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<jD91mZM2>
sphalerite: Welp, I got transparency now yay. Updating st to 0.8.1 didn't help with the cursor issue sadly, nor did setting TERM to xterm-256color
<jD91mZM2>
ok nvm once again the cursor issue was because of tmux lol
<jD91mZM2>
Ok so because it shared terminal with Konsole a bunch of KONSOLE_ variables were set, causing neovim to think I was inside konsole
<jD91mZM2>
Only issue now is that st doesn't let me specify which shell to use because it uses my login shell. I need to make a wrapper that sets `-e` I guess
<jD91mZM2>
nvm when they said "utmp option", they just meant that variable. So the shell was configurable after all
<jD91mZM2>
What's your opinions on Grub vs systemd-boot?
<jD91mZM2>
nixos-generate-config chose systemd-boot for me, but if none is set grub seems to be the default
<jD91mZM2>
I guess the default is designed to support BIOS for legacy devices meanwhile nixos-generate-config is smart and detects EFI
<MichaelRaskin>
And then, GRUB2 works with EFI just fine…
<jD91mZM2>
I wonder why nixos-generate-config didn't disable systemd-boot's editor. The man pages say that it's dangerous and could be used to get root
<jD91mZM2>
Not that I see how somebody with physical access getting root on the computer is a problem. They could already just boot to a USB and chroot
<jD91mZM2>
By the way, does anybody here use full disk encryption?
<samueldr>
I use grub, I don't *prefer* it to systemd-boot, but when I had to make the choice, I chose grub
<samueldr>
especially since I still had one machine which booted using legacy boot a the time, I preferred having one bootloader
<samueldr>
though, grub has more features, if needed or desired, some more useful, some dumb like background image (and soon theming)
<jD91mZM2>
samueldr: OOoooooo theming is coming? That was actually one of my concerns when switching to NixOS. "They don't like me modifying root so where would I put theme files for grub" :P
<samueldr>
jD91mZM2: well, with grub for themes you could probably cheat a good deal
<jD91mZM2>
samueldr: Does full disk encryption require a USB for the key or would it be sane to put the keyfile on the same disk and rely on my master password being strong enough?
<samueldr>
though, always consider your attack surface
<samueldr>
do you have secrets people want?
<samueldr>
I don't, that's mostly in a case of lost and found or random act of stealing
<jD91mZM2>
Currently I don't have any kind of encryption what so ever and I never have, so that's why I have no idea how this stuff works
<jD91mZM2>
samueldr: I love your work on the bootloaders! They look AMAZING :D! Really sad rEFInd couldn't be used though
<jD91mZM2>
wait woah you're running NixOS on your tablet? Just saw the image
<samueldr>
jD91mZM2: any reason for rEFInd?
<samueldr>
ah, that's an intel atom tablet :) it's almost like a real computer
<samueldr>
(there are issues where the reference platform is cutting corners and software-controlling stuff, and drivers are missing for some extraneous stuff like cameras)
<jD91mZM2>
Well I mean I just like how rEFInd looks I guess :P
<samueldr>
it will still be present in the new installation images (unthemed), as an alternative for rescue purposes
<samueldr>
not only for nixos, but any recalcitrant platforms where the EFI is dumb, and booting an EFI bootloader on disk which isn't in the host machine's boot menu
<jD91mZM2>
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I never really bothered to customize my bootloader at all
<samueldr>
oh, I mean that some platforms (e.g. that tablet) will sometime do dumb stuff™ with the EFI
<jD91mZM2>
Alright
<samueldr>
that particular one will, in some extenuating cases, lose all EFI settings, including the bootloader configurations
<samueldr>
and it is not possible to add or boot manually an EFI program
<samueldr>
so if it's not installed as the default name, (/EFI/boot/bootx64.ef IIRC) it will just fail to boot
<samueldr>
rEFInd can scan the ESP and boot anything in there
<jD91mZM2>
That's pretty good! Is that also the reason rEFInd can't be used for an installed system - because it doesn't let you choose generation?
