<ben>
Can I disable the kernel and the initrd in nixos?
<ben>
Like if I only wanna be userland.
<disasm>
ben: you mean boot a different linux system and use nix?
<ben>
Not really
<ben>
Run nixos, but booting from someone else's kernel
<ben>
I still want it to be in charge of all the services and everything.
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<gchristensen>
ben: may I ask why you want to do that?
<ben>
gchristensen: I'm playing around with the cloud VMs offered by scaleway and they appear to give you a limited set of option for kernel+initrd combinations
<catern>
gchristensen: the release.nix in the nix repo
<ben>
I sorta manage to start nixos, roughly, but besides the part where all the stuff the initrd is supposed to do isn't done, I get a bunch of random errors and warnings about how it can't do all the things it's used to
<gchristensen>
ben: ohh yes that is tricky
<ben>
(most critically it doesn't seem to mount /run so I don't have /run/current-system/sw/bin/bash, so root can't login :') )
<gchristensen>
catern: hmm not sure, other than maybe the one in the nix repo is designed more for dev, or packaging outside of nix (like debs, rpms, etc.)
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<clever>
ben: boot.isContainer will turn off the kernel and a number of other things, might turn off too much though
<ben>
ah!
<clever>
ben: and to make /run exist, you must run the init script in /nix/var/nix/profiles/system/init
<clever>
normally, the absolute path to that is embeded into grub.cfg
<clever>
and you have a choice between different builds
<ben>
cool
<ben>
thanks :)
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<catern>
that's a bit unfortunate for me perhaps, since I want to make my own modifications to itwanting t
<catern>
so that it sets up a multi-user installation instead of a single-user one
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* catern
wonders if he should set up a full mirror of the nixos-homepage...
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<disasm>
catern: probably what you want in that case is to create your own tarball
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<catern>
yeah
<catern>
that's what I started doing
<catern>
but then I realized that if someone subsequently installed Nix
<catern>
they wouldn't have my customizations
<catern>
oh I neglected to mention that I have some customizations I want to do too :)
<catern>
anyway
<catern>
for now I'll have a script on top of the tarball install, and later on I'll build my own tarball that does everything right and has the correct patches to change defaults to what I want
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<catern>
hey #nixos
<catern>
which of gcroots/profiles/temproots should be world-writable in a multi-user Nix install?
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<disasm>
catern: another option would be a wrapper script that installs the default nix, and then does something similar to what sphalerite does with his dotfiles repo: clone your customizations to /nix-base-setup run nix-env -f /nix-base-setup -ir (see: https://github.com/lheckemann/dotfiles)
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<catern>
er sorry what exactly would that do?
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<jake__>
clever: running boot, pushd and popd are not found
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<jake__>
clever: as a result all the devices are in root
<disasm>
catern: it would install everything configured in default.nix from the base setup repo.
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<catern>
oh I see
<catern>
I didn't get what you meant by clone
<catern>
but you meant git clone :)
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<disasm>
yeah :)
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<disasm>
catern: I haven't done much nix outside of nixos myself, but I think only /nix/var/nix/profiles/per-user and /nix/var/nix/gcroots/per-user should be world writeable.
<catern>
ok
<catern>
btw, why doesn't the daemon just handle making gc roots?
<catern>
that seems like that would allow creating some actual policy/mechanism later on
<catern>
about what kind of gc roots could be made
<catern>
or quota about how much store space you can keep live
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<clever>
jake__: oh, it probably needs bash, not sh
<clever>
jake__: just normal cd dev and cd .. should also work the same
<jake__>
clever: i did that, but now it doesnt work at all
<jake__>
clever: mkdir isn't found, fork can't allocate memory, and wait_for has no record of the process
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<dtzWill>
meow meow
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<ebzzry>
With regards to Nix, what are the consequences of changing a username?
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<nixy>
ebzzry: What do you mean by that? Changing them using something like `usermod` or in configuration.nix
<nixy>
If the user isn't managed through configuration.nix, then it probably won't. It could also depend on how the user is definied in configuration.nix
<nixy>
I believe if the users.users.<name>.uid is unset it will see the user doesn't exist and create it with a new UID
<nixy>
If it is set, then it should change that user to match the described parameters.
<nixy>
Note that I am saying "should" and "believe" as I haven't tested these. It would probably be better to either manage users entirely through normal unix utils or entirely through configuration.nix
<ebzzry>
nixy: How about if it is declared in extraUsers?
<ebzzry>
nixy: in configuration.nix
<nixy>
extraUsers is just an alias of users.users, so same thing
<nixy>
If you already have a user I would find their UID, set that in the extraUsers then make any name changes you want to make
<nixy>
You will also want to set the home variable to point to their old home directory.
<ebzzry>
nixy: Ok, so if the user is declared in users.extraUsers with a uid, all I need to do is to change the username in configuration.nix?
<nixy>
Looks like it. Since I am unsure on this I would recommend creating a new user to test this before making any changes to a user you care about
<ebzzry>
Also, will it automatically rename /home/oldname to /home/newnawe?
<nixy>
ebzzry: No, it wouldn't do that. That is why I suggested you set `users.extraUsers.newname.home = /home/oldname`
<ebzzry>
Ok, if that’s the case, then can I manually rename oldname to newname?
<ebzzry>
Before or after nixos-rebuild?
<nixy>
Yeah you could do that. I think it would be better to do that before
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<ebzzry>
Ok. What will happen to ~/.nix-profile? Will it update the symlink?
<nixy>
I don't believe it would. My understanding is it only creates the users .nix-profile if it doesn't exist
<nixy>
You could move ~/.nix-profile to ~/.nix-profile.old
<ebzzry>
nixy: So, if I’m going to move .nix-profile, that means I have to redo all nix-env commands that I have made?
