gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
JasonGrossman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<gchristensen> [ 5] 0.00-10.04 sec 10.7 GBytes 9.12 Gbits/sec receiver
<samueldr> that's a lot of bits
<gchristensen> the system can sustain two simultaneous 10Gbit connections
<gchristensen> ooooohh it may be more solid now
matthewbauer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
disasm has joined #nixos-chat
sir_guy_carleton has joined #nixos-chat
matthewbauer has joined #nixos-chat
sir_guy_carleton has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0]
infinisil has quit [Quit: Configuring ZNC, sorry for the joins/quits!]
infinisil has joined #nixos-chat
lassulus_ has joined #nixos-chat
lassulus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
lassulus_ is now known as lassulus
matthewbauer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<jcrben> infinisil: I've been dropping mentions about nix on https://forums.puri.sm/ - digging deeper, I'm tempted to sign up to their tracker just to comment at https://tracker.pureos.net/T366 :)
<jcrben> bit surprised that they aren't at least discussing something like openSUSE's openQA - when you're doing a commercial venture, the stakes are a bit higher than the typical open-source way of doing things
<jcrben> if you're going to create something called PureOS, you should really consider functional purity. I see these poor people raising issues on their forum of failures to boot and wish they could rollback a generation
JasonGrossman has joined #nixos-chat
jasongro` has joined #nixos-chat
jasongro` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
JasonGrossman has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
jtojnar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
<adisbladis[m]> jcrben: I've started doing some plasma mobile packaging for nixos recently
<adisbladis[m]> In anticipation of the librem 54
<adisbladis[m]> 5*
<adisbladis[m]> jcrben: I doubt you'll get them off the debian bandwagon :/
<adisbladis[m]> And honestly we'd need more user friendly tooling (like a graphical interface)
JasonGrossman has joined #nixos-chat
<sphalerite> adisbladis[m]: oh, you are? andi- expressed concerns some concerns about that the other day
<sphalerite> that's awesome
<sphalerite> but yeah I agree with your doubt. I think the best way is to make it ourselves to show them how great it is :D
<adisbladis[m]> I cant wait to use nix-shell on a phone
<infinisil> jcrben: Ohh yes, please do, I'm now also considering that
<sphalerite> I'll probably do it too
<sphalerite> samueldr: memoisation is storing the result
<sphalerite> samueldr: representing multiple arguments through multiple applications is called currying
<infinisil> It's frustrating how often I see people having a lot of problems that are easily solved by Nix
<sphalerite> infinisil: still better than having those problems and not knowing that nix exists and solves the problems
<infinisil> Heh yes
<sphalerite> I built a docker-based development environment thing a couple years ago at work. I wished there was something like nix. It wasn't until I'd stopped working there that I found out that it exists :D
<adisbladis[m]> Ugh -.-
<adisbladis[m]> Docker is not a development tool
<adisbladis[m]> Not a very good one anyway
<sphalerite> Still better than what we had before
<sphalerite> Which is a monolithic, manually and statefully built VM
<adisbladis[m]> sphalerite: I'm not 100% convinced
<adisbladis[m]> Sure, it provides some ease of use over having to install packages manually a-la apt-get
<sphalerite> The solution to problems we usually went for is "get a colleague to export their VM as an image and import that as a replacement"
<infinisil> The only problem with nix is that it doesn't run well on Windows, which docker does
<sphalerite> Yes, I agree that docker isn't good.
<sphalerite> Good for development environments
<adisbladis[m]> infinisil: Well.. Docker doesn't really run on windows at all
<sphalerite> it was still worlds better than what we had before.
<adisbladis[m]> Just like docker for mac they pretend it does
<infinisil> sphalerite: my uni once did the VM thing.. I had to run a slow ass ubuntu vm for 2 FRIGGIN PACKAGES. They couldn't get them to work on anything other than ubuntu, like seriously
<infinisil> That was just about the time i discovered nix, but I didn't know much then and couldn't get it to work with it
<sphalerite> I was also the only member of the team using linux natively, everyone else was on OSX
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
Guest21370 has joined #nixos-chat
<LnL> heh, yeah course exercises that need dependencies nobody uses and are not packaged anywhere
jasongro` has joined #nixos-chat
JasonGrossman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
JasonGrossman has joined #nixos-chat
JasonGrossman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jasongro` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
JasonGrossman has joined #nixos-chat
JasonGrossman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
JasonGrossman has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Are. You. Serious.
