<Mic92>
hyphon81: no matter what options you give, libvirt looks in its own package for qemu.conf
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<hyphon81>
There is libvirtd.conf in ${pkgs.libvirt}/var/lib/libvirt. There is also ${hash}-libvirtd.conf in /nix/store. I think NixOS uses ${hash}-libvirtd.conf, so I should make ${hash}-qemu.conf. Is this wrong?
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<Mic92>
hyphon81: ${hash}-libvirtd.conf is directly passed as command line option (--config), while the path to qemu.conf is passed as compile time
<rardiol>
Can someone help debug my network? Ping works, but wget seems stuck on "Connecting to google.com (google.com)|172.217.29.238|:80... " . Firefox also doesn't work. Assuming you're reading this, then irc works too.
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<hyphon81>
In the libvirt package, qemu.conf is read from ${pkgs.libvirt}/lib/var. I think it should change postInstall in default.nix if the OVMF package exists.
<hyphon81>
It is hard for newbie... I will make an effort.
<hyphon81>
Mic92: Thanks!
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<domenkozar>
niksnut: you've solved a NP-complete problem
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-16.09 b5edcfc Franz Pletz: squid: 3.5.19 -> 3.5.23...
<angerman>
so how does hydra actually built on a different system? Just copy the closure over?
<simpson>
agarzia: I'm not sure of your exact scenario, but yes?
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<clever>
angerman: yeah, same way nix-build does, it just copy-closure's all the inputs to a slave of the right arch, and copy-closure's the finished product back
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<angerman>
clever thanks.
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<eacameron>
How do nixers typically set up config for a package?
<eacameron>
I'm creating a package that has 10 or so configs and using simple sets is getting combersome
<eacameron>
It seems that nixos packages have a principled way of doing this.
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<hyphon81>
Hmm. libvirt/qemu.conf does not working.
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<hyphon81>
I edited ${pkgs.libvirt}/var/lib/libvirt/qemu.conf for appending OVMF settings. However, it doesn't working.
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<hyphon81>
OK, I understood. In libvirt configure flag, there is the option "--with-loader-nvram". It should be set.
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<hyphon81>
My virt-manager says "UEFI not found"... I would like to set OVMF. But my attempts are all failure at the moment.
<hyphon81>
How can I use OVMF in libvirt/virt-manager on NixOS? :(
<hyphon81>
I attempted to modify libvirt package with editing default.nix. However, my attempts were not working.
<hyphon81>
It seems to rightly effect at libvirt configure files because files and logs were changed for my purpose. But, virt-manager can't find the OVMF.
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<hyphon81>
I used up my idea for NixOS configuration. I can't set libvirt/virt-manager/OVMF on NixOS... It is hard for newbie.
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<hyphon81>
In NixOS, where are qemu.conf nvram settings? Those aren't ${pkgs.libvirt}/var/lib/libvirt/qemu.conf nor source build configure flag --with-loader-nvram.
<hyphon81>
At first, why is sysconfdir for libvirt set $(out)/var/lib?
<hyphon81>
I'm attempting to comment out sysconfdir options in default.nix.
<srhb>
Are there options for outgoing firewall rules hiding somewhere?
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<hyphon81>
srhb: I think, there are only options it can read with "man configuration.nix".
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FRidh pushed 10 new commits to master: https://git.io/v15BS
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 6486b90 Frederik Rietdijk: pythonPackages.flake8: 2.6.2 -> 3.2.1
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b0576a4 Frederik Rietdijk: pythonPackages.flake8_3: remove...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 0b36295 Frederik Rietdijk: pythonPackages.lxml: 3.4.4 -> 3.7.0
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<hyphon81>
Does not need to nixos-rebuild switch after nix-env -i pkgs?
<MichaelRaskin>
No, these NixOS knows nothing about your nix-env profile
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<hyphon81>
As usual, I can't change virt-manager firmware to UEFI(OVMF)...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Ericson2314 opened pull request #21254: zdoom: Fix typo from 1cc9d9ef2ce80dee5c8f2ef9f8ae20ae76337d73 (master...ctrl-t) https://git.io/v150V
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Ericson2314 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v150r
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 508d949 John Ericson: zdoom: Fix typo from 1cc9d9ef2ce80dee5c8f2ef9f8ae20ae76337d73
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to release-16.09: https://git.io/v15Ef
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-16.09 84a3c52 Jörg Thalheim: nssModules: include correct systemd output...
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<adelbertc>
what does the '-a' flag do in nix-env -qa ?
<MichaelRaskin>
Query all (as opposed to installed) packages
<adelbertc>
ah cool
<adelbertc>
so im trying to install fzf, so i did a `nix-env -qa fzf` which informs me theres no derivations
<adelbertc>
looking on https://nixos.org/nixos/packages.html and searching 'fzf' i see theres no package *name* called fzf, but theres one with an attribute name fzf
<adelbertc>
i was under the impression `-q` would also look at attribute names
<adelbertc>
actually hm i take that back. but is there a way to also include attribute names in the query?
<adelbertc>
actually ignore me, i think i got it :)
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<MoreTea>
'morning. I'm playing with makeTest (to create qemu tests) with virtualisation.writableStore = true. It's quite slow! Is this something that is known?
<MoreTea>
Apparently it uses a union-fuse filesystem.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vbgl pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v15un
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master e76a1f0 Vincent Laporte: Revert "omake: remove 0.9.8.6-rc1"...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 3c7bd99 Vincent Laporte: Revert "teyjus: 2.0b2 -> 2.1"...
<hyphon81>
How can I change system path to libvirtd on systemd?