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<nixy>
Yes, the "new" user would have their own set of profiles in `/nix/var/nix/profiles/per-user/new-user`
<nixy>
Each profile in that directory is just a symlink to a profile in the store though
<nixy>
You could symlink the new users profile to the same profile as the old users profile
<ebzzry>
Yes, and that the symlinks it the store point to absolute paths, as part of the design of Nix.
<nixy>
The only caveat to that is you would lose your former generations as generations are tracked by the symlinks in the users folder
<ebzzry>
Yes. There are no guarantees.
<ebzzry>
I need to weigh whether renaming the user outweighs the efforts.
<nixy>
Well why are you renaming the user?
<ebzzry>
It’s a user request.
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<nixy>
Neato. Like I said earlier, you could just not have them in configuration.nix and use `users.mutableUsers` with traditional unix stuff
<nixy>
But yeah, that is kind of a sticky situation to be honest
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<ebzzry>
nixy: that’s ok! =)
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<MichaelRaskin>
ebzzry: consider asking user if it is OK to create a new login and just let the user do the move as they see fit
<MichaelRaskin>
(having access to both accounts)
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<MichaelRaskin>
It is such a great excuse to clean up the $HOME file layout, that they could actually agree.
<nixy>
They aren't here anymore, but yeah that too. I also realized you don't actually have to muck around with symlinks for ~/.nix-profile and can leave it as is. The name in the per-user directory would just be different
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/vHhvc
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 304391b Vladimír Čunát: Merge branch 'master' into staging...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vHhvE
<monaderror>
Hi, does anyone know the best way of updating a package version in configuration.nix? I'm using packageOverrides but it doesn't look to be working. This is the relevant snippets from my config https://pastebin.com/ubCkkVV1
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<LnL>
what's the problem?
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<monaderror>
I declare a new version of crashplan to be used but it looks like the packageOverrides isn't taken effect and the old version is still used
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<monaderror>
If I check the file hashes they are the same in the nix store even though I updated the sources
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<LnL>
the override looks ok, where did you get that expected sha?
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<monaderror>
I manually downloaded the artifact from the fetchurl then manually run the installPhase to extract it from the CrashPlan_${version}.cpi file and used sha256sum.
<monaderror>
It looks like i'm still seeing the default "4.8.0" install from 17.03 so wasn't sure if the override was correct or not
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vHhUo
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 0d4431c Piotr Bogdan: fakeroot: apply patch to ignore EINVAL errors as well...
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<monaderror>
Looking at the nix store it does look like it's picking up the version override.../nix/store/*-crashplan-4.8.3-r1/lib/com.backup42.desktop.jar, however I'm guessing the crashPlanArchive / srcs are not being correctly picked up?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] armijnhemel opened pull request #26665: bluez5_28: remove expression for bluez5_28, as it is no longer needed (master...bluez5_28_removal) https://git.io/vHhU5
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<gchristensen>
Mic92: ahh nice
<gchristensen>
looks also like vcunat started an eval
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<Filystyn>
nix-shell ignores allow unfree in configuation.nix why ?
<LnL>
only nixos-rebuild look there, nix-build/nix-shell use config.nix
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<Mic92>
Filystyn it reads ~/.nixpkgs/config.nix instea
<Mic92>
instead
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<Filystyn>
ooo
<Filystyn>
thx
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<zarel>
hello!
<domenkozar>
chromium crashes for me while scanning wifi access points
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<turion>
My first 24 hours with nixos have been good, but not perfect ;) Major remaining problem: cpupower doesn't work as expected. The frequency stays at 800 MhZ although it should be capable of 1.8 GHz and I've each set the governor to performance and the frequency to 1.8 GHz directly
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<turion>
How can this be? I've not experienced anything like this before
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<MichaelRaskin>
You mean cpufreq?
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: Yes
<MichaelRaskin>
What modules is loaded for cpufreq hardware handling? acpi_cpufreq?
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: Sorry, I'm so new to nixos that I don't know where to start. Does nixos create the kernel config as well? Can I inspect or edit that or should I do that through a .nix file?
<MichaelRaskin>
lsmod | grep cpufreq
<MichaelRaskin>
You can _view_ config via /proc/config.gz
<MichaelRaskin>
It is very rarely needed to change it, it is mostly everything-as-module
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm, maybe try ondemand instead of performance in the command then?
<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe no, not sure
<turion>
Yes, just tried that, stays on 800 MHz although htop says I've got 100 % CPU load :/
<MichaelRaskin>
find /sys | grep cpufreq
<MichaelRaskin>
(yes, I don't believe all that tooling around the long-term kernel interfaces, as you can notice)
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: Haha, that's great, I'm learning a lot about how things really work under the hood right now
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<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, ifconfig → ip, iwconfig → iw, because the kernel logic has changed a bit. That was like once in a dozen years or what? Now look at all that wrapper kaleidoscope and share the despair
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: I understand that viewpoint, but I'm happy I can use networkmanager to just connect to a network quickly without having to mess around with wpa_supplicant directly (as long as there is a way to get rid of it quickly)
<turion>
Ah, and now we've found the right place I believe, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/
<MichaelRaskin>
That's the trouble — you invest half an hour once, then wpa_supplicant is actually simpler _and it stays the same over years_
<MichaelRaskin>
Does it have cpufreq subdirectory, though?
<turion>
Yes
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<MichaelRaskin>
Did you load some additional module? Because then this cpufreq directory is exactly at the path I initially mentioned
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<turion>
(Argh, how does copy/paste work on xmonad..?)
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<MichaelRaskin>
Isn't left-drag to select, middle-click to paste universal in X11 and sane apps?
<turion>
Hmm if I had a middle mouse button I could test ;)
<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe left+right click would work
<nixy>
Left + Right = Middle?
