<jcrben>
bit surprised that they aren't at least discussing something like openSUSE's openQA - when you're doing a commercial venture, the stakes are a bit higher than the typical open-source way of doing things
<jcrben>
if you're going to create something called PureOS, you should really consider functional purity. I see these poor people raising issues on their forum of failures to boot and wish they could rollback a generation
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<adisbladis[m]>
jcrben: I've started doing some plasma mobile packaging for nixos recently
<adisbladis[m]>
In anticipation of the librem 54
<adisbladis[m]>
5*
<adisbladis[m]>
jcrben: I doubt you'll get them off the debian bandwagon :/
<adisbladis[m]>
And honestly we'd need more user friendly tooling (like a graphical interface)
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<sphalerite>
adisbladis[m]: oh, you are? andi- expressed concerns some concerns about that the other day
<sphalerite>
that's awesome
<sphalerite>
but yeah I agree with your doubt. I think the best way is to make it ourselves to show them how great it is :D
<adisbladis[m]>
I cant wait to use nix-shell on a phone
<infinisil>
jcrben: Ohh yes, please do, I'm now also considering that
<sphalerite>
I'll probably do it too
<sphalerite>
samueldr: memoisation is storing the result
<sphalerite>
samueldr: representing multiple arguments through multiple applications is called currying
<infinisil>
It's frustrating how often I see people having a lot of problems that are easily solved by Nix
<sphalerite>
infinisil: still better than having those problems and not knowing that nix exists and solves the problems
<infinisil>
Heh yes
<sphalerite>
I built a docker-based development environment thing a couple years ago at work. I wished there was something like nix. It wasn't until I'd stopped working there that I found out that it exists :D
<adisbladis[m]>
Ugh -.-
<adisbladis[m]>
Docker is not a development tool
<adisbladis[m]>
Not a very good one anyway
<sphalerite>
Still better than what we had before
<sphalerite>
Which is a monolithic, manually and statefully built VM
<adisbladis[m]>
sphalerite: I'm not 100% convinced
<adisbladis[m]>
Sure, it provides some ease of use over having to install packages manually a-la apt-get
<sphalerite>
The solution to problems we usually went for is "get a colleague to export their VM as an image and import that as a replacement"
<infinisil>
The only problem with nix is that it doesn't run well on Windows, which docker does
<sphalerite>
Yes, I agree that docker isn't good.
<sphalerite>
Good for development environments
<adisbladis[m]>
infinisil: Well.. Docker doesn't really run on windows at all
<sphalerite>
it was still worlds better than what we had before.
<adisbladis[m]>
Just like docker for mac they pretend it does
<infinisil>
sphalerite: my uni once did the VM thing.. I had to run a slow ass ubuntu vm for 2 FRIGGIN PACKAGES. They couldn't get them to work on anything other than ubuntu, like seriously
<infinisil>
That was just about the time i discovered nix, but I didn't know much then and couldn't get it to work with it
<sphalerite>
I was also the only member of the team using linux natively, everyone else was on OSX
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<LnL>
heh, yeah course exercises that need dependencies nobody uses and are not packaged anywhere
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<manveru>
well, looks like office will come to linux then :P
<joepie91>
I mean, ditching C++, okay, sure, I can get behind that
<samueldr>
from a quick look at their twitter thread, it would be react-native and then a windows-specific version of it :/
<joepie91>
in favour of JS, however...
<joepie91>
there's an experimental react-native for Qt fwiw
<samueldr>
let's see how they make it non-interoperable :')
<manveru>
do they run js on .net?
<joepie91>
anyhow, I'm skeptical about this development
<samueldr>
dotwat? never heard of it
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<samueldr>
(/s obv.)
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<jcrben>
infinisil: I think it'd seem rude to drop into the PureOS issue tracker and lobby for another package manager. I'm hanging out in their #purism chatroom tho, and just tweeted at Chris Lamby https://twitter.com/jcrben/status/1006900086561857536
<jcrben>
Lamby is the elected Debian Project Leader (also involved in PureOS) - I saw that he was trying to get into nix (or integrate more deeply into debian) a while back, but sadly, he got stuck...