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<joko>
Could anyone add the security label on my PRs for syncthing? Thanks in advance
<lukego>
I'm running NixOS in QEMU but I find it a pain to have to tell the QEMU command line how to find the init process ("-init /nix/store/..."). Is there an easy way to make a NixOS image (based on qemu-guest.nix) know how to find the init process automatically?
<lukego>
I got an infinite recursion error when I tried: boot.kernelParams = [ "init = ${config.system.build.toplevel}/init" ]
<lukego>
(Could also work to make /init into a symlink to the right place while bootstrapping the image, if there is an easy way to do that.)
<LnL>
you can't use toplevel in your config
<srhb>
How does one use connman with vpn? I see the service, but the options page doesn't really describe its configuration.
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<joko>
srhb: not that I have tried it, but you need to define a configuration file at /var/lib/connman-vpn
<lukego>
er, switch_root: can't execute '/run/current-system/init': No such file or directory
<joko>
srhb: I use it like that, connman helps my laptop to prefer lan over wifi and stores passwords for me while I wait for a way to store them privately in nixos store
<LnL>
lukego: does, toplevel.outPath work?
<lukego>
as in "init = ${toplevel.OutPath/init}" ?
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<srhb>
joko: okay, I think that works for me, too. Now to figure out how to block unvpn'ed traffic. :)
<joko>
srhb: are you using openvpn?
<srhb>
joko: Yes.
<srhb>
joko: as configured by services.openvpn.servers
<LnL>
lukego: doesn't work either, you'll have to find a way to access the derivation that created /init
<joko>
srhb: just configure your client to redirect all the traffic to the server
<avn>
Folks, anyone know -- zfs works with 4.9?
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<lukego>
LnL: tricky. maybe I will just live with having to put a nix store path on the QEMU command line.
<joko>
avn: it works for sure on 4.4.36
<lukego>
LnL: thanks for the ideas
<srhb>
joko: Ah, right, I meant if the vpn accidentally drops. I think I can figure it out with iptables though, thanks. :-)
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<LnL>
lukego: try config.system.build.initialRamdisk in the repl
<avn>
joko: haven't any plans to rollback to 4.4 ;)
<lukego>
nix-repl> config.system.build.initialRamdisk error: undefined variable ‘config’ at (string):1:1
<LnL>
avn: I know there where issues, no idea if it's fixed yet
<LnL>
lukego: nix-repl '<nixpkgs/nixos>'
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<lukego>
(Can I ask nix-build to keep the build directory somehow? I'd like to examine some intermediate artifacts)
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 opened pull request #21257: ntp: document new default ntp service in release notes (master...ntp) https://git.io/v15g5
<avn>
LnL: At least their github have new tag with "compatible with ...4.9, but not recommended for production yet". Not sure, if it cost to sumbit update with rc of zfs or not
<avn>
Mic92: I think I PR update to -rc1, and let maintainers decide ;) At least I finish my weekly build ;)
<Mic92>
avn: I would pick rc2 instead
<Mic92>
rc1 is not compatible with 4.9 anyway
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<Baughn>
Has nixos-unstable been updating lately?
<clever>
9 days without an update
<canndrew>
hello, I'm a nixos noob, can someone help me with a nixos+haskell issue?
<canndrew>
cabal install is complaining about a missing zlib.h
<canndrew>
I have zlib installed and in my system profile
<canndrew>
nix-shell -p zlib doesn't help
<canndrew>
I can manually set CPATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH but that seems like a hack and it still complains that it can't find the library
<canndrew>
I think part of the problem is that cabal is trying to install zlib-0.6.1.2 but my main zlib is zlib-1.2.8
<avn>
Mic92: rc2 ofc, just my own memory have few holes ;)
<canndrew>
I have both versions installed though.
<canndrew>
although I only have headers for 1.2.8, and it looks like they're in a seperate -dev pacakge
<canndrew>
So... how can I tell nix to install headers for 0.6.1.2 (assuming that's what I need to do). nix-env only lists a "zlib" package - not different versions or -dev packages.
<canndrew>
and then how do I setup a shell to point to it? does nix-shell let me specify a specific version somehow?
<LnL>
Baughn: there are some issues on hydra because of a nix upgrade
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<Baughn>
I see.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 closed pull request #21257: ntp: document new default ntp service in release notes (master...ntp) https://git.io/v15g5
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<canndrew>
ah, yous can probably ignore everything i wrote above, looks like i was very confused.
<canndrew>
LnL: when's hydra likely to get fixed? any idea?
<srhb>
I'm a bit wary of opening udp 1194 completely, but otherwise I'd have to hardcode the server address...
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<LnL>
canndrew: it's an issue with the new user namespaces that results in unexpected behaviour
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<LnL>
I think we are waiting for niksnut to make a decision
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v15aB
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master c27eeea Joachim Fasting: brltty service: wait for devices to settle...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 361633d Joachim Fasting: rmilter service: fix invalid directive...
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] LnL7 closed pull request #21250: riak-cs: add Darwin support (master...riakCSMac) https://git.io/v15Gq
<hyphon81>
OK. I found out there are differences about running on systemd between installed with nix-env and installed with configuration.nix... I'm tired...
<LnL>
you probably don't want to install systemd in your user profile
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<ToxicFrog>
output path ‘/nix/store/n39mbp5nbw8vmrsnhgc2m7sk1p152qn9-google-fonts’ has r:sha256 hash ‘0nbbdscjcl3aisf13r5qsyr718xjnfagwzxm62xvlp0dr6lm4n8r’ when ‘0q03gg0sh2mljlbmhamnxz28d13znh9dzca84p554s7pwg6z4wca’ was expected
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v15V7
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master e5bb5ef Vladimír Čunát: mendeley: use orc package instead of its duplicate...
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v15Vj
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 1aaedd3 Vladimír Čunát: liborc: remove the duplicate package...