<samueldr>
only because nobody wrote an implementation in the module system, but yes
<samueldr>
I intend, for completeness, to look into making it possible
<jD91mZM2>
I like your dedication :)
<gchristensen>
OMG grub supports morse code for output, using the pc speaker
<simpson>
Ha, nice. I can imagine the conversation that led to that. Delightful.
<gchristensen>
whatever it was, it was a nightmare situation
<Synthetica>
That, or someone thought "I have a week off, you know what would be neat?"
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<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: well, a screen reader wouldn't fit on some systems…
<andi->
I am awaiting the day when grub comes with a browser..
<MichaelRaskin>
And a file browser doesn't count?
<andi->
well it must support whatever current version of javascript and HTML
<MichaelRaskin>
You know this requirement is realistically impossible satisfy regardless of the platform?
<andi->
yes
<andi->
I also do not seriously want that.
<andi->
That day I'd be looking into something like implementing /boot crypto in something like systemd-boot
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, I might like that «support whatever current version of JavaScript and HTML» would not be a requirement that no software tool is ever going to satisfy…
<MichaelRaskin>
(no, saying «previous version» will not make it satisfiable in the real world)
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<jD91mZM2>
Okay so I tried installing grub & the plasma-grub package, but sadly the theme didn't apply
<jD91mZM2>
breeze-grub*, sorry
<jD91mZM2>
Might have installed it before grub itself so if there's a setup hook that does magic that would explain why
<samueldr>
I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to recall that there's no way to make it work. It's packaged, but the grub options in nixos don't have options for themes
<samueldr>
and my PR isn't using the modules system
<samueldr>
so, it looks like grub-breeze is there only because it's a list of all official packages
<jD91mZM2>
Wait what, what is the ISO using?
<samueldr>
systemd-boot for efi, syslinux for legacy
<jD91mZM2>
oh
<samueldr>
and for my PR, grub2, but with a manual configuration
<samueldr>
(like it was for systemd-boot)
<jD91mZM2>
Aww
<jD91mZM2>
I was hoping that even if I couldn't get a custom theme breeze-grub would still do something magical behind the scenes
<samueldr>
you can get a background image though, it goes a long way
<jD91mZM2>
"It must be a 640x480, 14-colour image in XPM format"
<jD91mZM2>
and then the example shows a PNG file
<samueldr>
it's a lie
<samueldr>
there's an issue open :)
<samueldr>
forgot about it
<samueldr>
that's from when the option supported grub 1 only
<jD91mZM2>
Okay. Are JPEGs supported?
<samueldr>
I wouldn't bet on it, but possibly
<samueldr>
it needs to be supported by grub
<samueldr>
Set a background image for use with the ‘gfxterm’ graphical terminal. The value of this option must be a file readable by GRUB at boot time, and it must end with .png, .tga, .jpg, or .jpeg. The image will be scaled if necessary to fit the screen.
<samueldr>
though, I'm not 100% confident it'll work
<jD91mZM2>
Probably not. Ugh I hate rebooting
<jD91mZM2>
But sadly build-vm-with-bootloader doesn't work. Can't see any errors, but it fails
<samueldr>
(I know it exists, never looked into it)
<jD91mZM2>
Oh ok so I just checked in grub.cfg and the background is just copied to /boot/background.png
<jD91mZM2>
So if it's called .png but a jpeg I'm guessing it gets confused
<samueldr>
oh, that would be an issue :/
<samueldr>
if you look at the file, does it look fine?
<samueldr>
I mean, is it even there?
<jD91mZM2>
In mpv, yes
<jD91mZM2>
In termplay, "invalid signature". Guessing that's the .png error thing
<jD91mZM2>
Yeah copy pasting it to a .jpg destination and opening that works
<jD91mZM2>
and here is where I stop because I hate rebooting more than I love making stuff look good
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<nick_l>
joepie91: if something is not the best in the world and buying something else does not cost much more, it's "shit".
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<nick_l>
joepie91: why would I want to annoy my life with broken hardware/software combinations when I can also use something that does work?
<nick_l>
joepie91: defending broken Intel hardware is not ethical, IMHO.
<joepie91>
[21:53] <nick_l> joepie91: if something is not the best in the world and buying something else does not cost much more, it's "shit".
<joepie91>
no, it's not.
