<elvishjerricco>
gchristensen: What does the second word on each line in the history files at https://channels.nix.gsc.io/ mean?
<elvishjerricco>
Derp, that's a time stamp. Cool
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<gchristensen>
:)
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<infinisil>
I got myself one of them Unifi AP's for my home network
<gchristensen>
nice!
<infinisil>
However, the speed is terrible through walls
<infinisil>
I got the long range version in the hopes of it being better for this, but i might have been wrong in that assumption
<infinisil>
5Ghz doesn't even go where I need it, and 2Ghz does, but the speed is disappointing
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<gchristensen>
you can boost the broadcast signal iirc
<infinisil>
Soo... I'm thinking about either returning it and getting a pro version, or trying to mess with the setting some more, or just using the old router router with builtin wlan that does much better..
<samueldr>
infinisil: I'v read the orientation of the device is important for those
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<samueldr>
e.g. those that are meant to be mounted from the ceiling have to be mounted to the ceiling to operate right
<infinisil>
Ohh, I'll try that, thanks, it's currently lying on a surface
<drakonis>
i'm having doubts about running nixos again
<drakonis>
rip
<infinisil>
gchristensen: do you know what the setting is called?
<infinisil>
gchristensen: ah yeah, tried that, but it didn't make any noticeable difference
<gchristensen>
ah
<drakonis>
i need to run things that nixos gets in the way
<drakonis>
be back in a minute
<infinisil>
I did get about 100-200Mbps *right* next to the AP with an explicit 5Ghz SSID, but this went to 0 a couple (wooden) walls away
<gchristensen>
hrm
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<infinisil>
Maybe the pro version would be better for obstacles
<infinisil>
But I'll try mounting it on a wall first
<gchristensen>
my house's walls are made of plaster and lath
<gchristensen>
which means there is a literal faraday cage going on
<sphalerite>
lath?
* sphalerite
did not know this word
<samueldr>
gchristensen: the type with wire mesh I guess, that must be hell
<gchristensen>
yeah it is literally chicken wire, plaster, and like horse hair or something
<samueldr>
don't diss the horse hair, it's apparently what's still in use in all plasters
<samueldr>
:)
<sphalerite>
huh
<gchristensen>
so in order for me to get good wifi around I have to put APs all over the place
* sphalerite
does not know many things about building materials
<samueldr>
north america, and even within, is so much different than elsewhere, parallel evolution mainly
<gchristensen>
I didn't know many things about plaster and lath until I had to invest a load of money in APs :P
<sphalerite>
If I ever buy a house or flat, having ethernet to all the rooms will be a major criterion :p
<gchristensen>
it is a right bear to put a hole in, too.
<gchristensen>
the house is old enough that its annoying to do install ethernet in to walls
<gchristensen>
several of my APs are just on top of the ceiling, in the attic, facing down, and that seems to work okay
<sphalerite>
my parents moved into a newly built house a couple of years ago. Has ethernet to all the rooms except the kitchen and bathrooms (makes sense) and… the living room.
<sphalerite>
So most of our permanent machines are connected via ethernet to the walls, but the media centre box attached to the TV connects through wifi, and that's been a pain throughout >_>
<gchristensen>
yeah, its all trade-offs and ethernet vs. wifi is a tough one
<gchristensen>
the problem with ethernet jacks is they're never where you want them
<sphalerite>
they mostly are in my parents' house, just not in the one room
<infinisil>
gchristensen: The problem I'm having is that I don't have ethernet throughout the house..
<infinisil>
So we have these powerline things that use the power line for ethernet
<infinisil>
But they are terribly unreliable (maybe it's just this specific product though, I could try a different one)
<infinisil>
So I thought maybe it could work with a strong enough wifi from the router throughout the whole house
<sphalerite>
infinisil: powerline works well for me
<gchristensen>
those are terrible here too
<jD91mZM2>
btw that's why I haven't tried NixOS on my RPI yet. I don't have another ethernet cable in my room and WiFi is broken according to the wiki
<gchristensen>
I run it all through the attic
<infinisil>
Yeah I'm hearing that of lots of people, for some reason the internet gods don't think much of my lowly housing
<gchristensen>
the power line stuff doesn't work through breakers and power strips iirc
<sphalerite>
yeah I have mine all plugged straight into the wall
<infinisil>
I mean
<infinisil>
It's mostly working okay
<infinisil>
But there are times when they completely fail
<infinisil>
Or maybe it's the router itself
<sphalerite>
I've had that once or twice, but that's over the space of 3 years so I'm not complaining :D
<infinisil>
I should just move out already and get an apartment with fiber and ethernet throughout
<infinisil>
Still living with my parents hah
<gchristensen>
wish I could do that
<infinisil>
Live with your parents? :P
<gchristensen>
well no not exactly, but the fiber :)
<gchristensen>
some nearby neighborhoods here can't get better than dialup
<infinisil>
dialup is how fast?
<sphalerite>
56k?
