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<adisbladis[m]>
MichaelRaskin: For security.. Or something
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<andi->
adisbladis[m]: usually you have to communicate to a reasonable intelligent switch that you are going to to bonding (802.3ad) before it actually does bonding. PXE is usually a) without bonding b) without any kind of VLAN tags if those are required in your environment
<andi->
argh meant adamt
<andi->
sorry adisbladis[m]
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<sphalerite>
jD91mZM2: are you not a native speaker of English? (wondering since you didn't know what reluctant means, but seem to be very good at English in general)
<jD91mZM2>
sphalerite: Nope, I'm from Sweden :)
<sphalerite>
oh neat. My family lives in Sweden
<jD91mZM2>
etu: adisbladis: Okay guys we have an almost-swede here! We can start taking over the IRC channel soon enough!
<sphalerite>
lol
<capisce>
50 % Swede here
<jD91mZM2>
Soon I'll have to write you all down :^)
<sphalerite>
I think joepie91 has some relationship to Sweden as well?
<sphalerite>
not sure though
<sphalerite>
and FRidh too, although he's not in here
<jD91mZM2>
That's a lot of Swedes
<jD91mZM2>
I guess that's pretty... Sweede. ba dum tss (Sweet? get it?)
<jD91mZM2>
Don't hate me, I tried, okay
<joepie91>
sphalerite: nah, just my first name is an originally Swedish name (Sven) but it's very common in NL
<joepie91>
not otherwise related to Sweden :)
<jD91mZM2>
We shall mourn over our fallen solider
<sphalerite>
maybe I was just confusing you with FRidh then
<adisbladis[m]>
jD91mZM2: But I'm not living in sweden.. I won't be a part of any annexation!
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<adamt>
Maybe you would have more luck with a scandinavian takeover, instead of only wanting swedes for your cause
<adisbladis[m]>
adamt: Good point
<jD91mZM2>
Sounds good! We'll need one unified language for all scandinavian countries though
<jD91mZM2>
I'm thinking English, since most of us already know it
<jD91mZM2>
So we take over these channels and make them Engli- wait
<sphalerite>
not sure the Finns would be too pleased about that, we've got quite a few of them too. Maybe it should be a nordic thing
<jD91mZM2>
What if we just accept the entire world
<sphalerite>
a large portion of the community is German as well, so maybe they should be included too
<jD91mZM2>
The whole world will take over these channels and speak Engli-
<jD91mZM2>
wait guys i messed up
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<manveru>
damn, i only speak austrian :P
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<joepie91>
tilpner: reported broken pad to $friend
<joepie91>
tilpner: __monty__: anyway, with the exception of applications that are either primarily computation-based or have extremely low latency requirements, it's totally possible to build a responsive-feeling thing in a browser; it's just that not enough people do
<tilpner>
joepie91 - Even if it is a decent client, I still need to host my own HS to fully take advantage of Matrix
<joepie91>
(and there's a very good reason to build this as a browser thing; there's no UI toolkit that comes anywhere close in terms of ease of use and speed of development, because all currently existing native UI toolkits for desktop OSes are terrible in various ways)
<tilpner>
joepie91 - Which is difficult with the current Synapse, due it being a very dangerous memory predator
<joepie91>
yeah, homeserver daemons are still junk from what I've gathered
<__monty__>
joepie91: I think you, like most web devs just live on too recent a generation of development machines. Computers that are a couple or 10 years old are just not up to the task.
<joepie91>
__monty__: I've used outdated hardware for most of my developer life
<joepie91>
I still regularly test my things on outdated hardware
<__monty__>
Maybe point me to some decent webapps then?
<joepie91>
to the point that I've worked on some PoCs a few years ago that ran perfectly fine on a Pentium 3 1.1GHz laptop with 384MB RAM :)
<tilpner>
I won't question that there are web-apps that run just fine on my old netbook
<joepie91>
__monty__: Neo should already be pretty close, unless $friend has added performance-killing stuff in the meantime; I'm working on a few things that aren't running in prod yet but meet that criterium; I don't recall others from memory
<tilpner>
That's why I went straight for the cryptpad :/
<joepie91>
yeah, will ping you when it's back up
<tilpner>
Thanks! :)
<manveru>
jabber? :)
<manveru>
oh god, jitsi fonts look like hell :|
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<joepie91>
__monty__: one of the PoCs I worked on a few years ago that ran fine on said Pentium III: http://cryto.net/projects/jsde/demo/ -- it's a bit buggy now because browsers have changed their selection behaviour, and this predates user-select
<joepie91>
I think that one doesn't even have the debouncing optimization yet
<joepie91>
dragging stuff around is often considered to be something you can't do performantly in a browser :P
<joepie91>
it also predates widespread `transform` support, which is why it blanks out the window content while dragging
<joepie91>
to prevent layout reflows
<joepie91>
(with transform, this isn't necessary anymore)
<gchristensen>
I seriously need to try shlevy's /-is-a-tmpfs thing, my /home/ becomes such a garbage heap over time
<__monty__>
Does neo work with a guest account?