<MichaelRaskin>
It is sometimes enabled
<turion>
Would make sense, but doesn't quite work
<nixy>
If you are using a touchpad you can usually configure how a middle click is performed
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<nixy>
I think you have to edit some X config files for synaptic tho
<turion>
nixy: Ah yes, that's on my long list of things to get the system usable
<MichaelRaskin>
For synaptic you can just run synclient, if SHM control is on
<MichaelRaskin>
Nowadays you have also a chance of xinput agreeing to configure stuff
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] ajevans85 opened pull request #26666: crashplan: refactor allowing local version bumping with overrideAttrs (master...feature/enable_crashplan_overrideAttrs) https://git.io/vHhLp
<MichaelRaskin>
And the list of available governors
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<Mateon1>
Hi, I'm having freezing problems with the amdgpu driver on a radeon RX 470. How do I debug those? journalctl spews a bunch of errors from when this happened. A bunch of QKcbConnection errors happen in xsession (unsure if related), then 2 seconds later I get several lines of "kernel: amdgpu 0000:01:00.0: GPU fault detected: 147 0x0178c802" ... "amdgpu 0000:01:00.0: IH ring buffer overflow (0x00080B70, 0x00000080, 0x00000B80)" - after which the system
<Mateon1>
(Non-graphical daemons continue running, however, I could access my samba share)
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: Yes, I have ondemand, userspace and performance available, and all frequencies available
<MichaelRaskin>
And what is the current governor?
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<turion>
ondemand
<MichaelRaskin>
What if you echo performance to that file?
<turion>
Now it's performance, but the frequency stays low
<MichaelRaskin>
And if you set to userspace and manually change performance?
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: How do I do that? If I echo to cpuinfo_cur_freq, it says permission denied
<turion>
Maybe that's the bug?
<MichaelRaskin>
After setting userspace as the governor?
<MichaelRaskin>
Order matters
<turion>
Yes
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah. scaling_setspeed
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<gchristensen>
eeee the ova job got past the previous hurtle
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<vaartis>
> So.. bugzilla requires the configure script to be ran by somebody in wwwrun group, but nixbld user is not in that group, how can i add it to group?
<vaartis>
Just asking here too, maybe anybody knows
<gchristensen>
"here too" where else did you ask?
<gchristensen>
I'd fix theconfigure script to not require the wwwrun group
<vaartis>
In github PR i'm working on
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<MichaelRaskin>
scaling_setspeed has crashed your system?
<vaartis>
gchristensen: it needs one, cuz else it makes most files publically available
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: No, just an internet hickup
<turion>
I've looked at the kernel config, it seems right
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<turion>
Weird... maybe I should talk to kernel devs?
<turion>
Can it even be that it's a nixos problem?
<MichaelRaskin>
So, scaling_setspeed also does nothing?
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: No
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm
<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe there are some complaints in dmesg?
<turion>
MichaelRaskin, nothing unusual... dmesg | grep cpu mostly says that the powernow driver found the CPU and that's it
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, you could try different kernel versions
<turion>
MichaelRaskin: Ah... hmm how does that work on nixos *^_^* ?
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<turion>
I'll make myself some lunch and try that later. Thanks for your help!
<nixy>
Is there any way to tell how many people on Nix use certain packages? Something like Debian's popularity contest?
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess niksnut has some approximation in terms of unique IPs asking for a package from binary cache
<nixy>
That's what I figured, but that isn't exactly opt-in so I wouldn't feel great peeking at that
<nixy>
I'm just curious what different WM/DEs people use with NixOS
<gchristensen>
I don't think we have data per-package, since it'd be such a nightmare to correlate
<gchristensen>
also I think there is indeed a desire to not be too invasive
<turion>
Here is a thing I don't really understand about the cpufreq business: In the nixos philosophy, I should just have to set the governor somewhere in a config and do nixos-rebuild switch, and that's it.
<turion>
So if that setting is set incorrectly somehow, am I even able to change it by echoing values to /sys etcetera /scaling_setspeed?
<gchristensen>
indeed, you are. nixos is still based on the linux kernel and doesn't that deeply modify the linux kernel
<nixy>
/sys is a pseudo filesystem anyways, so Nix can only do so much to modify it
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<turion>
Ah, so it doesn't replace everything in there by symlinks to some /nix/store ;) I'm a bit relieved, actually
<gchristensen>
yeah, that'd be too much
<gchristensen>
turion: you _can_ set the governor in nix, but it just does like echo > /sys/...
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<turion>
gchristensen, ah ok, where do I do that?
<turion>
I'm sorry I'm asking so much all the time, but it seems like there is next to no information on the internet except the guide
<turion>
wiki, you're dearly missed
<nixy>
turion: Even without the wiki you can find quite a bit out about nixos just by searching the options with `nixos-option` or http://nixos.org/nixos/options.html
<nixy>
So for example searching governor on nixos.org/nixos/options will find the option you need
<nixy>
It also provides links straight to github where it is defined which is pretty neat
<lorilan>
If I try 'nix-build nixpkgs/pkgs/applications/audio/gpmdp/.' (the place where is my default.nix file), i got error: cannot auto-call a function that has an argument without a default value (‘stdenv’)
<lorilan>
and if I try 'nix-build -A gpmdp nixpkgs/pkgs/top-level/.' I got error: cannot auto-call a function that has an argument without a default value (‘localSystem’)
<gchristensen>
it'd be really neat if webkitgtk wasn't so big :P
<lorilan>
I'm sure it's nix 101 but if I could get a little boost to start, that would be great !
<gchristensen>
lorilan: I would recommend adding it to pkgs/top-level/all-packages.nix (follow the numerous examples in there... don't worry _too_ much about when you put it) and then do nix-build . -A name, where name is `name = pkgs.callPackage ...`
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<lorilan>
where am I suppose to do "nix-build . -A name" ?
<gchristensen>
directly inside of the nixpkgs checkout
<lorilan>
because I already put "gpmdp = callPackage ../applications/audio/gpmdp {};" in all-packages.nix
<gchristensen>
ah!
<lorilan>
ha ?