<LnL> lol
<infinisil> I hate this world
<infinisil> How could it get to this state
Guest21370 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<manveru> well, looks like office will come to linux then :P
<joepie91> I mean, ditching C++, okay, sure, I can get behind that
<samueldr> from a quick look at their twitter thread, it would be react-native and then a windows-specific version of it :/
<joepie91> in favour of JS, however...
<joepie91> there's an experimental react-native for Qt fwiw
<samueldr> let's see how they make it non-interoperable :')
<manveru> do they run js on .net?
<joepie91> anyhow, I'm skeptical about this development
<samueldr> dotwat? never heard of it
Guest21370 has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> (/s obv.)
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
<jcrben> infinisil: I think it'd seem rude to drop into the PureOS issue tracker and lobby for another package manager. I'm hanging out in their #purism chatroom tho, and just tweeted at Chris Lamby https://twitter.com/jcrben/status/1006900086561857536
<jcrben> Lamby is the elected Debian Project Leader (also involved in PureOS) - I saw that he was trying to get into nix (or integrate more deeply into debian) a while back, but sadly, he got stuck...
<infinisil> jcrben: Well, it does solve the problems they're having
<infinisil> Am also in #purism btw
<infinisil> (reading your msgs now)
<tazjin> people are surprisingly good at resisting tools that solve their problems
<jcrben> I'm probably not the greatest person to lobby for it either, since I'm relatively inexperienced and couldn't answer their questions too well
<manveru> would be cool to know their questions :)
<samueldr> I may have to approach another distro to create a dialogue to harmonize efforts
<samueldr> related to mobile-nixos, since it builds on top of the efforts of postmarketos, it'd be great if both projects cooperates at some level
<manveru> might be fun to build deb/rpm packages via nix so all distros can take part in nixpkgs :)
<joepie91> manveru: nixpkgs as a central repository of build instructions, basically?
<manveru> jup
jasongro` has joined #nixos-chat
<manveru> i mean, in theory that should be possible, right?
<joepie91> manveru: with nixpkgs as-is, that would likely not work as different distros have different rules on what versions to ship
<joepie91> *however*
<joepie91> if a separate repository were to be created, that tracks many versions of all software (basically every version that is contributed), and both nixpkgs *and* debs and rpms were built from that, it would be possible
<infinisil> I mean you can use nixpkgs packages on any distro today already
<joepie91> then nixpkgs would just be one of many consumers
<infinisil> Or not?
<manveru> sure, you can
matthewbauer has joined #nixos-chat
<manveru> this wouldn't solve a technical problem, imho, only a social one
<JasonGrossman> Nix is already doing this for some ... well, not quite distributions, but um things, like Emacs packages, right?
<samueldr> meta-nixpkgs, where all versions are defined for everything ever, and nixpkgs does IFD from meta-nixpkgs to build nixpkgs? :)
<JasonGrossman> :-)
<manveru> samueldr: that'd be so rad :D
<samueldr> in a way, that would be wicked cool, like some kind of central knowledge repository about everything software-related
<samueldr> though, scary!
<infinisil> samueldr: Yes please
<manveru> i just try to imagine the size of that repo...
<infinisil> Maybe get some actual version resolution in there? :O
<matthewbauer> well if you know the release of NixOS the software is in, you can do something like: https://github.com/matthewbauer/blog/blob/master/posts/channel-changing.org
<manveru> matthewbauer: yeah, though that basically could explode your /nix/store size :|
<infinisil> matthewbauer: Heh, I like how you used the release name for the channels
<matthewbauer> yep depending on the closure size it could be huge
<JasonGrossman> Wow, that is an awesome script, matthewbauer!
