nixos-chat
<Synthetica>
Now that it is 2020: are there plans to set `pythonPackages = python3Packages`?
<MichaelRaskin>
Isn't this a bad idea?
<__monty__>
But even fsf says "python" should always point to python 2.
<MichaelRaskin>
Dropping pythonPackages alias at all might make sense, though
<MichaelRaskin>
Synthetica: maybe write an RFC?
<MichaelRaskin>
(for dropping the alias)
<Synthetica>
__monty__: Does that hold even into a future where Python2 is no longer supported?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes
<qyliss>
The FSF?
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess PSF
<Synthetica>
MichaelRaskin: Might be a good idea
<__monty__>
Ah, yes, typo/brainfart.
<MichaelRaskin>
There were enough things done wrong by Python upstream, that Python3 is now forever version-suffixed
<__monty__>
That's what happens when you try to slap an existing name on a different programming language.
<drakonis1>
how different is it tho?
<__monty__>
Enough.
<__monty__>
It's almost perl6 different.
<qyliss>
really?
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't think it is _that_ different
<__monty__>
According to arguments I've read, yes.
<qyliss>
i thought it was largely just strings behaved differently, and print is a function
<MichaelRaskin>
Why they did not keep unicode as a Unicode string name is beyond my comprehension
<__monty__>
The latter isn't even a thing thanks to __future__.
<drakonis1>
its really not that different lol
<drakonis1>
its like a major version bump in software
<drakonis1>
the overall language hasnt changed
<__monty__>
Yeah, that's why the transition's taking a decade.
<Synthetica>
__monty__: I guess you're refering to PEP 394?
<drakonis1>
it didnt take a decade though
<drakonis1>
the libraries worth caring about have already transitioned into python 3
<Synthetica>
Because that explicitly leaves room for change: "This recommendation will be periodically reviewed over the next few years, and updated when the core development team judges it appropriate. As a point of reference, regular maintenance releases for the Python 2.7 series will continue until January 2020."
<drakonis1>
they axed python 2 when everyone did
<__monty__>
Synthetica: Yep, so it'll hold until it's revised. Not nixpkgs' job to revise it.
<drakonis1>
hmm no i read it wrong
<drakonis1>
gee thanks phrasing
<drakonis1>
its basically "we're going to support it as long as they're paying"
<drakonis1>
thanks google?
<drakonis1>
same as red hat it seems
<__monty__>
This is all the evidence I need to stand by saying python3 is a different language. Feel free to remain unconvinced.
<qyliss>
Google not wanting to upgrade is evidence it's a different language?
<__monty__>
No, enough resources being dedicated to avoiding moving on to python 3 is evidence.
<__monty__>
Pypy is another interesting case. rpython's not ever gonna move to python3.
<qyliss>
That doesn't have anything to do with the language, necessarily
<qyliss>
But perhaps we mean different things by language
<__monty__>
Maybe we do. If it was the same language I'd expect everyone to move on without drama but there's tons of drama.
<qyliss>
Well, suppose the only changes were a huge overhaul of the standard library
<qyliss>
That wouldn't be a different language, but people still wouldn't want to upgrade
<__monty__>
If it was a big enough improvement they would.
<qyliss>
sure
<__monty__>
Python 3 is *clearly* not from my pov.
<qyliss>
suppose the changes were absolutely dreadful
<qyliss>
it still wouldn't be a different language
drakonis1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7]
<qyliss>
My point is that people not wanting to upgrade doesn't make it a different language.
<__monty__>
People not wanting/being able to upgrade even though support is stopping isn't the same as "people being babies about updating to a new version."
<qyliss>
I didn't say it was.
<qyliss>
I said it didn't necessarily make it a different language
<averell>
i wonder how long the rust people will keep the (<2018) edition thing going
<__monty__>
Is that their indicator for how far the compiler is backwards compatible?
<averell>
yes, that was a major change, and you can just select it in your config. they have more small stuff, like a lot of people using nightly which has special features too.
<__monty__>
That was actually really hard to work with as a non rustacean.
<__monty__>
A project that was written using nightly, didn't work with stable and didn't work with the current nightly... : /
<averell>
to be fair their tooling is great, it's easy to get an exact version. even the rust nix overlay :) but yeah it can be annoying
<LnL>
it's great, but I agree nightly should be considered much more of a tradeoff
<__monty__>
Or people should at least mention *which* version of nightly works.
<LnL>
that trend will probably also decrease as rust stabilises more and more
kenjis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kenjis has joined #nixos-chat
<qyliss>
The 2015 edition will be supported forever, supposedly
alex_giusi_tiri has joined #nixos-chat
<MichaelRaskin>
Of course, per-crate granularity of edition choice makes it possible that a migration happens anyway
<gchristensen>
yeah that is really good
kenjis has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
alex_giusi_tiri has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<eyJhb>
Anybody up for recommending a good film? Sci-Fi, Romance, Drama, Comedy, something in the direction? (not all combined)
alex_giusi_tiri has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen>
seen Primer?
<Synthetica>
El Camino if you've seen Breaking Bad
<eyJhb>
They are all before my time __monty__ ! - gchristensen nope, but I might have to add that to my alone list :p Didn't win the lady over.
<eyJhb>
I think we might go with El Camino, as we have both seen the series
<gchristensen>
fair enough
<gchristensen>
definitely, definitely watch it though
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Give them a chance. Thank me later.
<eyJhb>
Even if the trailer is somewhat, very silent
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: Will do! Adding it to bookmarks, and hoping I won't forget it :p
<eyJhb>
__monty__: I really really should!
<gchristensen>
wait eyJhb you haven't seen *any* of the movies __monty__ listed?