<gchristensen>
cd nixpkgs, nix-build . -A gpmdp
<lorilan>
>_<
<lorilan>
ok
<lorilan>
it's working !
<gchristensen>
alright!
<lorilan>
thanks a lot !
<gchristensen>
you're welcome! super glad to help :)
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: it would be really neat if web browser engines didn't have a need to be so big
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<gchristensen>
yes! I agree!
<MichaelRaskin>
Are you complicit in maintaining any web pages that don't work at all without JS for no good reason?
<MichaelRaskin>
If so, you have a chance to push towards the change you want to see, one corner of web at a time
<gchristensen>
well https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html does, and I work for Tumblr which, well, lol. but I don't have anything to do with web dev at work :/
<MichaelRaskin>
I think if I open tumblr without JS it does show at least something
<gchristensen>
oh, that is good news :D
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<gchristensen>
if you help me fix that graph to output a regular picture (svg output of gnuplot?) I'd replace it
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, I do write shell scripts to launch gnuplot, but usually the work is around the data source
<MichaelRaskin>
plotting is simple
<gchristensen>
gnuplot escapes me :(
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<MichaelRaskin>
Hm
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure an SVG plot is an improvement. I would say that a text column of UTC timestamps like «2017-06-15 13:40 UTC: nixos-17.03-small updated to a commit from 2017-06-14 21:10 UTC» could be better
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean next step after no JS is a small screen or a text browser
<gchristensen>
yeah, I really like the visual
<MichaelRaskin>
But you lose the second part of the data!
<MichaelRaskin>
I would still ask for a text log of updates, too (maybe JS could collapse it when it is enabled)
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure how to make date-linked labels correctly, though
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<gchristensen>
sure, I can make a text log
<gchristensen>
would you collate the channels by date?
<MichaelRaskin>
I thought the point is exactly to see if we are lagging by days or by hours
<MichaelRaskin>
So, just unix timestamps should be OK
<MichaelRaskin>
Seems that gnuplot has something for that
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<gchristensen>
oh so you're saying show the latest version per channel, not a history of each channel
<MichaelRaskin>
basically, I would ask just for two columns of timestamps
<MichaelRaskin>
No-no, history of course
<MichaelRaskin>
Two columns of timestamps per channels
<MichaelRaskin>
per every channel
<turion>
nixy, gchristensen, thanks, that's useful to see!
<vaartis>
Damn. httpd seems to ignore perl5lib and says it can't find libs, but they are right there tho
<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: what would be different between the two columns? or: what would the headings on the columns be?
<MichaelRaskin>
«Commit timestamp» and «Channel update timestamp»
<gchristensen>
oh I see, thath is interesting, I realize now I don't actually capture when it updated, but when the commit is from. I should fix that :)
<MichaelRaskin>
I actually thought it is the other way round
<gchristensen>
I generate latest and the history lines with this command: git show -s --format="%H %at" "$remote/$branch"
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah right, Git is so advanced there is no good way to track when a commit was added to a branch
<gchristensen>
:D
<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe timestamp tags?
<gchristensen>
yeah, I mean it would be simple to just capture the timestamp at the time I detect the change
<MichaelRaskin>
As in channel branches with tags like update-140123456
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fpletz pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vHh3a
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 9be1951 Franz Pletz: imagemagick7: 7.0.5-7 -> 7.0.6-0
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 5f803db Franz Pletz: imagemagick: 6.9.8-9 -> 6.9.8-10
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master de74d20 Franz Pletz: kernelPackages.zfs: 0.6.5.9 -> 0.6.5.10
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<gchristensen>
oh, yeah, we could, but we'd probably not want that in nixos/nixpkgs
<gchristensen>
it can make the github and git UI very slow
<MichaelRaskin>
We had a separate channels repository, no?
<gchristensen>
we do
<gchristensen>
but I can't make changes to it :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Can we just export all the history to SVN and start anew?
<MichaelRaskin>
I feel like Git workflow NixPkgs uses took a few wrong turns somewhere
<gchristensen>
:)
<MichaelRaskin>
(and Git per se was also one, but oh well)
<lorilan>
I have another question, I'm in nixpkgs root directory, I do nix-env -f . -q 'my*', It go 'my*' selector matches no derivation, but after I successfully does a nix-env -f . -i 'my-package', the previous command works ... is there a way to make it work without actually installing (and knowing ?!!) the package ?
<dash>
i'm almost over being mad that git won
<dash>
maybe we can switch to pijul in a few years? ;-)
<gchristensen>
dash: they are nixos users
<gchristensen>
indeed
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't expect pijul to reach feature parity with SVN, though
<dash>
MichaelRaskin: i would hope not, svn had plenty of bad features ;)
<MichaelRaskin>
Sorry? The problem is that it had quite a few good ones that everyone pretends never existed
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, actually everyone, even Monotone who does do a lot of things right
<MichaelRaskin>
And I think the problem pijul wants to solve is not the problem NixPkgs repository has…
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure we often have accidentally-complex merges
<dash>
it's a pityy bzr never got fast, it had most of the nice stuff from svn IME
<MichaelRaskin>
Meh. I want a union of features of Subversion, Monotone and probably Pijul, yes
<dash>
i never got around to trying monotone
<MichaelRaskin>
And when I say features I mean model-level features, I am good at shell scripting
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<MichaelRaskin>
But partial checkouts are not about scripting, they are about core assumptions!
<gchristensen>
yeah subversion did several nice things
<gchristensen>
like having lots of binary blobs without having to download them -all-
<MichaelRaskin>
4 minutes sound unrealistically small
<MichaelRaskin>
I hoped you have a better guess
<gchristensen>
heh
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<gchristensen>
yeah, an hour would be closer to reality
<vaartis>
Uh, i dont think i'll finish bugzilla service any time soon
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<MichaelRaskin>
I also hoped for a variation estimate
<gchristensen>
I have no good info :(
<MichaelRaskin>
Pity!
