gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<ldlework> infinisil: I've got my ZNC all setup using your module!
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<infinisil> ldlework: \o/
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<pie_> oh wow the nixos channel is pretty big now
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<tazjin> pie__: I like the ambiguity of that sentence
<samueldr> quite
<pie__> took me a while
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<ldlework> infinisil: it works well good job
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<infinisil> ldlework: Glad to hear!
<infinisil> ldlework: Were the any related problems while setting up?
<ldlework> well
<ldlework> using your branch I do suffer the problem where hte first time I make a nixops machine it fails
<ldlework> then I just have to redeploy and it instantly w orks
<ldlework> that's the only thing
<sphalerite> Hi all! Have I missed much the past few days?
<ldlework> hi sphalerite
<ldlework> watching ##linux bad-mouth NixOS with terrible arguments is shocking
<infinisil> Whoa, reading it..
<ldlework> starts around 9 after the top of the hour
<pie__> make a paste? xD
<ldlework> I mean it was pretty dumb
<pie__> eh my morid curiosity is piqued
<ldlework> lol
<pie__> i see psi-jack is still around, theyre a bit odd iirc
<pie__> *shrug*
<pie__> it seems like everyone was talking past eachother xD
<pie__> not that you have any obligation to convince them
<pie__> maybe you could have brought up an example on how reproducibility isnt as good on other linux systems?
<ldlework> what reproducability
<pie__> well thats what the bitwise matching stuff is about?
<pie__> ive never really thought about comparing distros, i just like nixos, so i never really thought about it
<pie__> (oops, redundant sentence is redundant)
<infinisil> Well nix packages aren't bitwise reproducible
<ldlework> Well I did add some hedges
<ldlework> I said "mostly"*
<ldlework> but I'm wrong sometimes!
<infinisil> I should monitor ##linux for the word "Nix"
<ldlework> bitwise reproducability isn't exactly the goal, it was just how I could think to overstate the reproducability aspect
<pie__> infinisil, alternatively, dont even join that channel? xD
<pie__> ldlework, ok well what i said could be reduced to concretizing a bit why nix actually does whatever better
<infinisil> Eh, there are a bunch of stubborn people in there, but I'm just trying to get NixOS a good face, or something like that
<infinisil> Gotta bring it in slowly, NixOS will take over the world eventually!
<pie__> ldlework, like, "why is apt-get not sufficient?"
<pie__> i cant actually think of anything wrt reproducibility offhand
<pie__> but the isolated environments i certainly find appealing
<pie__> and its not like you cant do that with other distros, but you have to compile studd maually
<pie__> well with my experience with respect to debian
<pie__> nix and nixpkgs provides a more holistic / common starting pint for a lot of stuff
* pie__ not sure if adding holistic in the sentence there really makes sense
<pie__> s/point/pint/
<pie__> infinisil, downside of nixos taking over everything is that it brings systemd too though :p
<pie__> insidious evillll!! :PPPP
<infinisil> Eh, it's not strictly bound to systemd
<infinisil> Maybe we'll get rid of it eventually
<pie__> i know, but curently it EFFECTIVELY is
<infinisil> Yeah
<pie__> and yeah sorry im not working on helping with that x)
<infinisil> Well I don't dislike systemd, it works great for what I need
<infinisil> Heh np, it might be better to not storm ##linux with Nix people
<pie__> lol hostile takeover!
<infinisil> pie__: Do you know Savant, the musician?
<pie__> i dont think so
<ldlework> I still don't really know what I'm supposed to hate about systemd
<ldlework> it seems like supervisord and every other process manager i've ever used
<ldlework> but I'm just getting to know it
<infinisil> pie__: Just reminded me of his song Hostile Makeover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9MDLtGdlkc
<pie__> i dont like that it seems to be eating everything,
<infinisil> (Loving that song)
<pie__> and the breakage people mention.
<ldlework> I don't know what is even meant by eating everything
<ldlework> or what breakage a process manager can cause
<ldlework> I'm not skeptical, just ignorant
<pie__> sure you need time to develop good reliable software, but then it shouldnt have fucking been made a core system component in 3 years if it is such a large component
<pie__> im both skeptical and ignorant
<ldlework> haha
<ldlework> there's so much rhetoric in tech, its dumb
<pie__> dont listen to pie__
<maurer> TBH, while NixOS as it stands is tightly bound to systemd, I think the nixos separation of modules from packages means that a switch to another init system would probably be easier than in another design
<maurer> It'd still be a massive pain though
<maurer> And I think the slnos repos are still sekrit or something?
