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<hyper_ch>
the-kenny: howdy
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<ison111>
Does anyone know which package comes with "dbus/dbus.h"? I'm getting a compile error for nvidiaBeta driver saying it can't find it. I was able to get "dbus-c++/dbus.h" by installing the "dbus_cplusplus" package, but I guess that's still not what it wants
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7bRq
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 378c6d7 Vladimír Čunát: knot-dns: try to fixup on Darwin
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<layus>
hodapp, 'nix-shell -p caffe' wfails too here on 17.09 (d4ef5ac0e9). Ends up in an infinite `yes` call...
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<adisbladis>
clever: I still have a system running arch which is not updated for 6+ months...
<adisbladis>
Scary to touch it, arch updates have a tendency to break things horribly
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<sphalerite>
I've changed the uid of a user, but nixos-rebuild switch tells me it's not applying the hcange
<sphalerite>
how can I force it to?
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<srhb>
sphalerite: I think I'd just do it manually. You'd still have to chown things etc.
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<srhb>
rauno: In any case, if you have a specific question, better phrase it like "how do I do X in NixOS" rather than trying to find that specific option you had in another distro. :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] the-kenny pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7brJ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 9fab349 Moritz Ulrich: optipng: Workaround for issue 28106.
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<srhb>
In this case, "how do I bridge two network interfaces" is answered by that option :)
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<rauno>
good point srhb ;)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] primeos pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7boa
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master bc24294 Michael Weiss: maim: 5.4.67 -> 5.4.68
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<makefu>
mhh, it seems i am unable to post to the google groups ML ... is anybody able to check if it went to some Moderation-state or into the ml-spam?
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<srhb>
Speaking of mailing lists, is anyone able to subscribe to the new-new mailing list?
<srhb>
My gmail account claims that it gets smtp 550 when attempting to deliver the message to nix-owner
<srhb>
Maybe I'm just confused..
<srhb>
Yep, definitely confused. Got my groups mixed up. Q_Q
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<adisbladis>
Gah.. Damn aws
<ikwildrpepper>
?
<adisbladis>
Why do they have such separation between regions
<adisbladis>
I'm doing a multi region deployment and have to keep creating the same rules in all of them
<adisbladis>
Even keypairs are per region it seems like
<ikwildrpepper>
adisbladis: bit unfortunate, but should be easy with some functions right?
<ikwildrpepper>
(to abstract over the common resources that need to be in all regions)
<adisbladis>
ikwildrpepper: Yes it's easily resolved but a bit annoying
<adisbladis>
You would think that a keypair could be per user
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<Myrl-saki>
Waaait
<Myrl-saki>
Is libreoffice currently not building?
<Myrl-saki>
I'm on a 2-day(?) old unstable, and it's still not in the bincache.
<adisbladis>
Myrl-saki: I'm on master and its in the cache
<Myrl-saki>
adisbladis: Weird. Maybe I should update libreoffice again.
<srhb>
Myrl-saki: It is cached in 129f8d7
<srhb>
Which sounds like is what you are on.
<srhb>
Perhaps you have changes to it or its inputs?
<Myrl-saki>
This is so weird
<Myrl-saki>
This is at least 5 day old.
<Myrl-saki>
Brb. Cooking.
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<Myrl-saki>
Decided to just update.
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<sphalerite>
srhb: yeah I ended up editing passwd myself
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<sphalerite>
I knew the chown stuff would be necessary, but wasn't sure about how to get the passwd entry updated
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<mpickering>
Should aspell work when added to a shell.nix file or do I have to install it globally
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<viric>
mpf
<viric>
booting with a btrfs root... I get "open_ctree failed" in stage 1 mounting /mnt-root
<viric>
but if I get the fail shell, I can mount it.
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<sphalerite>
mpickering: I think there's an aspellWithDicts thing that works in nix-shell
<Myrl-saki>
There are so many things that I have to build
<Myrl-saki>
Which I didn't need to build before
<Myrl-saki>
wtf
<gchristensen>
srhb: ping
<NickHu>
Could I perhaps get someone to look at a couple of my pull requests? They're very simple initialisations of new applications that have stalled a while
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v7bdp
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 5261c44 Nick Hu: urxvt_autocomplete_all_the_things: init at 1.6.0
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master c734648 Graham Christensen: Merge pull request #27823 from NickHu/aatt...
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<gchristensen>
thank you, NickHu!
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v7bFb
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 78b6d45 Nick Hu: syncthing-tray: init at v0.7
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 47ec1bc Graham Christensen: Merge pull request #28300 from NickHu/syncthing-tray...
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<NickHu>
Thanks a lot gchristensen!
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<NickHu>
Do you think it would be at all possible for nix-gsc-io`bot to update the channel title with the latest channel commit and date?
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<NickHu>
Would save me having to look at howoldis to see if my system is out of date
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<gchristensen>
mmm unlikely. what if we had a cli command?
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<gchristensen>
or even a tray *eyes syncthing-tray as inspiration*8
<NickHu>
Erm, by channel title, I meant the irc channel title
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<gchristensen>
yeah, also usually called the channel topic. it requires +o / ops in here, which the bot doesn't have (it can barely IRC as it is)
<NickHu>
would it be a huge deal to grant it to that bot?
<NickHu>
iirc you can also use ChanServ to give a topic-setting permission to a specific user
<NickHu>
without full opping them
<gchristensen>
good to know
<NickHu>
I think
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<gchristensen>
I'm just not sure it is the best solution
<NickHu>
You might wanna check that, idk if it was freenode or somewhere else
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<NickHu>
What's the harm?
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<nwuensche>
Hi! I'm trying to install xbacklight at the moment, but xbacklight always tells me that none of my outputs has a backlight property. What could I do to fix this?
<Infinisil>
someone in a forum mentioned that removing xf86-video-intel solved his problem (which I have too), how do I do that with NixOS? I only know it has something to do with video drivers or so
<cocreature>
nwuensche: do you have an intel graphics chip?
<nwuensche>
Jup
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<NickHu>
Infinisil: If you remove that, do you have any other graphics drivers to use?
<gchristensen>
NickHu: harm? probably none, but it isn't a little bit of work
<NickHu>
This issue sounds like something I experienced before with the acpi_backlight kernel parameter
<NickHu>
Had to set it to native or !Windows 2012 or something
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<Infinisil>
I'll just try setting videoDrivers to something like Vesa or modesetting
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<Infinisil_>
Nope, still the same
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<hodapp>
layus: weird, does it do that when trying to accept the license agreement? For me, that part worked fine, but it failed later on
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<hodapp>
namely, "#warning -- unsupported GNU version! gcc 4.10 and up are not supported!" at the first NVCC invocation and then various template errors after
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<Infinisil_>
Alright I'll just edit hardware-configuration.nix, removing the "kvm-intel" kernelModule
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<hodapp>
can anybody else try 'nix-shell -p caffe' when they get a chance and let me know if/how it fails?
<rauno>
hey guys, i'm a bit bugged again with network configurations :) basically i have a nixos kvm host, and i want to configure tagged vlan over eno1 so it can be used by virtual machines, any tips or guidelines?
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<nwuensche>
Hi! So I'm still trying to change the background light of my laptop. However, I made a script which does change the value of /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness directly. But I have to chmod 777 this file so that I can use hotkeys which change the value without sudo. But when I restart my PC, these permission settings are gone. How can I save them after I reboot?