<infinisil>
gchristensen: What's that?
<gchristensen>
infinisil: his / is a tmpfs so on every reboot any accumulated state which hasn't been "blessed" as a stateful, persisting mount-point, will be erased
<infinisil>
Interesting
<gchristensen>
in his case /home/shlevy is tmpfs too, and XDG_* variables point to stateful places
<infinisil>
Oh, very nice
<tilpner>
joepie91 - That doesn't load here
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<tilpner>
(It gets to a logo and a spinning icon, but stays there)
<gchristensen>
this is ideal because it would mean I would no longer have 35 directories and files named test test2 test22 testfoo foo foobar bar baz barbar
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<infinisil>
gchristensen: In your ~?
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<adamt>
Oh the joy of being only through company vpn while people are doing network maintenance. Can't be recommended.
<infinisil>
gchristensen: I have this shell function for that: `mktest() { mkdir -p "$HOME/test/$1"; cd "$HOME/test/$1"; }`. So my ~ stays more or less clean from test stuff
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<adamt>
gchristensen: How is that / as tmpfs done? I mean, in theory it's easy enough, except for the need to create the required dirs before mounts are being done
<joepie91>
__monty__: no idea
<joepie91>
tilpner: hm, same here, but it works for $friend
<joepie91>
__monty__: it's definitely a work-in-progress, mind :P
<gchristensen>
adamt: just the mount for / is a tmpfs, a separate mount for /nix/store etc.
<adamt>
gchristensen: Yeah, but does it work if you in the equivalent of /etc/fstab specifies a mountpoint that doesn't exist?
<__monty__>
joepie91: Not registering an account just to check something out I probably won't use. Performant web apps being theoretically possible doesn't mean much to me, every single one I've tried/had to use has been terrible. Terminals are terrible in their own way but I far prefer their limitations to those of web apps.
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: the first thing I do in many a shell session is `cd /tmp` :D
<gchristensen>
adamt: I don't know? all I know is what shlevy does works :)
<gchristensen>
EU friends, are there any cool things going on around the end of June I should go to?
<adamt>
gchristensen: I'm just curious because it's sounds like a great idea. Although he could also just mount / read-only, along with most others (except stuff like /var).
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<joepie91>
__monty__: shrug, free to make that decision of course, just saying that web apps being terrible isn't because they're web apps :) which is pretty important when you consider that the actual issues won't be addressed if people largely have an incorrect idea of the cause
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<joepie91>
also, I've found poorly-performing webapps to exist particularly for commercial services
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<joepie91>
startups especially
<__monty__>
If 10 out of every 10 web apps I run into are terrible then the possibility of web apps not being terrible is irrelevant. I have nothing against web apps on principle (except security) and I wish most of them were great.
<sphalerite>
adamt: I'm guessing there are activation scripts or something to create the mount points.
<sphalerite>
Anybody know a fairly simple audio editing tool that doesn't constantly crash *cough audacity cough*
<joepie91>
__monty__: fair enough :)
<sphalerite>
There's stuff like Ardour but it has sooooo many buttons and stuff that I don't need, audacity already goes far beyond what I want in functionality (but not in stability)
<__monty__>
joepie91: Your demo is pretty cool but i'm skeptical it'd still be as performant if it actually did something useful.
<joepie91>
__monty__: there's no reason for it to become less performant; the primary reason for poor performance in webapps is event loop latency, and unless you're actively clogging the event loop - which you shouldn't be doing in most applications - it wouldn't have any effect on eg. the dragging performance
<joepie91>
since almost all event loop load is a result of user interaction, and if you're dragging a window then you're not doing other things that cause load
<joepie91>
(barely anybody actually profiles this shit, which is why event loop latency is such a common issue)
<MichaelRaskin>
«startups» — well, the current advertised approach is that «the app working is a luxury until you get traction»
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: yeah, that :/
<MichaelRaskin>
Working well? We-ell, maybe once you have a clear path to monetisation
<joepie91>
__monty__: I will eventually(tm) have a more real-world example based on this, but that's still a work in progress