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<dash> mpcsh: You can! In fact I did, but chiefly because I wanted to use an added package in a nixos module
<dash> mpcsh: But you can __also__ just do 'nix-env -f mypackages.nix -iA somepackage'
<joepie91> slabity: it's definitely in the `flex` package
<joepie91> libfl.la libfl.so libfl.so.2 libfl.so.2.0.0
<slabity> joepie91: For some reason I can't link to it. I'm in a `nix-shell -p flex bison pkgconfig` environment, and `pkgconfig --listall` doesn't show it
<joepie91> slabity: right, nix-shell does not expose the libraries into the environment
<joepie91> slabity: I made https://www.npmjs.com/package/nix-devshell for that reason
<joepie91> (it's workings are fairly simple: https://git.cryto.net/joepie91/nix-devshell/src/master/bin/devshell.js )
<slabity> So... What's the recommended way of developing with libraries then? I thought that was the whole point of nix-shell
<dash> slabity: Sure. You do "nix-shell -A thing_youre_developing.nix"
<dash> uh, I mean "nix-shell mynixfile.nix -A thing_youre_developing"
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<slabity> But when I do `nix-shell -p libdrm pkgconfig`, I can definitely link to libdrm. Why is this so different?
<slabity> What determines when one library is available to pkgconfig in a nix-shell and another isn't?
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<slabity> Same with jack, libparted, libpci... But not libfl? And that's the norm?
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<Dezgeg> well flex doesn't provide a pkgconfig file
<Dezgeg> but the library & headers certainly is there
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<slabity> That's annoyingly inconsistent
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<Dezgeg> upstream doesn't provide one, no more than that
<Infinisil> Oh my god
<Infinisil> I can't get git to sign my commit because of this gpg2 -> gpg mess
<Infinisil> Has caused me problems twice today already
<mpcsh> dash: yeah so I'm looking to create my own expression for caddy (a webserver) and have services.caddy use my package
<mpcsh> so I should use an overlay for that?
<dash> Yes, if you do not want to define it directly in configuration.nix
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<mpcsh> dash: oh I mean I'm fine with defining it directly in configuration.nix
<Infinisil> mpcsh: Or you could just write the file for the package, then import it into configuration.nix directly
<mpcsh> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<mpcsh> I just wanna do like services.caddy.package = with mpcsh; caddy-all-plugins
<mpcsh> something like that
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<Infinisil> Well if it's super simple I'd put it in configuration.nix directly
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<Infinisil> Imo an overlay is best used for more complex package definitions
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<Infinisil> mpcsh: I'd probably do `services.caddy.package = pkgs.callPackage path/to/that/file {}`
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: hmm, I'd rather have something a little more elegant, something that will allow me to easily add more packages this way if needed
<Infinisil> Ah, well then, overlay be it
<Infinisil> something like `self: super: { caddy-all-plugins = super.callPackage path/to/that/file {}; }
<Infinisil> or define it inline
<mpcsh> Infinisil: so that piece, does that go directly in configuration.nix?
<Infinisil> and then `nixpkgs.overlays = [ (import path/to/that/overlay) ]`
<mpcsh> aha
<Infinisil> Or you can put it directly in there
<Infinisil> nixpkgs.overlays = [ (self: super: ... ) ] works too
<Infinisil> (which is what i mean by directly in there)
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: and is there any way to, say, have path/to/that/overlay be a github repo?
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<Infinisil> mpcsh: Yes, `import (super.fetchFromGitHub { ... })` should work
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<Infinisil> which is then IFD (import-from-derivation), which means that in needs to evaluate nix code at build time, and therefore is going to be a bit slower
<slack1256> where is a high level design spec of what an overlay is?
<mpcsh> slack1256: yeah that's what I was looking for
<Infinisil> I guess this is the most specific doc for it: https://nixos.org/nixpkgs/manual/#chap-overlays
<mpcsh> Infinisil: I read that, I feel like I understand how to use overlays but not what they are
<Infinisil> s/specific/defailed
<Infinisil> detailed
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<Infinisil> mpcsh: They take an old package set and allow you to add stuff to it
<Infinisil> or modify stuff
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<Infinisil> What do you mean by "what they are"?
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: "Overlays are used to add layers in the fix-point used by Nixpkgs to compose the set of all packages" is the description offered by the manual, but I just don't have enough grasp on nixos/nixpkgs to grok it
<Infinisil> Ah
<Infinisil> So you know how each package of nix can refer to any other package
<mpcsh> I don't lol
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<mpcsh> I'm very new to this :)
<Infinisil> Well now you know :P
<mpcsh> Do you mean like any package can specify any other as a dependency?
<Infinisil> yes
<mpcsh> Ok gotcha
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<Infinisil> So, at a first "iteration" of putting all packages together, there are none that exist at first, and all dependencies aren't really there just yet
<mpcsh> okay kinda with you there
<Infinisil> well actually it's the other way around I guess
<Infinisil> That all packages without dependencies get added first
<mpcsh> it's a chicken-egg problem?
<Infinisil> kinda
<mpcsh> OH
<mpcsh> I get it
<mpcsh> So you start with packages that have no dependencies and then like cascade out from there?
<Infinisil> So, nix iterates over this function which adds all packages that can be resolved
<Infinisil> I'm pretty sure that's how it goes yes
<mpcsh> And so are layers the steps in that function?
<mpcsh> er, rather, each iteration of that function produces a layer?
<Infinisil> And, if there aren't any loops (e.g. pkg referring to itself), eventually all packages are resolved
<Infinisil> That is a fixed point, because nothing changes anymore when applying the "resolve package" function
<Infinisil> mpcsh: Yes
<Infinisil> An overlay is an additional step
<Infinisil> I think
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<mpcsh> Ok I understand now, that was super helpful
<Infinisil> I think I didn't tell you anything wrong, I didn't check the source, but that's how I understand it from what I know
<Infinisil> s/think/hope
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Ralith opened pull request #28524: electron: 1.6.6 -> 1.7.5 (master...electron) https://git.io/v5tLB
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: beautiful, thank you!
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<joepie91> Infinisil: mpcsh: relevant: http://r6.ca/blog/20140422T142911Z.html
<joepie91> this pretty much explains all the override stuff and how packages can refer to each other and so on
<joepie91> it's pretty information-dense so take the time to read it carefully (and reformat the examples if needed to understand it)
<joepie91> but it has all the important bits :P
<joepie91> the tl;dr is "your package set is a function that accepts a reference to itself as an argument, and then produces the 'real' package set with that recursively"
<joepie91> so by passing in different things, you can get different 'evaluated' package sets
<joepie91> allowing you to substitute dependencies
<joepie91> that tl;dr is not a great explanation, but best I can do tonight :P
<Infinisil> joepie91: Nice, read halfway through it for now (it's late indeed)
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<joepie91> I think I took about 2 hours reading through it entirely, comparing to the nixpkgs code, reformatting the examples, etc.
<joepie91> to make sure I really really understood it
<joepie91> :p
<Infinisil> Would need to do that too
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<Infinisil> haven't looked at the Fix and Fix monad stuff in Haskell either just yet
<Infinisil> Wait, isn't this exactly what nixpkgs does
<Infinisil> A loeb that is
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<gchristensen> yep
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<Infinisil> So, nixpkgs actually is a usecase for a loeb, damn
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<dash> Infinisi1: I knew something fishy was going on in there, but I didn't know it was this bad.
* simpson pins
<gchristensen> bad?
<gchristensen> it is behind the module system, too
<Infinisil> dash: What are you referring to?
<dash> the fixpoint funtimes in nixpkgs
<gchristensen> they're "this bad"?
<dash> simpson: fits in a tweet
<Infinisil> I consider this really good!
<dash> gchristensen: cognitive hazard, etc
<gchristensen> ok I don't follow / don't need to follow
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<dash> "thinking about this too much without proper training might injure your brain"
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<Infinisil> dash: I still don't really get what you're considering bad, is it that loeb is used in nixpkgs?
<simpson> dash: Yeah, but I don't wanna lose my context.
<dash> Infinisil: I don't mean "bad" as in "should not be done", I mean as in "really confusing" :)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] moaxcp opened pull request #28525: visualvm: 1.3.8 -> 1.3.9 (master...master) https://git.io/v5tq0
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<dash> obviously it's very successful.
<Infinisil> Ah
<Infinisil> agreed, very confusing, I still don't fully get it
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* joepie91 lightbulb
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] jraygauthier opened pull request #28526: vscode-with-extension: improvements (master...jrg/vscode-extensions-improvs) https://git.io/v5tqy
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<joepie91> now where's that gist..
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<joepie91> Infinisil: a JS representation may make it a bit easier to follow: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/4bbedbc4e24ea23dbcee1a10cba32520
<joepie91> (this emulates lazy evaluation through function calls)
<joepie91> I probably should write an explanation of this concept some time
<joepie91> it's not really *complicated*, it's just not well explained
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<joepie91> unrelated, today in "wtf Google": https://twitter.com/joepie91/status/900534232296161284
<Infinisil> Ugh JS
<Infinisil> Well whatever, *clicks*
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* Infinisil 's lightbulb is flickering a bit more strongly
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<Infinisil> While Google's search engine usually returns great results, I don't like them being in every aspect of technology
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<joepie91> me neither :P
<clever> joepie91: where you the one doing the entire syntax of nix?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] fpletz pushed 1 new commit to openssl-1.1: https://git.io/v5tYl
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/openssl-1.1 828994f Markus Mueller: mariadb: fix socket path...
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<gchristensen> Profpatsch: can you disasm and I talk about nixcon tomorrow?
<joepie91> clever: writing a parser, yes
<joepie91> it's an on-and-off project
<clever> joepie91: i discovered that one of my nixops deployment files needs 33gig of ram to eval
<clever> and the GC in nix refuses to use more then 17gig
<joepie91> ... wut :P
<joepie91> how?
<thoughtpolice> Impressive. I thought my 35gb tarball in the nix store was pushing it (needs 100s of GB of RAM due to no streaming support), but just for evaluation? That's medal worthy.
<clever> joepie91: 10 nixos machines in the nixops, each with 10 nixos containers
<joepie91> that doesn't sound like something that should require 33 gigs of RAM...
<clever> evaling a single node needs 2.1gig
<clever> and it scales linearly
<joepie91> hrm. still sounds a bit ridiculous
<thoughtpolice> Also, I would think the GC should handle plenty of RAM fine. But Boehm can fragment pretty hard I guess, and it is conservative...
<clever> it does
<joepie91> then again I've generally been a bit puzzled by Nix' RAM use
<joepie91> I feel like it uses ten times as much RAM as it should
<joepie91> for what it does
<joepie91> I may be missing something there but it just feels off
<joepie91> doesn't fit onto my complexity -> resource requirements scale :P
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<thoughtpolice> I think very few people have approached optimizing Nix itself. Most of the time people tend to fix derivations to reduce memory usage/load requirements, rather than actually touch Nix.
<joepie91> quite possibly
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<Ralith> clever: wait, nixops can't scale to 100 machines? :|
<Ralith> so much for my plans to use it at work
<clever> Ralith: within a single deployment, i dont think it can pass 50
<clever> but if you just split them up into multiple networks, its fine
<Ralith> that is absolutely shameful
<Ralith> :/
<clever> it may also be that the nixos modules i'm using are overly complex
* joepie91 feels like some serious effort should be made on the obvious optimizations
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<joepie91> clever: it's not *just* that
<joepie91> Nix absolutely has performance issues, noticeably so
<joepie91> I'm not certain where they are yet
<joepie91> but it's slower than it should be
<joepie91> and I do get the impression that there are some easy wins to be had in places, once a profiler is applied
<simpson> Ralith, clever: I am slowly moving more and more things to k8s, but more for the orchestration than the containers.
<clever> joepie91: one thing i was thinking about, if we can find back-references within the heap, could we dedup the heap?