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<tilpner>
Why does xbacklight not work? If you really want to use your script, and your normal user doesn't have permissions to change /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness, consider using a setuid root wrapper for your script
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<nwuensche>
tilpner: I have an intel hd graphics. xbacklight can't find the output. This seems to be a known issue
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<tilpner>
xbacklight works fine here with an Intel card
<gchristensen>
sounds like you're in a good position to help debug! :)
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] domenkozar pushed 1 new commit to release-17.03: https://git.io/v7Nve
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 31a956f Josef Kemetmueller: Force check the filesystem before resizing...
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<nwuensche>
tilpner: How can I create a root wrapper?
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<tilpner>
nwuensche - In your nixos-config, add security.wrappers.your-script = { source = ...; owner = "root"; setuid = true; };
<tilpner>
nwuensche - If you want to define your script inline, you could define source = pkgs.writeScript "some-script-name" ''your script definition here'';
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<nwuensche>
tilpner: I created the script like this, but it still doesn't get the permission to write in /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness
<tilpner>
nwuensche - I can reproduce that it's not working, but I'm not sure why :/
<grw>
hi, i have a hydra jobset consisting of mixed aarch64 and armv7 jobs. i expected the jobs to run simultaneously on different build machines, but it seems to run one after the other
<grw>
should i have different jobsets for builds i want to run in parallel?
<nwuensche>
tilpner: Strange. Do you know any workaround here?
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<layus>
hodapp, Oops, the yes command was me trying to accept the licence ;-). The full og is here http://termbin.com/13z3
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] rycee opened pull request #28315: cassandra: clean up installed documentation (master...fix/cassandra-docs) https://git.io/v7NL6
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<Meptl>
Any way to see the version of the configuration.nix file associated with a boot/generation?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] rycee opened pull request #28316: liquibase: clean up installed documentation (master...fix/liquibase-doc) https://git.io/v7NLS
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<Wizek>
Can I make `-j4` be default? I'm running nix on an ubuntu based distro.
<Wizek>
And if so, how?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v7NLx
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 2b0f79e Chris Martin: sublime3: fix package re-zipping...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/nixpkgs_mailserver-nix.lt 3cc16c6 joachim schiele: nixcloud.email: a simple yet powerful abstraction for a basic mailserver configuration on your root server
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/nixpkgs_mailserver-nix.lt f090300 joachim schiele: postfix: major updates in typing and functionality improvements
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] qknight deleted nixpkgs_mailserver-nix.lt at c2564bb: https://git.io/v7NOs
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<catern>
hey #nixos
<catern>
here is a crazy idea
<catern>
could one run a special local Nix store implementation, which is based on a union mount of a local filesystem on top of a FUSE/network filesystem
<catern>
and the network filesystem has every path in the binary cache available on demand
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<catern>
and when you install something into the store from a substitute, it is then available instantly, because you can lazily copy the network files into the local filesystem
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<hodapp>
huh... are there implementations of union filesystems that will do things this way?
<nliadm>
seems like it might be easier to set up a local http proxy
<catern>
sure, that's the normal way that union filesystems operate
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<hodapp>
they lazily copy into the local filesystem when you try to access something?
<catern>
oh, no
<catern>
not that part :)
<catern>
but that's something you can add straightforwardly - you could have the underlying network filesystem handle it
<NickHu>
And two machines configured pretty much identically
<NickHu>
On one machine I can do nix-env -i hsEnv, but on the other I *have* to do nix-env -iA nixos.hsEnv
<NickHu>
I checked the env of both shells and it seems that everything mentioning "nix" is the same
<NickHu>
Anyone got any ideas as to what might be causing it?
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<adisbladis>
catern: I think that it would be prohibitively expensive to do a readdir on the store if things were set up that way
<catern>
adisbladis: you mean a readdir on /nix/store? that should not be allowed anyway :)
<adisbladis>
catern: What would be the significant advantage over trying to download something from the cache?
<catern>
adisbladis: it's faster?
<adisbladis>
catern: It happens occasionally anyway, shell completions for example
<catern>
adisbladis: you can prevent it with chmod -x /nix/store
<catern>
so no problem
<catern>
adisbladis: or the network filesystem can just return an empty set to the readdir request
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<adisbladis>
catern: Hmm I just came to think of the discussion I saw about putting the binary cache on ipfs
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<adisbladis>
That would be pretty similar to what you just described
<catern>
adisbladis: where is that discussion?
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<catern>
adisbladis: just the Nix and IPFS ticket?
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<adisbladis>
catern: There was also something on some ML
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<catern>
yeah that could be a cool integration. although IPFS is not actually a filesystem AFAIK so I don't think it's really the same at all
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<catern>
right I see
<catern>
the IPFS relevance is that IPFS must store things in NAR form but Nix wants things in, y'know, "realized form", unpacked... so there needs to be a FUSE filesystem intermediating between the two somehow
<catern>
(or not a FUSE filesystem, something, anything, but people proposed a FUSE filesystem which unpacks NARs on the fly)
<catern>
this is kind of like that but with actual concern for performance and integration with the Nix store
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* __Sander__
is suffering from a Node.js depression
<catern>
clever: yeah, but do they integrate with the store/substituting logic? FUSE is slow after all
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<clever>
catern: nix would need to be patched to just throw the whole NAR into a directory and signal the fuse layer, instead of trying to unpack
<clever>
there is also the issue of sharing uncompressed nar's, thats going to be harder on the network layer
<catern>
clever: just curious, why can't things be stored uncompressed and streamed into a NAR when you want to share them? that seems better all around
<catern>
uncompressed+unpacked
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<clever>
its much simpler for the ipfs daemon to share things, if you just give it a directory full of blobs it can share
<clever>
and it doesnt have to understand what is inside them
<clever>
it just shares the files as-is
<catern>
can't that directory full of blobs be a FUSE filesystem? :)
<clever>
lol, maybe
<clever>
then the performance cost is on the ipfs side, rather then the entire-system side
<catern>
indeed, that's the tradeoff that I want to make
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<clever>
one issue i can see, ipfs wants to read&hash every file its sharing, so that will involve reading your entire store every time you start the daemon
<catern>
hmm
<__Sander__>
Infinisil: some strange quirk when using the 'tar' package
<catern>
IPFS can't be told about "immutability"??
<__Sander__>
I'm creating a pipe that reads from a gzip stream, filtering files out of a tarball
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<clever>
catern: yeah, we would need to convince it that the nar's are immutable
<__Sander__>
I discovered that if you skip 'entry' events something will go terribly wrong
<__Sander__>
after hours of debugging/trial-error :)
<catern>
adding this kind of extensibility to the IPFS storage layer seems like the right way to go
* hodapp
stabs Caffe in the face
* hodapp
stabs CUDA in the face
<catern>
(having no real knowledge about IPFS)
<catern>
still though, even with an IPFS plugin to allow it to read the store in unpacked rather than NAR form
<catern>
I still think it might be cool to have a lazy FUSE union-mount layer
<catern>
so all installs happen "instantly"
<catern>
hmm
<catern>
you could even optimize it for
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<catern>
short-lived nix-shell usage, vs long-lived nix-shell usage/nix-env installs
<catern>
so that in the short-lived case you don't even copy the files locally, just rely on the FUSE filesystem page cache
<catern>
that would have to be completely heuristic based though, I think?