<gchristensen>
yeah
<Drakonis[m]>
gchristensen: the nix developer story still needs massive improvements
<gchristensen>
I agree
<Drakonis[m]>
nixos actually
<Drakonis[m]>
the deployment story is top tier
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<infinisil>
Drakonis[m]: What's lacking?
<Drakonis[m]>
but god forbid writing code with it
<gchristensen>
lacking incremental compilation
<Drakonis[m]>
it gets in the way for building
<Drakonis[m]>
getting libraries
<infinisil>
I don't think it's intended to use nix-build for developing, I always use the language specific build tool for it
<Drakonis[m]>
i can't play ball with python c bindings
<Drakonis[m]>
the language tools aren't aware of the nonstandard environment
<simpson>
Some of that is poor language-specific tooling, some of that is poor languages. Nobody's really prepared for module-at-a-time work in the full workflow.
<jD91mZM2>
I only use nix for C dependencies. Whenever I'm using pure rust for example I just use good old cargo and no carnix stuff
<Drakonis[m]>
don't blame the tools for not expecting running on the only outlier
<simpson>
dash and I designed Monte to be somewhat Nix-aware, and we think that we can have a development story which natively and directly integrates with Nix.
<simpson>
Drakonis[m]: From my POV, I am blaming tools for not being capability-aware. This is not a surprising thing; most tools are either too old or their creators didn't know about caps.
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<Drakonis[m]>
like you said, designed for nix
<Drakonis[m]>
it is an outlier
<Drakonis[m]>
also, i need to work with databases but i can't configure it incrementally
<Drakonis[m]>
I need new generations for that
<Drakonis[m]>
this is great if i want to deploy en masse
<Drakonis[m]>
but developing anything is ass
<Drakonis[m]>
also declare packages for your wm is weird
<Drakonis[m]>
why can't it handle this kind of stuff when declaring in the system packages
<gchristensen>
huh?
<Drakonis[m]>
ie: i have i3, now i have to declare what packages i want to use else it's unavailable
<Drakonis[m]>
i need to declare dmenu to use it
<gchristensen>
hmm dmenu is provided by default tho
<Drakonis[m]>
it kinda makes sense from a declarative view but in practice it isn't good
<gchristensen>
what is the problem? it sounds like you're saying
<gchristensen>
we should install normally used software for your VM by default
<gchristensen>
which we do, for i3 it is dmenu, i3lock, and i3status
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<Drakonis[m]>
haha no, dmenu was low hanging fruit
<Drakonis[m]>
i know it is the default
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<gchristensen>
I'm really looking for specifics so I can actually understand the problem
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<Drakonis[m]>
but if i want to add other packages beyond the default, i have to declare them in i3's package set, i cant just drop it on system packages
<Drakonis[m]>
can't just install rofi
<samueldr>
Drakonis[m]: are you talking about software like google-chrome or i3-specific software?
<Drakonis[m]>
or hell, in xmonad's case
<gchristensen>
I can and do..?
<gchristensen>
what are you doing that putting something in systemPackages doesn't seem to work from within i3
<infinisil>
I would really like to have 1Gbps within my home network
<sphalerite>
amazon's URLs confuse me, it seems you can omit almost all of the parts
<infinisil>
Oh and the joys of socket layouts from different countries
<sphalerite>
infinisil: there are 1200Mbps ones available in the same series
<infinisil>
Probably all my machines don't even support more than 100Mbps though :P
<sphalerite>
oh yeah. I love the design of UK sockets, it's very safe, it's basically impossible to electrocute yourself with one by accident
<MichaelRaskin>
Just take two screwdrivers
<sphalerite>
but the plugs tend to have flat backs, which means if one of them is lying on the ground the pins are probably pointing upwards and it is extremely painful to step on
<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: at that point I'm not sure it still counts as an accident
<infinisil>
Heh yeah, the swiss one doesn't have the stepping on problem, but i think it might be easier to elecro-cute yourself
<infinisil>
electro-cute*
<sphalerite>
ugh the swiss one is weird, why can't they do it like the rest of western mainland europe :p
<MichaelRaskin>
sphalerite: well, if there are kids involved…
<MichaelRaskin>
Actually, west mainland EU doesn't have a real consensus
<infinisil>
sphalerite: There's a standard in europe? :O
<sphalerite>
no, it's not a standard. They all have their own
<sphalerite>
the nice thing is that they're all compatible
<MichaelRaskin>
Almost
<infinisil>
They.. are?
<MichaelRaskin>
Mostly yes
<MichaelRaskin>
And even Russia uses something mostly compatible
<infinisil>
Maybe the world will eventually settle on a single one
<sphalerite>
yeah. So in a French socket you have a little pin in the socket that goes straight into the plug for grounding, while in Germany you have two brace sort of things opposite each other that slide into the edge of the plug
<infinisil>
But that might take like a century or so
<sphalerite>
I doubt it.
<infinisil>
I have hopes
<sphalerite>
high hopes, low expectations? :D
<MichaelRaskin>
After GDPR enforcement settles down, EU can pass General Electricity Protection Rules, that would make a finable offense for a company with presence in EU to refuse selling a EU-plug-compatible version of an appliance to a EU citizen anywhere in the world.