<pie__> also would like the init/whatever abstraction layer already so poritng to openbsd is more feasible :P (disregarding all the linux features nixos probably depends on xD)
<pie__> maurer, do they exist/
<pie__> ?
<pie__> i hope they do
<ldlework> I wonder
<pie__> wait
<pie__> that sounds too close to slaneesh
* pie__ gets out space marine suit
<pie__> HERESY
<pie__> I SMELL
<sir_guy_carleton> maurer: maybe i shouldn't bring up, but iirc, guixsd is based off nixos and it doesn't have systemd, so making a nixos without systemd seems completely possible
<sir_guy_carleton> i'm guessing it would easiest to have be seperate from nixos and nixpkgs, however
<pie__> i havent looked into guix much, inferring *only* from a little bit of information (i.e. this could all be wrong), doesnt guix more try to follow the nix philosophy than any sort of parallel implementation?
<pie__> does it actually support the nix language?
<pie__> i know they use guile scheme
<simpson> I hear that they have Nix-to-Guix tools.
<pie__> that makes sense
<pie__> not using nix lang would imply no access to nixpkgs and the like
<samueldr> > When a working installation of the Nix package manager is available, you can instead configure Guix with --disable-daemon. In that case, Nix replaces the three dependencies above.
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting ')', at (string):150:68
<samueldr> interesting
<samueldr> > Guix is compatible with Nix, so it is possible to share the same store between both.
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected WITH, expecting ')', at (string):150:20
<pie__> oh, cool.
<samueldr> (I just did a bit of searching as I was curious to the relation)
<pie__> i should have done as much :
<pie__> :)
<samueldr> (I have vague recollection of it somehow using or having used nix under the hood)
<pie__> on that note at some point someone linked me a WIP parallel (as in parallel to nix) implementation of nix in haskell
<pie__> though thats just the implementation language i think :p
<maurer> sir_guy_carleton: My understanding is that guixsd is instead based of shepherd, which is even more unstable than systemd :P
<maurer> sir_guy_carleton: and while they can use some of nixpkgs (I think?) I don't think they can use nixos modules at all
<pie__> inb4 instability is just an excuse to hate systemd specifically :P
<pie__> "Building with GHCJS" wait what
<sir_guy_carleton> maurer: okay, i was just making point that a systemd-free nix-ified distro is quite possible; you could use old sysV init, runnit, etc instead
<sir_guy_carleton> not that would be easy
<infinisil> pie__: Have used hnix before :D
<pie__> oh hm, having read their nix-store project repo read me it seems to be just a front-end thing though, not for the nix backend
<infinisil> Parser, evaluator, and similar things, yeah
<infinisil> pie__: I used it for #42676
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/42676 (by Infinisil, open): treewide: http -> https sources
<pie__> cool
<infinisil> Oh god, I hate this. In a youtube video sponsored by nordvpn, they sell it as "The Worlds Most Advanced Military-Grade VPN - Security With Almost No Impact On Speed"
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<joepie91> the VPN business is awful
<joepie91> it's absolutely chock full of dubious marketing and outright scams
<joepie91> not to mention that nearly every VPN service is set up incorrectly, with security consequences
<joepie91> which... isn't that surprising, if you consider it's a super-lucrative business that takes almost no skill to run profitably, because all the important parts aren't visible or easily auditable
<joepie91> a bit like reseller hosting
<joepie91> and affiliate marketing through 'top lists'
<joepie91> and all those other sketchy industries which seem to be comprised almost exclusively of scumbags
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<pie__> we should get rich off vpn then work on benefiting humanity
<pie__> joepie91, ^
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<samueldr> the pie pals vpn?
<samueldr> won't stick and paypal may not like the name
<samueldr> :)
<pie__> hah
<pie__> what is this, vpn for 10 year olds? xD
<samueldr> what, I don't want military VPNs, I want safe cuddly VPNs ;)