<ToxicFrog>
It wants 13n2icpdp1z7i14rnfwkjdydhbjgdvyl1crd71hfy6l1j2p3kzyf for the output hash and 0c20vcsd0jki8drrim68z2ca0cxli4wyh1i1gyg4iyac0a0v8wx3 for the download hash.
<gchristensen>
huh ...
<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: this is a known issue
<ToxicFrog>
joachifm: aah, good to know -- is there a local workaround?
<ixxie>
I have been rearranging stuff my NixOS configuration files, moving some stuff between files; I noticed I get collision warnings the first time I rebuild and I was wondering why that is
<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: not that I know of, as I recall, the problem is that it's supposed to be fixed-output but there's some indeterminism in the way the output is created
<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: so I suppose you can simply change the fixed-output hash locally
<ToxicFrog>
I tried that but must have done something wrong :/
<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: you want to change outputHash
<ToxicFrog>
environment.SystemPackages = with pkgs; let google-fonts-patched = google-fonts // { outputHash = ...; }; in [ google-fonts-patched ... ];
<ToxicFrog>
This changes the calculated hash in the error message, but not the hash it's looking for!
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<ToxicFrog>
(specifically, the calculated hash changes from 0nbbdscjcl3aisf13r5qsyr718xjnfagwzxm62xvlp0dr6lm4n8r to 1m0l4sayj03bvc62pg1x2j30ws3pv3vzdgm6wb7i6xpv9h5fn0bw, and it still wants 0q03gg0sh2mljlbmhamnxz28d13znh9dzca84p554s7pwg6z4wca instead)
<ToxicFrog>
(and I would love to know where 0q03gg0sh2mljlbmhamnxz28d13znh9dzca84p554s7pwg6z4wca comes from)
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v15wZ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 2b8566f Vladimír Čunát: release notes: grammar nitpicks in an entry...
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<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: it's a recursive hash of the content of the output. please use overrideAttrs/Derivation to set the correct outputHash. should work unless the build produces different outputs every time, ofc
<ToxicFrog>
Alright, thank you
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* ToxicFrog
consults the manual
<joepie91>
ixxie: these collision warnings are most likely concerning files that 1) are in 'exposed folders' (I forgot the exact name, but they are folders whose contents are exposed on the 'real' filesystem through symlinks), and 2) provided by more than one package, in the sense that different packages produce files with the same relative paths that would end up taking the same space in the resulting filesystem
<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: as I recall a fix has been attempted, but if it still fails perhaps you ought to open an issue about it (supposing one is not already open)
<joepie91>
ixxie: this is the case for eg. manpages
<joepie91>
as well as some desktop stuff like desktop icons
<joepie91>
sometimes also locale files, and there's a few other things I've seen it for
<ixxie>
and so that is why the second rebuild doesn't show conflicts anymore
<ixxie>
I see
<ixxie>
[#nixos] anybody know of a nice basic example of how to configure gnome / gtk themes in NixOS?
<ToxicFrog>
joepie91: so, I used nixpkgs.config.packageOverrides and it worked fine; thank you for pointing me at that
<ToxicFrog>
...except that the output hash has changed again
<ToxicFrog>
\sparkles{non-determinism!}
<joepie91>
ToxicFrog: you've probably highlighted the wrong person, and meant joachifm :)
<ToxicFrog>
Yes I did mean joachifm
<ToxicFrog>
Sorry
<ToxicFrog>
Anyways, is there a way I can disable the output hash calculation entirely?
<ToxicFrog>
It's already verifying that the download hash from github is correct.
<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: but the download hash from github pertains to the source archive, outputHash is derived from the output; you can simply remove outputHash to turn google-fonts into a non-fixed output
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<joachifm>
ToxicFrog: err, sorry, I misread your comment, I see now that you understood the distinction :)
<gchristensen>
how can you remove outputHash?
<joachifm>
I'd expect override* to work, but perhaps it does not?
<gchristensen>
well I'm thinking you'd have to specify its absense
<kmicu>
Notable quote “For a couple of years, Debian has had a dashboard that shows the progress that has been made. The result is impressive: 92% of its source packages are now bit-for-bit reproducible!”.
<gchristensen>
and " Since last year's summit, our patch submission guidelines require submitters to check for reproducibility issues using guix build --rounds=N. This has already allowed us to fix lots of reproducibility issues in packages. "
<MoreTea>
That's pretty awesome.
<MoreTea>
debian is using guix to test reproducibility?
<gchristensen>
no, guix is using guix to test reproducibility :)
<MoreTea>
ah.
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<MoreTea>
Does any of you use kubernetes?
<Myrl-saki>
gchristensen: I want it to be isolated in configuration.nix., though.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vbgl opened pull request #21261: Eliom 6 and various OCaml package updates (master...uutf-1.0.0) https://git.io/v15oZ
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<joachifm>
Myrl-saki: displayManager.sessionCommands might be what you're after
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<jazzencat>
Having a little trouble getting a .zip file for a SLiM theme downloaded. I type nix-prefetch-url --print-path $url and it says 0/0kB downloaded and doesn't print out a hash. I'm guessing the source I'm trying for isn't good anymore.
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<rardiol>
try "wget $url" to make sure the source is there?
<Myrl-saki>
joachifm: Oh right. Thanks! I had that for my compton, but then a compton service was created.
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<domenkozar>
shlevy: did you ever compile haskell binaries statically against glibc?
<domenkozar>
or anyone else for that matter :)
<Myrl-saki>
s/service/module/
<jazzencat>
Yeah, it's there. wget downloaded it.
<jazzencat>
To add the services.xserver.displayManager.slim.theme in configuration.nix requires the hash.
<jazzencat>
Although the problem might be that DeviantArt attaches a token do the download source.