<sphalerite>
I doubt it because the cost of standardising everything is very high (replacing sockets in essentially all buildings) while the cost of dealing with it (providing multiple plugs for devices) is pretty low.
<sphalerite>
lol
<infinisil>
But standardizing is a one-time cost, the alternative will cost forever
<MichaelRaskin>
forever, a.k.a. mostly after the current rulemakers are out of office?
<sphalerite>
yeah but that's long-term thinking. Nobody
<sphalerite>
yeah what MichaelRaskin said.
<MichaelRaskin>
By now most compatibility domains are separated by large masses of water, too
<infinisil>
Don't ruin my hopes
<sphalerite>
I am glad we've managed to more or less standardise on USB for charging. But that's not so much of an infrastructure thing.
<infinisil>
And audio jack!
<infinisil>
And..
<sphalerite>
oh yes
<MichaelRaskin>
Could we please declare Apple criminal organisation for their assault on audio jack?
<sphalerite>
I'm in favour
<infinisil>
IP, Unicode are influental standards too
<MichaelRaskin>
(Google is obviously covered by GDPR)
<infinisil>
What other influental standards can you think of?
<sphalerite>
oh yeah, one thing I'd like to see more of is magnetic connectors like magsafe.
<sphalerite>
infinisil: HTTP? :D
<infinisil>
I'm having a hard time to decide whether Usb-C is better than magsafe..
<sphalerite>
magnetic USB-C :D
<MichaelRaskin>
HTTP is now out of favour. Prseumably because it was theoretically possible to write correct software implementation for it once and run it forever. With HTTPS that won't fly
<infinisil>
sphalerite: That would be nice
<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: but it's still the same old HTTP within the TLS, is it not?
<infinisil>
Hmm.. I'm not sure, it might not even be
<MichaelRaskin>
The problem is: there is no eternally correct server implementation that you could aspire to write.
<infinisil>
Depends on how you define correctness :)
<MichaelRaskin>
With HTTP/2 it won't even be the same HTTP inside
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, with HTTPS it will just stop working in a quite short amount of time.
<MichaelRaskin>
Because of cryptography drift.
<infinisil>
Ah yeah, deprecation of now insecure encryption
<sphalerite>
not if you continue to use the same client ;)
<MichaelRaskin>
Don't worry, that OpenGL dinosaur won't work on your notebook with direct-Vulkan-only drivers
<sphalerite>
same client hardware and same client software :D
<MichaelRaskin>
In the HTTP world, you can write a Pascal implementation of server once, then just rebuild it without ever looking inside if you need to change the hardware
<MichaelRaskin>
(won't work with C: any specific program will eventually be optimized to a crash by a next-generation compiler)
<MichaelRaskin>
And then, in HTTP world, you can use any fresh HTTP client on any hardware
<MichaelRaskin>
That's obviously unacceptable, as it impedes rewriting of history
<infinisil>
Hah
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<adamt>
Argh, i bet somebody did something weird here. This server got 2 nic's, each with two ports. Both ports on nic1 is connected to the switch, and can be used for bonding, but only port 2 can reach my dhcp server for netboot.
<adamt>
I have no idea how that happened...
<MichaelRaskin>
I wonder if at some point server tried forwarding between NICs and the router decided to take measures.
<adamt>
Forwarding between NICs?
<sphalerite>
Anybody know a simple piece of software for multi-track audio recording? Audacity seems to be riddled with deadlock bugs. (sorry for spam, just want to get it back to the top of my history so I can spam other channels with it more easily :p )
<gchristensen>
adamt: where is this? it doesn't sound totally uncommon
<gchristensen>
probably in that case you're not expected to use dhcp except for initial installation
<gchristensen>
* Packet.net works this way
<gchristensen>
(IIRC)
<sphalerite>
Python needs random numbers for the strangest of things…
<gchristensen>
oh?
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: sphinx is hanging on getrandom() in a build of ghc.
<sphalerite>
Which is actually quite convenient for me just now because it's building two versions of ghc at once, which it doesn't have enough RAM for
<sphalerite>
so I'll start haveged to unhang the build once the first ghc is done. Beautiful accidental hack.
<sphalerite>
I can totally see how random number generation is important for generating documentation. /s
<adamt>
gchristensen: It's on our own hardware
<adamt>
gchristensen: Probably an artifact of the chosen link aggregation method (802.3ad)
<adamt>
sphalerite: Maybe the documentation is filled with hidden snippets from cowsay
<adamt>
also, i don't care what people think i should be doing, i'm building my local nixos-as-a-service one way or the other :p
<samueldr>
unique ID generation for section links?
<adamt>
samueldr: It could just use a number roll for that. :p
<gchristensen>
adamt: gotcha
<gchristensen>
lots of doc tools DO use random IDs for section links :(
<gchristensen>
so that bogus links become truly bogus instead of pointing to the wrong place
<gchristensen>
so that old* links become truly bogus instead of pointing to the wrong place
<MichaelRaskin>
Wait, it uses blocking random, not the urandom-like one??