<gchristensen>
we could capture the info and talk again in a week
<MichaelRaskin>
I can plot somehow and then maybe you will be able to tune it
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<MichaelRaskin>
gnuplot <<< "set term svg; set output 'channel.svg'; set title 'Channel updates'; set timefmt '%s'; set format x '%m-%d'; set xdata time; plot 0, 'channel' using 1:(\$2-\$1)/3600 with linespoints title 'nixos-whatever';"
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: you could try that
<catern>
hey #nixos I had a thought
<MichaelRaskin>
That plots date and delat
<MichaelRaskin>
delay
<catern>
why not make the creation of gc roots (in multi-user setups) be handled by nix-daemon?
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<catern>
this would allow later on creating some higher-level policy about how much store space a user can consume
<catern>
BUT I realized an even more significant gain
<catern>
this would make store-on-NFS really easy!
<catern>
transparent, in fact!
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: now you can capture the info and plot as you go
<kiloreux>
I am getting an error not being able to load libbz2 when trying to run ffmpeg installed through nix
<kiloreux>
any idea what could be the issue
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<vanschelven>
hello I'm a noob that's very enthusiastic to get started with Nix; I fully subscribe at least to the philosophy, now we'll see how it goes in practice :-)
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<vanschelven>
I got started by fetching the VirtualBox image and setting that up. "It works"
<vanschelven>
I've also read the manual once
<vanschelven>
now I would like to get this image to behave according to my personal preferences. AFAIK even dotfiles for arbitrary programs should go into nix expressions if you want to "do it right".
<vanschelven>
is this the correct understanding?
<vanschelven>
hmmm, on second reading that's a big vague, I'll rephrase
<vanschelven>
I want to get a number of my preferred programs including my preferred setups over into the newly installed NixOs.
<vanschelven>
I think I know how to install the programs
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<vanschelven>
but what's the recommended way in the NixOs world to configure them?
<vanschelven>
as I understand it the "promise of Nix" is that I'll in the end just have a single file or git repo somewhere which can be used to deterministically rebuild my entire system.
<vanschelven>
which file is this
<vanschelven>
end of noob question
<dash>
vanschelven: /etc/nixos/configuration.nix
<dash>
vanschelven: it's not usual to put user dotfiles in your nixos configuration though
<vanschelven>
is there a user-equivalent that the dotfiles go into?
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<vanschelven>
I'd seen /etc/nixos/configuration.nix, but I'm not properly understanding the relationship between that file and nix-env yet
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<vanschelven>
e.g. I just did a nix-env -iA nixos.vim
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<vanschelven>
as root <- no idea if that's recommended or anti-practice
<vanschelven>
should I have rather edited the global configuration.nix? if so, what is the equivalent equivalent way of doing the same in the global configuration.nix ?
<vanschelven>
I feel a bit like an idiot asking these questions; the documentation in itself is quite clear, but the thing I'm missing is the "this is how it's done in the NixOs world" document; perhaps it exists, if so please point it out!
<grahamc>
:) probably better to put nix in your environment.systemPackages
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] domenkozar pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vHhnB
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master af4056f Domen Kožar: chromium: apply patch to fix chromecast
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] domenkozar pushed 1 new commit to release-17.03: https://git.io/vHhnw
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 df7d0bc Domen Kožar: chromium: apply patch to fix chromecast...
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<vanschelven>
stuff like user-administration of the system, is that also covered by nixos?
<vanschelven>
i.e. should I destroy the demo user in a special nix-like way, replacing it with a user bearing my name?
<grahamc>
yeah, edit the configuration.nix
<vanschelven>
or is that the usual userdel/useradd command
<grahamc>
see also man configuration.nix
<vanschelven>
I don't see the demo user there though... am I missing something?
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<vanschelven>
is it implied in the import?
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<grahamc>
hmm I believe so yes
<grahamc>
I'd just add your own user on top
<vanschelven>
hmmm I will read the friendly manual first, I am now seeing I've read a bit carelessly... thanks!
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<MichaelRaskin>
grahamc: have you noticed the gnuplot script?
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<turion>
How do I find out what values an option in the config accepts? E.g. what can I plug in for "services.xserver.xkbVariant"?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] gleber opened pull request #26668: WIP: erlang: refactor: build packages per Erlang/OTP version. (master...fixpoint-erlang-packages) https://git.io/vHhcs
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<grahamc>
I did, thank you -- I've saved it and will experiment :) thank you!
<MichaelRaskin>
turion: I think nixos-option is the command to ask about options
<gleber_>
LnL: Ankhers: yurrriq: ericbmerritt_: please take a look at https://git.io/vHhcs and give me your feedback :)
<vanschelven>
/etc/nixos/configuration.nix is read only (for all users); is this the expected situation or did it somehow get into a funny state?
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<turion>
MichaelRaskin: Yes, that command helpful, but it doesn't give me a list of valid options or so
<turion>
Probably I have to look at its implementation..?
<MichaelRaskin>
The list is usually effectively infinite
<MichaelRaskin>
For xkbVariant you basically have a few for every layout
<turion>
vanschelven: Isn't that editable by root only usually?
<turion>
Oh ok, so every string is valid for nix, and it's xserver who has to deal with the values?
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<MichaelRaskin>
Yes
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<vanschelven>
it's permissions are "r r r" for me; with an override it's editable by root but it seems weird to me that it's not writable by default
<turion>
vanschelven: mine is editable by root and readonly for everyone else (and I've installed the system just a day ago, so it's quite pristine)
<vanschelven>
hmkay I'll just make it writable then
<turion>
vanschelven, who owns your configuration.nix?
<vanschelven>
root owns it
<vanschelven>
and I'm editing as root too
<turion>
hm ok, weird... well, I think most other people on this channel are more knowledgeable on this than I ;)
<vanschelven>
for now I'll risk it :-)
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<turion>
MichaelRaskin: ah good. Given that I know how to use a text editor and git, how likely is it that I can extend the description to include a link to the coresponding xserver docs and send a PR?