<jazzencat>
I've installed busybox. Are there any other tools I need as a new NixOS user, or will that do me for a while?
<gchristensen>
just ... like ... everything you use :) I like having `file`
<jazzencat>
Yeah, it seems the token that DA attached to the download link was screwing things up.
<ToxicFrog>
Apropos of installing tools -- what are best practices for installing things via configuration.nix vs root's nix-env vs. my own nix-env?
<gchristensen>
ToxicFrog: usually new users start by using nix-env in their own env, then move things to configuration.nix, I think
<domenkozar>
peti: did you ever statically compile a haskell lib againts glibc/gmp?
<jazzencat>
Whee! It works!
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<peti>
domenkozar: Yes. Note that glibc will try to load the resolver lib at runtime, though. glibc has no support for static linking, basically. But gmp works fine.
<MoreTea>
Hm. I'm trying to make virtualisatin/qemu-vm.nix to work with overlayfs instead of unionfs (it's supposed to be faster; any operation in the nix store took soo long that I did not bother to wait until completion)
<MoreTea>
The context for that is that I'm working on some introduction guides to the nix ecosystem, and I've implemented a test system that extracts tests from these guide markdown files.
<mitchty>
note thats specific to the toolchain alpine linux has
<mitchty>
with grsec etc...
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<rly>
Is it just me or is qemu rather low-quality software?
<rly>
Every 100 days or so a a VM has crashed now for various reasons (all bugs in qemu).
<rly>
s/a a/a
<mitchty>
you could force the shared library to be built without pie so it could be used as both a static relocation or shared, thats mostly what I did to ghc
<rly>
What happened to pkgs.gnome.GConf?
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<mitchty>
just have to make sure you end up with no R_X86_64_32/R_X86_64_32S segments and no .text relocations, otherwise static use will fail linking, just make sure you've done -shared -fPIC before your object
<mitchty>
depending on if you're going for a static archive or share object to be used in a library
<domenkozar>
mitchty: what I don'
<domenkozar>
don't understand is what library is failing to link here
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<mitchty>
domenkozar: can you get the gcc/ld invocation? basically it looks the same as trying to link a static archive with something compiled as a shared library with relocations
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<rly>
Never mind.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] ttuegel pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/v156x
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 0d29607 Thomas Tuegel: qt5.grantlee: 5.0.0 -> 5.1.0...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 46b1cc4 Thomas Tuegel: kde5.applications: 16.08.3 -> 16.12.0...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 3f206e3 Thomas Tuegel: kde5.kpackage: 5.29.0 -> 5.29.1
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<domenkozar>
mitchty: I'll check :)
<ToxicFrog>
Ok...KDE all set up, chromium working, google-fonts working, yakuake and zsh installed, what am I missing...
<ToxicFrog>
bup, syncthing, git, sublime text, and steam are the biggies, I think
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<rly>
ToxicFrog: which KDE are you running?
<rly>
ToxicFrog: 4/5?
<shlevy>
domenkozar: No, I haven't, sorry
<hyphon81>
In NixOS, OVMF can't boot with -M q35. And, Arch Linux's pkg OVMF ran.
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<peti>
domenkozar: Oh, I've never seen that error before. Probably some crazy new GCC/ld feature. :-(
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<ToxicFrog>
rly: 5
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<rly>
ToxicFrog: I am still running 4. How did you install 5, is it complete, how does it compare to 4?
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<ToxicFrog>
You probably don't even need SDDM if you have another display manager installed that lets you select what session type you want.
<ToxicFrog>
Is it complete: yes. I was running KDE5 on SUSE for years before installing Nix and there's nothing obviously missing from the NixOS install.
<ToxicFrog>
Some stuff seems to be off by default that was on by default on SUSE, like akonadid, but I'm ok with that.
<ToxicFrog>
(oh, and you probably want networking.networkmanager.enable = true if you want the network config applet thinger in KDE)
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<ToxicFrog>
How does it compare to KDE4: it's been so long since I used KDE4 that I can't really say.
<rly>
As long as a DE doesn't crash, I am already happy quite quickly.
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] FlorentBecker opened pull request #21262: ocaml-pcre: fix name (master...ocaml-pcre) https://git.io/v15XN
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<ToxicFrog>
(I wasn't running KDE4 before switching to KDE5 -- I was running GNOME. I think the last KDE I used heavily before 5 was 2 or 3)
<rly>
The main reason I required a window manager was for managing terminal windows, for which I am using another solution for years.
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<ToxicFrog>
I haven't had any stability issues with it.
<ToxicFrog>
And it has lots of customization options and theming actually works properly, which are my main reasons for preferring it over GNOME or, say, XFCE.
<ToxicFrog>
If all you need is a WM, though, there are much lighter-weight alternatives.
<rly>
ToxicFrog: I think KDE doesn't tax my machine too much, so it's OK.
<rly>
And I disabled all the heavy I/O stuff.
<rly>
The file indexer service in KDE has been misdesigned.
<rly>
It's supposed to be some kind of copy of the one on Windows or a Mac.
<rly>
It's just that the kernel isn't designed to do that currently.
<rly>
The KDE people built something anyway, and then they are surprised it doesn't work.
<rly>
I suppose ridiculously high IOPS systems can hide their incompetence.
<rly>
Long live technology.
<hyphon81>
GPU passthrough is difficult in everywhere distributions.
<ToxicFrog>
Yeah, the file indexer is disabled by default in NixOS, looks like
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<sphalerite>
rly: what about the kernel makes it unsuitable for that?
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<rly>
sphalerite: you need some inotify kind of interface which is rich enough to express everything required to make it efficient.
<rly>
sphalerite: it might be that I missed some improvements in the past year or so, but I once took a fairly deep look and then the kernel was the problem.
<rly>
sphalerite: a distribution could fix it by writing their own kernel module.