<JasonGrossman> matthewbauer++
<JasonGrossman> Drats. No kudos bot in this channel.
<infinisil> gchristensen ^^
jasongro` has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jasongro` has joined #nixos-chat
JasonGrossman has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Sonarpulse has joined #nixos-chat
jasongro` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<jcrben> infinisil: you say it solves the problem PureOS is having (discussed at https://tracker.pureos.net/T366) and that nix solve them - how would you phrase that in a concise and readable way? also, a that comes to mind - how hard would it be for them to use nix as a backend without relying upon nix-env or nix 2.0? possibly even just using it to build r
<jcrben> eproducible binaries?
JasonGrossman has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> issue trackers that require logging in to view the issue is wonderful
<gchristensen> *saves face* but Phabricator is not one of them, unless you add an extra ')' to the end of thee URL X)
<infinisil> ...
<infinisil> Yeah can't see it..
<gchristensen> ./testlog.c1.large.arm
<infinisil> Oh alright
<gchristensen> oops
<infinisil> Oh but that's not phabricator is it
<infinisil> I think it worked on mobile though, hold on
<infinisil> (i clicked on such an issue link before and saw stuff on mobile)
<jcrben> btw lamby got back to me https://twitter.com/lolamby/status/1006913369893494786 - I think this repo is his failed attempt at packaging nix for debian https://salsa.debian.org/lamby/pkg-nix
<infinisil> What's exactly the problem with it? Doesn't the nix repo already compile well? What's the problem with getting this into debian?
<gchristensen> people who use and like package managers have a predisposition to not underdstanding the benefits of other package managers (this goes for Nix users too)
<jcrben> you'd best ask lamby - I'm basing my comment on his comment at https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/68al81/debiannix_package_manager_any_experience_or_advice/dgy328d/
<samueldr> but there are absolutely no benefits to anything other than nix *ducks*
<infinisil> I personally don't know much about packaging on other distros, so I can't help with that and have no opinion
<infinisil> Oh, that issue tracker on purism *is* phabricator and removing the ) makes it work :O, how did I not see that after gchristensen pointed it out..
<gchristensen> :D
<jcrben> I guess your IRC client was picking up the ")" as part of the url? should file a bug :p
<gchristensen> for me it was my terminal doing it
<jcrben> the point of packaging nix for debian seems like the same point of packaging anything in debian, right? people would rather not download a shell script and run it
<jcrben> or pull down the repo and compile it
<simpson> jcrben: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Frame_(film) Should file a bug~
<samueldr> urls are hard
<simpson> Yeah.
<jcrben> good point. my client handles both, but I kinda wonder why
<simpson> The "why" is easy: Users want it.
<simpson> "Don't fuck up" is a general user desire.
<infinisil> Having read through the comments on that issue, it is very clear that Nix would work well for that
<infinisil> It solves the problems of: Including unstable versions of packages, reproducible builds (not bit-identical though), recompilation on some low patch (although that will be a bit costly, because no caching)
<infinisil> Registering requires approval by an administrator..
<infinisil> -10 points for purism's tracker
<sphalerite> purism tracker--
<sphalerite> :p
Guest21370 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
{^_^} has joined #nixos-chat
{^_^} has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> purism-tracker--
<gchristensen> {^_^}: you there?
<gchristensen> oh probably lost its connection
<samueldr> I don't think it allows -- either
<gchristensen> samueldr++
<gchristensen> rabbitmq restarted, too :)
<joepie91> this is great
<samueldr> bus stops here have the same issue
<samueldr> "issue"
Drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
Drakonis has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jtojnar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<infinisil> > 1 + 1
<infinisil> > 1 + 1
<infinisil> ,
<infinisil> Ah, I think I need to configure it for this channel, it's kinda hardcoded..
<infinisil> Thanks for adding {^_^}, gchristensen :)
<gchristensen> :)
<gchristensen> !-A
<{^_^}> You'll usually want to use nix-env -i with -A. It's faster and more precise. See https://nixos.wiki/wiki/FAQ/nix-env_-iA for details.