<catern>
(which is something which you can otherwise nicely avoid)
<disasm>
since I installed wine everything passed to xdg-open tries to open with wine. Anyone know where this is set? I don't think I even have wine installed anymore.
<catern>
disasm: xdg-mime possibly?
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<disasm>
ah, ~/.local/share/applications wine created a bunch of desktop files in there :( killed them all and it works as expected
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<tilpner>
How do the security wrappers work? /run is mounted with nosuid, yet the wrappers in /run/wrappers/bin/ have suid set. I understand that suid won't be effective if the executed program starts with a shebang line, but that won't happen during the execve of the wrapper, right?
<tilpner>
If I wrap a C program that uses system("id"), it's uid 0, but if I wrap a script "#!/bin/sh\nid", it's not uid 0
<tilpner>
I thought the security wrapper was meant to fix this?
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<LnL>
it's a separate tmpfs
<tilpner>
Hah, you're right. I filtered /etc/mtab for suid, so that didn't even show up, thanks
<tilpner>
Also, is there any trick to strace a suid program?
<clever>
tilpner: if you run strace as root, the setuid wont work, but the child will be ran as root
<LnL>
-f should follow the execve
<clever>
LnL: the kernel disables the setuid if you have a debugger attached
<LnL>
hmm, that makes sense :)
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<tilpner>
clever - Of course... using strace as root will pass the ruid == euid check, I didn't know setuid doesn't work with strace. Thanks :)
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<Dezgeg>
I think bash also refuses to work in setuid conditions and just drops privs
<tilpner>
Really? So there's no way to have a shell script with suid?
<tilpner>
(With wrapper and execve. It works with system("..."))
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<clever>
tilpner: there are so many problems with that, many env vars can leak functions into bash
<clever>
and if the script is then ran as root, you have a security problem
<tilpner>
Couldn't the wrapper strip the environment?
<clever>
and if bash is ran under that cgi'd script, it gains functions that the user provided
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<clever>
tilpner: passing null there would make it safe, it would also break many things
<clever>
tilpner: X11 wont work, locales will be reset to defaults, it wont know what terminal your using
<clever>
PATH will also be null, which will break a lot more
<LnL>
tilpner: there is WRAPPER_DEBUG, maybe that helps
<clever>
tilpner: sudo already has a list of vars that arent safe and get cleared, and does a lot of things to make you safe when doing such things
<tilpner>
Okay, empty won't work, what about "clean"? There could be a whitelist of environment variables to pass through? Nevermind, sounds hacky too... :/
<dhess>
Did something recently change with clang on macOS? I updated nixpkgs-unstable and suddenly wakelan won't compile. I don't think wakelan has changed in months.
<dhess>
looks like stdlib (or std-something) is not being included
<tilpner>
This is what I've been testing with. So /bin/sh (actually bash?) starts as uid 0, but then reverts that?
<tilpner>
(Yep, actually bash)
<dhess>
also, should I be using the nixpkgs-unstable channel with macOS, or nixos-unstable? (My understanding was that nixos-unstable is updated even when stuff is breaking on macOS, i.e., that nixpkgs-unstable is more stable for macOS)
<clever>
dhess: nixpkgs-unstable is the only one with binary cache coverage for darwin
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<dhess>
clever: yeah, cool, that's what I thought.
<hodapp>
if I added up all the hours I have spent getting CUDA shit to work right, would it exceed the number of hours of computation that CUDA saved me?
<hodapp>
clever: thus far I have put near zero analysis into what CUDA is actually getting me
<hodapp>
clever: the reason I am so inefficient is that everything that depends on CUDA seems to become a gigantic dumpster-fire every time I try to actually follow the instructions instead of just taking time to disable all that crap
<clever>
heh
<dhess>
yep
<hodapp>
it never *looks* like I'm going to have to spend 8 hours debugging a broken environment for something that "should" be working, and I don't do it because LOOOOOOOL OVERANALYSIS BECAUSE I'M JUST A DERPY ENGINEER
<hodapp>
I do it because I'm actually trying to make something work, not make it perfect
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<dhess>
So, anyone know yet why this 'unset CPP' thing is occasionally needed in preConfigure for clang on macOS?
<clever>
dhess: maybe something is checking if $CPP == cpp, and then assuming it must not be clang, so its safe to use clang-incompatible args
<LnL>
dhess: there's an issue open for the llvm stdenv
<dhess>
LnL: ok. This 'unset CPP' hack is needed for wakelan. Should I make a PR for that or wait for this to be resolved in stdenv?
<LnL>
I'm testing some stuff without it, I'll most likely fix that today or tomorrow on staging
<cbarrett>
__Sander__: youre the author of disnix correct? the link to the manual is broken :(
<LnL>
dhess: I noticed it, but I've been busy fixing other stuff :)
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<F0rTh3J3st>
I've just installed nxos and am learning my way around. Am I correct in thinking that only programs that are snaps can be installed?
<__Sander__>
cbarrett: yes I know
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<__Sander__>
that's because hydra no longer stores build products
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<__Sander__>
I still have to look for an alternative
<cbarrett>
ah
<__Sander__>
you can however still read the manual if you install the disnix package
<__Sander__>
should be in $prefix/share/doc/disnix
<__Sander__>
uh
<tilpner>
F0rTh3J3st - If by snaps you mean the Canonical package thing, then you're wrong
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<rauno>
anyone here familiar with vlan-s bridges and kvm networking ?
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<__Sander__>
cbarrett: seems that I'm wrong hehe
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<__Sander__>
cbarrett: no sorry it is included in the package
<__Sander__>
$prefix/share/doc/disnix/manual
<avn>
__Sander__: can disnix and friends can be used as CI/CD pipeline for manage nixos host itself?
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<__Sander__>
avn: you mean using disnix to upgrade a nixos installation?
<avn>
yes
<__Sander__>
avn: yes you can, but it's user experience is not a smooth as NixOps
<__Sander__>
see the disnixos extension
<__Sander__>
I'm actually not using it much myself either
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<dhess>
Hmm, just got "Argument list too long" from nix-build for the first time ever
<dhess>
when trying to push my local binary cache
<dhess>
well, technically from nix-store
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<cbarrett>
__Sander__: tyvm. researching automation to deploy several docker containers and other instances, disnix looks very exciting
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<__Sander__>
cbarrett: interesting
<__Sander__>
cbarrett: I'm using for deploying one of our systems into production at my current employer
<__Sander__>
I manage ~250 services
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<dash>
garbas: seeing a really odd behavior from pypi2nix: i'm getting errors when I run "nix-build requirements.nix -A packages" in setup.py, about unicode errors reading README.rst -- but if I run "nix-build requirements.nix -A packages.chardet" or whatever, it seems to go fine
<adelbertc>
if i have a function that takes `{ extraBuildTools ? [] }: ...` which should be used to fetch extra build tools for nix-shell, how do I use that when calling the script from the command line?
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<adelbertc>
i thought `nix-shell shell.nix --argstr extraBuildTools [haskellPackages.ghc-mod] --pure` would work, but seems to just ignore it
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<clever>
adelbertc: --argstr passes it as a string
<clever>
adelbertc: also, what is the first ~2 lines of shell.nix?
<trikl[m]>
Not sure if it happened to someone else before
<trikl[m]>
I can't see anything wrong with the offending expression
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<srhb>
trikl[m]: No, that's weird..