<joepie91> that'
<joepie91> oops
<joepie91> that's of an entirely different order of optimization than the type I'm thinking about :P
<joepie91> I'm more thinking along the lines of "cache some evaluations, profile the code to find the hot paths and make them do less work, etc."
<clever> joepie91: if you can merge identical values, you can shrink the heap, and if you can safely merge identical thunks you could maybe speed up cpu time
<joepie91> the "10% of the work for 90% of the optimizations" type
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* Ralith encourages clever not to try to be too clever
<Ralith> :D
<joepie91> yeah, pretty much that :P
<joepie91> go for the easy wins first
<clever> joepie91: another thought, if i can serialize the un-evaluated thunk, could i cache its result to disk?
<Ralith> doing extra work to make things faster rarely works out
<joepie91> anything that adds considerable complexity is probably not very desirable
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<Ralith> instead of trying to come up with creative ways to make it smarter, try finding simple ways to make it less dumb
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<joepie91> clever: possibly.
<joepie91> clever: you'd want to cache selectively though
<joepie91> specifically things that are likely to be expensive to evaluate
<Ralith> making programming language implementations not be garbage slow is a well studied problem
<joepie91> those kind of assessments can be really simple; for example, V8 determines whether to inline code by literally looking at the size in bytes of the functioin body
<joepie91> function*
<joepie91> and that *works*
<joepie91> it's not perfect, it's not elegant, but it's super fast to do and works well in 95% of cases
<joepie91> that's the kind of solution you want here, at least initially
<Infinisil> Couldn't be any more basic
<Infinisil> Never even thought of this
<joepie91> this is extra amusing when you consider that V8 is fairly widely regarded to be one of the more insane feats of optimizations, considering the non-strictness of JS and all the optimization problems that that causes
<joepie91> it's full of "stupid simple" heuristics like this afaik
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<Infinisil> Lol
<Infinisil> I actually like that, more material for JS-<s>hate</s>critique
<joepie91> :)
<joepie91> Infinisil: you may find this interesting: http://mrale.ph/blog/2015/01/11/whats-up-with-monomorphism.html
<Ralith> I imagine the first thing you'd want to do in nix is even simpler; trawl for pessimizations
<joepie91> funny aside; somewhere around 2010, I worked around the then-slow implementations of property lookups in JS by assigning properties to variables when they were used more than once in the same function
<joepie91> the worst part is that that actually worked and produced notable performance benefits
<joepie91> :p
<joepie91> not really necessary today anymore, though
<joepie91> but yeah, a property lookup + a variable assignment was considerably faster at the time than two property lookups to the same property
<joepie91> it was even worse if you were looking up properties on prototypes
<joepie91> because the further up the chain, the slower your lookup was
<clever> joepie91: there is one neat optimization ive noticed in nix, all attribute sets use ints as keys
<joepie91> mm?
<clever> joepie91: behind the scenes, it looks the keyname (a string) up in a set, and then does int compares while iterating over the key=value pairs
<clever> and certain key names like "name" are specially pre-allocated, and their id# is stored in a global variable
<Infinisil> joepie91: Wowie
<clever> joepie91: so nix can just ask for the attribute at key State.sName
<clever> joepie91: which saves nix having to do a strcmp against "name"
<Infinisil> Btw, is there any othere language that is strictly compile-time only like nix?
<Infinisil> It's really special in that regard
<Infinisil> Hmm, unless you consider that actually being runtime
<joepie91> clever: right
<joepie91> Infinisil: what do you mean with "compile-time only"?
<Ralith> wat
<Ralith> nix is a very mundane lazy interpreted language
<joepie91> I don't actually know how the Nix runtime works but from what I've seen I would guess it's just a naive interpreter implementation
<Infinisil> joepie91: the nix expression gets evaluated, there's no "runtime"
<joepie91> no JIT or bytecode compilation or whatever else
<Infinisil> or maybe I don't fully get it
<Ralith> being a naive interpreted language is not unusual or special
<clever> joepie91: at parse time, it turns things into a massive chain of classes
<joepie91> Infinisil: still not quite following. what do you mean with a "runtime" here?
<clever> joepie91: one sec
<dash> Infinisi1: "make"
<Ralith> maybe unusual in that people don't usually use such things
<Ralith> on account of they're very slow
<joepie91> :)
<Infinisil> dash: Ah good example
<Infinisil> joepie91: Hmm, not really sure even
<joepie91> clever: I will once synergy stops crashing and lets me copypaste the URL :)
<Infinisil> Ralith: Native interpreted languages, I see
<Ralith> Infinisil: no, naive
<Infinisil> Oh
<Ralith> as in "not very smart"
<Infinisil> But, it's also native in that it runs on the compiling host
<Infinisil> right?
<joepie91> clever: yeah, that kinda looks like how I'd probably write a naive implementation
<Ralith> that isn't what that word means
<clever> joepie91: another detail, is that when nix evals a thunk, it dynamicaly changes the type from thunk to the return value
<Ralith> and "the compiling host" is not really a nix-language notion
<clever> joepie91: so it only has to eval the thunk once
<joepie91> and that would probably be my first optimization :P
<Ralith> that's how lazy languages generally do it, yeah
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<Infinisil> Ralith: Ah right, there isn't even a compile phase, so this doesn't even make sense to say
<Ralith> Infinisil: yes, nix is a mundane single-phase interpreted language
<joepie91> it's unfortunate that I don't speak C++ at all
<Infinisil> Okay, I guess it's not special in that regard then
<joepie91> (nor do I really intend to change that)
<dash> The main thing is that nix is chiefly used to organize the execution of other code, like shell scripts and makefiles
<Infinisil> Yeah
<Ralith> joepie91: rewrite it in rust! :D
<dash> ralith: better, finish hnix
<clever> joepie91: also, while nix is evaluating a thunk, it temporarily changes the type to blackhole
<joepie91> Ralith: I, uh, may or may not be contemplating that
<Ralith> where's the fun in finishing things
* joepie91 shifty eyes
<clever> joepie91: and if it runs into a black hole, it knows it has gone full circle, and run into its own tail, and thats infinite recursion
<joepie91> clever: yeah, that's the infinite recursion detection
<joepie91> you told me about that
<joepie91> :p
<Ralith> ^^
<clever> lol
<joepie91> Ralith: wait, did you work on hnix?
<Infinisil> I'm all for RIIR, right after I learned it
<Ralith> joepie91: nope
<joepie91> ah, okay :P
<Ralith> I do a lot of rust in my free time, haven't touched haskell in quite a while
<joepie91> it was quite useful in figuring out some nix parser oddities
<joepie91> the reference implementation is... not very pleasant to read
<Infinisil> Ralith: How long did it take for you to get comfortable in Rust?
<Ralith> a few weeks, maybe?
<Ralith> rust is mostly pretty obvious if you are experienced in both Haskell and C++
* Infinisil is neither experienced in Haskell or C++
<Ralith> less so if you're missing either, to say nothing of if you're missing both
<joepie91> I'm missing both, but Rust is still fairly obvious
<joepie91> in the sense of "yeah this design makes sense"
<joepie91> not so much in the sense of "I already know how this works" :)
<joepie91> I found https://stevedonovan.github.io/rust-gentle-intro/ quite useful, alongside a lot of googling around
<Infinisil> I am very experienced in Swift, which has many similarities to Rust, and I do know the foundation of Haskell and C
<Ralith> the mundane parts of the type system is Haskell writ small and the novel parts are "what you should be doing in C++ anyway, except formalized"
<Infinisil> So I think I should be fine
<joepie91> I don't believe that any individual part of Rust is really very 'novel' (by design, iirc)
<joepie91> rather the whole package together is novel
<Infinisil> joepie91: Not even the memory model? Why not?
<joepie91> as something that generally Just Works and keeps you from shooting yourself in the foot for the most part
<Ralith> Infinisil: rust does not yet have a memory model
<joepie91> and that makes sense design-wise
<Ralith> joepie91: the specific application of affine types is not something I've seen before
<adisbladis> joepie91: Where else do you see the concept of pointer ownership?
<Infinisil> Ralith: Well I mean the whole ownership compile-time shebang
<Infinisil> (not memory model I guess then)
<joepie91> Infinisil: I vaguely recall something about the idea behind the Rust design being "we don't want anything in it that hasn't been around for at least a decade", although I'm probably not paraphrasing this accurately
<Ralith> Infinisil: ah, that's not a memory model
<joepie91> adisbladis: well... smart pointers? :)
<Ralith> joepie91: afaik you're exactly right, but there's a lot of novel engineering, if perhaps not PL research, in the realization of that
<joepie91> more seriously, I don't know the background of all the bits and pieces of Rust
<joepie91> but see the above
<joepie91> Ralith: right, but it'd be in fitting the pieces together
<joepie91> not so much in the pieces themselves
<joepie91> to be clear, I consider that a feature
<Ralith> strongly agreed
<Ralith> I settled on rust after exhaustively satisfying myself that trying to use more cutting edge PL research in a production-oriented language was not viable
<joepie91> a lot of the really useful and 'innovative' technologies that end up being stable long-term building blocks, are old research packaged in exactly the right novel way
<joepie91> hell, afaik bittorrent was designed in the same way
<Ralith> rust's conservativeness is one of its best attributes
<joepie91> one unanswered question I do have about Rust
<adisbladis> joepie91: I'm not sure they are completely analogous but sure, pretty close :)
<Infinisil> Ralith: I heard there is going to be better ownership analyzis coming, semantic instead of syntax-based, which means less conservative while still correct
<joepie91> afaik it's possible to produce a .so using Rust
<joepie91> and it's possible to consume one
<joepie91> but that obviously flies in the face of compile-time ownership and type checks
<joepie91> so how's that handled? some sort of metadata file? a layer of unsafety?
<Ralith> Infinisil: yes, the non-lexical lifetimes effort
<joepie91> if you want to talk from one Rust thing (an application) to another Rust thing (a .so)
<Ralith> it'll be nice
<Ralith> joepie91: none of that has anything to do with ownership and typechecking
<Infinisil> Ralith: Ah found it: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2094
<joepie91> Ralith: how doesn't it? you'd need to ensure that things are handled safely across the boundary between them
<Ralith> joepie91: in any language, to access a dynamically loaded symbol you must know its type in advance
<Ralith> and once you know the type and the address, it's (mostly) no different from statically linked stuff
<joepie91> Infinisil: Ralith: simple explanation / visualization: http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2016/04/27/non-lexical-lifetimes-introduction/
<joepie91> Ralith: nevermind, I think I'm not able to clearly explain the problem I'm seeing :P
<joepie91> not great at explaining things tonight
<clever> joepie91: another random implementation detail
<Ralith> I expect the act of putting it into words will probably be enlightening
<clever> joepie91: nix has 3 types of list, list1, list2, and listn
<joepie91> I promise I normally suck less at explaining things :P
<clever> joepie91: behind the scenes, nix uses a union type to hold the real value, and a lot of them are pairs of pointers (like a function* and argument*)
<clever> joepie91: so, as a speed thing, the list1 and list2 types directly store the values in the union, right after the type enum
<clever> listn, stores a pointer and size within the union
<Infinisil> clever: I just hope this kind of optimization isn't going to be necessary at some time in the future
<Ralith> joepie91: dereferencing a raw pointer (which is what loading a dynamic symbol gets you, and whose type you must come up with yourself) is unsafe, if that helps
<clever> it makes lists smaller then 3 slightly faster to read, because there is one less level of indirection in ram
<Ralith> clever: nix stores lists contiguously? that might be a perf issue
<joepie91> Ralith: I'll just re-ask the question when I'm in a more useful state of mind :P
<clever> Ralith: yeah, its a contiguous array of Value*
<Infinisil> Ralith: Why is that a perf issue?