<infinisil>
jcrben: Well, it does solve the problems they're having
<infinisil>
Am also in #purism btw
<infinisil>
(reading your msgs now)
<tazjin>
people are surprisingly good at resisting tools that solve their problems
<jcrben>
I'm probably not the greatest person to lobby for it either, since I'm relatively inexperienced and couldn't answer their questions too well
<manveru>
would be cool to know their questions :)
<samueldr>
I may have to approach another distro to create a dialogue to harmonize efforts
<samueldr>
related to mobile-nixos, since it builds on top of the efforts of postmarketos, it'd be great if both projects cooperates at some level
<manveru>
might be fun to build deb/rpm packages via nix so all distros can take part in nixpkgs :)
<joepie91>
manveru: nixpkgs as a central repository of build instructions, basically?
<manveru>
jup
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<manveru>
i mean, in theory that should be possible, right?
<joepie91>
manveru: with nixpkgs as-is, that would likely not work as different distros have different rules on what versions to ship
<joepie91>
*however*
<joepie91>
if a separate repository were to be created, that tracks many versions of all software (basically every version that is contributed), and both nixpkgs *and* debs and rpms were built from that, it would be possible
<infinisil>
I mean you can use nixpkgs packages on any distro today already
<joepie91>
then nixpkgs would just be one of many consumers
<infinisil>
Or not?
<manveru>
sure, you can
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<manveru>
this wouldn't solve a technical problem, imho, only a social one
<JasonGrossman>
Nix is already doing this for some ... well, not quite distributions, but um things, like Emacs packages, right?
<samueldr>
meta-nixpkgs, where all versions are defined for everything ever, and nixpkgs does IFD from meta-nixpkgs to build nixpkgs? :)
<JasonGrossman>
:-)
<manveru>
samueldr: that'd be so rad :D
<samueldr>
in a way, that would be wicked cool, like some kind of central knowledge repository about everything software-related
<samueldr>
though, scary!
<infinisil>
samueldr: Yes please
<manveru>
i just try to imagine the size of that repo...
<infinisil>
Maybe get some actual version resolution in there? :O
<manveru>
matthewbauer: yeah, though that basically could explode your /nix/store size :|
<infinisil>
matthewbauer: Heh, I like how you used the release name for the channels
<matthewbauer>
yep depending on the closure size it could be huge
<JasonGrossman>
Wow, that is an awesome script, matthewbauer!
<JasonGrossman>
matthewbauer++
<JasonGrossman>
Drats. No kudos bot in this channel.
<infinisil>
gchristensen ^^
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<jcrben>
infinisil: you say it solves the problem PureOS is having (discussed at https://tracker.pureos.net/T366) and that nix solve them - how would you phrase that in a concise and readable way? also, a that comes to mind - how hard would it be for them to use nix as a backend without relying upon nix-env or nix 2.0? possibly even just using it to build r
<jcrben>
eproducible binaries?
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<gchristensen>
issue trackers that require logging in to view the issue is wonderful
<gchristensen>
*saves face* but Phabricator is not one of them, unless you add an extra ')' to the end of thee URL X)
<infinisil>
...
<infinisil>
Yeah can't see it..
<gchristensen>
./testlog.c1.large.arm
<infinisil>
Oh alright
<gchristensen>
oops
<infinisil>
Oh but that's not phabricator is it
<infinisil>
I think it worked on mobile though, hold on
<infinisil>
(i clicked on such an issue link before and saw stuff on mobile)
<infinisil>
What's exactly the problem with it? Doesn't the nix repo already compile well? What's the problem with getting this into debian?
<gchristensen>
people who use and like package managers have a predisposition to not underdstanding the benefits of other package managers (this goes for Nix users too)
<samueldr>
but there are absolutely no benefits to anything other than nix *ducks*
<infinisil>
I personally don't know much about packaging on other distros, so I can't help with that and have no opinion
<infinisil>
Oh, that issue tracker on purism *is* phabricator and removing the ) makes it work :O, how did I not see that after gchristensen pointed it out..