<joepie91>
it can be a bad choice, sure, but that is a far cry from "shit"
<nick_l>
joepie91: do you want me to prefix everything with "It's my opinion that".
<joepie91>
"shit", in fact, is a measure of quality, and is therefore not even related to what you pay for it
<nick_l>
joepie91: there are no such things as "facts".
<joepie91>
it'd still be wrong :P
<jcrben>
I think joe is also reflecting on the fact that how we use language matters. and nix is trying to be a welcoming/inclusive open-source community
<nick_l>
Inclusive?
<nick_l>
That's the most terrible word in the English language.
<nick_l>
It has ruined every open-source community that has accepted it.
<joepie91>
nick_l: okay, so I'm going to try and say this as politely as I can before I get less polite about it: your habit to talk down on seemingly absolutely everything without any indication of serious thought being put into it, and of focusing on the problems rather than on how to solve them, and then trying to defend that with pseudo-nihilist claims like "there are no such things as facts", is not welcome in this community
<joepie91>
I am all for constructive criticism; what I'm *not* for is pointlessly complaining about things
<nick_l>
joepie91: It is problem solving to not use broken hardware in the first place.
<joepie91>
no, that is problem avoidance.
<nick_l>
joepie91: I am not an Intel employee.
<joepie91>
and if you want to avoid the problem by not using certain hardware, go right ahead, that's your choice.
<joepie91>
but don't destroy the atmosphere of the community with it by bothering others with it.\
* infinisil
grabs popcorn
<nick_l>
joepie91: in fact, I have reported Intel hardware bugs.
<nick_l>
joepie91: have you?
<joepie91>
great! keep doing that.
<joepie91>
but that does not excuse your behaviour in here.
<nick_l>
joepie91: well, have you?
<joepie91>
how is this a relevant question? I'm discussing *your* behaviour here, not mine.
<nick_l>
joepie91: I can also discuss your behaviour.
<nick_l>
joepie91: who are you to discuss my behaviour?
<joepie91>
I'm sure you can, but trying to deflect a reasonably polite notice that your behaviour is unacceptable by attacking the person giving it to you... is not something that's going to help your standing in the community
<jcrben>
nick_l: keep in mind that there are a lot of open-source programmers working on making Intel drivers
<joepie91>
regardless of who it is you're attacking.
<nick_l>
joepie91: all I have said is that it is my opinion that if something isn't the best in the world and that there are alternatives available that it is "shit".
<joepie91>
nick_l: great, and all I have said is that your attitude of uncontrolled complaints about seemingly absolutely everything is not welcome here.
<simpson>
joepie91: Relax already. Facts are social constructs.
<jcrben>
nick_l: and some of those people might be in the nixos community, and if they're not, they should feel welcome
<joepie91>
nick_l: what you do in your own time and place is your business, but that does not mean that you get to control the discourse of an entire community.
<joepie91>
or 'dominate' rather than 'control', really.
<nick_l>
joepie91: the community sounds like a group of 500 people.
<simpson>
Further, there's this great saying, Sturgeon's Law...
<nick_l>
joepie91: I see 3 people here.
<joepie91>
nick_l: I don't see how this observation is relevant.
<nick_l>
joepie91: that might be a problem.
<nick_l>
joepie91: can you please articulate an argument based in reality?
<joepie91>
nick_l: and if you continue trying to excuse your behaviour rather than accepting the notice you've been given and trying to do better, then I'm going to leave it to channel ops to deal with this further.
<joepie91>
because right now, you're very clearly not acting in good faith.
<simpson>
Oh, wait, is this #nixos behavior policing?
<simpson>
Yes, shame on you for talking in #nixos! Whoever you are.
* simpson
mostly joking?
<nick_l>
jcrben: the notion that open-source programmers might feel offended, because their stuff doesn't work. Are you serious?
<nick_l>
jcrben: are you a Russian troll?
<simpson>
nick_l: Many people have this strange attachment to their code which is so strong that they can't separate judgements about the code from judgements about themselves.
<simpson>
It's very unfortunate, but we don't have a rehab system for it yet~
<nick_l>
There are all kinds of reasons why code might be broken. One of them might be a lack of funding.