<Ralith> might be, not is
<Ralith> I expect that Nix expressions sometimes do a lot of appending to lists
<Infinisil> Ah
<Ralith> unless it's being very clever, that means copying the whole thing for every append
<Ralith> which will thrash the heap
<clever> if you want to append 2 lists together, you need to copy the pointers from the 2 lists, into a 3rd new list
<Ralith> (in addition to amplifying writes)
<clever> but because the Value objects are immutable, you can share the Value* between the source and destination
<joepie91> clever: those all seem like sane optimizations/tricks
<clever> so the cost is just copying arround $total pointers
<Ralith> it's an asymptotic blowup if you're doing lots of building up lists from items one at a time, which is likely to be common
<joepie91> random thought: I wonder whether runtime static analysis would be useful in predicting how large a space should be allocated for a list
<clever> yeah, recursively doing list ++ [ a ] will be a bit expensive, as it has to re-copy the pointers each time, and gc the old list
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<joepie91> and maybe other things
<joepie91> but perhaps too slow
<Ralith> gc all the old lists*
<clever> but also, the map function knows the output size ahead of time
<Ralith> joepie91: you can't append to a list in-place, so I'm not sure that would be useful
<Ralith> (unless it grew some clever lifetime analyses to reuse storage)
<joepie91> was just thinking about that
<clever> so map is just a matter of pre-allocating a list, and then setting out[x] = f in[x];
<Ralith> hm
<joepie91> Ralith: you could probably have an optimization case where eg. you the list stored on the heap, with a predicted allocation size, and you can have multiple pointers pointing at it with a different length
<joepie91> Ralith: since all values are immutable anyway
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<clever> joepie91: hmmm, let me see...
<joepie91> Ralith: so when you append to the end of a list, you'd just create a new pointer with a larger size where possible
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<Ralith> maybe you could actually reuse storage easily, since purity
<Ralith> then do exponential realloc as needed
<joepie91> and fill up the corresponding space with new stuff
<Ralith> that would be an interesting optimization to test
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<Ralith> joepie91: right
<clever> is there a builtin to get the first N elements of a list?
<joepie91> that would only work if the list is only concat'ed with one other thing ofc
<Ralith> then when you have to allocate a new one on overflow, double it
<joepie91> so you can't do `foo ++ bar` and then `foo ++ baz` without having a copy
<joepie91> copy operation *
<Infinisil> clever: I'd assume it'd be called `take`
<Ralith> you end up with log n reallocs to store a list of size n
<joepie91> but `foo ++ bar ++ baz` would be fine
<clever> Infinisil: no such builtin
<Ralith> this should work in general
<Infinisil> clever: Indeed
<clever> Infinisil: and now that i think of it, nix has no way to know that the list is being depended on twice, as different sizes
<joepie91> Ralith: yeah, then you can sidestep the size prediction I guess
<clever> Infinisil: when you delete a given Value object, nix wants to delete the entire list it points to
<Ralith> joepie91: this is how everyone implements mutable appendable arrays in imperative languages, for that reason
<joepie91> allocation would be a bit more expensive but you'd save some static analysis which may be more expensive than the additional benefit you get from that approach
<joepie91> right
<Ralith> the extra allocation expense is constant-factor
<Ralith> probably invisible
<joepie91> Ralith: do you know if there's any prior work on the pointer-with-size approach I suggested above?
<joepie91> I mean, I'm making this all up on the spot, it's not like I have any formal schooling in runtime optimization whatsoever
<joepie91> :p
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<joepie91> so this may be something that people already do
<Ralith> I'm not aware of any, but I'm not an expert on data structures
<Ralith> let alone persistent ones
<Infinisil> joepie91: Probably, the world is big and there's lots of programs
<clever> joepie91: all lists greater then 2 in size are a pointer + size, but i believe nix expects a 1:1 mapping between Value instances, and the backing list
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<Ralith> it's a pretty obvious thing, so I'd expect persistent arrays to usually be implemented that way, but most languages with primitive lists like this just use linked lists and optimize the hell out of things at a higher level
<joepie91> clever: Q: are all values in Nix stored in separate locations on the heap, or are eg. small types like numbers stored directly in the list?
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<joepie91> afaik Nix allows different types in a list
<clever> joepie91: the list always containers pointers to Value objects on the heap
<joepie91> but I may be wrong
<joepie91> hmm
<clever> joepie91: the Value object then contains the type enum, and the int value
<Ralith> if Nix isn't doing the small integer optimization, that's probably the absolute first thing that needs to be fixed
<Ralith> that's a *huge* perf boost
<joepie91> clever: 'the int value'?
<joepie91> Ralith: I'm not so sure actually, Nix is a bit unusual in that you're mostly dealing with strings
<joepie91> or data structures that eventually evaluate to strings
<clever> so [ 1 2 3 ] is 4 Value objects on the heap, a list, and 3 int objects, and the list points to an array of 3 Value pointers
<joepie91> and use strings
<joepie91> so it may be less of a benefit in Nix than in the average general-purpose language
<clever> joepie91: so thats 5 heap allocations
<Infinisil> joepie91: Probably true
<Ralith> it's still a drastic benefit for every single time a number is used
<Infinisil> Which is like 1% of the time, so not sure if worth it
<clever> joepie91: strings are also fatter then you think
<clever> joepie91: for example, "${pkgs.hello}" is at least 3 heap objects, maybe more like 10 or 20
<clever> joepie91: first, you have the Value object for the string, then you have a normal char* containing the storepath, then you have a char** containing the context
<Ralith> it'd certainly be the very first thing I'd try
<Ralith> low effort, low complexity, drastic benefit when applicable
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<Ralith> you could save some indirection by using the spare bits for a few other common types, too
<clever> thats what list1 and list2 are doing
<Ralith> no, that's the small vector implementation, which is different
<Ralith> I'm talking about tagged pointers
<Ralith> er, optimization*
<joepie91> clever: "then you have a normal char* containing the storepath, then you have a char** containing the context"
<joepie91> you lost me here
<clever> Ralith: ah, like putting the type directly before the value?
<joepie91> I thought the context contained the store paths?
<Ralith> no
<joepie91> so then what does "the store path" refer to?
<clever> joepie91: every string in nix contains a list of context, what storepaths it depends on
<Ralith> x86 pointers have a couple(?) spare low bits
<clever> Ralith: ooo, yeah
<Ralith> for heap allocations, using typical malloc impls
<clever> because all allocations are rounded to the next 16 bytes for ex
<Ralith> historically these were often used to flag "this isn't a pointer, it's actually a 31/63 bit integer"
<joepie91> I have a mental red flag concerning those
<clever> Ralith: the problem, is that things start out refering to a Value of type thunk, which is a function pointer + argument pointer
<joepie91> I'm not sure why
<Ralith> which drastically improves performance for obvious reasons
<clever> Ralith: upon running, that mutates into another type, and all references must follow that change
<clever> Ralith: and nix doesnt know what the size will become, or the back-references
<Ralith> there is no size, a tagged pointer doesn't have its own allocation
<joepie91> clever: right, but you were speaking separately of "the store path" and "the context" as if they are two different things - or are you refering to the char* as being a part of the char**?
<clever> Ralith: i believe a tagged pointer is basicaly taking a char* that was allocated to a multiple of 16, and then using the low-order bits to store some type info?
<clever> Ralith: but if i start out with a function* that is stored at a multiple of 16, and type embeded into it
<Ralith> um, it doesn't matter what type the pointer is *to*
<clever> Ralith: and then i want to dynamicaly replace that function* with a full char[20], without changing the address
<clever> so that all references to the function* become references to the first byte of the char[20]
<Ralith> that isn't what tagged pointers do
<clever> thats the problem i can see with trying to use them in nix
<joepie91> I think that's the point :P
<clever> yeah
<Ralith> the point is that they don't do a thing which has nothing to do with them?
<Ralith> I don't get it
* joepie91 tries to reword
<clever> they cant do what nix requires
<clever> when i do let f = complex_function in { a = f; b = f; c = f; }
<Ralith> I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but they would work just fine in nix
<clever> it copies the Value* for f, into the slots a, b, c, and all 3 have the same address pointing to the same Value object
<clever> then if any of them are accessed, the type held inside the Value changes from Thunk to something else
<clever> Ralith: how will tagged pointers, that have been copied to 4 different places, handle the type of the object changing?
<Ralith> that's not their job?
<clever> how would you use them in nixexpr?
<joepie91> Ralith: so the idea is that a pointer at one moment points at a chunk of code that'll produce a value (a thunk), but once that thunk has been executed once, the pointer now points at the *result* of that thunk to prevent re-evaluating the same thing every time; therefore the type of the data it points at changes, and therefore the tag on the pointer no longer reflects the correct type
<Ralith> a tagged pointer encoding an integer is used when you've already forced the value
<joepie91> if I understand clever's concern correctly
<joepie91> (I don't know whether this is actually a problem, I'm just trying to reword the issue :P)
<joepie91> (my understanding of tagged pointers is iffy at best)
<Ralith> it's not, the tag remains correct
<Ralith> in that case, the tag is invariant and encodes "this is a pointer to a Value"
<clever> brb
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<Ralith> but if you have a Value that's been forced to a sufficiently small integer, you can replace future uses of it with the tagged pointer encoding of that integer (for example)
<Ralith> you could also have a tag for pointers to strings, if you like
<Ralith> save an indirection
<Ralith> integers are the biggie, though, because they let you reduce small heap allocations drastically
<clever> that could work, but due to the lazy evaluation, it might always be too late to apply
<Ralith> it might take some cleverness, yeah
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<Ralith> it might also be a bit of a pain since you'd have to guard every single Value* deref
<clever> nearly all access to the Value objects goes thru a small api
<clever> state.forceList(*args[1], pos);
<clever> this will throw an error if the Value in [1] isnt a list
<clever> and if its a thunk, it will run it, and apply the above check
<clever> *args[1]->listElems()[n]
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<clever> oh, yeah, this could pose a problem
<clever> the value of "this" would include the type
<clever> and you would have to mess with "this" every time you use it
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<anelson-> hey all
<Ralith> what's the type of forceList
<Ralith> if it takes a Value&, there's your UB right there :P
<anelson-> does anyone know why the mkDerivation for ghcjs seems to act differently than that for ghc? Specifically, `shellHook`s don't seem to work'
<Ralith> it's illegal to dereference a pointer that is not to a valid object
<Ralith> method calls count as dereferencing
<clever> eval-inline.hh:inline void EvalState::forceList(Value & v)
<clever> eval-inline.hh:inline void EvalState::forceList(Value & v, const Pos & pos)
<Ralith> if you have a "this" for it, it's already too late
<Ralith> so yeah, it would be a pain to implement
<clever> Ralith: for non-virtual functions, the compiler is dumb, and will just set "this" to whatever you dereferenced, even if its invalid
<clever> and if the member function never uses "this", you can call functions on a null pointer
<Ralith> dereffing into a reference is also dereffing
<Ralith> engaging in undefined behavior because you think you can guess what the compiler will do is not sound
<clever> yeah
<Ralith> (oddly, I'm pretty sure you can *invalidate* this, e.g. by deleting it, in a method, it just has to be valid when you start)
<clever> QT has a this->deleteLater() to prevent that kind of issue
<clever> it adds it to a queue, and the event loop will delete it when you return control back to the event loop
<Ralith> no, that exists for different reasons
<Ralith> specific to Qt
<anelson-> also for some reason the "ghcjs" binary is not in the PATH in the nix shell...
<clever> more so the caller wont loose the reference unexpectedly
<clever> anelson-: you must use the .env attribute on the derivation when using nix-shell
<simpson> What do folks do for managing wireless networks defined in configuration.nix? I need to switch to a slower but less-fucked network to do big uploads and I'd like to not have to do a rebuild every time.
<clever> anelson-: for example, nix-shell '<nixpkgs>' -A haskell.packages.ghcjs.acme-kitchen-sink.env
<Ralith> simpson: I just use networkmanager for my wifi wrangling
<Ralith> it's a GUI-friendly problem
<clever> simpson: i just leave /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf untouched by nix, and do wpa_passphrase name pw >> /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf
<Ralith> alternatively, perhaps you can connect to both networks simultaneously?