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<yorick>
I'm trying to package a thing but it's libraries don't seem to end up in the rpath
<yorick>
I don't understand why this is happening
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<clever>
yorick: are you building it from source?
<yorick>
clever: yes
<nwuensche>
Hi everybody. I have a problem with xbacklight. Because I have a Intel HD Graphics, it doesn't seem to work. This seems to be a known bug. Therefore, I wrote a script which changes the value in /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness automatically. However, I'd need sudo to write into the file, so I chmod 777 this brightness file. But these chmod options were gone after restarting the computer. For this
<nwuensche>
reason, I added the script into the configuration file and set the user to root, so that I can use it without sudo. You can find the script here: https://gist.github.com/NWuensche/1f9dc5dfe21b769aa2344e4fec53946a . However, when I try to light-intel, I get the error: tee: /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness: Permission denied. Why is this? And how can I get this working? Thank you so much for your
<nwuensche>
help.
<clever>
yorick: are the libraries in the lib directory at the time it was linked to them?
<yorick>
clever: yes. I think the missing rpath is meson's doing
<yorick>
(it strips out the rpath on install)
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<clever>
yorick: what is the value of rpath before it gets stripped?
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<yorick>
in the build system
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<clever>
ah
<clever>
first thing i can think of is to just patch that script to not mess with the rpath
<tilpner>
nwuensche - You could technically write a compiled (e.g. C) program that writes your number into /sys/*. That program wouldn't revert the setuid, but it's really ugly, so it's really only a hacky workaround, not a fix
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<clever>
nwuensche: you could also configure sudo to allow running a script without a password
<clever>
then you dont even have to deal with setuid
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<yorick>
clever: it's the build system, they replaced autoconf with it, and it'll leave that $ORIGIN entry in and it should probably not be in
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<catern>
meson is the worst? :(
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<clever>
yorick: you may need to re-do the rpath using patchelf, as if it was a closed-source blob
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<yorick>
catern: I'll grudgingly accept it if it stops killing my rpaths
<yorick>
I'm just about to give up and put my bios updates on a fat32 usb stick like my ancestors before me
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<catern>
yorick: hmm that's pretty shitty
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<catern>
yorick: is it just me, or are the responses from hughsie/superm1 on that ticket, completely missing the issue?
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<yorick>
catern: they are but I've gotten used to that on github issues
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<catern>
yorick: hmm, maybe The Right Way to do the udevdir/systemdsystemunitdir thing is to override them at the level of pkgconfig?
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<catern>
i've never used meson but I was/am tentatively interested in it as a replacement for autotools that is nice for packages while not being awful
<catern>
nice for packagers*
<catern>
it seems it is not in fact nice for packagers
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<yorick>
it can be nice if the upstream includes options for things and they don't make the assumption packagers don't need rpaths
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<catern>
right well, given that it isn't currently doing that
<catern>
it seems that it is not nice for packages
<catern>
packagers****
<catern>
and it's no better than the rest of the autotools-replacing crowd :(
<catern>
or maybe fwupd is just awful :)
<yorick>
fwupd is rather gnomey in that it expects all sorts of dependencies that are all configured properly
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<seagreen>
Does anyone know how to get a microsoft lifecam webcam working on nixos? It used to work a couple years ago. Alteratively, does anyone know of a webcam that does work? (cross posted to /r/nixos)
<seagreen>
(To clarify, it used to work a couple years ago on NixOS, and still works on other OSes. Not sure what's changed in Nixpkgs since then)
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<pbogdan>
without the deviceSection entry and setting driver to "intel" rather than "modesetting" I was getting same error as you so maybe it will work for you too, otherwise not sure what could be causing the issue :-(
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<nwuensche>
pbogdan: When I configure illum, I get: ==8538==ERROR: LeakSanitizer: detected memory leaks. I installed it via nix-env, is this a problem?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v7NhX
<sphalerite>
but I can't ping any IPv6 stuff or curl ipv6.google.com or anything. No "network is unreachable" errors or anything, I just don't seem to be getting anything back
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<sphalerite>
I think I might have overused the word "anything" there
<disasm>
sphalerite: I'm digging into it
<disasm>
sphalerite: I think your netmask should be /64
<disasm>
you have /128 in your config
<sphalerite>
disasm: I don't think so — that would be if enp3s0 connected to that network
<sphalerite>
but it connects to the internet, so there's no LAN basically
<sphalerite>
I could set up another network with /64 (with containers or VMs or whatever) and then the server could act as the gateway for that network
<sphalerite>
but I'm reasonably sure that /128 is the right thing to use for its public address. I did also try with /64 previously I believe
<disasm>
sphalerite: is this a dedicated or virtual?
<sphalerite>
and again just now — still no love
<sphalerite>
yes, dedicated
<disasm>
yeah, pretty sure you get a /64: In principle the above applies to IPv6 as well. But instead of a single main IP, you get a /64 block.
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<sphalerite>
yeah, but that's not what I want to set on the interface that goes to the internet
<sphalerite>
otherwise it'll try to reach anything else within the same prefix on that interface, which will fail because it connects to the internet and not to the containers or VMs or whatever
<sphalerite>
regardless, it doesn't work either way
<sphalerite>
nothing helpful in the firewall logs either
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<sphalerite>
oh, hm
<sphalerite>
Tried running tcpdump to see if I could get anything useful
<sphalerite>
22:06:26.771146 IP6 lugn > gateway: ICMP6, neighbor solicitation, who has gateway, length 32
<sphalerite>
didn't get any response to this
<disasm>
ah, ok
<disasm>
so you're planning on setting up a bridge with the /64 for containers, I seee
<sphalerite>
something like that
<sphalerite>
in any case I don't want the server to try sending traffic that's for its LAN to its gateway
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<sphalerite>
because it won't reach its destination that way :)
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<construct_>
Hi everyone, I installed Nix (not NixOS), but when I want to install a package, I get the following error. localhost:~$ nix-env -iA nixos.torbrowser error: attribute ‘nixos’ in selection path ‘nixos.torbrowser’ not found
<sphalerite>
construct_: use nixpkgs instead of nixos
<construct_>
Also, where are the instructions on how to install a package? I can only find instructions on how to install nix or nixos
<disasm>
sphalerite: so, first thing I'd do is verify you have the right ipv6 prefix hetzner assigned you. You should be able to ping -6 fe80::1 if you do.
<sphalerite>
disasm: connect: Invalid argument
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<sphalerite>
ping6 fe80::1 (in a nix-shell with inetutils) works though
<construct_>
sphalerite: does the 'small' attribute mean it's available to nix package management outside of nix os? And when adding the channel, do I include the curly braces stipulations?
<sphalerite>
disasm: just realised ,that's because I didn't specify the interface
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<disasm>
sphalerite: yeah, -I enp3s0
<disasm>
so ping works?
<sphalerite>
yep, works on enp3s0
<sphalerite>
yes
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<sphalerite>
construct_: no, all of them are available outside nixos. -small channels have a smaller test set so they can update more quickly to get security patches out fast
<disasm>
cool, so next thing to do is setup your bridge as a /64 and launch a container and see if it can connect
<sphalerite>
disasm: I don't want to set a bridge or anything up yet, I want to start by getting the dedicated server to even talk to the outside world via ipv6 :p
<gchristensen>
sphalerite: another important point is -small channels only build a very small number of packages all together, whereas not-small's build almost every package , and wait for them to all be passed or failed before "finishing"
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<disasm>
sphalerite: oh, if you can ping the gateway, then try pinging 2001:19f0:5:5ce:5400:ff:fe5e:4473
<sphalerite>
nope, nothing
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<sphalerite>
I mean, are the details of why -small is faster to upgrade that important?