<nick_l>
One of them might be because consumers don't know the difference between well designed systems and broken systems.
<jcrben>
simpson: something similar could be said about pretty much anything that a person crafts
<simpson>
The typical reason is because humans are terrible at writing code. This isn't because humans are bad people, but because writing code is absurdly difficult.
<joepie91>
jcrben: most things people craft aren't critical shared infra though :)
<nick_l>
I think writing code is easy, but I am not a normal person.
<simpson>
jcrben: Correct! People are entitled only to the effort, not the outcome.
<infinisil>
nick_l: Lol
<nick_l>
Also depends on what I am doing, though.
<joepie91>
jcrben: (and those that are typically have certifications attached)
<nick_l>
There are difficult things, but not in most jobs.
<jcrben>
I do have a serious problem with the lack of a CI and regression testing culture in the linux world tho
<joepie91>
nick_l: writing code is easy, writing *correct and reliable* code is not.
<nick_l>
joepie91: I do that for a living.
<joepie91>
(and that largely comes down to tooling problems)
<jcrben>
that's one of the things that nixos is getting right
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nick_l was kicked from #nixos-chat by gchristensen [nick_l]
<joepie91>
jcrben: oh, there are many more problems than that, but it's something that needs to be addressed constructively rather than just complaintively (is that a word?)
<joepie91>
ie. argue about how to fix it, not about how it's broken L:P
<joepie91>
:P*
<gchristensen>
nick_l has demonstrated a pattern of abuse and is quite extreme in PMs as well
<simpson>
joepie91: FWIW if a community cannot discuss how things are broken, then the community's discussion process is meta-broken. It's something worth examining and keeping in mind.
<joepie91>
simpson: sure, but it's about the *goal* of that discussion; discussing how things are broken should happen with the goal of figuring out how to fix them, not with the goal of just complaining
<jcrben>
sometimes all you have time to do is complain...
<jcrben>
(or skill - that's even more common)
<joepie91>
simpson: that doesn't mean that you can't point out recurring issues for example, or even that you can't use strong wording; so long as it's in an attempt to improving it
<joepie91>
otherwise it's just nonconstructive demotivating noise
<infinisil>
If he would've asked how he can make hie work on NixOS I could've told him..
<infinisil>
But he didn't
<gchristensen>
simpson: fwiw that person has other problems beyond just discussing how things are broken, I think you know we are able to talk about problems
<joepie91>
jcrben: sure, but when somebody takes the time to sit around for an hour talking about how 6 different things are "totally shit", that's not indicative of time constraints :P
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess it's all the balance… Technical content, politeness to humans, demonstrated collaboration with this community, something should be there.
<gchristensen>
you should see their PMs about me :)
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: 'good faith', mostly, although that's fuzzy to determine as a third party of course
<gchristensen>
there is "politeness" and there is "down right aggressive"
<samueldr>
tone, the tone at which you whine can somtimes make it more tolerable!
<jcrben>
joepie91: and from the sounds of it, skill wasn't lacking either
<joepie91>
jcrben: at least not in their perception. whether they were actually skilled, I don't know
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: well, the signs are list are more or less observable and they do correlate with good faith
<joepie91>
jcrben: I do find that "extremely loud about everything being shit while claiming to be skilled" tends to correlate strongly with "dunning-kruger effect"
<joepie91>
in particular when little substance is presented upfront
<joepie91>
that's not universal of course, but it does happen a lot
<joepie91>
especially when people underestimate the complexity of solving something correctly
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: I admit my rants about systemd are usually not in good faith towards systemd…
<gchristensen>
there is a notable difference
<samueldr>
neat, alacritty changed its settings when I saved its config file :)
<simpson>
joepie91, gchristensen: I'm a little bemused TBH; I think that there's a drastic difference between somebody who slings insults everywhere, and a dog like myself who is uncomfortably honest.