<Ralith> I forget how versatile consumer wifi radios tend to be
<Ralith> but I think it varies a lot
<clever> also depends on the driver
<clever> if both networks are on the same channel, you can use a special command to create a second wlan interface, and then control each independantly
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<joepie91> clever: maybe I should just use you as my Nix source code search engine in the future :P
<joepie91> you seem to know where everything is, heh
<clever> i had to fix a bug with parallel fetchurl calls causing nix to crash
<joepie91> that lock yours? :P
<clever> that lock didnt help
<clever> the replaceSymlink function was broken
<clever> you cant atomicly overwrite a symlink, so replaceSymlink creates a target+".foo" symlink, then uses rename to atomicly replace target
<clever> what if target+".foo" already exists?
<joepie91> heh
<joepie91> oops :)
<clever> and it tries to update the symlink to its current value, every time it checks the fetchurl cache
<clever> so even a cache hit involves "writing" the current value back to the symlink
<clever> so if you have a url in NIX_PATH, and run 2 nix's at once, they can collide with eachother and crash one
<dylanjust[m]> I'm building a Haskell project. My tests have some useful debug output, which I'd like to display. With cabal I run "cabal test --show-details=streaming". Is there a way of setting this flag when building with Nix?
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<clever> dylanjust[m]: i believe you want to set testTarget = "--show-details=streaming"; in the derivation
<dylanjust[m]> Awesome. Worked a treat. Thank you so much!
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] volth opened pull request #28528: mirrors: update apache and cpan mirrors (master...patch-57) https://git.io/v5tnk
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] sigma opened pull request #28529: dgraph: init at 0.8.1 (master...pr/dgraph-0.8.1) https://git.io/v5tnq
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<boomshroom> Hello!
<boomshroom> My phone died today and I'm trying to preform a recovery but I can't find fastboot in the packages or in the adb-sync package.
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<adisbladis> boomshroom: It's in android-platform-tools
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<boomshroom> adisbladis: I can't seem to install it. attribute not found or undefined variable
<boomshroom> Also, it doesn't show up on the website
<adisbladis> boomshroom: Oh I just looked at where it was in my nix-store. You can get it through androidenv.platformTools
<boomshroom> adisbladis: That worked, but `no permissions; see [http://developer.android.com/tools/device.html] fastboot`
<boomshroom> I noticed a programs.adb.enable option so now I'm rebuilding my system. I am suddenly very thankful that I'm not used Gentoo.
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<boomshroom> While waiting, I was trying to learn haskell and came accross the ACME category or haskell packages...
<boomshroom> *of not or
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<mpcsh> hey, anyone here use compton?
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<sphalerite> mpcsh: me
<mpcsh> sphalerite: does it fade properly for you?
<sphalerite> Oh, I don't actually use any of its fancy effects
<sphalerite> Besides transparency for dragged items
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<mpcsh> sphalerite: I don't want the fancy effects I just want it to fade my windows in and out slightly when they open and close
<sphalerite> That sounds like a fancy effect to me
<sphalerite> :p
<joepie91> sphalerite: so does transparency for dragged items, though :P
<sphalerite> joepie91: yes, hence "besides"
<slack1256> any way to make systemd not use cgroupv1 and just cgroup2 ?
<joepie91> hehe
<sphalerite> mpcsh: what options are you using?
<mpcsh> sphalerite: just services.compton.enable = true;
<mpcsh> sphalerite: wait nope sorry
<mpcsh> that's old
<mpcsh> one sec
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<sphalerite> Oh, I'm also not using the service but running it manually
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<mpcsh> sphalerite: yeah it doesn't matter for me, I've tried both ways
<sphalerite> mpcsh: try setting fade to true / adding -f to the command line :)
<sphalerite> Also your fadeDelta is very small
<mpcsh> sphalerite: it worked on arch :)
<sphalerite> On a 60Hz monitor, you'd be stepping the fade 5 times per frame which is kind of useless
<mpcsh> sphalerite: oh fuck I'm such an idiot
<mpcsh> sphalerite: fade = true
<mpcsh> sphalerite: 144Hz :)
<sphalerite> That's what I said
<sphalerite> Even then, 3ms is smaller than necessary
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<sphalerite> 144Hz = 6.9ms/frame
<mpcsh> sphalerite: hmm, fair, so I should make fadeDelta 6 and fadeSteps 0.02?
<sphalerite> Hmm, 50 frames = 0.34 seconds, so yeah I guess that could be an appropriate time
<mpcsh> sphalerite: it worked! thank you!
<sphalerite> NP haha
<sphalerite> Although why do I often feel compelled to RTFM on other people's behalf x)
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<mpcsh> sphalerite: hey man if it's any consolation I was in your shoes when I was on arch :)
<mpcsh> it's strange being a noob again
<sphalerite> Well it was mostly the Compton docs so not even nixos docs
<sphalerite> Also you've been here long enough to know about the options search, no? :p
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<mpcsh> sphalerite: yes, I do :)
<mpcsh> sphalerite: my confusion was that on arch, I think the fading option defaulted to true unless you specified --no-fading-openclose
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<mpcsh> sphalerite: so I wasn't thinking to look for the fade = true option
<mpcsh> either way I'm dumb :)
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<joepie91> "Android supports now a feature that will connect automatically to open access points (those without any security) and it will use a Google VPN as a secure tunnel to increase security."
<joepie91> eeeep
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<sphalerite> Isn't the first part, uh, problematic from a legal standpoint in quite a few countries?
<clever> joepie91: also, broadpwn
<sphalerite> joepie91: do you think this will affect your typical android user poorly though? The kind that uses Chrome and is signed in to google everywhere?
<sphalerite> clever: how is that related?
<clever> it is possible to exploit the firmware in the wifi chipset, just by tricking somebody into connecting to your access point
<clever> what joepie91 just said makes that even simpler
<joepie91> sphalerite: yes, because you're going from "Google sees a lot of your metadata" to "Google sees literally all of the network traffic you ever send"
<joepie91> sphalerite: the one thing that could make that worse is ssl-stripping
<sphalerite> I thought it wasn't necessary to get them to try associating clever
<clever> sphalerite: they have to associate first, but it occurs before the WPA handshake
<sphalerite> That's reassuring
<clever> so you can just sniff for the ssid's they are lookign for, and spoof a router in the phones list
<joepie91> hm, I don't actually know enough about broadpwn to know whether this is going to be an issue
<sphalerite> spoof eduroam = tonnes of pwns
<joepie91> broadpwn is still on my reading list, somewhere in spot #1xx
<clever> joepie91: basicaly, if your phone tries to connect to an AP, it can execute code in your wifi chip
<clever> and that wifi chip has DMA to the main cpu ram
<joepie91> (currently I'm reading up on IPFS and libp2p specs, since they're finally in a usable state now)
<joepie91> clever: right, but it's the specifics that matter here :p
<joepie91> oh
<joepie91> clever: funny note: my GPU seems to be abusing its DMA
<joepie91> writing junk to my RAM
<clever> fun
<joepie91> this stays contained within GPU-allocated RAM when using proprietary drivers
<joepie91> but when using radeon or amdgpu it starts writing junk to random chunks of memory allocated to applications on my system
<joepie91> and shit randomly starts crashing and throwing errors
<clever> oh, that reminds me of my issues
<joepie91> not sure where the difference is, maybe the different drivers give the GPU different address ranges to write to or something?
<joepie91> but yeah, with fglrx at least the damage is contained to rendering glitches
<clever> with the "ati" driver (old open-source one), i have no text in KSP mods (both native and wine)
<joepie91> and it doesn't totally destroy my system state
<clever> steam and obs refuse to even start due to missing opengl features
<clever> and several other issues
<joepie91> I had some corrupted Nix store entries a while ago that were probably caused by this, too :P
<sphalerite> joepie91: I don't see that making a huge difference. And in that user's position I'd rather trust google with everything than trust free-wifi-provider with everything
<clever> with the non-free driver (i forget the nixos name), it crashes instantly upon turning on a 2nd monitor
<clever> with amdgpu, everything just works
<joepie91> sphalerite: it's a little more nuanced than that..
<sphalerite> I suppose it's just giving more data that can be collated with what they already have, but it seems like a drop in the ocean for users who don't worry about that kind of thing anyway
<joepie91> anyway, not enough energy for that discussion right now :P
<sphalerite> And users who do care would just turn the feature off?
<joepie91> clever: nixos name is ati_unfree
<clever> ah yeah
<joepie91> or amdgpu-pro
<clever> dont think i tried radeon then
<joepie91> if you're using the newer one
<joepie91> ati -> radeon
<joepie91> ati_unfree -> fglrx
<clever> amdgpu is the one that fixed everything
<joepie91> amdgpu -> amdgpu
<joepie91> amdgpu-pro -> amdgpu-pro
<joepie91> that's the mappings of NixOS names to real driver names
<joepie91> clever: afaik amdgpu is a fork of radeon btw
<joepie91> so it was probably a bug that was fixed since the fork to amdgpu
<joepie91> bleh, amdgpu_pro -> amdgpu-pro
<clever> ah
<joepie91> I think that's correct
<joepie91> (I went through all 4 of them :P)
<joepie91> clever: so yeah, the tl;dr is that fglrx is the old proprietary codebase, and radeon is the old open-source codebase
<clever> amdgpu didnt exist when i went thru all 2 options :P
<joepie91> clever: and then AMD forked radeon into amdgpu(?), and started maintaining that, and built their own amdgpu-pro on top of amdgpu
<sphalerite> I wish there were decent (and free, but worst case I'll still take proprietary ones that actually work)drivers for nvidia.
<joepie91> containing the proprietary extensions
<joepie91> clever: this means that amdgpu-pro uses an open-source base which solves the "linking to Xorg versions" problem
<joepie91> or should, at least
<joepie91> amdgpu-pro is really just amdgpu + a bunch of proprietary extensions/libraries
<joepie91> iirc those are proprietary because it's licensed tech and AMD *can't* currently make them open-source
<clever> neat
<joepie91> so to my knowledge, currently everything that *can* be open-source about the drivers legally, already is
<joepie91> so long as you use a card that amdgpu supports
<joepie91> I may be wrong on some of the details but that's the general narrative anyway :P
<dylanjust[m]> I'm using nix dockerTools to build a docker image. Is there a simple way to push that to a docker registry? All I really need is a hook where docker is running and I can inject some shell.
<sphalerite> dylan.just: that would be impure, so it's not nice to do that inside of nix
<sphalerite> I'd probably have a script that runs nix-build, then docker load (or was it docker import?) and docker push
<dylanjust[m]> Fair enough.
<dylanjust[m]> Righto. I'll try that. Thanks.
<dylanjust[m]> Does the nix dockerTools actually use the docker daemon to build an image?
<sphalerite> No
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<sphalerite> See its docs
<dylanjust[m]> Sorry - I didn't realise there was docs for it!
<sphalerite> >Docker itself is not used to perform any of the operations done by these functions.
* dylanjust[m] hides face in shame :)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] gebner pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5t8y
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master d444c00 Gabriel Ebner: zinnia: 2015-03-15 -> 2016-08-28...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #28529: dgraph: init at 0.8.1 (master...pr/dgraph-0.8.1) https://git.io/v5tnq
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #28528: mirrors: update apache and cpan mirrors (master...patch-57) https://git.io/v5tnk
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #28526: vscode-with-extension: improvements (master...jrg/vscode-extensions-improvs) https://git.io/v5tqy
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<kuznero> Hi All!
<kuznero> Which package do I need to install on 64-bit NixOS to be able to run 32-bit executables?
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<symphorien> just install pkgsi686Linux.yourpackage
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<kuznero> symphorien: the thing is that I have a binary that is not distributed as a nix package, thus cannot find it under pkgsi683Linux
<symphorien> ah then you need to patch its rpath and interpreter with packages from pkgsi686Linux
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<kuznero> symphorien: thanks, can you point me to any example of how it can be done?