<gchristensen>
for developers, yes
<sphalerite>
fair enough
<construct_>
sphalerite: and gchristensen: what kind of checks are done with the notsmall channels that aren't done with the small channels? Do the checks make the packages more secure (besides the fact that the small packages are updated faster and thus more secure in that regard)?
<sphalerite>
disasm: I've also compared it closely to the route setup on another hetzner server which is running debian and working just fine, I see no material differences in the route table
<manveru>
can anyone help me figure out how to get rid of gcc dependency for ruby gems?
<gchristensen>
more secure? no, but the -small channels perform more minimal validation that software actually works, whereas the large nixos channel makes sure mysql clustering works, sound, firefox, kde, gtk, etc. all work
<sphalerite>
construct_: they're more expensive tests for things that you probably want working on a desktop machine but aren't really relevant for servers
<sphalerite>
so as a rule of thumb, regular channel for desktops/laptops, -small channel for servers (and a nice short auto-update interval)
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<construct_>
Thanks gchristensen and sphalerite. I'll use the large channels since I'm a desktop user.
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<gchristensen>
sounds good :)
<disasm>
sphalerite: I dunno, if you can ping fe80::1 that leads me to believe that gateway isn't setup to route for you, which would be an incorrect prefix I would assume.
<construct_>
I'm actually on Alpine Linux because it has grsecurity.
<construct_>
:)
<gchristensen>
grsecurity isn't a thing anymore
<sphalerite>
^
<construct_>
I know
<construct_>
lol
<construct_>
It might be a thing again since it's violating Linux's license
<disasm>
sphalerite: you could also try a traceroute but I can't find a traceroute6 package
<gchristensen>
IMO if you're still using grsecurity (and not paying for it,) you're harming yourself by being out of date
<construct_>
as closed source
<sphalerite>
not really, no
<gchristensen>
(the specifics of the licensing debate probably don't belong here)
<sphalerite>
AFAIU, grsecurity can distribute their patches under the GPL with the (implied?) contract that if their clients redistribute it, they don't receive any further patches
<construct_>
Is the nix unstable channel branch okay for desktop-laptop users?
<gchristensen>
construct_: are you running nixos?
<construct_>
gchristensen: nope
<gchristensen>
then no
<gchristensen>
that is dangerous
<construct_>
ok thanks
<manveru>
this is the output of `nix-store -q --tree` ... but i have no clue why it depends on gcc, how do i find out where this comes from? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/j0hdpXET/
<gchristensen>
it doesn't have any checks like "will it boot" or "can it successfully create a boot loader entry"
<clever>
manveru: grep for the path of gcc in the node
<gchristensen>
which also implies no test like "hmm does this gcc trip some weird bug and cause ext4 to lose your data"
<ixxie>
gchristensen: do you know who is responsible for the Nix user wiki?
<clever>
manveru: gcc is one node down the tree from nokogiri, so the path of gcc must exist somewhere inside nokogiri
<construct_>
gchristensen: thanks, good to know
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<manveru>
so it's linked by /nix/store/bmqwi6kpc2vfrbr4vks4w9n3bhp0fpqc-ruby2.4.1-nokogiri-1.7.2/lib/ruby/gems/2.4.0/gems/nokogiri-1.7.2/ext/nokogiri/nokogiri.so
<gchristensen>
ixxie: Mic92 does
<gchristensen>
ixxie: Mic92 does know
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Ericson2314 opened pull request #28322: darwin stdenv: Float `persistentN` bindings into per-stage `let`s (master...darwin-boot) https://git.io/v7ALq
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<clever>
manveru: now try using patchelf --print-rpath on that .so
<gchristensen>
ixxie: tbh I wouldn't ask for permission
<magnetophon>
sphalerite: thanks
<construct_>
gchristensen: wouldn't it be a good idea to have a different abstraction label for the latest large, stable channel than a version number, so that I don't have to keep updating the channel when a new one comes out? What if I don't pay attention to the nixos news, won't I be left behind on the older stable version? How will I know?
<ixxie>
gchristensen: well I got started but I am just not sure how to manipulate the sidebar, is all
<manveru>
/nix/store/cz6hpw1n6xmfadq7fsg5va0mrb1kysk8-gcc-5.4.0/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/5.4.0/crtbeginS.o and /nix/store/cz6hpw1n6xmfadq7fsg5va0mrb1kysk8-gcc-5.4.0/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/5.4.0/crtendS.o
<manveru>
hmm
<gchristensen>
construct_: yes that is a problem
<manveru>
mabye this could be statically compiled?
<clever>
manveru: sounds like debug info is present, does "file" agree with that?
<clever>
manveru: (run file directly on the so file)
<manveru>
jup
<sphalerite>
construct_: the issue with having a nixos-stable channel is that new stable releases may introduce breaking changes
<manveru>
ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, not stripped
<clever>
manveru: then your build needs to run strip on that library
<manveru>
let's see if i can do that :)
<sphalerite>
construct_: so we don't want to have users upgrade to a new stable version without knowing what might break
<sphalerite>
(or without knowing they're even doing so)
<gchristensen>
construct_: but yes it is problematic :(
<clever>
sphalerite: i feel the same about system.autoUpgrade
<manveru>
clever: thanks, looks like gems default to dontStrip = true
<magnetophon>
gchristensen: Why do you not recommend unstable for non-NixOS users, but implicitly say it's OK for NixOS users? Genuine question, trying to understand...
<sphalerite>
clever: I guess that setting only really makes sense on the stable channel?
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<gchristensen>
magnetophon: I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. where did I not recommend unstable for non-nixos users and implicitly say it is okay for nixos users?
<clever>
sphalerite: it feels like a recipe for instability and endless disk usage
<dash>
ungh. Any suggestions on getting a browser with java plugin support? i gotta use an ancient website
<dash>
i see 'icedtea8_web'
<sphalerite>
clever: I don't really think "what might this break" every time I do nix-channel --update
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<clever>
sphalerite: but you should still have a general idea of how many generations back to go if you ever want to rollback from grub
<construct_>
sphalerite: and gchristensen: okay thanks for letting me know it's not the best idea. I'll keep checking back for news on the latest releases then and update channels manually. Although my suggestion might be okay to have as an opt-in option.
<clever>
and an extra 200 of spam makes that harder
<sphalerite>
fair enough
<magnetophon>
gchristensen: this conversation: (10:37:47 PM) construct_: Is the nix unstable channel branch okay for desktop-laptop users? (10:37:57 PM) gchristensen: construct_: are you running nixos? (10:38:06 PM) construct_: gchristensen: nope (10:38:08 PM) gchristensen: then no (10:38:12 PM) gchristensen: that is dangerous
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<construct_>
How often should I check back for news to the next release? In other words how often do next releases occur?
<disasm>
I'll probly go back to stable by default and grab individual packages from unstable once 17.09 goes stable :) It's been fun having random stuff stop working on rebuilds and fix a day later though!
<sphalerite>
construct_: every ~6 months
<gchristensen>
oh, dang, magnetophon I misunderstood
<disasm>
or a week later sometimes :)
<gchristensen>
construct_: back when I said it was dangerous I should have said it isn't dangerous!