<gchristensen>
oh dear
<eyJhb>
Nope, none
<eyJhb>
I have meant to see Spaceballs a couple of times, but never goten aronud to it :/
<gchristensen>
...
<MichaelRaskin>
If you want to be surprised by how many things people haven't seen, you can ask _me_ whether I have seen some movies
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: have you seen them?
<MichaelRaskin>
I haven't seen any of the ones mentioned in this conversation.
<gchristensen>
:o
<gchristensen>
y'all.
<MichaelRaskin>
And not going to!
<gchristensen>
okay :)
<eyJhb>
Welllllll
<MichaelRaskin>
I am pretty sure I have seen zero movies in the last four years
<eyJhb>
That's the same for me I guess
<eyJhb>
Ohh, I have seen waaay to many, but mostly romance
<gchristensen>
obviously no obligation to watch them, but they're pretty good :)
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: why no movies ?
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: well, at some point I should... But when, that is the best question
<eyJhb>
Also, four exams this month :|
<__monty__>
Ah, good idea GC, misleading him publicly so he's not suspicious while we plan a raid. I just found my Clockwork Orange eye clamps, you bring the projector? Let's discuss further in private though.
<gchristensen>
lol
<MichaelRaskin>
eyJhb: consuming something which has a meaning, at a fixed speed, with undivided attention?
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: has a meaning and fixed speed doesn't seem that bad
<eyJhb>
Undicided attention, that I cnanot do
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: So you prefer games?
<MichaelRaskin>
Undivided attention and fixed speed can even work for me. Eating mangos is more or less like that
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: sometimes (and very often use the Wrong™, like I am pretty sure that beyond-the-screen-edge sniping is not how Plazma Burst was supposed to be played)
<MichaelRaskin>
Also, large amounts of texts, some of them I probably shouldn't actually waste time on
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: what DO you waste time on then? :D
<MichaelRaskin>
On reading texts, as I said!
<MichaelRaskin>
And sometimes on games
<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: you're wonderful, I like you and I'm glad you're here :)
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: And there's no external reasons? Like, I could imagine visually impaired people not liking movies as much.
<MichaelRaskin>
Also on some low pleasures, be it porn or eating mangos.
<MichaelRaskin>
It's kind of complicated to say if I am visually impaired
<MichaelRaskin>
+6/+0, if you know what I mean
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, maybe not really +6. maybe it is +4
<MichaelRaskin>
At that skew it starts depending on too many things
<MichaelRaskin>
I would say it is more that I am really bad at reading body language/emotions/whatever
<eyJhb>
And so movies are no fun?
<MichaelRaskin>
Reading a script of a movie would be a strictly superior experience, probably
<MichaelRaskin>
As I said, if I need to process meaningful information, I'd better be able to speed up low-density parts
<eyJhb>
Forward function?
<eyJhb>
x4 the speed? :D
<eyJhb>
I never see actually movies on the TV
<MichaelRaskin>
For forward function, I need to know pretty well how much to skip
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't think there is any dearth of text content with quality competitive to movies
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: Do you correct with a single lens? Or glasses with one "fake" glass?
<MichaelRaskin>
At some point I was wearing +4/+0 corrective glasses
<MichaelRaskin>
Then I gave up on correcting
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not a very careful person…
<gchristensen>
really?
<MichaelRaskin>
Absolutely
<MichaelRaskin>
Sometimes seeing nits to pick (sometimes ones with important implications) and being careful about the entirety of text and not missing stupid typos are already two different skills. And I am probably below the average for the second one. Being physically careful is a _set_ of somewhat related skills, at I am just plain fail at a large subset of them.
<gchristensen>
gotcha
<MichaelRaskin>
At some point I had a small cut on my side, below the shoulder — on the ribcage, not on the arm. I managed to get it from a corner of a piece of furniture
tilpner has quit [Quit: tilpner]
<__monty__>
Please tell me you got it from some weirdly safe piece of furniture like a padded comfy chair?
<MichaelRaskin>
Obviously not, I am careless, not fragile
<MichaelRaskin>
Accidentally dropping the chairs sometimes happens. Not too often.
<eyJhb>
"accidentally", why.. Why are you picking them up all the time?
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't need to pick them up to drop them!
<__monty__>
: o You make it sound like you're a jedi!
<eyJhb>
Wait, what are you doing? It sounds amazing :p
<eyJhb>
How many legs do these chais have?
<__monty__>
(I assume he meant leaning back in a chair and falling.)
<eyJhb>
That sounds even less elegant
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope, _that_ does not happen
<__monty__>
Then how do you drop chairs without picking them up?
<MichaelRaskin>
That would include actual risks of actual injury
<MichaelRaskin>
Usually I don't and I try not to. But sometimes I do not leave enough space between my trajectory and a completely unrelated chair, and it turns out there is a negative amount of space
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: any infographics on this?
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, imagine a person walking. Now put a chair in front of the person. If the person doesn't care and have a remotely acceptable sense of balance, the chair will drop
<__monty__>
Ah, and this is a consequence of the vision?
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope, this is a consequence of not caring
<MichaelRaskin>
I have more or less OK vision on one eye
<eyJhb>
So you are more or less kicking chairs MichaelRaskin ?
<MichaelRaskin>
Closer to body checking, I guess
tilpner has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
drakonis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
Synthetica has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
* colemickens
thinks cachix has been broken as often as nearly all other broken pkgs he's experienced in the last year
<colemickens>
how many different nixpkgs can this shell import :P