<kuznero> It seems that I am actually wrong. it is 64 bit. but then why does not NixOS want to execute it? Here is what `file db2cli` shows: db2cli: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, not stripped
<symphorien> the interpreter is wrong
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm closed pull request #28338: nixos: better tor config (master...nixos/better-tor) https://git.io/v7xlc
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<kuznero> symphorien: is there any way to fix that somehow?
<kuznero> And what it should look like?
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<kuznero> symphorien: thanks, will try it out.
<kuznero> How do I find `$NIX_CC` when outside of the context of derivation?
<kuznero> I am trying to find path to current dynamic linker in my system
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<LnL> kuznero: nix-shell -p pkgsi686Linux.stdenv.cc --run 'cat $NIX_CC/nix-support/dynamic-linker'
<LnL> oh, for x86 you can just use nix-shell -p stdenv.cc
<kuznero> LnL: got it, thanks!
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<kuznero> LnL: that worked :) thanks! Now ldd shows a few unmet dependency that I guess I need to find :) `libstdc++.so.6`, `libpam.so.0` and `libstdc++.so.6`. Is there any way to search for those somehow? Can it be normal `nix-env -qa ...`?
<LnL> nix-index should be able to help you there
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<symphorien> libstdc++ should be in gcc
<kuznero> LnL: are you referring to https://github.com/matthewbauer/nix-index?
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<LnL> yeah, libstdc++ should be in "${stdenv.cc.cc.lib}/lib"
<LnL> that's a fork, but yes
<LnL> it should also be available in the latest unstable channel
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<kuznero> LnL: `nix-index` failed for some reason, trying `sudo nix-index`
<kuznero> error: attribute ‘webkitgtk24x-gtk2’ missing, at /nix/store/rd229sm5nqf2v6bkfnnisfs9c8k32npj-nixos-17.03.1700.51a83266d1/nixos/pkgs/development/haskell-modules/configuration-nix.nix:132:45
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<kuznero> Could that problem be solved with `patchelf --rpath` because I just ran `patchelf --interpreter` before...?
<clever> you almost always need to set both of them
<kuznero> clever: will try it, thanks
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<kuznero> clever: trying to do something like this: `nix-shell -p stdenv.cc --run 'patchelf --interpreter ... --set-rpath ${stdenv.gcc.gcc}/lib64:${stdenv.gcc.gcc}/lib db2cli` But I guess I cannot use `${stdenv...}` in this context... How do I go about it?
<LnL> probably easier to use an expression
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<LnL> using an actual drv also has the advantage that nix will know your binary depends on those packages so they won't get garbage collected
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] jyp opened pull request #28530: Tensorflow1.3 dependencies (master...tensorflow1.3-dependencies) https://git.io/v5trc
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<kuznero> That is a very temporary thing I am doing - just need to be able to run one stubborn executable for debugging purposes... But it might be I just need to create a proper package for it... :( Didn't expect to get that kind of context switch today :D
<kuznero> Are there any examples of wrapping already built executable like that that you remember?
<kuznero> Small ones preferably :)
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<kuznero> Basically something without fetchgit, but copying a local file in...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/v5trb
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 8137a8c Vladimír Čunát: gawk: refactor...
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<kuznero> Will `fetchurl` function work with `file:///home/user/...` kind of path?
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<symphorien> src = /path/to/file is enough
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] rycee pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5t1x
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 30b21f1 Robert Helgesson: perl-IO-Socket-SSL: 2.039 -> 2.050
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] wizzup opened pull request #28531: luaPackages.luacheck : init at 0.20.0 (master...init/luacheck-0.20.0) https://git.io/v5tMu
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<pierron> Is there a command to suspend/hibernate the system that I can use as a normal user? https://pastebin.mozilla.org/9030442
<pierron> doing sudo systemctl suspend works fine, and does not report anythin in the log.
<pierron> I looked at the service, but I cannot find any dependency listed in it.
* goibhniu doesn't know if `pm-suspend` works differently
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<srhb> pierron: How about allowing the user to use sudo systemctl suspend passwordlessly?
<pierron> srhb: Can you specify a specific command in the sudoers?
<pierron> srhb: also, this used to work, so there is a bug somewhere and we should at least identify it before doing a workaround.
<srhb> sarah myhostname =NOPASSWD: /path/to/systemctl suspend
<srhb> I don't remember ever being able to do this without sudo rights
<srhb> It would be weird if I could
<srhb> Unprivileged user logging into a server and suspending needs _some_ kind of management.
<srhb> One could argue that on a single user system it would be nice to be able to enable that ability, but certainly not as a default measure. That would be a bug.
<srhb> Any easy way to do so is make a power group and let users of that group be able to shutdown, suspend, etc.
<srhb> (Just like the single user example above)
<goibhniu> I see that desktops use dbus, and that works without root and also locks the screen etc.
<srhb> I think we have upower too.
<srhb> Presumably the dbus versions use that.
<bennofs> doesn't systemd use policykit?
<srhb> Actually enabling that might be enough.
<bennofs> i think you can probably set a policykit rule to allow systemctl suspend without root
<srhb> bennofs: Oh, I've never messed with policykit.
<bennofs> it's just javascript *shrug*
<srhb> lol
<srhb> The description of security.polkit.extraConfig: "Any polkit rules to be added to config (in JavaScript ;-)."
<srhb> It doesn't seem so bad. I mean, being able to do this programmatically is The Right Thing.
* srhb wishes more config was code
<goibhniu> something like: `dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest="org.freedesktop.login1" /org/freedesktop/login1 org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.Suspend boolean:true`
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] rycee pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v5tSJ
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 2913bfb Robert Helgesson: perl-Git-PurePerl: 0.51 -> 0.53
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 9351c5c Robert Helgesson: perl-Connector: 1.16 -> 1.22
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<srhb> goibhniu: Interesting, that does not appear to require upower.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] makefu opened pull request #28532: metasploit: 4.14.25 -> 4.16.1 (master...pkgs/metasploit/update) https://git.io/v5tSD
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] primeos pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5t9c
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master d6eb43e Michael Weiss: quiterss: 0.18.6 -> 0.18.7
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* dylanjust[m] sent a long message: dylanjust[m]_2017-08-24_11:34:15.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/fDIuSbcXEzTEZjFuZluUqCuN>
<dylanjust[m]> This is on nix on Fedora.
<dylanjust[m]> Weird error. Has anyone hit something like that before?
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<gchristensen> ah, yes, I've seen nthat
<gchristensen> the ssh git is using is from Nix which by default doesn't support the config option gssapikexalgorithms
<gchristensen> which is in your ssh config in /etc/ssh...
<Mic92> dylanjust[m]: the quick fix is just to comment it out, you probably never need it anyway.
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<dylanjust[m]> Cheers
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<gchristensen> how do I make a page on nixos.wiki?
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<ikwildrpepper> gchristensen: you can go to non-existent page and click on Create
<ikwildrpepper> I think
<ikwildrpepper> yep, seems to work
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] dezgeg pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/v5t5N
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 5674da5 Tuomas Tynkkynen: Fix "treewide: Consistently call ARM 'arm'"...
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<gchristensen> cool, now to learn how to do wiki formatting :D
<ikwildrpepper> that I cannot help with :D
<ixxie> gchristensen: you found the wiki :)
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<gchristensen> :)
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<Mic92> gchristensen: great. I also always confuse markdown links with the wiki equivalent.
<gchristensen> I have no idea how to edit wikis :/
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<gchristensen> I'll let you know when I know enough to get confused
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<Mic92> gchristensen: at least they are more pleasure to read.
<gchristensen> yeah
<Mic92> mediawiki compared to github wiki
<gchristensen> oh yeah
<ixxie> indeed
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5tbr
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 6d795e1 Joachim Fasting: ntbtls: init at 0.1.1
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<pierron> srhb: Thanks I added it to the sudoers file, but I wonder why it was working before.
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<xd1le> How do I write a systemd service?
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<Mic92> xd1le: if you have checkout already nixpkgs, you can do grep -r systemd.services.
<Mic92> to get plenty of examples
<xd1le> Mic92: yeah I see but I mean in configuration.nix
<Mic92> yes
<xd1le> Mic92: thanks
<Mic92> xd1le: but take care, that your example is systemd.user.services.ipfs-daemon
<Mic92> this is a user-based systemd service
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<xd1le> Mic92: yeah they made a mistake
<Mic92> you probably want a system service so just replace systemd.user.services. by systemd.services.
<xd1le> Mic92: thank you :)
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<Mic92> xd1le: by the way, any module you find in nixpkgs/nixos you can also just add to your own configuration.nix
<Mic92> nixpkgs/nixos/modules
<Mic92> there is a config section in each module, the content of this attribute set can be copy an pasted to your configuration
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<stranger__> hi. is it possible to use $out in let expression?
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<ejoy> I need to put a script under /etc/network/if-up.d/ to do something as soon as VPN is connected. How to do this in nixos given /etc/network does not even exist?
<Mic92> stranger__: I remember there was something added to nix, but I am not sure, if it in nix unstable
<Mic92> *if it was in
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #28532: metasploit: 4.14.25 -> 4.16.1 (master...pkgs/metasploit/update) https://git.io/v5tSD
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<makefu> Mic92: thx for merging
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<ennui> is there a shorthand to copy a file as executable into the store? (like copyPathToStore)
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #28522: nixos/tor: default of IsolateClientAddr in SocksPort was inverted (master...tor) https://git.io/v5LpO
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<xd1le> yep useful, thanks again
<ennui> makefu, thanks, but this page doesn't contain anything related to my problem :)
<makefu> ennui: you want the file to be executable in the store directly as a file? like writeScript but with an arbitrary file?
<ennui> makfu, yes, exactly
<ennui> writeTextFile even contains a hidden argument 'textPath', but that path is moved instead of copied.
<ennui> so i have to build it myself, i guess
<makefu> im affraid there is no shortcut for this right now. you can use mkDerivation with a very simple buildCommand
<ennui> yes, i'll do that. thanks!
<pstn> Anybody in Berlin who wants to split shipping costs for nixos shirts?
<pstn> I'm talking about this: https://teespring.com/nixos-17-09-humming-bird#pid=211&cid=102526&sid=front shipping is 11€ to Germany.
<Mic92> oh oh: https://hydra.nixos.org/build/59242262 ssh middleman :)
<goibhniu> pstn: maybe mog would be interested in setting up something similar for europe
<mog> i dont mind setting something up or sharing the artwork
<mog> i was hoping to give the artwork to foundation anyway
<mog> does anyone know of a similar service in eu?
<pstn> I think spreadshirt works for both regions.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] hedning opened pull request #28534: copyq: 2.9.0 -> 3.0.3 (master...copyq_3.0.3) https://git.io/v5qfH
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<goibhniu> mog it looks like you can still use teespring but set EU as the fulfilment location ... maybe you need to add a separate product for each region
<mog> let me try to do that, id like it to be on same site for simplicity
<pstn> Agreed, that seems to be the best solution.
<ikwildrpepper> can I cancel my previous order?
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<mog> id think so ikwildrpepper but im just a user of the site not the operator
<ikwildrpepper> hehe
<ikwildrpepper> probably too lazy to do that anyway :D
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<mog> eu doesnt offer quiet same service it looks like goibhniu but ill get it done in a bit. i have to make even higher dpi version of the image for them
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<goibhniu1> moar dpi for us \o/
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<disasm> gchristensen, Profpatsch: I'm available to talk whenever you guys are free. Heading out at 3:30 EDT today for some family time.
<mog> a lot more
<goibhniu> thanks mog!
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<goibhniu> nice! the color is cool too
<mog> ya i like the options eu has better than us
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<mog> tempted to buy myself another one, if it werent for cost of shipping lol
<Mic92> looks like chromium requires more memory to build, then we have on hydra? https://hydra.nixos.org/build/59092855/nixlog/1
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<goibhniu> are you coming over for NixCon mog?
<mog> cant this year im going to be in a wedding at same time
<mog> i want to though seems like fun
<goibhniu> ah, that's a pity
<mog> i will never understand air travel, i was curious to see how much it would be for me to go to germany
<mog> it is cheaper than flying to see my folks in the states
<goibhniu> hah!