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure there is a comprehensive description anywhere in X docs…
<MichaelRaskin>
Editing description is simple
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<turion>
MichaelRaskin, ok I'll have a look, thanks :)
<vanschelven>
which runs into "the unique option boot.loader.grub.device" is defined multiple times
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<vanschelven>
I'm understanding this as "magical nix package associated with the virtualbox install already defines it"; should I use a specific syntax to override definitions from imported packages?
<vanschelven>
and more generally: is it wise to try to "undress" the VirtualBox demo, or is it easier to learn Nix by starting with a very slim version of it?
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<DanC>
does `godoc` work for anyone else? /nix/store/38cqvrf2pns07pzqi0sim4l0hn01j14y-go-1.8.1/bin has only go and gofmt
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<DanC>
I see #3930 "When go-1.3 is installed, cannot use godoc" closed as if it's fixed,but it doesn't seem to be fixed.
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<endformationage>
Are there any ponyc users? I'm looking to confirm possible problem with Pony's garbage collection hanging under NixOS.
<turion>
Yay, I managed to configure my keyboard layout in X :) I'll send a PR to the manual
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<Gravious>
"Note that possible setuid and setgid bits are cleared. Setuid and setgid programs are not currently supported by Nix. This is because the Nix archives used in deployment have no concept of ownership information, and because it makes the build result dependent on the user performing the build."
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<dash>
Gravious: right. But!
<Gravious>
this raises the question how does nix handle setuid programs such as passwd and the like
<dash>
Gravious: nixos modules can make things setuid
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<MichaelRaskin>
And Nix doesn't
<Ankhers>
gleber_: Does that actually change anything? nix-review claims nothing changed.
<dash>
yeah. it's treated as an OS config issue rather than a per-package issue
<gleber_>
Ankhers: it does not change anything among top-level packages, but it does introduce many packages, which are not "exported"
<gleber_>
Ankhers: that's also one thing that I'd like to get feedback on. Is this really useful to have such "non-exported" packages defined at all? Should they be "exported"? Does this apply to only binaries, or to libraries too?
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<Ankhers>
gleber_: Oh okay. I will take a look at the changes. I am not sure I will be able to say how useful something like this would be though.
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<gchristensen>
`tested` passed. finally. next battle: nix on darwin. :( time for some R&R.
<Gravious>
turion: might also look at the nix expression for sudo
<Gravious>
since that should be setuid
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fpletz pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vHhWM
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master c973a4a Franz Pletz: linux: 4.11.5 -> 4.11.6
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master a470aa0 Franz Pletz: linux: 4.4.72 -> 4.4.73
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master bbb9182 Franz Pletz: linux: 4.9.32 -> 4.9.33
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fpletz pushed 3 new commits to release-17.03: https://git.io/vHhWS
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 d5ac9b0 Franz Pletz: linux: 4.11.5 -> 4.11.6...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 b2e0946 Franz Pletz: linux: 4.4.72 -> 4.4.73...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-17.03 d1fce4f Franz Pletz: linux: 4.9.32 -> 4.9.33...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] fpletz pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vHhWF
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master d6e9468 Franz Pletz: atlassian-confluence: 6.1.1 -> 6.2.2
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master c0a582f Franz Pletz: atlassian-crowd: 2.11.1 -> 2.12.0
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master aa06a6e Franz Pletz: atlassian-jira: 7.3.4 -> 7.3.7
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<pikajude>
is there a nixy way to do something like docker-compose where you build and run a handful of VMs all at the same time
<dash>
pikajude: write a function
<pikajude>
i want to be able to get a brand new postgres instance on demand
<pikajude>
i've written a function or two in my time
<pikajude>
but
<dash>
;)
<pikajude>
not sure such a thing has been scripted yet
<pikajude>
i know how to build individual docker images
<pikajude>
idk if anything has been done for orchestration
<turion>
Am I somehow using xsel incorrectly if I expect the following: I run "cat somefile.txt | xsel" and then I should be able to paste the file contents to a browser window
<dash>
pikajude: you specifically want to do this with docker rather than e.g. nixos-container?
<pikajude>
dash: well i'm not on nixos
<pikajude>
so, yes
<pikajude>
turion: i thought you used xclip for that
<pikajude>
what does xsel do
<dash>
pikajude: ah, ok that's a more complicated problem then
<pikajude>
indeed :o
<dash>
pikajude: i recommend using docker-compose instead
<pikajude>
oh ok
<turion>
pikajude: Oh! Must have been a hash collision in my /brain/store then ;) thanks
<pikajude>
but i wanna build the docker image using nix
<dash>
pikajude: sure
<pikajude>
but then you have to specify like
<pikajude>
the hash
<pikajude>
in the yml file
<pikajude>
at least i think you do
<dash>
you can also build using nix and push to a repo
<dash>
then pull from it in your docker-compose config.
<pikajude>
right
<pikajude>
well since i already use nixops for deployment, maybe just build and run a virtualbox instead
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<turion>
pikajude: In case you're interested, "xsel -b" does the desired thing!
<pikajude>
neat
<turion>
(xsel has different clipboards, and the one addressed with -b is the one that graphical apps share)
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master fd92d81 Michael Raskin: Merge pull request #26670 from lverns/libreoffice-fix-xdg...
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<gchristensen>
:o :o :o nixos-unstable advanced
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<tanonym>
Palemoon seems to be missing menu entry in nixos. This is with E21.7 and doesn't appear in the menu even after a restart or relogin.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] dywedir opened pull request #26672: nodePackages.javascript-typescript-langserver: init at 2.0.0 (master...javascript-typescript-langserver) https://git.io/vHh8G
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<turion>
Is there a magical setting that allows me to turn on tab completion for *all* applications?