<sphalerite>
ah right, to hook into all file updates pertaining to a specific user I guess
<rly>
sphalerite: and of course you need to filter certain directories.
<rly>
sphalerite: and there should be some kind of I/O prioritization, etc.
<sphalerite>
can't the application take care of that?
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<sphalerite>
The filtering
<rly>
sphalerite: and, and, and.
<sphalerite>
It doesn't sound too complicated to me. But then I might be absolutely and completely wrong :D
<rly>
sphalerite: sure, it's not complicated.
<rly>
sphalerite: I am not sure who's the evil genius behind not adding this feature.
<rly>
sphalerite: I think it's just because only Big Corp is interested in Linux.
<sphalerite>
Do you really think there is one? x)
<sphalerite>
right
<rly>
sphalerite: well, it can't be that everyone who can implement it is busy, is it?
<rly>
can it*
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<sphalerite>
of course not, what an absurd idea
<rly>
sphalerite: I am also not sure what the motivations are of the KDE people.
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<rly>
sphalerite: I think there are only a couple of people in the KDE project who know what they are doing and they don't know kernel development, I think.
<rly>
sphalerite: many KDE people probably have a net negative impact on the project.
<sphalerite>
Really? That sucks
<rly>
I mean: they have been busy for 10+ years now and they still don't have anything which can be considered high quality.
<rly>
20 years actually.
<jazzencat>
I have a question: after installing busybox, nix-env -qa <whatever> throws an error about less --'R' being an invalid argument.
<rly>
jazzencat: that makes complete sense to me.
<sphalerite>
Yay bug!
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<rly>
jazzencat: someone was lazy and did something impure ;)
<jazzencat>
Once I uninstalled busybox I can do nix-env -qa again.
<sphalerite>
you can probably do nix-env -qa | less with busybox installed
<sphalerite>
Just something to stop it from trying to start a pager.
<jazzencat>
Ah.
<jazzencat>
Do I actually need busybox for general use?
<rly>
jazzencat: no
<rly>
jazzencat: busybox is for crazy people like me.
<rly>
jazzencat: and your router.
<jazzencat>
Hehe.
<rly>
jazzencat: it is quite good software, though.
<rly>
jazzencat: many of it has been implemented by people who knew what they were doing.
<jazzencat>
Don't remind me about my moron router. I need to figure out why the damn thing doesn't play nice with connman and my computer for wifi.
<sphalerite>
why does connman even exist :(
<rly>
jazzencat: no, you just need to buy one on which you can install OpenWRT.
<jazzencat>
I was looking for a userland toolset that was nice and compact.
<jazzencat>
Yay, more shit to learn just to get Linux to behave itself with hardware.
<rly>
jazzencat: do you have new hardware?
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<rly>
jazzencat: Linux works fine, it's often the wireless driver which is broken.
<jazzencat>
Lenovo B575 is my notebook. And a Motorola Router I got from my ISP within the last 2 years or so.
<rly>
jazzencat: and those get written by hardware companies (and those are not created equally).
<jazzencat>
It works on other APs, just not my home one.
<rly>
jazzencat: never interact directly with ISP equipment.
<rly>
jazzencat: at least, that's my advice.
<jazzencat>
Since I know nothing about networking and routers yet...
<rly>
jazzencat: do you want a career in software?
<jazzencat>
Not really.
<rly>
jazzencat: OK, regardless it makes you more of a wizard ;)
<sphalerite>
Gnome system settings user config panel tries to call /usr/sbin/useradd ♥
<rly>
sphalerite: Gnome is garbage.
<rly>
sphalerite: always has been.
<sphalerite>
worse than KDE? :p
<jazzencat>
I'm just going by the collection of aggravating individuals that comprised my University's CS department. Second only to the aggravating individuals comprising the Commerce/Business department--who tied with the Gender Studies people...
<rly>
sphalerite: the new one certainly.
<rly>
sphalerite: Gnome2 at least sort of worked.
<jazzencat>
I like the new GNOME.
<sphalerite>
I use i3 usually, but I'm trying GNOME on my desktop which I never use for shits and giggles
<jazzencat>
I'm running E21 with Tiling, probably going to have i3 as my backup, I like it, though I'm also tempted by xmonad.
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<rly>
I would run xmonad if in its default configuration it would work well with all the exceptions.
<jazzencat>
As far as working with software, I like programming and development among other things, but I don't want to be dependent on it for my paycheck.
<rly>
E.g. think of Java applications, etc.
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<rly>
Buttons which get rendered to fill your whole screen, etc.
<sphalerite>
lol wat
<MichaelRaskin>
I think for Java you need to set some environment variables
<rly>
sphalerite: buttons like "Click OK" which take up 1920x1080.
<jazzencat>
Hehe.
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<rly>
MichaelRaskin: yes, and for Foo you need to do something else.
<MichaelRaskin>
The default GUI toolkit used by many Java applications makes Assumptions
<rly>
MichaelRaskin: I know and I know those applications are sub-optimal.
<rly>
I just don't want to deal with it.
<sphalerite>
hm
<jazzencat>
Personally I'd rather work on my digital art than futz around trying to get a router to play nice. Which is why Apple is so tempting. Limited hardware options, but at least I know it will work in the majority of instances... :D
<MichaelRaskin>
The applications per se can even be locally optimal, which is the sad part
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah right, Apple
<sphalerite>
jazzencat: my experience with OSX is that it gets unbearably slow after a year or two
<rly>
It's also rather silly to share such a window manager with the rest of the world and simply act as if those exceptions don't exist.
<sphalerite>
idk if it's planned obsolescence or something like that
<MichaelRaskin>
Like the only company managing to produce garbage incompatible with Ubiquity Access points
<jazzencat>
I've been running OS X on my iMac for a long time and didn't really notice any issues.