<Mic92> 3.49 euro shipping costs it says for me
<Mic92> sounds reasonable
<Mic92> (uk)
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<mog> i think next release im gonna try to do a poster. we can't let openbsd have all the fun
<gchristensen> I'd really like to hire a designer and do it for real
<gchristensen> I tried to do it for 17.03 but ended up running out of time and personal budget to get it done
<mog> that would be cool
<kragniz> anyone else going to freenode.live?
<kragniz> it's the same weekend as nixcon
<Mic92> mog: is L us-american large or european large?
<disasm> yeah, I see a difference of a dollar, 4.99 shipping to ship to US for EU shirt (3.99 for the other one).
<gchristensen> should probably contact the company Mic92
<mog> on the american im sure its the american, on the eu id assume its whatever euro large is
<kragniz> I see one of the confirmed talks is going to be about guix, so it'd be nice to get some nixos presence there :P
<mog> but i dont know
<gchristensen> kragniz: oh cool, I wish it wasn't at the same time as nixcon
<gchristensen> I'm certainly not going to sacrifice nixcon for freenode.live
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<kragniz> yeah, I wanted to go to both, but I already got a ticket for freenode live and it's hosted in the city I live in
<kragniz> for some reason I thought nixcon was after it
<gchristensen> you should speak :)
<goibhniu> it looks like you're representing NixOS at freenode live then kragniz :D
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<kragniz> rip
<gchristensen> goodwill: *poke*
<gchristensen> kragniz: we can help if you need help :)
<nliadm> does nix-env have a way to run in a container, the way `guix environment -C` does?
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<nliadm> I don't see it, but I could have missed it
<kragniz> maybe I could get some stickers or something to give out
<gchristensen> nliadm: wow cool! I didn't know guix could do that
<gchristensen> kragniz: I can help you with that, too, and would help pay for them
<nliadm> yeah, it's clever. I wonder if I could rig up some shit with systemd-nspawn
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<goibhniu> nliadm: I've heard about https://github.com/chrisfarms/nixos-shell
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<nliadm> goibhniu: is that only on nixos?
* goibhniu hasn't tried it
<nliadm> okay
<nliadm> that looks nice, and what I'd want
<kragniz> gchristensen: cool, I'll have a think about stuff
<nliadm> well, assuming I can run it on my work machine
<gchristensen> kragniz: let me know! :)
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<mog> i need to make a tool that shows me all files on my system that were not nixos
<mog> doing a backup and restore of a box and want to make sure i grab all the state
<mog> like ssh keys etc
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<mog> it would be pretty easy i think just look at all files and if its a symlink back to nixos ignore it
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] zimbatm closed pull request #28416: Terraform 0.10.2 (master...terraform-0.10.2) https://git.io/v5v2K
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<olejorgenb[m]> should new commits include automatically cleaned whitespace?
<olejorgenb[m]> ie. I'm adding to python-packages.nix and that file has existing trailing whitespace
<olejorgenb[m]> due to .editorconfig (checked into git) it is cleared by my emacs
<xd1le> olejorgenb[m]: just put it as a separate commit
<xd1le> to keep the commits atomic
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] gdonval opened pull request #28536: Libsigsev old kernel fix (master...libsigsev_old_kernel_fix) https://git.io/v5q33
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<xd1le> What's the difference between systemd.services.<name>.script and systemd.services.<name>.serviceConfig.ExecStart ? Not sure which to use.
<olejorgenb[m]> ok :) (is there a system in place to prevent new whitespace to sneak in (besides .editorconfig)? It is quite annoying to deal with - espcesially when .editorconfig enables auto cleanup)
<xd1le> olejorgenb[m]: not sure about that.
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<dash> xd1e: nothing really
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<xd1le> dash: hmm ok then thank you
<Infinisil> My exams are done \o/
<xd1le> \o/
<Infinisil> Three weeks without any obligations, I have time to contribute :D
<dash> xd1e: 'script' gets written to a file and the filename put in ExecStart.
<xd1le> dash: nice, thank you!
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<xd1le> dash: I feel like this should be documented to reduce future confusion
<dash> xd1e: awesome, you should do that :)
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<yorick> there should be something haddock-ish for nix
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] olejorgenb opened pull request #28538: Add matrix-python-sdk (pypi: matrix-client) (master...python-matrix-client) https://git.io/v5qnY
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Ericson2314 pushed 2 new commits to staging: https://git.io/v5qnx
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 791ce59 John Ericson: linux-headers: Improve derivation, removing cross arg...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 3964990 John Ericson: Merge pull request #28519 from obsidiansystems/linux-headers-improve...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] vyp opened pull request #28539: Document that systemd.services.<name>.script is the same as systemd.services.<name>.serviceConfig.ExecStart (master...document-systemd-script) https://git.io/v5qCZ
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<xd1le> dash: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/28539 hope you don't mind me posting your irc conversation :o
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<sellout-1> Has anyone managed to get haskellPackages.scion to build? I’m running into “missing dependencies” for network-bytestring (on darwin): base <4.4, network >=2.2.1.1 && <2.3
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<xd1le> I want to run a command in a nix expression that requires a command line option to tell it the configuration file. But instead of requiring a file, can I somehow pass that as a nix variable pointing to a nix string?
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<dash> xd1le: You can.
<Infinisil> xd1le: You mean something like `command --file ${pkgs.writeText "file" "content of file"}`
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<xd1le> Infinisil: yep, I wasn't sure show to do that
<xd1le> sure how*
<xd1le> Infinisil: is writeText supposed to be under pkgs?
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<pstn> mog: Wow, that was quick with the shirt. Just bought one :-D Thanks for your efforts.
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<mog> cheers
<Infinisil> xd1le: Yes, or is it not for you?
<mog> we are getting close to 100 dollars for project now
<Infinisil> xd1le: It's a top-level attribute in nixpkgs
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] mguentner opened pull request #28540: cpython: include test.support and test.regrtest (master...python_test_support) https://git.io/v5q4d
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<xd1le> Infinisil: no I just haven't tried it yet
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<Infinisil> Soka
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<xd1le> Infinisil: thanks for your help, going to continue my work later and will let you know if it works ;)
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<Infinisil> xd1le: Alright nice :)
<Infinisil> oh he gon
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel closed pull request #28470: nixos: Fix pam_kwallet5 integration (master...fix-pam-kwallet5) https://git.io/v5TbM
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<neonfuz1> just install android studio (jk pls don't)
<neonfuz1> wait, oops (was scrolled up really far)
<neonfuz1> anyways
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<Infinisil> :P
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] tokudan opened pull request #28541: unblock 17.03: ibus: disabling the emoji dict (release-17.03...ibus-unblock) https://git.io/v5q0Q
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5qEH
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 72d6389 Thomas Tuegel: dropbox: 32.4.23 -> 33.4.23
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel pushed 1 new commit to release-17.03: https://git.io/v5qK3
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/release-17.03 49f6352 Thomas Tuegel: dropbox: 32.4.23 -> 33.4.23...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v5qi0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master de57505 Albert Peschar: twisted: update to 17.5.0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master c6718c0 Frederik Rietdijk: Merge pull request #28295 from apeschar/twisted...
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<7JTAB36T6> [nixpkgs] FRidh closed pull request #28295: twisted: update to 17.5.0 (master...twisted) https://git.io/v7dPp
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5qix
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 1f4fdbc Frederik Rietdijk: python.pkgs.obfsproxy: fix build
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh force-pushed python-wip from 38ea988 to 1f4fdbc: https://git.io/vzaOS
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to python-wip: https://git.io/v5qMy
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python-wip 60f5b09 Frederik Rietdijk: python.pkgs: many updates
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<Isorkin> Hi/ How to create pull request with patc file?
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<disasm> Isorkin: you have github account? If so, fork nixpkgs, clone, apply patch, commit, push and create pull request.
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<gchristensen> Isorkin: you can also email a patch file to the mailing list
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<disasm> that works too :) and is a lot less steps!
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ttuegel pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v5qy0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 0cf6830 Bastian Köcher: LXQT-config: Adds patch for Cmake >3.8
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 639c355 Thomas Tuegel: Merge pull request #28500 from bkchr/lxqt_config_fixes...
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh force-pushed python-wip from 60f5b09 to 73f552d: https://git.io/vzaOS
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python-wip f2cdc1e Albert Peschar: twisted: update to 17.5.0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python-wip fb43574 Frederik Rietdijk: python.pkgs.obfsproxy: fix build
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python-wip 9c89884 Frederik Rietdijk: python.pkgs: many updates
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<mpcsh> hey yall can anyone help me create a nixpkgs overlay?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to python-wip: https://git.io/v5qSe
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python-wip fe3e5ce Frederik Rietdijk: python updates
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] vbgl pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v5qSU
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 01495f3 Vincent Laporte: ocamlPackages.js_of_ocaml-compiler: init at 0.3.0
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 77404db Vincent Laporte: jbuilder: 1.0+beta7 -> 1.0+beta12...
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<Infinisil> mpcsh: Where are you stuck?
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: oh hey again!
<mpcsh> well thanks to you I understand what they are now :)
<Infinisil> Hi :D
<mpcsh> but I can't find any docs on how to actually write one
<Infinisil> It's really just self: super: { <the stuff you wanna define> }
<mpcsh> Infinisil: so I can just put a package definition inside those brackets?
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<Infinisil> yes
<Infinisil> The manual has an example: https://nixos.org/nixpkgs/manual/#sec-overlays-layout
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 1 new commit to python-wip: https://git.io/v5qSH
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/python-wip 0553aa9 Frederik Rietdijk: updates
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: right, but those examples look like they're just overriding certain parts of a package
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: so you're saying I can also define whole new packages in there?
<Infinisil> Indeed
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<Infinisil> The `rr` in the example isn't defined before
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Izorkin opened pull request #28544: Add ModSecurity Connector (master...master) https://git.io/v5q9u
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<mpcsh> Infinisil: ok, makes sense. so can I just call `import ./mpcsh-overlay.nix` inside configuration.nix?
<Infinisil> mpcsh: Yes, nixpkgs.overlays = [ (import ./mpcsh-overlay.nix) ] should work
<mpcsh> Infinisil: sweet :) could I also use nixpkgs.overlays = [ (fetchFromGitHub .....) ]?
<mpcsh> I think you said yes yesterday
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Izorkin opened pull request #28545: nginx: add ModSecurity Nginx Connector (master...ModSecurity-beta) https://git.io/v5qHt
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<disasm> Isorkin: yup!
<Isorkin> disasm: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/28544/files - forgot to add a line - libmodsecurity = callPackage ../tools/security/libmodsecurity { }; - to pkgs\top-level\all-packages.nix Need to make new pull request?
<disasm> Isorkin: nope, just make the change, commit and push to same branch, that'll update the PR.
<disasm> they may ask you to squash your commits before it's merged, but I wouldn't worry about that now.
<maurer> a/go 19
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<tnks> garbas: cool, you're here too. I wasn't sure if I could ask all my questions as well on Twitter.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] ilpianista opened pull request #28546: network-manager-l2tp: 1.2.4 -> 1.2.8 (master...nm-l2tp) https://git.io/v5q7O
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<tnks> I want to get a better sense for why the Nixpkgs Python infrastructure isn't doing things the pypi2nix way.
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<nix-gsc-io`bot> Channel nixos-17.03-small advanced to https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/49f6352e94 (from 2 hours ago, history: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixos-17.03-small)
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<tnks> So I think I need to read pypi2nix's source code to see what all you're doing.
<tnks> if anyone else wants to jump in and talk about Python in Nix, feel free.
<rauno> Does anyone have an example of PXE booting file? There's one in manual but which format is used for PXE ? Got everything booting but when PXE got the provided file it crashed and reported 'illegal opcode' error
<dash> tnks: pypi2nix is newer :)
<gchristensen> rauno: I do!