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: my systemd-related ranting is usually half venting, half constructive effort (mostly to explain to people how to avoid the mistakes that systemd makes, because the systemd maintainers have shown not to be receptive to constructive criticism)
<joepie91>
simpson: sure; that's why I've not complained about your behaviour :P
<gchristensen>
simpson: I wasn't saying you were like nick_l
<simpson>
I'm saying that I'm far worse~
<MichaelRaskin>
Mine usually include explanations why the hell just writing bootscripts manually can be less frustrating (and why I do the things the way I do them)
<infinisil>
samueldr: That is really need indeed! It doesn't always work for me for some reason though
<infinisil>
neat*
<joepie91>
simpson: heh, I definitely would not agree with that
<MichaelRaskin>
simpson: track record of contributions to community
<gchristensen>
simpson: strong disagreement
<MichaelRaskin>
And no insults to humans present
<samueldr>
and alacritty does support double/triple click selections, using kitty was driving me crazy, I didn't know how much I relied on that
<simpson>
No worries. 'Disagree and commit,' as the kids are saying. (Kids say the darndest things.)
<gchristensen>
joepie91: out of curiosity, do you still have those PMs from foobar__?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: yeah
<joepie91>
gchristensen: need a pastebin?
<gchristensen>
mm not right now, but maybe later? :)
<joepie91>
gchristensen: sure, just ping me when you need them
<infinisil>
What was it with foobar__?
<joepie91>
speak of the devil
<joepie91>
I'm now getting PMs from nick_l
<joepie91>
or well, PM, singular
<gchristensen>
hehe
<infinisil>
joepie91: Ignore and move on
<infinisil>
imo
<joepie91>
oh yeah, sure
<MichaelRaskin>
infinisil: passing up on lulz??
<infinisil>
It's hard to resist but the right thing to do!
<joepie91>
shrug, this guy isn't even a good troll
<joepie91>
if I want lulz, there are better trolls
<joepie91>
:)
<MichaelRaskin>
That's true. Even I strive to be a better troll…
<jcrben>
I've been editing Wikipedia for over a decade, so I'm pretty used to trolls
<jcrben>
but Wikipedia suffers from the infectiousness of uncivility: long-term contributors are often awful to each other, and it's a really depressing place
<simpson>
No kidding. I quit editing after about 2yrs. I couldn't take it.
<simpson>
Dunno if my favorite time was being called an 'enabler' and 'lawyer' for trying to stop a mass deletion, or being told that my religious beliefs were a joke. What a place.
<infinisil>
I've seen a CS professor having very strong opinions about his wiki article, he would get annoyed if anybody put in any criticism of his work, and his most popular software totally failed..
<gchristensen>
I like this community
<jcrben>
I recently got one of the most prolific long-term contributors in one of my areas (law) to take a break. nice guy in real life, but everything was "nonsense", everyone was a "troll", and weird grammar was "Engrish"
<jcrben>
"<nick_l> If you use the word "inclusive", you are politically leftish, which means that deep down you want to eliminate the intellectual elite."
<gchristensen>
they're PMing you, too?
<gchristensen>
are they declaring I should be in a mental hospital yet?
<jcrben>
that just happened
<jcrben>
not really responding, he's in a monologue
<gchristensen>
yeah. also they're watching this chat :)
<jcrben>
given his programming skills, I imagine he's written a script
<simpson>
Oh right, I got chosen to lead a coup. So, I guess, coup on? But that sounds like effort, and I am out of gumption.
<samueldr>
wouldn't theatre be more apt for scripts?
<MichaelRaskin>
And people wonder why Wikipedia bleeds enagement, when old stuff has _complicated_ standards to follow, and new stuff is Not Notable and eligible for deletion.
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<MichaelRaskin>
(I actually don't like quota-based inclusivity, but somehow of all things wrong with processes, Nix* never seems to have inclusivity gone wrong. Maybe «inclusivity gone wrong» requires coordinated action on a polarised issue? That would protect us for a long time…)
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, you might measure inclusivity by «don't ever insist on an answer to personal question, don't attack personalities, stop using a triggering expression when asked by a human»
<MichaelRaskin>
Or you could measure inclusivity by «we need 25% of committers to have no Y chromosome by next month»
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<jcrben>
I don't think anyone really advocates for the latter
<MichaelRaskin>
Definitely not here.