<gchristensen>
users of just nix (ie: not users of nixos) can safely use nixpkgs-unstable
<sphalerite>
disasm: traceroute to fe80::1%enp3s0 works fine but traceroute to any external IP doesn't even show the gateway hop…
<gchristensen>
nixos users should not use nixpkgs-unstable
<magnetophon>
gchristensen: why shouldn't they?
<construct_>
gchristensen: really?
<gchristensen>
here we go
<magnetophon>
gchristensen: I get the feeling there are more people running unstable on their desktop then there are running stable
<gchristensen>
the nixpkgs-unstable channel is unsafe to use for `nixos-rebuild` due to the lack of fitness testing around the revision being used as an operating system.
<gchristensen>
magnetophon: I'm saying _nixpkgs_-instable not _nixos_-unstable.
<sphalerite>
major distinction: nixpkgs-unstable vs nixos-unstable
<LnL>
kinda important :D
<construct_>
sphalerite: are there different channels for nixos users versus nix package users?
<sphalerite>
construct_: there are two different unstable channels. But see what gchristensen just linked
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Ericson2314 pushed 4 new commits to staging: https://git.io/v7AtQ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging eeabf85 John Ericson: stdenvs: Distinguish between `extraBuildInputs` and `extraNativeBuildInputs`...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 220e381 John Ericson: findutils: Manually specify sort's location...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 63428eb John Ericson: diffutils: coreutils is a run-time dep; specify pr's location
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<construct_>
sphalerite: ok, I'll check it out
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<magnetophon>
sorry to be a noob. where can I read more on that distinction in this context? I know nixpkgs is the collection of pkgs, and NixOS is the OS built around that collection, but why is one OK in this context and the other not?
<gchristensen>
magnetophon: my link describes it
* magnetophon
goes to read that link
<magnetophon>
gchristensen: thanks
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<construct_>
I just read the link. Do the checks for nixos channel apply to a different os?
<sphalerite>
Not really because they're relevant to stuff that doesn't apply on another OS
<sphalerite>
like the kernel, the bootloader installation and config generation, etc
<construct_>
*do the /extra/ checks for the nixos channel apply to a different os?
<sphalerite>
mostly, that is
<construct_>
What about X?
<gchristensen>
the nixos-* channel tests only run those tests on nixos
<sphalerite>
Depends on how much you use nix and how much you use the host OS's functionality
<gchristensen>
if you're running X from nix on a different OS, you should probably just switch to nixos
<sphalerite>
^
<manveru>
clever: thanks, got the closure size to 1/3 :)
<clever>
manveru: yay
<construct_>
Hmm, running X from nix on a different OS... Maybe then I'll be able to get gnome running on alpine linux! lol
<manveru>
now just have to figure out how to do that safely for all gems with extensions
<gchristensen>
construct_: or just go to nixos >.>
<construct_>
I still value grsecurity.
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<sphalerite>
as gchristensen said before, you're likely doing more harm than good to yourself by using the outdated patches
<sphalerite>
better to use an up-to-date kernel without the patches than an old one with them
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<Judson>
I know almost nothing here but: is it Nix related that LLDB 4.0 doesn't have Go support?
<construct_>
Speaking of how alpine linux needs work (gnome doesnt work yet), maybe I may suggest nixos emulate the gobolinux hierarchy? I'm very fond of it. Alpine is going to switch to a similar hierarchy in another year or so. What do you think?
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<Judson>
The language enum seems to include it, but lldb> languages doesn't list it
<gchristensen>
not sure what we'd get out o fit
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<simpson>
construct_: What's the goal? What problems does the Nix store have which you want to solve?
<sphalerite>
construct_: not sure if GNOME will ever run on non-systemd-based distros again
<sphalerite>
well maybe it already does (gentoo?)
<sphalerite>
but I think there'll just be more and more hoops to jump through, and GNOME and Alpine just generally isn't a good fit purpose-wise
<Judson>
But gentoo can be systemd based, and it's still a nightmare to get Gnome 3 working
<construct_>
simpson: I'm not sure how the filesystem hierarchy compares between gobolinux and nixos.
<simpson>
construct_: But you're fond of one and not the other?
<sphalerite>
construct_: then maybe you should check how nix's hierarchy works before suggesting moving to another one ;)
<sphalerite>
it's a similar concept, but nix's is better because it's more precise
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<construct_>
sphalerite and gchristensen: that might be a good point that new kernels are better than old ones. But a lot of the vulnerabilities that affect new versions of the vanilla kernel don't hurt grsecurity because it is built to be invulnerable to whole classes of vulnerablities.
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<sphalerite>
construct_: there may be vulnerabilities even in grsecurity. No way of knowing since it's not publicly released anymore. Still better to use an up-to-date version
<construct_>
sphalerite: cool, can I have link please to understand the structure of nixos filesystem hierarchy?
<construct_>
sphalerite: cool, I guess gobolinux is obsolete! lol
<construct_>
Can I request that nixos use grsecurity, even if they have to pay for it?
<sphalerite>
"they" = ?
<simpson>
You can ask for anything~
<simpson>
construct_: No, basically somebody would eventually ask for the patches, and there'd be no way to keep them secret, and then NixOS would be banned from future patchsets.
<Judson>
Might it be possible to have an end user set up a private channel for grsec?
<gchristensen>
construct_: if you wanted to pay someone to maintain it in nixpkgs it could be done, but each user would need to provide your own source to it
<simpson>
construct_: If *you* want to pay the cost and have the patches for yourself, you may do so.
<simpson>
And, as gchristensen says, we may even be able to upstream the Nix expressions that build it, like we do for other closed-source software.
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<gchristensen>
someone would need to pay for the patches and probably pay the person to maintain it (since the license wouldn't otherwise extend to hem)
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<construct_>
How long does it take to build a nix package from source? Trying to see if I can maintain it myself.
<gchristensen>
sphalerite: also minus the build cache :P
<sphalerite>
sssshhhh we don't talk about that :D
<bennofs>
gchristensen: could you make a cache that only contains the binaries and not the source?
<gchristensen>
bennofs: no, because then you can't access them
<bennofs>
gchristensen: if the sources have a hash?
<gchristensen>
also _we cannot distribute them_
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<sphalerite>
bennofs: that would be a GPL violation :)
<construct_>
Next question on how to maintain packages (which I've never done before), do I need to run and maintain a server if I want to share the package, and how do you compile a linux kernel? I've tried compiling the linux kernel before when gresecurity was open source and before I knew about alpine linux using it, but it took hours. There must be a quicker way...
<gchristensen>
construct_: you can rent access to powerful computers that build faster
<sphalerite>
construct_: the kernel is a lot of code. The only way to make it faster really is to throw more computing power at it
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<construct_>
It wasn't the build time that was the problem, it was the configuration.
<construct_>
So I might have mispoke, I think maybe I was configuring the kernel that took too long. I just started pressing the default option without reading it just to finish, and it still took hours, so I stopped.
<sphalerite>
it will take hours to build on a regular machine
<sphalerite>
that's normal
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<construct_>
Interesting
<sphalerite>
you can't do much about it without spending hours of your own time figuring out what you do and don't need
<construct_>
sphalerite: But again, I'd still need to know how to configure a kernel.
<sphalerite>
Alright, you do that, have fun
<bennofs>
sphalerite: still better than chromium :)
<sphalerite>
yes lol
<bennofs>
or libreoffice
<bennofs>
i think i let libreoffice compile for about 2 days before i stopped it?