<gchristensen> rauno: are you actually using ipxe?
<FRidh> tnks: I've discussed that with garbas. There are some issues with using pypi2nix for a large set like we have in nixpkgs and that has many packages providing extension modules. Anyway, one practical issue that is open is that for each python version and platform combination a package set would have to be created, and preferably all at the same time.
<FRidh> in principle it should be solveable, its just going to be a LOT of work
<rauno> gchristensen: nope, it said pxe 6.x.x something verion
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<gchristensen> rauno: ok, I _strongly_ recommend using pxe to boot ipxe, and then using ipxe to get nixos -- your boot time will be reduced by hours -- pxe is very very slow at fetching files because it uses tftp, and ipxe supports http and is way fast
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<rauno> oh okay, good point
<rauno> how tough is it to use pxe to boot ipxie ?
<gchristensen> ipxe is great and has instructions on setting up dhcpd for doing this chain: http://ipxe.org/howto/dhcpd
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<gchristensen> "PXE chainloading" is pretty much all you need to follow
<rauno> uum, nice, thx :) will try it out now
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<gchristensen> rauno: fwiw it took me about 1/50th of the time to setup the chain load than it took for pxe to download the nixos boot image :)
<rauno> wow :)
<gchristensen> tftp is like molasses
<rauno> another question for the future purpose, is it possible to script ipxe so it would do the whole installation of nixos without user interaction?=
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<gchristensen> you bet!
<tokudan[m]> The 17.03 channels is blocked for 7 days now, as far as i can see there are two problems: ibus (PR 28541) will hopefully fix that, and a Rust issue, that makes no sense to me
<rauno> omg, your the man gchristensen :D
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<rauno> totally made my day
<gchristensen> w00p so glad to help!
<deltasquared> what did I miss while I was enjoying a welsh holiday
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v5qFW
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 69a4836 Nadrieril: firefox syncserver service: run as non-root user by default
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 31ba364 Frederik Rietdijk: Merge pull request #28189 from Nadrieril/ffsync-non-root...
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<gchristensen> 90 seconds to a spacex launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4u3ZN2g_MI
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] WilliButz opened pull request #28548: update packages: watchman, feh, whois, duc, evemu and debianutils (master...packageUpdates) https://git.io/v5qFw
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<ilpianista> how do I build networkmanager-l2tp?
<deltasquared> gchristensen: d'oh, the GPU on this system likes to lock up under hwdecode... I haven't had time to turn it off
<ilpianista> $ nix-build -A pkgs.networkmanager-l2tp ~/nixpkgs
<ilpianista> error: attribute ‘networkmanager-l2tp’ in selection path ‘pkgs.networkmanager-l2tp’ not found
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<Isorkin> disasm: how to remove bad commit?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] evujumenuk opened pull request #28549: containers: remove EXIT_ON_REBOOT (master...exit_on_reboot) https://git.io/v5qbU
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<disasm> Isorkin: git rebase -i <last good commit> then you can prefix in the text editor with 'd' to remove the commit.
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<rauno> gchristensen: i successfully loaded ipxe, and after that when providing the netbook.ipxe file (generated with nix-build) it says operation not supported
<rauno> i used filename "netbook.ixpe", should it be http instead ?
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<gchristensen> rauno: yeah it should be like "filename "http://my.web.server/netboot.ipxe";" like http://ipxe.org/howto/dhcpd shows
<rauno> um ok
<rauno> even thou it says bzimage ok, initrd (operation not supported)
<gchristensen> oh
<gchristensen> one sec
<rauno> 3c126003 error
<rauno> the link is wrong in the error message :)
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<gchristensen> rauno: are the files next to each other like this: https://gist.github.com/grahamc/949971952b35f4a088064df25a3ccea7
<rauno> yes
<rauno> in tftp root
<rauno> list from ls: bzImage initrd lib netboot.ipxe nix-support pxelinux.0 pxelinux.cfg System.map undionly.kpxe
<rauno> some files (pxelinux) from other testings
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<Isorkin> disasm: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/compare/master...Izorkin:zsh?expand=1 - how to remove others changes file?
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<disasm> Isorkin: git checkout master -- modules/programs/zsh
<disasm> assuming this is in a feature branch
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<disasm> or are you trying to keep the zsh and get rid of the modsecurity?
<rauno> gchristensen: problem solved
<Isorkin> yes,
<gchristensen> rauno: how?
<rauno> http..
<gchristensen> ahh
<rauno> like the same u said, tftp probably so slow it couldnt get initrd fast enough
<gchristensen> cool :)
<rauno> probably need to check out now you scripts :)
<disasm> Isorkin: so you branched off of the modsecurity branch instead of master looks like?
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<Isorkin> disasm: load master branch, create zsh and change file nixos/modules/programs/zsh/zsh.nix
<gchristensen> I thought nix-build auto-called functions to get a derivation, am I wrong?
<gchristensen> oh it does, but not twice :|
<disasm> Isorkin: do you have the upstream remote in your git repo?
<Isorkin> I did not understand the question
<disasm> Isorkin: quick fix: git rebase -i c8c58f539ab979f5537bbe2e2f189d43b02ef371~ change pick to d for everything modsecurity related
<disasm> then git push origin zsh --force
<disasm> then to fix your master branch git checkout master; git reset --hard d6eb43eed4cc283c3d8377d7689c7e1453d676df; git push origin master --force
<disasm> Isorkin: I'm heading out for the day, but someone else here can probably help you further.
<Isorkin> disasm: I'll leave it this way
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] Izorkin opened pull request #28550: Fix zsh completions (master...zsh) https://git.io/v5qhp
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<rauno> gchristensen: how are the credentilas to nix and network config set?
<rauno> in your one-click install
<gchristensen> credentials are fetched from the packet API and network config is generated also from the packet API
<Isorkin> disasm: It turned out, thanks
<rauno> oh..
<rauno> gchristensen: and this is ran when building the image ?
<gchristensen> no, after booting the image it writes to the disk
<slabity> So I use to have zsh tab-completion for nix-env packages, but not anymore. Does anyone else get completion when they do `nix-env -iA nixos.<tab>`? If so, how do you set that up?
<gchristensen> iirc programs.zsh.enable = true does it?
<slabity> gchristensen: I have that enabled. But still no tab-completion for nix-env
<rauno> gchristensen: okay, makes more sense now, i think i can make use of it :) at least this type-0 booted up quite fast with my netboot
<gchristensen> rauno: are you using packet.net?
<gchristensen> slabity: hrmm sorry not sure :/
<rauno> nope
<gchristensen> oh ok :)
<rauno> just a plain server in a datacenter :)
<rauno> but i think it didnt install, just booted a live one
<gchristensen> I had to do a good bit of work to make it do the install
<gchristensen> its all in that repo though
<rauno> i belive you yep, but will save a lot of time if i take yours as base
<pbogdan> slabity: IIRC I needed zsh-completions and nix-zsh-completions packages and "programs.zsh.enableCompletion = true;", other than that not sure :/
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<slabity> pbogdan: I don't suppose you have your configuration.nix publicly, do you?
<olejorgenb[m]> slabity: poke me if following pbogdan advice doesn't work (I co-maintain nix-zsh-completions)
<mog> what is the purpose of systemd.user?
<gchristensen> user-services
<pbogdan> slabity: I don't but here are zsh-related bits in case that helps http://dpaste.com/2QR7H4W I'm using that on 17.03
<mog> but you have to define the nix file as root anyway/
<gchristensen> mog: indeed, and the user services are sorta buggy :(
<mog> and systemd.services you can define the user
<gchristensen> user services run on login and what-not
<mog> oh
<mog> also the startAt format is the same as cron yes?
<gchristensen> I reckon
<mog> trying to get rid of cron on my new box and switch over to pure systemd
<slabity> olejorgen[m]: Thanks. Here is a link to my relevant config: https://github.com/Slabity/nixos-conf/blob/master/conf/default.nix
<olejorgenb[m]> slabity: what is the output of `echo $_comps[nix-env]`?
<slabity> Blank line
<olejorgenb[m]> slabity: `ls /run/current-system/sw/share/zsh/site-functions | grep _nix-env`
<slabity> No results
<olejorgenb[m]> hm.. weird
<slabity> Wait
<slabity> A _nix-env file is in that directory. It's just not showing up when I grep it
<olejorgenb[m]> completion works for `grep` etc?
<slabity> Yea
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<slabity> My mistake, I grepped for _nix_env
<slabity> Yes, that grep command works. It's in there
<Isorkin> slabity: latest nixos 17.09 zsh-completions not work
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] copumpkin pushed 2 new commits to staging: https://git.io/v5mfW
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 08f3a60 John Ericson: cc-wrapper: Remove dead code...
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/staging 4f7f48f Daniel Peebles: Merge pull request #28521 from obsidiansystems/cc-wrapper-dead-code...
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<slabity> Isorkin: Oh. That would explain it.
<olejorgenb[m]> hm, then I'll have to look into it a bit
<olejorgenb[m]> it works here but it's a while since I've updated
<slabity> olejorgenb[m]: Are you on the stable or unstable channel?
<olejorgenb[m]> stable
<slabity> Might just be an issue on unstable like Isorkin said
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<olejorgenb[m]> yeah, I'll look into it :)
<gchristensen> :/ my nixos tests don't pass under Jenkins :/
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<slabity> olejorgenb[m]: Thanks, check pull request #28550 in NixOS/nixpkgs. It might be related
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<Coyin> hello, how can i do for upgrade firefox version to 55 ?
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<tokudan[m]> Coyin: if you're on 17.03, you can either wait for the channel to finally unblock or temporarily switch to 17.03-small
<Coyin> ok thx tokudan[m]
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<olejorgenb[m]> slabity: I suspect Isorkin is correct that https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/28550/files will fix it
<slabity> Speaking of firefox, is there a way to keep up with upstream nightly? Version 57 is out I believe
<olejorgenb[m]> I tried master and 1f70f3801b7173ddb2890fbe39f57d6dae3e6611 but both worked
<olejorgenb[m]> but I call compinit in my own zsh file
<slabity> olejorgenb[m]: Oh, okay. I'll just use compinit until it the PR gets accepted. Thanks for the help
<olejorgenb[m]> slabity: calling compinit manually worked?
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<slabity> Unless my recent rebuild did something, I now have autocompletion for packages in nix-env if I run compinit
<olejorgenb[m]> I though it should, but when I try to reproduce it by not calling it still works here
<olejorgenb[m]> ok, then I guess things are good
<olejorgenb[m]> :)
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<LnL> slabity: I forgot about that, is this the issue? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/27587
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<slabity> LnL: I'm not sure. I don't really know how zsh plugins work in the background. But I do know that if I don't call compinit manually then I don't get tab completion for `nix-env -iA nixos.<TAB>`
<slabity> It sounds like it to me, but I'm not making any assumptions on the specific issue
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<olejorgenb[m]> LnL: my somewhat qualified guess is "yes"
<LnL> ok, I'll take a look at it tomorrow
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<slabity> Can you make a derivation for an overlay? And then use the derivations in that overlay?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] lpenz opened pull request #28551: Revert "gnu global: set path of default gtags.conf in wrapper" (master...globalconfrevert) https://git.io/v5mL9
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<mog> if i define a list in nixos can i append to it later? i want to have enviroment.systemPackages defined in one file with some packages, and then i want to add a package to that list in another file
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] MP2E pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v5mtc
<NixOS_GitHub> nixpkgs/master 2639bce Cray Elliott: wineUnstable: 2.14 -> 2.15
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<tokudan[m]> mog: i believe if you're importing the second file the lists automatically get merged
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<mog> hmm ill try that
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<tnks> I'm watching some videos about Nix, and at the end of one, someone commented that "I rerun 'nix -i' because the semantics for 'nix -u' are bad"
<tnks> sorry, I mean't nix-env.
<gchristensen> nix-env or nix?
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<mog> tokudan[m], you are correct
<mog> thanks
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<tnks> but re-running 'nix-env -i' requires knowing all the installed packages, right? I think "nix-env -i" would install all of Nixpkgs, right?