<jcrben>
(directly) - the idea is that good docs and having a friendly channel for newcomers makes a community inclusive
<gchristensen>
definitely
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<MichaelRaskin>
We are actually quite eltitist where it has to be so (and I support it). I mean, learning the Nix language quite early is expected of users, and if someone asks «why Nix» and is not impressed by «atomic updates, atomic rollbacks, much reduced package-conflict area» we say «goodbye then» (a bit more politely)
<jcrben>
MichaelRaskin: I agree altho don't support the elitism, and I think it's counterproductive long-term. possibly somewhat helpful at this stage however since it limits the number of who are just going to need help but not contribute
<jcrben>
but it also limits the network effect, which reduces interest from people who would contribute and creates less work for everyone.
<samueldr>
I feel like the elitism is more implicit than explicit though
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, right now using contributions is a problem comparable with getting contributions
<samueldr>
more like it's an extenuating consequence of how it works and not built to make elitism work
<samueldr>
dunno if it made sense
<gchristensen>
yeah
<gchristensen>
the lack of a smooth "onboarding" process is inherently excluding
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't think I know many cases of technical design aimed at getting elitism as the outcome
<samueldr>
no time to fix onboarding when we're fixing "shit" ;)
<MichaelRaskin>
Current bottleneck: merging PRs. Onboarding shifts the experience distribution in a way that will finally and completely bury the project.
<MichaelRaskin>
Unfortunately, I don't have a good idea on the proper way to implement automated tests for Nixpkgs (NixOS tests are annoying to debug, so we won't have enough for covering Nixpkgs)
<jcrben>
I would kinda like to see more of a culture of separate channels and binary caches? I had over a dozen homebrew "taps"
<MichaelRaskin>
Looking at glibc updates… not sure
<jcrben>
one thing is that there's 3 manuals, and none of them are really targeted at beginners
<MichaelRaskin>
jcrben: skimming a packager manual teaches you to read basic packages, and I am not sure it is honest to attract users who wouldn't be able to read Nix packages… «code cannot lie the way documentation does» and all that
<jcrben>
MichaelRaskin: I would point beginners to nix-pills, absolutely
<jcrben>
there's not much point in using nix unless you're willing to learn the language and how to package
<samueldr>
I think it all points towards one thing: developer users vs. non-developer users
<samueldr>
there's no real way to onboard tinkerers, power users and such on nixos when the basic cases fail :/
<samueldr>
and it's a hard problem to solve
<MichaelRaskin>
There are different kinds of power users… for the less advanced, the problem is not that we cannot onboard them, the problem is that the value Nix provides is not targeting them.
<jcrben>
probably easiest to focus on the developers first. I had a really tough onboarding experience as a developer running mac - which is really common in SF
<simpson>
Easier said than done.
<jcrben>
first I actually spent hours debugging the code (using nix trace mostly) to understand why firefox wasn't showing (unfree)
<jcrben>
actually not unfree, isn't on the platform...
<samueldr>
it may be an idea to collect *long~ish time user*'s thoughts on nixos with regard to their initial experience
<jcrben>
then I read all the manuals and nix-pills once, because I couldn't find a general tutorial. then I read them again, because now they made more sense
<samueldr>
1+ years
<samueldr>
hah, it's been exactly 1 year as main system for me
<infinisil>
About the same for me
<infinisil>
I seem to always forget how I got started with a technology
<infinisil>
I have no idea how I learned nix so well
<infinisil>
A big part was just asking here though :)
<jcrben>
do you use a laptop? trying to adjust from the great touchpad experience on a macbook
<samueldr>
(I switched all my computers to nixos one week-end, noted the date)
<samueldr>
I try not to use my laptop input hardware :)
<jcrben>
also still need to rewrite my launch daemons, and a few things that I get with homebrew need to be packaged. prolly need to do all my vscode extensions with nix... lots of work
<infinisil>
Ugh, mac launch daemon stuff is horrible, I'm glad I don't need to do this anymore
<gchristensen>
nix-darwin makes that stuff nicer
<infinisil>
Yeah, unfortunately I have abandoned macOS before I discovered that
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<sphalerite>
well looks like some interesting stuff happened today :p
<infinisil>
pb
<infinisil>
(ignore that)
<samueldr>
I am LEAD to believe it was a mistake
<infinisil>
You are correct (I wanted to do /pb which is my alias for IRC playback)
<sphalerite>
samueldr: hah
<samueldr>
no good deed goes unpunished... looking into why grub doesn't load jpegs
<samueldr>
(as noted by a user earlier today)
<infinisil>
Found that out too at some point, but why bother?