<gchristensen>
chromium takes 8hrs on my box
<sphalerite>
rustc on arm is also fun
<Judson>
bennofs I'm trying to use it with Go. But the Nix lldb-4.0 doesn't seem to recognize Go?
<Judson>
And I don't know anything like enough to determine why.
<Judson>
Does this lldb have Go enabled? If not, why not?
<simpson>
construct_: If you are building a relatively full kernel, with many modules, then you can generally accelerate the build by throwing more cores at it. You don't need to build packages for the community to be a maintainer, but you probably will want to build packages for yourself to be certain that they work.
<Judson>
The old-ish posts I've read about this say "3.7 doesn't have it merged, so build from trunk"
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<bennofs>
Judson: hmm, why not use gdb?
<construct_>
simpson: to be certain they work before releasing them for others?
<bennofs>
Judson: pretty sure gdb should have go support
<Judson>
Does gdb support Go?
<Judson>
I wasn't aware of that...
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<bennofs>
Judson: oh, a quick google said it wasn't so great... weird, I think i read something about special go support
<Judson>
lldb *does* have special go support, which looks rad but...
<simpson>
construct_: Well, what's the alternative? Do you think that it's okay for a maintainer to release software without testing it first?
<Judson>
can haz plz?
<construct_>
simpson: no I had a different question in my mind.
<sphalerite>
Judson: maybe it needs the compiler present at build time or something. Maybe (but this is all just a guess) adding go to its buildInputs will make it work, magically.
<simpson>
construct_: If you look at contributions to nixpkgs, e.g. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/21429 from my history, there's a pile of checkboxes indicating what has and hasn't been tested. We try to be certain that at least *somebody* has verified that the code works.
<construct_>
simpson: the question was how do I not build packages to maintain them/release them for others?
<Judson>
I sort of imagined that might be the case sphalerite, but was hoping someone would know for sure.
<simpson>
construct_: How do you *not* build packages for others? Like, when you're just building a package locally? I'm not sure I understand the question.
<Judson>
That would be a lot of compilers to make available
<sphalerite>
Judson: the idiomatic go approach is probably to just fiddle around with the code until it stops segfaulting — who needs debuggers? :D
<construct_>
simpson: you said, "You don't need to build packages for the community to be a maintainer"
<sphalerite>
(sorry, useless cynical comments. I should probably go to bed.)
<simpson>
construct_: Oh! That's because building packages is something that is done for the community by a community service, not by individual maintainers. NixOS isn't like some distros where maintainers upload individual package files.
<Judson>
Sigh. Speaking as a working Go programmer, you're not far off the mark.
<bennofs>
Judson: hmm, at least on archlinux it appears to work if i use lldb installed from nix
<bennofs>
3 func main() {
<bennofs>
-> 4 fmt.Println("go" + "lang")
<construct_>
simpson: sound like nix is more efficient then. Can you elaborate a little or let me read a link about the difference?
<bennofs>
let me quickly uninstall lldb via pacman to see if perhaps some search path gets messed up...
<construct_>
simpson: and thanks for clearing that up! :)
<bennofs>
Judson: what channel are you on?
<simpson>
construct_: You've already been linked. I think that you need to see how Nix works as a build tool first.
<construct_>
simpson: i'll search my open tabs lol
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<Judson>
bennofs unstable
<sphalerite>
construct_: ^ I linked you to the manual several times, and it answers most of your questions and more. Try reading it, please? :)
<yorick>
catern: okay, now it needs working gvfs-info mimetype detection
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<bennofs>
Judson: what happens when you run lldb? i at least get a source listing, although stepping to the next line doesn't work very well...
<bennofs>
Judson: or in other words: how do I know if my lldb supports Go?
<construct_>
sphalerite: I'm sorry but it's the biggest manual ever. which keyword should I search for to skip to the good stuff without having to read the whole thing? I'm a super slow reader :(
<sphalerite>
I linked you to specific sections as well
<construct_>
Ok I'll start reading there. Thank you
<Judson>
I get assembly, no source code.
<construct_>
embarrassing
<bennofs>
Judson: perhaps someone stripped debug info from your binary?
<sphalerite>
Slow reading shouldn't be an obstacle, reading it is the easy part. Absorbing it is a bit more complex (and useful, unlike just reading it :p )
<simpson>
construct_: The big thing to understand is that Nix is *isolated*. Packages are built and run in environments with next-to-nothing in them aside from a few essentials and whatever build inputs were specified.
<simpson>
If you know what POLA is, Nix is a POLA build tool and NixOS is a POLA distro.
<bennofs>
Judson: have you tested with a small example?
<joepie91>
simpson: right, wasn't clear whether you were referring to the A of Authority or Astonishment :P
<ixxie>
gchristensen: the other caveat is timeframe - I am starting a new job in September and have a deadline for a proposal at the end of that month too. So in October is when I could start giving this more serious time.
<simpson>
construct_: The "least-authority" phrasing comes from capability-based security research, where "authority" is some ability to cause an effect. POLA then states that it's a desirable property for each piece of the system to only be able to cause the effects needed to fulfill its purpose.
<construct_>
simpson: yes I know. I said I'm familiar with it.
<simpson>
construct_: Sorry, I guess I err on the side of people not being familiar with caps. Also I literally have a "LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT OBJECT-CAPABILITY SECURITY" shirt.
<construct_>
simpson: I first learned about POLA when I read about capscacin.
<construct_>
simpson: that's great! you tell 'em!
<construct_>
:)
<construct_>
lol
<ixxie>
gchristensen: do I need extensive knowledge of gnome internals?
<yorick>
I think this guy thinks I am an alien. they've probably settled on `pkg-config systemd --variable=systemdsystemunitdir` should not be /nix/store/*-systemd/ and maybe should even contain $out
<simpson>
And if I go, of course I'm wearing that shirt.
<gchristensen>
ixxie: I know almost nothing about Gnome, but I know a good bit about how Nix works :P we'd have to explore
<ixxie>
awesome
<gchristensen>
october is a ways off, but october is better than never
<ixxie>
gchristensen: is there a small task I could start with? I can start trying to do something even now
<ixxie>
I mean, the coming weeks
<bennofs>
Judson: (i compiled the binary with `go build variables.go`)
<Judson>
Huh.
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<Judson>
The magic was `b main.main`
<gchristensen>
ixxie: I honestly have no idea. here is what I know: nobody is currently maintaining gnome packages. I can do some research to find out for you (or you could do the research :)) but I imagine at least a package upgrade is in order
<Judson>
bennofs, thank you for walking this through for me.
<construct_>
simpson: sounds fun!
<simpson>
Does anybody happen to have insight into how modern Ruby nixpkgs expressions are made? I want to rebuild the jekyll expression to have a plugin, and maybe a new theme, and I don't know how I'll make it configurable but I'd at least like to do it custom for me.
<ixxie>
gchristensen: there was an issue somewhere listing gnome issues to be dealt with
<construct_>
simpson: Ohhh. I just read your paper submission message. I get it now. Good luck! :D
<mnie>
does anyone here happen to have a nixpkg definition for installation of dotnet-core-sdk-2.0.0?... or perhaps care to share some tips on how a nix-rookie might create it himself? (I already tried creating it by seeking inspiration in https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/tree/master/pkgs/applications/misc/adobe-reader, but I couldn't figure out how to add dependencies such as libunwind...)