<MichaelRaskin>
Yeah, you may be lucky if you keep it in the same places
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<rly>
I don't think why people think an iPhone is "intuitive". I had to Google most of the features.
<jazzencat>
And the AP I use regularly when away from home works just fine with all my devices...
<jazzencat>
Depends on what you're used to.
<sphalerite>
Anyone have an idea for something useful I could do with a desktop from 2008 which is in a different country from me 80% of the time?
<jazzencat>
Make it into your personal SSL box and fileserver?
<sphalerite>
I already squat on my dad's dedicated server for that
<sphalerite>
(well, I say "squat". I earn the privilege by doing all the sys admin on it :D )
<jazzencat>
I have no trouble figuring my way around Apple devices... but I've been using Mac OS since System 7.5...
<rly>
understand*
<jazzencat>
On the other hand I find GIMP and Blender UI completely bonkers...
<rly>
sphalerite: turn it off/throw it in the garbage/give it to a school.
<rly>
sphalerite: that's what I did.
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, GIMP has its own logic. Once you understand how to draw a straight line, it becomes easier (but needing to understand how to draw a straight line has some drawbacks, I agree)
<sphalerite>
jazzencat: Blender UI is completely bonkers (although it does make sense once you get in the bonkers state of mind)
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<rly>
I tried to draw something with inkscape recently; I made it crash twice in 30 minutes.
<MichaelRaskin>
It looks like at some level of detail, 3D modelling with GUI is bonkers anyway
<sphalerite>
^
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<sphalerite>
Yeah inkscape is kind of terrible as well IMHO
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<jazzencat>
Well, you kind of need it to play nice with the tablet for doing the modelling.
<jazzencat>
It's not exactly easy to do it all in text...
<rly>
sphalerite: I didn't lose my work, though.
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<sphalerite>
that's a start!
<rly>
sphalerite: so, their backup feature works well :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, not easy, but there you have a chance to get tedious instead of crazy
<sphalerite>
When I want to do vector graphics I draw stuff by hand then take a picture and GIMP and potrace it
<sphalerite>
Or scan it if I have a scanner available
<jazzencat>
The problem with Blender, GIMP and Inkscape is that they are chiefly developed by committee of volunteers...
<rly>
jazzencat: but you should report the less issue you had before to Github.
<MichaelRaskin>
jazzencat: Blender history teaches us that the problem is more complicated
<jazzencat>
Will do.
<MichaelRaskin>
Reminder: Blender was a commercial product, then the devloping company made some business mistakes and went close to bankruptcy, then users crowdfunded buying the code to release it under an open license.
<MichaelRaskin>
I think the core UI logic decisions haven't been changed since…
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<rly>
I think it's just that there aren't that many people who know how to write good software.
<jazzencat>
That's another issue.
<MichaelRaskin>
You are missing the point
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<MichaelRaskin>
There are not many people who know how to specify good software
<jazzencat>
So put a neon tennis ball on the point so we can see the point and not miss it ;)
<rly>
There is also limited tooling in the area.
<MichaelRaskin>
jazzencat: I am trying right now
<jazzencat>
Well, for UI design you have to understand a number of other fields besides development like psychology and so on.
<MichaelRaskin>
Also, «good» is different for different users
<sphalerite>
I think blender's UI is very well done
<jazzencat>
I find Maya and Autodesk easier to figure out without needing to constantly search for things on the internet.
<sphalerite>
It takes some getting used to, but the amount of functionality the UI has to represent is incredible and the way it represents it does a pretty good job of it IMO
<sphalerite>
idk I've never used those
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<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, some people consider Apple products aesthetically pleasing. But some of the Apple design decisions annoy me if I just look at someone using this UI.
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<MichaelRaskin>
«easier to figure out» is not the end-all metric, either
<sphalerite>
Vim isn't easy to figure out, yet many of its users swear by it :D
<jazzencat>
No, but when I can get my work done without having to spend extra time searching for things, it helps.
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, Mandriva was easier to figure out than NixOS, not question. But I still prefer the latter
<rnhmjoj>
hi, can you help me figure something out with nixOS? I wrote a hook script for redshift to change via DDC the screen brightness. the problem is redshift runs as a systemd user service and starting sudo gives the 'sudo must be owned by uid 0...'
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<MichaelRaskin>
Does it call sudo from /run/current-system/sw/bin or from /var/setuid-wrappers?
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<MichaelRaskin>
Because $PATH may be an issue here
<rnhmjoj>
I don't know: I added sudo to systemd.user.services.redshift and just call "sudo" in the script
<jazzencat>
One other concern with GIMP and Blender are they are fine if I am working on personal projects, but if you are working with other artists, then you want Adobe or Maya since those are the industry standards, and at the professional level of use, they have some limitations as well.
<MichaelRaskin>
I think there are some subsets of industry using Blender at large scale
<sphalerite>
jazzencat: unless those artists are using blender too ;)
<jazzencat>
This was from an individual who worked professionally and uses both Blender and Maya
<MichaelRaskin>
And I think some retouche for films is done GIMP-only
<MichaelRaskin>
rnhmjoj: could you log $PATH value somewhere?
<MichaelRaskin>
What do you mean «added sudo to»
<jazzencat>
Yeah, but anytime a studio uses a GIMP or Blender base they likely have sunk thousands of dollars into having a customized in-house version built for their needs.
<MichaelRaskin>
With GIMP, it is worse
<MichaelRaskin>
A few studios wanted a specific set of options/formats/etc supported
<MichaelRaskin>
They asked Adobe to name a price. Adobe just refused
<rnhmjoj>
I set systemd.user.services.redshift.path = [pkgs.sudo ...];
<MichaelRaskin>
That is a mistake
<MichaelRaskin>
You want sudo from /var/setuid-wrappers
<jazzencat>
Not sure if GIMP fixed this yet, but last time I tried using them GIMP didn't support the common RAW formats from the major camera manufacturers or .dng, nor did they support non-destructive editing.