<turion>
(Like the USE flag in Gentoo)
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<catern>
hey #nixos, is there a quick single command to, start building a derivation, grab its sources and make them available, do everything up to invoking the builder... and then invoke a shell instead of the builder so I can poke around?
<catern>
it would be kind of like apt-get source
<LnL>
nix-shell '<nixpkgs>' -A hello; unpackPhase; cd $sourceRoot
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<LnL>
you can also run the rest of the build interactively like that
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<catern>
oh
<catern>
huh
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<catern>
neat, thanks
<catern>
another question: Eelco's thesis says that multiple outputs from a derivation is impossible with the extensional store, and you need an intensional store.
<catern>
yet Nix currently has an extensional store, right? and it has multiple outputs? how??
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] basvandijk opened pull request #26673: opencv-3.x: fix build on OS X (master...fix-opencv-contrib-osx) https://git.io/vHh4d
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<jake_>
is there a service that updates resolv.conf and how do i disable it?
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<ison111>
Is there any way to get extra modules into python without having to use nix-shell? (I can't use it because the package is calling python directly as the interpreter for my script) I suppose I could import modules directly from the path in the nix store but then the paths might change, so is there any better way to do it?
<catern>
ison111: "the package is calling python directly" what package? do you mean some external software not available through nixpkgs? just to be clear
<ison111>
catern: No, it's the mod_wsgi module for apache
<catern>
ison111: and by directly, do you mean it's calling /usr/bin/python?
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<catern>
if it's looking up python on the PATH, you can use nix-shell
<catern>
or whatever mechanism
<ison111>
catern: It's packaged for nix so I'm assuming it's either calling it from the nix store or /usr/bin/env python
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<catern>
hmm, i'm pretty new to Nix so I don't know the answer to your problem
<catern>
I guess the Nix-y way to do it would be to have a Apache wrapper derivation which specifies the Python binary to use, which you can then point at a Python wrapper which specifies the modules to import
<catern>
you might check if such a thing works?
<catern>
alternatively if it's using /usr/bin/env python then
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<catern>
you can install the wrapper that I mentioned ("a Python wrapper which specifies the modules to import") directly with nix-env -i? perhaps?
<catern>
(or make it available through nix-shell)
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<catern>
you might check if an Apache wrapper already exists, I mean. I don't think you would be expected to write it yourself :)
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<MichaelRaskin>
For forbidding resolv.conf updates, I recommend chattr +i
<catern>
haha
<LnL>
lol
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<ison111>
catern: Hmm, there is a services.httpd.extraModules option. It's for httpd modules I guess, but I wonder if I can use it to include pythong modules?
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<catern>
I have absolutely no idea, I'm only guessing based on Dolstra's thesis :)
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<FRidh>
ison111: python.withPackages ? Or simply using PYTHONPATH?
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<ison111>
On second thought I might just try nginx instead. uwsgi looks like it has more configuration possibilities in nix than mod_wsgi
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<jake_>
clever: i've managed to fix all the errors but one
<jake_>
clever: /nix/var/nix/profiles/system/init: line 118: /dev/fd/62: No such file or directory
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] kirelagin opened pull request #26675: bind: Use rndc to control the daemon (master...bind-rndc) https://git.io/vHh0y
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Ericson2314 opened pull request #26676: ghcHEAD: Split docs into their own output (master...ghc-head-doc) https://git.io/vHhE3
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<ertes>
i have a bunch of disks, each of which may or may not be present at boot time, and they have the same LUKS password… is there a way to cryptsetup-open all the ones that are present and ignore the ones that aren't?
<ertes>
without complaining
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] turion opened pull request #26677: Manual: Add paragraph on xserver keyboard layout (master...master) https://git.io/vHhzJ
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] 7c6f434c pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vHhzz
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 858c47c Manuel Bärenz: Manual: Add paragraph on xserver keyboard layout
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 243217f Michael Raskin: Merge pull request #26677 from turion/master...
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<clever>
jake_: just dup over the symlink at /dev/fd
<clever>
jake_: when i get back from a grocery run, i can merge the PR
<jake_>
clever: oops my bad. okay sounds good.
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<jake_>
clever: turns out logOutFd and logErrFd aren't set until the exec line
<jake_>
clever: and they're not 62, theyre 10 and 11
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<Infinisil>
Hey, on a rebuild, I frequently get the errors "unknown ssl protocol error in connection to cache.nixos.org", ".../bin/xz: file format not recognized" and "error unexpected EOF"
<Infinisil>
But just trying it again resolves the issue, sometimes I have to try it multiple times
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<Infinisil>
Anybody seen that before and knows what the problem is?
<jake_>
clever: okay it seems that exec {logOutFd}>&1 {logErrFd}>&2 sets logOutFd and logErrFd to two available file descriptors that correspond to stdout and stderr
<jake_>
clever: i don't really know why though
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<Infinisil>
Ohh, firefox 54 is there on unstable, nic
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<jake_>
clever: another next step, can we make it update the system without redoing the entire tarball thing?
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<clever>
jake_: nixos-rebuild should work inside the container
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<clever>
jake_: and all the stores closed 3 minutes before i started helping you today, lol
<jake_>
clever: ahh if i just change configuration.nix or container-helper.nix
<jake_>
clever: haha sorry
<clever>
yeah, just change the copy it made on boot, and nixos-rebuild
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<mellowmaroon>
What's the difference betweeen running nix-shell with things, versus creating an environmet?
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<mellowmaroon>
That is, nix-shell vs buildEnv
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<Infinisil>
I really hate that bash scripts are the easiest to use in todays time, such an ugly language, used for so many things
<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: so I'm just having a look at the thing now. Turns out I have quite a lot of dead paths with no referrers that I really don't care about
<Infinisil>
I'd rather use Haskell or something for scripts
<sphalerite>
presumably from cancelled builds or so
<mellowmaroon>
Infinisil: I remember seeing something like a scheme shell
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<Infinisil>
I recently had to look up how to get all arguments to the script space separated in a variable, solution is `var="${@}"`, like what the fuck
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<sphalerite>
Infinisil: "$*" should also do
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<sphalerite>
of course if any of the arguments have spaces in them you lose the distinction
<clever>
i think "$@" handles that?