<tnks> that's probably a separate point. I'm curious why people would avoid 'nix-env -u'
<mog> tnks, i avoid doing it as i prefer to have all my system defined declartively
<mog> so i can just nixos-rebuild switch --upgrade my whole system
<gchristensen> domenkozar: I fear that to do the ppNix part I have to actually just call out to js
<mog> i tend to use nix-env -i to try something or use something once
<mog> than i add it to the core
<tnks> mog: okay, I'm not sure if this commente was in the context of nixos.
<tnks> but yeah, even with just nix-env, you can maintain a list of packages to install in config.nix.
<mog> *nods*
<tnks> though the talk was by garbas about ways Nix can be made easier for beginners.
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] tokudan closed pull request #27870: Add nixops-keys support to grafana while also keeping the old interface (master...grafana-nixops) https://git.io/v7uTD
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<tnks> in that regard, the packageOverrides attributes in ~/.nixpkgs/config.nix is less than desirable.
<tnks> I guess I was expecting some specific complaint about why "nix-env -u" wouldn't work as you would want or expect.
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<pxc> I think I've used `nix-env -e '*'` more times than I've used `nix-env -u`, lol
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<catern> argh I really hate that nix-devel moved to google groups
<catern> very frustrating
<pxc> catern: I don't have strong feelings about Google Groups. Why does it matter? Does it mean you're forced to use a web browser or something?
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] romildo opened pull request #28552: oblogout: add description for configuration options (master...fix.oblogout) https://git.io/v5mY9
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<catern> pxc: yes
<catern> it also means that gmane no longer works
<pxc> :-(
<catern> which means that I can't read it from gnus
<catern> mailing lists are for fools
<catern> NNTP is best
<catern> but now I can't use it anymore :(
<gchristensen> so google grouups isn't the problem, just that it moved at all?
<mog> i think its harder to scan backlogs than mailman archives
<mog> but thats just me being an old curmudgeon
<catern> gchristensen: well... yes, for the most part
<gchristensen> ok :)
<pxc> couldn't it have moved anywhere as long as it was still a mailing list and still be archived on gmane?
<catern> it's very upsetting, this is the first mailing list I read that has fallen off gmane :(
<catern> pxc: gmane's interface to add new lists/update existing lists no longer works
<pxc> aw geez
<gchristensen> well frankly gmane hasn't been helpful in this regard
<gchristensen> nor did they reply to my numerous emails
<catern> do you mean Lars?
<catern> or the new owners
<gchristensen> new owners
<catern> Lars is under no obligation, but yeah, the new owners are being completely lame about this
<catern> they seem completely incommunicado
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<catern> maybe I should set up my own copy of gmane
<catern> are the scripts public I wonder?
<tokudan[m]> wow, travis still hasn't started the 5m build of PR 28541 from 5h ago
<niksnut> I thought gmane no longer exists?
<gchristensen> barely
<catern> the useful part of gmane certainly still exists
<catern> which is the mail-to-NNTP gateway
<pxc> catern: https://github.com/larsmagne?tab=repositories several of these are gmane tools I think
<catern> yes, I was just looking, weaverd and weft
<catern> but I don't see the mail to news gateway
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<obadz> globin: the firefox cherrypicks seem to be breaking 17.03
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<tokudan[m]> how can I figure out which nix store paths depend on a specific path that i want to delete, but is still considered living?
<slabity> I know it's not the best idea, but I don't suppose there's a way to fetchFromGitHub the HEAD and ignore the sha256?
<dash> slabity: use nix-prefetch-git to get the sha256
<slabity> dash: I know that, but I'd prefer not needing to update the hash every time the upstream changes.
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<slabity> Unless there's a way to call that in configuration.nix?
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<dash> slabity: the whole point of nix configuration is that the system doesn't change until the config file changes.
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<slabity> I figured that would be the answer
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<pie_> is there a package for ddrec?
* pie_ waiting for firefox to load
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<pxc> pie_: are you excited for the new Firefox? I was running some nightlies the other day and right now I'm running the current beta. They've made huge strides
<pie_> pxc, whats new?
<slabity> WebExtensions
<pie_> besides the new plugin ...yeah that
<pie_> idk im just waiting for all the plugins to not work xD
<pie_> ah it was called ddrescue
<pxc> pie_: yeah, many extensions are broken on Firefox 57 (current is 55, beta is 56, nightly is 57)
<pie_> anyway my ff is slow to load because lots of tabs xD
<pie_> though it has always bothered me that just having a lot of unloade tabs shouldnt be such a big load
<pie_> i mean obviousy idk how FF works under the hood so *shrug(
<pxc> basically Firefox now loads in less than a second even with literally thousands of tabs
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<NixOS_GitHub> [nixpkgs] dywedir opened pull request #28554: rustRegistry: 2017-07-23 -> 2017-08-24 (master...rustRegistry) https://git.io/v5mno
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<pxc> it's dope af
<pie_> oh god im not alone anymore....
<pie_> pxc, noooooo :O really :OOOOO
<pie_> shittttt
<pxc> oh wait, maybe not less than a second. I was looking at the wrong thing. but it's way way, faster
<pxc> pie_: I use tree-style tab and usually have a few hundred open and I've noticed improvements
<pie_> maybe i hsould get that
<pxc> anyway, yeah, addon breakage is coming but so are huge improvements for users of large numbers of tabs :-D
<pie_> this makes me happy
<pxc> most addons are already being ported to WebExtensions, though, and we've got a release in between
<pxc> it might go pretty smoothly
<pie_> well probably a lot of the more obscure addons are gonna stay broken but eh...
<pxc> and Firefox's WebExtensions will remain more powerful than Chrome's extensions API, somehow. So we can still keep some of the advantages of FF. I'll see if I can find the mozilla blog post
<pxc> or Quora answer or whatever itw as
<pie_> so i never did actually look into what webextensions changes
<pxc> yeah idr. Supposedly we'll still be able to do some things that Chrome can't. I couldn't find the post I was thinking of quickly enough so I'm abandoning the search lol
<pie_> k
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<olejorgenb[m]> pxc: what changes besides better overall performance? (I'm hoping for a native tab-suspender)
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<pxc> olejorgenb[m]: not sure. I'd like that feature, too. I currently use some addon which uses internal APIs to do tab suspension; you and I might be using the same one
<pxc> I guess the shift to WebExtensions will make some Chrome extensions usable on Firefox, which seems like a good thing
<olejorgenb[m]> pxc: Yeah, but the one that's compatible with ff57 has some problems so I'm currently without any - relying on regular restarts to suspend tabs ;)
<pxc> lol I guess that's one way
<pxc> I'm using ff56 rn
<olejorgenb[m]> (scrolled up and found the blogpost linked - seems like restart tab suspending save even more memory - that's good)
<samae> aszlig: hey, I've update and successfuly synced taskwarrior and taskserver with a manually defined certificate, thanks for the mid-july patch
<olejorgenb[m]> pxc: yeah, so the functionality to suspend tabs is there - just to bad one have to restart to trigger it
<pie_> suspend as in unload or pause?
<samae> minor issue: it is not trivial to get the user key (the long 12345-12345-12345) since it does not appear in the logs, but appart from that, it seems to work ok
<olejorgenb[m]> pie_: as in unload the whole page from memory but remember the tab history, scroll position (preferrably filled in forms) etc.
<olejorgenb[m]> so some dynamic state will be lost
<olejorgenb[m]> but the tab should in theory take almost no memory and no cpu
<pxc> it was pretty much the only way to get by with high-tab workflows on older versions of Firefox
<pxc> at least it seemed that way to me
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<catern> man, doing fetches from the user, outside the sandbox, really seems like The Way To Go
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<fresheyeball> looking at this expression
<fresheyeball> where is the build happening?
<fresheyeball> I don't see a builder.sh
<fresheyeball> shlevy: thoughts?
<slabity> So I have added the mozilla overlay to my configuration.nix through this: https://pastebin.com/jjsk4Bwr
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<slabity> No errors, but I can't seem to access any packages in the overlay. Any thoughts?
<shlevy> fresheyeball: checking
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<fresheyeball> shlevy: so...
<fresheyeball> its either realBuilder, which is not there
<fresheyeball> or the shell itself?
<shlevy> Yep, and see the args
<fresheyeball> I see default-builder.sh on the next line
<fresheyeball> where is that file?
<shlevy> In the same dir as that nix expression
<fresheyeball> oh!
<fresheyeball> oh! I see
<fresheyeball> hmm
<fresheyeball> there is no default-builder.sh in there
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<fresheyeball> shlevy: sorry, I'm baffled as to how this builds
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<shlevy> the same dir as *make-derivation.nix*
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<slabity> I am super confused on how nix overlays work. I've got nixpkgs-mozilla in my nixpkgs.overlay list, but I can't seem to access firefox-nightly-bin at all.
<joepie91> slabity: afaik firefox is not in the overlay
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<joepie91> slabity: confusingly, that repo contains two separate things - an overlay for Rust things, and some other form of packages for Firefox and such
<joepie91> at least last I checked
<joepie91> slabity: oh, nevermind, it has a firefox-overlay now as well
<joepie91> apparently this was fixed a week ago
<slabity> joepie91: Well now I'm even more confused.
<joepie91> yeah, no, ignore what I said :)
<slabity> No, I mean I'm even more confused with it being corrected
<slabity> Am I importing this correctly? https://pastebin.com/jjsk4Bwr
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<slabity> I'm not getting any errors or anything, but it looks like it changes nothing
<olejorgenb[m]> Using eg. nix-repl to actually evaluate `THE_DERIVATION.builder`, `THE_DERIVATION.args` and `THE_DERIVATION.buildPhase` is a way to find out how the build happens <- fresheyeball The actually builder args is often set deep down in some generic function
<joepie91> slabity: hm, I don't know whether that works; I personally have a copy of nixpkgs-mozilla checked into my config repo because the versions are generated from metadata anyway (afaik)
<joepie91> so you don't need to constantly keep nixpkgs-mozilla updated
<joepie91> I don't know if that also applies for Firefox
<joepie91> I only use it for Rust
<joepie91> nixpkgs-mozilla is in the root of that repo
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<slabity> joepie91: Okay, so you import the rust-overlay. But why do you need to have a local copy? Why can't you use fetchFromGitHub?
<joepie91> I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying that I don't know if your approach works because it's not an approach I've used or tested :P
<joepie91> best I can do here is describe what solution worked for me so you have a reference point
<joepie91> I have no idea what's failing on your end
<slabity> Yea, I'd like to try and avoid using local checkouts
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<slabity> Oddly, I can't even seem to get it to fail if I put nixpkgs.config.overlays = "asdf"; or anything else ridiculous
<slabity> Oh... The variable is nixpkgs.overlays, not nixpkgs.config.overlays
<pie__> are any relatively modern amd gpus buyable sub-100$?
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<slabity> joepie91: Do you happen to get an error "attribute 'buildRustPackage' missing"? The issue in https://github.com/mozilla/nixpkgs-mozilla/issues/59
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<boomshroom> Hello!
<joepie91> slabity: I haven't used buildRustPackage at all yet
<boomshroom> Yesterday, my Nexus 5x got LGed, so I'm currently using my Nexus 4 as a backup. Since I had installed Sailfish on it, which is a full GNU/Linux distrobution, I thought about the possibility of installing Nix on it. What do you guys think of using Nix on a mobile phone?
<joepie91> nor anything that uses it, I think
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<joepie91> pie__: I'm running an FX-6300 and it seems that's sold at about 75 EUR here, as lowest price
<joepie91> oh sorry
<joepie91> I read CPUs
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<joepie91> nevermind :D
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<dylanjust[m]> Hi all! I'm trying to run nix-prefetch-git and pass the output as an argument to to a nix file (with nix-build). Basically, I want to check out a given revision and have nix import that.
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<dylanjust[m]> I have no idea what the syntax should be for this.
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