<MichaelRaskin>
Because sudo from the package as-is is not setuid
<MichaelRaskin>
The RAW formats is a sad story
<MichaelRaskin>
Because nobody really knows what is actually inside, but the manufacturers pretend to know and only tell it to Adobe (and maybe a few more large vendors)
<jazzencat>
Adobe .dng is an open format like RTF. But not supporting at least dng, nef and canon's raw format aren't really defensible.
<gchristensen>
the real root of the problem is (I updated the ticket) is user namespacing (I believe) breaks posix, allowing `mkdir test; chmod 0000 test; touch test/foo` to run where it doesn't elsewhere
<obadz>
this happened when nix-daemon was upgraded on hydra?
<gchristensen>
yeah
<obadz>
so can be reproduced locally if using same version?
<gchristensen>
I believe so, but I don't run nixUnstable (and don't recommend you do, either...)
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<gchristensen>
so if you do, test on a throwaway machine -- you can't easily downgrade due to a schema change.
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<sphalerite>
But currently stable and unstable have the same nix version so switching back is no problem, no?
<obadz>
sphalerite: nixUnstable != master
<sphalerite>
oh right
<obadz>
gchristensen: I assume hydra isn't running nixUnstable either?
<gchristensen>
it is
<obadz>
huh
<obadz>
well then the solution seems pretty simple :)
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Balletie opened pull request #21263: light-locker: use systemd/logind instead of UPower (master...master) https://git.io/v15HB
<gchristensen>
many possible solutions, only a couple people who can make that decision and implement it :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Previous build data like logs, I guess
<obadz>
aren't those uploaded in S3 ?
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<joachifm>
I'm a little hazy on why user namespaces are used to begin with. anybody knows?
<MichaelRaskin>
Not logs, I guess
<k11`>
how can I execute shell command and get stdout in nix expression?
<gchristensen>
joachifm: I don't know
<k11`>
I seen pkgs.runCommand but it seems isn't that I really need.
<joachifm>
k11`: do you want to read shell output at Nix eval time or in a builder?
<gchristensen>
obadz, joachifm: if you all have any more questions and/or answers, can you add them to the ticket?
<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: ^
<joachifm>
gchristensen: ah, thanks
<k11`>
joachifm: I would like to encode idn for server names.
<sphalerite>
Just out of curiosity, is there a way to rescue a system where the default shell is broken, e.g. by putting exit in programs.bash.interactiveShellInit (assuming everyone uses bash)?
<gchristensen>
obadz, joachifm, MichaelRaskin (I say that because I'm leaving for a few hours.)
<joachifm>
k11`: right. you can define a builder that outputs something that can be used as a Nix value and read the result at eval time
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: I see, no ideas right now. Maybe I should try to experiment in a VM, though
<joachifm>
k11`: not sure if there is a better way ... it's a bit ugly
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<joachifm>
k11`: apart from implementing whatever it is you need in pure nix of course
<jrkk>
hey, trying to setup dev, could anyone give me a hint how to find these libs? "Missing C libraries: panelw, ncursesw"
<k11`>
joachifm: hmm...
<LnL>
MichaelRaskin: perhaps it's possible to just reinitialize the store?
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, that's costly and requires action by niksnut/ikwildrpepper
<MichaelRaskin>
Also, it looks like there are reasons to want user namespaces long-term
<ToxicFrog>
jrkk: for cursesw you probably want the ncurses package
<LnL>
the only way we can solve it on our own is to create a new nixUnstable release without the user namespaces
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, or fixing pytest
<LnL>
I don't think that's the only issue
<jrkk>
ToxicFrog: I have ncurses5 installed i believe. at least it's in my config
<MichaelRaskin>
I wonder if nixUnstable release will need manual upgrade on Hydra
<jrkk>
this message is from "cabal install ncurses" btw
<LnL>
MichaelRaskin: pretty sure pytest is fixed on trunk
<MichaelRaskin>
So the issue is Qemu tests
<LnL>
how I understand it is that because of the user namespaces the builds are not enirely POSIX complient anymore
<Baughn>
"/private/var/folders/jp/hgdbv0xj29s8w1bjnv22rysm0000gn/T/nix-build-manifest-mods.drv-0/.attr-0: line 81: syntax error near unexpected token `('"
<Baughn>
Well, this is new.
<Baughn>
Is there some way to make Nix not GC those files after a failed build?
<MichaelRaskin>
-K ?
<Baughn>
Indeed, thanks
<Baughn>
Hm.
<Baughn>
The line in question is "ln -s '/nix/store/qbckgcjg1lzm3vjx1vipwlhip1iyxkqr-download' 'Stellar Sky v0.5.5.1.7[1.9.4/1.10.0/1.10.2] (Stellar API v0.5.4.1.3).jar';"
<Baughn>
That sort of makes sense, but... not really
<Baughn>
Oh. I see. ...that's not a filename.
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<Baughn>
"error: string ‘./bundled/charset/Charset-mc1.10.2-0.3.3-3494ae740ded5395.jar’ doesn't represent an absolute path,"
<Baughn>
Well, this is absolutely true, but...
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* Baughn
is annoyed anyway.
<domenkozar>
peti: do you know how does Stack figure out what system libraries to provide from nix?