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<Infinisil>
$@ didn't work, wait I'll test it
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<sphalerite>
"$@" is a real black sheep because it expands to multiple words even though it's in quotes
<sphalerite>
super sensible language design
<sphalerite>
clever: with "$@" you get the args as separate words though, not space separated
<clever>
which is usualy what you need
<sphalerite>
yeah, but Infinisil wanted them space separated in a variable
<clever>
ah
<sphalerite>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Infinisil>
Hmm, all of those seem to work, "$@", "${@}" and "$*"
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<Infinisil>
But when I do ./script.sh Hello "there test", the var contains "Hello there test", is there some way to include the quotes?
<sphalerite>
They do all work, but in different ways
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<sphalerite>
oh right you're setting a variable to that
<sphalerite>
forgot about that
<sphalerite>
Infinisil: var="$(printf "%q " "$@")" I think
<sphalerite>
right, so you could pass it like that on to something else and the separation would be maintained
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, at least it is not creative as some alleged real languages with finding excuses to produce random unrelated code instead of what you have written in the source
<Infinisil>
For example?
<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: C?
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<MichaelRaskin>
Well, and C++ — we don't hear about it as much because there noone expected any better in the first place
<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: Even /nix/store/y44w1zv91454n7mwm7sq3jhqv6x8kj6q-brainfuck-0.1.0.3.drv/nix/store/y44w1zv91454n7mwm7sq3jhqv6x8kj6q-brainfuck-0.1.0.3.drv is a dead path with no referrers — I have no idea how it got there, I haven't written brainfuck in 2 years and I don't think I've ever used any software written in it :
<sphalerite>
:p *
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<MichaelRaskin>
Is it just about drv?
<MichaelRaskin>
Because dead drvs will be there, for example, after a single test-eval-release run
<MichaelRaskin>
Or nox-review
<MichaelRaskin>
Or whatever
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<sphalerite>
hm so filter out drvs and locks I guess
<Infinisil>
Ohh, wait a moment, regarding the preserving quotes, I tested this with echo, but echo ignores quotation marks...
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<sphalerite>
yes
<sphalerite>
echo is almost never a good choice
<Infinisil>
what instead? printf?
<sphalerite>
printf is almost always better, simply because it's more predictable
<sphalerite>
yes
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<sphalerite>
Nothing wrong with using echo to just print some hardcoded strings but once variables become involved printf is much better
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<ben>
When building a package, can I disable running tests during the build on the command line, or is that a property of the derivation that goes into the hash etc?
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<sphalerite>
For example with echo $v there's no way to guard against the variable's contents being -n and just nothing being output
<clever>
ben: that is a property that will affect the hash
<sphalerite>
ben: it is a property that goes into the hash, because it's an environment variable for the builder
<ben>
:(
<sphalerite>
ben: you can disable it at the commandline using an override though. It's a bit of a mess and not nice to read but you can do it anyway :p
<sphalerite>
if they're failing because they're impure, then it makes perfect sense to disable them
<ben>
hard to tell
<sphalerite>
is it?
<ben>
all the stuff at the end of the output looks like it passed
<ben>
and i overwrote the log already
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<Infinisil>
I just recently found out that zfs isn't available on Windows.. I wanted to share all my data with it, but I guess that's not gonna happen now :(
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<sphalerite>
Infinisil: a friend of mine has this crazy setup where he runs linux next to windows in a xen hypervisor. Shares stuff between them using samba
<clever>
sphalerite: i have a server in the cloud running win7 to handle some legacy junk that relies on windows
<clever>
sphalerite: and in the past, i have tried to get gpu passthru under xen to work, but discovered that the host must fully reboot any time the windows reboots
<Infinisil>
Why couldn't windows just disappear like 10 years ago
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<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: filtering out the drvs and locks, still way too much noise. Lots of .services for some reason, I don't see why those would exist and not be referred to by some system build
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<sphalerite>
quite a lot of -doc outputs as well, I presume those are from nix-shells
<sphalerite>
I have a couple of questions regarding nix-store --gc: firstly, what is /nix/store/trash? And secondly, why does it pause for so long after writing "deleting /nix/store/trash"?
<ben>
It takes a while to take out the trash
<clever>
sphalerite: it moves things from /nix/store/ to /nix/store/trash, because directory moves are atomic
<clever>
then when its done, it does a normal rm -rf on trash
<sphalerite>
aaaah okay
<Infinisil>
Fancy
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<catern>
how large is a full build of nixpkgs?
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<clever>
catern: i heard 80gig per eval
<catern>
ah
<catern>
that's not so big
<catern>
ez pz
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<Infinisil>
Maybe some bash wizard can help me here
<Infinisil>
`mpc idleloop player` continuously outputs "player" everytime the song changes
<sphalerite>
sounds like an mpd question rather than bash :p
<Infinisil>
Everytime this happens I want to run the command `mpc current`, resulting in a continuous stream of current songs
<Infinisil>
I need to somehow combine `mpc idleloop player` and `mpc current`, but I don't know how
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<tilpner>
Read a line from idleloop, check what event just happened, run current if appropriate
<tilpner>
Not via a pipe, but a loop
<Infinisil>
Hmm, okay, that's the simple way I guess
<Infinisil>
Maybe there's some pipe, xargs, whatever magic though
<tilpner>
Tell me if you know a better way :)
<tilpner>
s/if/when/
<Infinisil>
I will
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<catern>
Infinisil: mpc idleloop player | while read line; do mpc current; done
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<catern>
assuming it only outputs lines when the song changes, otherwise you need a grep in the middle there
<Infinisil>
Yeah that works, maybe I should just use that