<simpson>
construct_: Thanks. Feel free to /join #erights for ocap chat or #monte for Monte-specific stuff.
<gchristensen>
simpson: I don't know about jekyll but I know about ruby
<construct_>
simpson: are you designing your own programming language called E?
<construct_>
simpson: I mean monte, not e. monte is a successor to E
<simpson>
construct_: Yes, I'm one of the two main people working on Monte.
<gchristensen>
ixxie: sounds like sphalerite (lheckemann) would be a good contact too
<dash>
construct_: E was designed by some smart guys in the late 90s (a few of whom are on the JavaScript standards committe now), Monte is simpson's and my successor to it with a few modern tweaks
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<construct_>
simpson: Cool! You could make it bug free by using Isabelle, the proof assistant.
<simpson>
gchristensen: Okay. So, mostly I *think* I just need to change a Gemfile and then rerun whatever generated the jekyll expression. Is that bundix?
<gchristensen>
yep!
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<dash>
construct_: I want to hear more, come visit us and explain :)
<simpson>
construct_: We have a contributor who got the first little bits down in Coq. A proper formalism would be so much work, but I can't deny the temptation.
* dash
taking a deep breath and getting ready to switch his home server/NAS to nixos
<simpson>
dash: Oh jeez. Good luck!
<ixxie>
gchristensen: good to know thats the same person :) and yes!
<gchristensen>
dash: dooiitt
<dash>
zfs works real good, right?
<gchristensen>
real good
<dash>
ok great
<dash>
I have a non-zfs root for simplicity's sake
<gchristensen>
sure, that is fine
<construct_>
dash: which one should I say more at, erights or monte?
<ixxie>
gchristensen: and jtojnar
<sphalerite>
ixxie: yes, sorry for being confusing. I wanted to be sphalerite on github but it was taken :(
<gchristensen>
ixxie: you're ready to take this on I think :D
<ixxie>
sphalerite: yeah thats how it goes :)
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<ixxie>
gchristensen: yeah, and if not, I will be after I start ^^
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<catern>
yorick: :(
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<yorick>
catern: the patch works to make it fail in mimetype stuff
<yorick>
catern: I could patch that out while I'm at it, maybe :D
<gchristensen>
ixxie: I'm so excited! please ask me for help if you need help.
<ixxie>
thanks gchristensen :) it seems I already do all the time anyways xD
<construct_>
dash: nvm I should talk at monte, not erights
<ixxie>
gchristensen: on another note, inspired by your nix-pills effort, I want to help organize the wiki. I started by creating a sidebar with the important pages and consolitating the bookmarks
<gchristensen>
awesome :d
<ixxie>
gchristensen: I plan to make an agenda for this in the coming week or so, just like you did
<MP2E>
6hahaha
<MP2E>
oops
<MP2E>
but yeah that dwarf fortress post, great stuff
<gchristensen>
ixxie: <3 incredible, that is so cool
<gchristensen>
ixxie: if you send me your address, I'll send you some nixos stickers
<Judson>
I ran into that trying to update cockroachdb...
<simpson>
gchristensen: So, I tried running bundix from 17.03, and it tried to write to the Nix store. The underlying problem seems to be that bundler wants to write to the store. Have you run into this?
<ixxie>
gchristensen: woo thank you :) I will
<gchristensen>
simpson: ugh, yes
<gchristensen>
simpson: can you get bundix from unstable?
<Judson>
I did some update to bundix ... I dunno if that got merged?
<Judson>
That included "if you can't write to /nix, don't try"
<simpson>
I will grab from master, actually; one second.
<gchristensen>
ixxie: do you mind if I edit your pill #5 slightly before I merge?
<phdoerfler>
the nix file for dovecot contains this line "dovecot requires mailUser and mailGroup to be set when sieveScripts is set". Does that mean I can't have my Maildir in ~?
<Judson>
manveru wrote to /nix because they have to be downloaded there anyway, so you save a set of network pulls if you have the perms
<ixxie>
gchristensen: of course not, I defer to you on that one ^^
<ixxie>
what went wrong?
<ixxie>
the broken troll face?
<ixxie>
:P
<gchristensen>
I'm going to delete the broken troll face (no need to have that in there officially, even though it is in the original ... :)) but also dedent to 2-space indent
<gchristensen>
and squash
<ixxie>
Right
<ixxie>
I was curious about that, because often 4 space indent is standard
<simpson>
gchristensen: I need to download a few hundred MiB to my store; please hold. My shell.nix contains my entire blogging environment, so, uh, yeah.
<gchristensen>
simpson: :D
<gchristensen>
its too wide by the time you get to <para> ixxie :P leaves so little for text
<tilpner>
Judson - I have no idea what building a GOPATH means :/
<ixxie>
gchristensen: I can do this for pill 6; what col width should I use for squashing?
<ixxie>
gchristensen: my rewrap entension defaults to 80
<Judson>
When `go build` happens, if you don't have a GOPATH env set, or you aren't under $GOPATH/src/github.com/something/something, `go build` will ignore the vendor/ dir
<gchristensen>
ixxie: I've been doing 80
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<gchristensen>
ixxie: want to do #5 too? they seem to both be in the same PR for #5 :)
<gchristensen>
(which is fine, I'll just merge both when you're done)
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<Judson>
simpson, gchristensen, manveru: I did PR#11 because I needed some other features, but they weren't urgent until the work I was doing on bundleEnv got merged.
<Judson>
Now that they are...
<ixxie>
gchristensen: no problem
<simpson>
Judson: This is *not* critical to me; the personal impact of fixing this is that I can remove some JS from my blog.
<ixxie>
gchristensen: would you object if I wrote /trollface instead of the trollface? That way we capture the spirit of it
<Judson>
I'd just like to be able to use `bundix` instead of ~/dev/bundix/bin/bundix :)
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<gchristensen>
thank you, ixxie!
<gchristensen>
merged
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<tnias>
hey, i am currently trying to write a service module, my problem is the daemon wants tries to open its config with readwrite permissions.. is there an easy way to make it not crash?
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<ixxie>
gchristensen: np :)
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<ixxie>
gchristensen: just added the preface thingy, real quick two liner
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<jtojnar>
tnias: report as an upstream bug?
<tnias>
jtojnar: I think it is supposed to be able to modify its config from an applet
<tnias>
jtojnar: copying the config (generated by nixos config) to /etc/ before each start does not seem like a clean way
<jtojnar>
maybe they could be convinced to grey out the settings when the file is not writable
<jtojnar>
or just display an error
<jtojnar>
imho apps should not crash for reasons they can react to
<tnias>
jtojnar: sounds reasonable, i'll see what I can do
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<taktoa>
is there a good reason why github.com/NixOS/nixos still exists? have we thought about making it private, deleting it (with a backup), or moving it to another user/organization?
<taktoa>
sometimes when I google for nixos stuff I get results from that repo and I doubt any code in the wild still depends on its existence
<taktoa>
(and if there is code in the wild that depends on it, those people should probably be notified that they are Doing It Wrong)
<taktoa>
domenkozar: I'm guessing you might know the answer to that question ^ ?
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<taktoa>
whoa you can `import /nix/store/...-foobar.drv` and it will evaluate to a derivation
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<viaken>
So, near as I can tell, squid doesn't have config hooks yet. How do I enable the service and configure it?