<gchristensen>
:D
<jcrben>
I guess your IRC client was picking up the ")" as part of the url? should file a bug :p
<gchristensen>
for me it was my terminal doing it
<jcrben>
the point of packaging nix for debian seems like the same point of packaging anything in debian, right? people would rather not download a shell script and run it
<jcrben>
good point. my client handles both, but I kinda wonder why
<simpson>
The "why" is easy: Users want it.
<simpson>
"Don't fuck up" is a general user desire.
<infinisil>
Having read through the comments on that issue, it is very clear that Nix would work well for that
<infinisil>
It solves the problems of: Including unstable versions of packages, reproducible builds (not bit-identical though), recompilation on some low patch (although that will be a bit costly, because no caching)
<infinisil>
Registering requires approval by an administrator..
<{^_^}>
Did you mean infinity? Increasing infinity doesn't do anything..
<gchristensen>
unfair
<infinisil>
I should remove that, I can't get karma like this!
<LnL>
nice, this is probably a better channel to play around with > expressions
<infinisil>
Or #bottest of course
<infinisil>
Oh also, gchristensen restart rabbitmq made my bot restart fail (because it attempted 5 times in succession), so I had to manually restart it
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<gchristensen>
infinisil++
<{^_^}>
infinisil's karma got increased to NaN
<gchristensen>
fixed
<infinisil>
Haha
<infinisil>
Sneaky
<joepie91>
lol
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<gchristensen>
the best/worst part is the shame of incorrectly using math operators with javascript, infinisil. for shame :)
<infinisil>
Heh
<infinisil>
How does javascript go into your php/rust thing there though??
<gchristensen>
I dunno, your bot implements karma
<infinisil>
Heh yaya
* infinisil
gets it now
<infinisil>
Alright, I think the nix eval bot now shares the state with all channels (it's in at least), this means my weird collection should be here as well:
<infinisil>
> :v weird3
<{^_^}>
weird3 = weird3 is not defined
<infinisil>
Or not
<infinisil>
> :v
<{^_^}>
All bindings: _show a bar botsnack compose composeAlt doge eval fortune fortunes fortunes1 fortunes10 fortunes2 fortunes3 fortunes4 fortunes5 fortunes6 fortunes7 fortunes8 fortunes9 fromNull greet isfree lib nixos option pkgs r rand random randomUpto rev select sphaleritesLanguage src typecheck updateFunction x
<infinisil>
joepie91: It looks the same to me, is it different for you?
<LnL>
my eyes
<__monty__>
Imo, making your colors readable in your responsibility. I always customize the blues and reds because the defaults are eyebleeding.
<__monty__>
*is
<gchristensen>
agreed __monty__
<gchristensen>
blue,brown,cyan,gray,green,lightred,magentn,ared,white all look good from here fwiw
<joepie91>
infinisil: looks the same to me, because it was a white BG before and presumably a forced-white BG now as well; but the problem is that the text colors don't contrast with that well
<joepie91>
hence my suggestion to do a forced-white bg *and* better contrasting text colors
<joepie91>
:p
<infinisil>
Hmm alright, I might experiment with it in #bottest
<joepie91>
you can also force black bg and pick appropriate colors, but in my experience black sections on white background are worse for readability than white sections on black background
<joepie91>
for colored text
<infinisil>
Oh you know what, the p function does a color reset before it starts printing, so the white background doesn't even apply
<infinisil>
> irc.bcolors.white + irc.colors.black + "Hello, I'm some black text on white background!" + irc.reset
<{^_^}>
",00Hello, I'm some black text on white background!"
<infinisil>
Whew, that's pretty bad on my terminal..
<infinisil>
Needs some tweaking
<infinisil>
> irc.bcolors.black + irc.colors.white + "Hello, I'm some white text on black background!" + irc.reset # Let's compare it to this though
<{^_^}>
",01Hello, I'm some white text on black background!"
<joepie91>
*bwaap bwaap bwaap*
<joepie91>
sad trombone :P
<joepie91>
anyway, sleep
<infinisil>
Night!
<joepie91>
night :)
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<andi->
colors on IRC... not sure that was a good invention