<infinisil> > 1 + 1
<{^_^}> 2
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> There we go :)
<infinisil> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 6
<gchristensen> w00t
<gchristensen> infinisil++
<{^_^}> Did you mean infinity? Increasing infinity doesn't do anything..
<gchristensen> unfair
<infinisil> I should remove that, I can't get karma like this!
<LnL> nice, this is probably a better channel to play around with > expressions
<infinisil> Or #bottest of course
<infinisil> Oh also, gchristensen restart rabbitmq made my bot restart fail (because it attempted 5 times in succession), so I had to manually restart it
{^_^} has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
{^_^} has joined #nixos-chat
{^_^} has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> infinisil++
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to NaN
<gchristensen> fixed
<infinisil> Haha
<infinisil> Sneaky
<joepie91> lol
matthewbauer has quit [Read error: No route to host]
<infinisil> foo++
<{^_^}> foo's karma got increased to 1
<infinisil> nixpkgs/.version
<gchristensen> the best/worst part is the shame of incorrectly using math operators with javascript, infinisil. for shame :)
<infinisil> Heh
<infinisil> How does javascript go into your php/rust thing there though??
<gchristensen> I dunno, your bot implements karma
<infinisil> Heh yaya
* infinisil gets it now
<infinisil> Alright, I think the nix eval bot now shares the state with all channels (it's in at least), this means my weird collection should be here as well:
<infinisil> > :v weird3
<{^_^}> weird3 = weird3 is not defined
<infinisil> Or not
<infinisil> > :v
<{^_^}> All bindings: _show a bar botsnack compose composeAlt doge eval fortune fortunes fortunes1 fortunes10 fortunes2 fortunes3 fortunes4 fortunes5 fortunes6 fortunes7 fortunes8 fortunes9 fromNull greet isfree lib nixos option pkgs r rand random randomUpto rev select sphaleritesLanguage src typecheck updateFunction x
<infinisil> Oh well
<infinisil> > :v weird3
<{^_^}> weird3 = let { body = "foo"; }
<infinisil> > weird3
<{^_^}> "foo"
<infinisil> There we go!
<infinisil> > ircpalette
<{^_^}> "blackbluebrowncyandarkgraygraygreenlightbluelightcyanlightgreenlightmagentalightredmagentaredwhiteyellow"
<infinisil> Colors are apparently disabled here as well..
<gchristensen> > hi
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'hi' at (string):126:1
<gchristensen> lol
<infinisil> What happened
<gchristensen> > ircpalette
<{^_^}> "blackbluebrowncyandarkgraygraygreenlightbluelightcyanlightgreenlightmagentalightredmagentaredwhiteyellow"
<joepie91> chanserv said no
<infinisil> \o/
<gchristensen> I'll turn that on for fun but if its abused maybe turn it back off :P
<infinisil> Alright. I got a primitive pretty printing function using them:
<gchristensen> (having {^_^} synax highlight in > ... would be super fun)
<infinisil> > p { foo = [ "bar" 10 ]; bar = { qux = "hello"; }; }
<{^_^}> "{ bar = { qux = \"hello\"; }; foo = [ \"bar\" 10 ]; }"
<gchristensen> mother of god you've already gone and dun it
<infinisil> The quotes are a bit annoying, and not every type works, I should fix that
<infinisil> :P
<joepie91> how...
<infinisil> irc color codes :)
<joepie91> did you implement that just now or did you have the foresight to do it before gchristensen asked
<joepie91> well yes, that part I get lol
<joepie91> but syntax-highlighting debug output seems like a non-obvious feature
<infinisil> I implemented it before, it's obvious to do once you can get color codes working!
<joepie91> infinisil: also, one suggestion: give it a white background for results and use contrasting color codes
<joepie91> right now it's hard to read on a white background
<infinisil> Oh, screenshot?