<samueldr>
only error I get is "error: invalid argument" :/
<samueldr>
infinisil: because I'm fixing the documentation for the `splashImage` option
<samueldr>
infinisil: you found out, so why?
<infinisil>
Heh
<samueldr>
and grub says it can take png, jpg et tga, so I'm testing to make sure the our documentation doesn't transitively lies
<samueldr>
I did add `insmod jpeg` and it is loaded
<infinisil>
Hmm true
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<mudri[m]>
Linus: Is this new, BTW?
<sphalerite>
Yeah it's not been around for very long
<sphalerite>
maybe a month or two?
<mudri[m]>
Just reminds me how little I've been on IRC this whole time.
<sphalerite>
Also, my mark was less disappointing than I thought it might be :D
<sphalerite>
I certainly feel I could have done better, but hey
<samueldr>
since ~march this is opened AFAICT
<samueldr>
well, advertised, let's say
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<sphalerite>
ah yes, first of March according to ChanServ
<mudri[m]>
That course looks like quite a time-sink.
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<sphalerite>
I don't think I've spent much more time on it than on other classes
<sphalerite>
and I think my marks in the other classes will be similar
<sphalerite>
There's a lot more room to get more marks with proportional effort though, I think
<mudri[m]>
Conor's rather proud (/full of himself) about the high average mark, justified by comparing to CS407.
<sphalerite>
hehe
<sphalerite>
it's the only Conor class where I haven't got 100% :p
<sphalerite>
I was very proud of myself when he tweeted about me back in first year
<mudri[m]>
I think the only first year student he tweeted about this year was the guy who got an exemption and still turned up to the exam.
<mudri[m]>
I feel as if I remember this tweet. I definitely remember the question, though. :-D
<sphalerite>
:D
<sphalerite>
What do you actually do? I feel like there's a lot of interesting but also scary stuff going on in that room on L13 in general, when it's not being beleaguered by us undergrads panicking about CS410
<mudri[m]>
Is it weird that I remember test questions I never had anything to do with better than those I did?
<sphalerite>
no. I think I'll remember that question Conor tweeted the other day better than others
<sphalerite>
the one about various (completely fictional, obviously) characters and their private/public opinions on matters
<mudri[m]>
MSP's a slightly odd group. There's me, Stewart, and Ben supervised by Bob and Conor doing type theory stuff, then there's everyone else doing random applied category theory (quantum computing and economic game theory, mostly).
<mudri[m]>
I do stuff with resources (related to linear types).
<sphalerite>
oooh yeah that stuff is cool. I watched a talk about ATS the other day, which makes it look simultaneously really cool but also like something you'd never want to actually have to use
<mudri[m]>
ATS scares me, but it's probably an unreasonable fear.
<mudri[m]>
I just want everything to be Agda but nicer, to be honest. :-P
<sphalerite>
well given the content of the talk I think the fear isn't unreasonable at all
<sphalerite>
At least as far as the syntax is concerned. I think the principles aren't too bad, and I don't even know much about this stuff (which I'm guessing you do)
<mudri[m]>
He uses linearity to show that all the List KEY -> List KEY functions in a DSL are permutations.
<mudri[m]>
We're also wanting to get stuff like all functions being monotonic in some language.
<sphalerite>
yay, I understand the stuff up to line 59! I'll need to think a bit more about the rest :p
<mudri[m]>
Some of it's quite difficult to read, particularly the logical predicate at the end (and particularly if you're not that familiar with logical relations, like me).
<mudri[m]>
The language also uses co-de Bruijn indices, which are even harder to read than de Bruijn indices.
<samueldr>
GOT IT, grub can't use progressive jpegs :/
<mudri[m]>
(This may also be the point where I bitch about ASCII Agda.)
* sphalerite
likes the idea of not presenting code as plain text to the user
<sphalerite>
Which I guess agda mode does to some extent