<joepie91> no functioning screenshot tool on here, sorry :P
<joepie91> but light green and light gray
<gchristensen> you'll never please everyone :P
<joepie91> hence the white BG
<joepie91> to force contrast
<infinisil> > irc.bcolors.white + p { foo = [ "bar" 10 ]; bar = { qux = "hello"; }; }
<{^_^}> ",00{ bar = { qux = \"hello\"; }; foo = [ \"bar\" 10 ]; }"
<infinisil> joepie91: It looks the same to me, is it different for you?
<LnL> my eyes
<__monty__> Imo, making your colors readable in your responsibility. I always customize the blues and reds because the defaults are eyebleeding.
<__monty__> *is
<gchristensen> agreed __monty__
<gchristensen> blue,brown,cyan,gray,green,lightred,magentn,ared,white all look good from here fwiw
<joepie91> infinisil: looks the same to me, because it was a white BG before and presumably a forced-white BG now as well; but the problem is that the text colors don't contrast with that well
<joepie91> hence my suggestion to do a forced-white bg *and* better contrasting text colors
<joepie91> :p
<infinisil> Hmm alright, I might experiment with it in #bottest
<infinisil> > irc
<{^_^}> { bcolors = <CODE>; bold = ""; codes = <CODE>; colors = <CODE>; italic = ""; reset = ""; reverse = ""; underline = ""; }
<joepie91> you can also force black bg and pick appropriate colors, but in my experience black sections on white background are worse for readability than white sections on black background
<joepie91> for colored text
<infinisil> Oh you know what, the p function does a color reset before it starts printing, so the white background doesn't even apply
<infinisil> > irc.bcolors.white + irc.colors.black + "Hello, I'm some black text on white background!" + irc.reset
<{^_^}> ",00Hello, I'm some black text on white background!"
<infinisil> Whew, that's pretty bad on my terminal..
<infinisil> Needs some tweaking
<infinisil> > irc.bcolors.black + irc.colors.white + "Hello, I'm some white text on black background!" + irc.reset # Let's compare it to this though
<{^_^}> ",01Hello, I'm some white text on black background!"
<joepie91> *bwaap bwaap bwaap*
<joepie91> sad trombone :P
<joepie91> anyway, sleep
<infinisil> Night!
<joepie91> night :)
matthewbauer has joined #nixos-chat
<andi-> colors on IRC... not sure that was a good invention
<infinisil> How is this:
<infinisil> > p { foo.bar = "test"; foo.qux = [ 10 20 "hi" ]; }
<{^_^}> "{ foo = { bar = \"test\"; qux = [ 10 20 \"hi\" ]; }; }"
<infinisil> Well joepie91 is in bed now, I don't really have a white theme to test it on (and it varies with clients and color settings..)
<infinisil> > theme = { set = irc.colors.cyan; string = irc.colors.green; int = irc.colors.brown; }
<{^_^}> theme defined
<infinisil> But you can change the theme now
<infinisil> > p { foo.bar = "test"; foo.qux = [ 10 20 "hi" ]; }
<{^_^}> "{ foo = { bar = \"test\"; qux = [ 10 20 \"hi\" ]; }; }"
<__monty__> I still think that having any colors be unreadable in your terminal is a you problem not a bot problem.
<infinisil> Agreed
<infinisil> #idris has a nice eval bot with colors like this, and I've never heard anybody complain
<infinisil> Nice, this is it for me: https://infinisil.com/s.png
<LnL> that looks way better, my eyes don't hurt and I can read it :p
inquisitiv3 has joined #nixos-chat
<andi-> Is that another Excel-Game?
<gchristensen> its Skyrim for Alexa
jtojnar_ has joined #nixos-chat
jtojnar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
jtojnar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
inquisitiv3 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
jtojnar has quit [Quit: jtojnar]
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
sir_guy_carleton has joined #nixos-chat
Guanin has joined #nixos-chat
matthewbauer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
matthewbauer has joined #nixos-chat
jtojnar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
<samueldr> another month, another speculative execution attack
<samueldr> looks like the linux kernel isn't affected
jtojnar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
matthewbauer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
JasonGrossman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]