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] mjanczyk opened pull request #21264: keepass-keefox: add myself as a maintainer (master...update/keepass-keefox-add-maintainer) https://git.io/v155O
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] mguentner opened pull request #21265: gem-config: add lxc as a dependency for ruby-lxc (master...ruby_lxc) https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/21265
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<LnL>
domenkozar: I assume it uses the hackage nix expressions
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] obadz closed pull request #21263: light-locker: use systemd/logind instead of UPower (master...master) https://git.io/v15HB
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<domenkozar>
it's driving me nuts :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm closed pull request #21264: keepass-keefox: add myself as a maintainer (master...update/keepass-keefox-add-maintainer) https://git.io/v155O
<obadz>
domenkozar: why do you use stack?
<obadz>
isn't it easier on nix to just use cabal?
<LnL>
domenkozar: what are you running into?
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<LnL>
perhaps there extra-libraries is missing for the package, so the expression was not generated correctly
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<simpson>
obadz: Isn't Stack supposed to have good Nix integration?
<obadz>
simpson: it has a --nix argument but last I checked that wasn't very useful on nix
<obadz>
(well it's useless anywhere else for sure)
<obadz>
haskell integration on nix is based on cabal+stackage, not sure what stack gives you in that mix
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Mic92 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v15FX
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 4f57a25 Maximilian Güntner: gem-config: add lxc as a dependency for ruby-lxc...
<domenkozar>
obadz: LnL: both of them fail
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] ttuegel closed pull request #21057: qtstyleplugins: init at 2016-12-01, kdecoration-viewer: init at 2015-08-20 (master...master3) https://git.io/v1os7
<domenkozar>
nix-build -A haskellPackages.rocksdb-haskell
<domenkozar>
try that on OSX :)
<obadz>
OSWhat?
<domenkozar>
MacOS :)
<LnL>
oh but that's only an issue on darwin right?
<LnL>
thought you where talking about something else
<gchristensen>
it isn't clear to me why it went from 1.8.x to 1.9.x
<domenkozar>
LnL: any idea what controls that?
<ToxicFrog>
When backing up a Nix machine, I can safely exclude all of /nix, right?
<ToxicFrog>
That can easily be regenerated from the contents of /etc/nixos/.
<simpson>
ToxicFrog: If you know your channel versions, yes. Otherwise, you'll regenerate an equivalent, but perhaps slightly different, set of packages.
<ToxicFrog>
I'm ok with that.
<FrozenCow>
does anyone know how to configure gnome-keyring correctly so that networkmanager will automatically connect to wifi networks?
<joepie91>
maybe I'm missing something, but I'm running NixOS with XFCE4 as my desktop environment... and while xfce4-notifyd is *installed*... it isn't actually run?
<FrozenCow>
I'm not 100% sure gnome-keyring is the problem, but I do need to re-enter network passwords each time I try to connect
<joepie91>
so unless I start it manually, I don't get notifications
<LnL>
domenkozar: the haskell mkDerivation doesn't just call cabal build, so maybe there's something we can do
<joepie91>
surely this isn't intended?
<Sonarpulse>
ok I need to get to nixpkgs and smash them together
<rly>
Never mind, I think I already got it to work.
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<adelbertc>
how can i get the currently active installation directory for a nix package install? trying to find the git shell completion folder which im guessing is in whatever folder git is in, though nix-store -q `which fzf` isn't working
<adelbertc>
er, s/fzf/git
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<tomberek>
Has anyone used disnix/dydisnix, etc? I've been trying it out in my spare time for a while. Just looking to compare notes.
<rly>
tomberek: not used, but looked at it.
<tomberek>
NixOps is a good base, but is still machine focused. Disnix is about "services" (not the just the systemd kind).
<rly>
tomberek: I think conceptually Dydisnix is fine.
<tomberek>
I had some trouble understanding that distinction at first, and getting used to the conventions.
<rly>
tomberek: it's just that the implementation I would want to use requires 20 man years.
<rly>
tomberek: or 10M USD.
<tomberek>
At the moment I was able to get dydisnix-avahi working.
<rly>
tomberek: Dydisnix acts as if clouds don't exist, right?
<tomberek>
rly: What would you want implemented that is not? For example, I understand why the services are machine/OS agnostic, but I would love to just define a service using NixOS conventions if I'm deploying NixOS anyway.
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<rly>
tomberek: can Dydisnix create an Amazon VPC?
<LnL>
domenkozar: I think I got something
<tomberek>
rly: Yes, deploying to infrastructure is up to NixOps
<rly>
tomberek: NixOps lacks many integrations with cloud vendors.
<LnL>
domenkozar: it's a bit of a hack, but I can probably get it working in a generic way
<tomberek>
rly: Ah. I see your point. NixOps is much less feature complete than Terraform.
<rly>
tomberek: exactly.
<tomberek>
rly: But then again, Terraform isn't cloud-agnostic when you start using vendor specific features anyway.
<rly>
tomberek: yes, that's true, but is NixOps intended to be?
<rly>
tomberek: i.e., if it adds support for S3, does it so via an abstraction layer?
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<rly>
Most people don't care about "S3" specifically.
<rly>
They just want a place to store data with the *properties* of S3.
<tomberek>
rly: I'd like it to be. I've been using it to deploy to virtualized QEMU, then be able to just switch in a new network.nix and deploy to ec2.
<rly>
tomberek: and how complex was that network?
<tomberek>
simple, very
<rly>
tomberek: so, no SGs between the networks?
<tomberek>
exactly, those would have to be defined "out-of-band", or at least not with Nix.
<rly>
tomberek: I am happy to be having this discussion, though.
<rly>
tomberek: I mean: think of the progress that has been made in the last decade. :)
<tomberek>
I just haven't gotten to that point yet.
<rly>
tomberek: it also lacks some other services.
<rly>
tomberek: but yes, good to see that one there.
<rly>
tomberek: perhaps it's easy to add features.
<rly>
tomberek: I suppose that could be a strategic advantage.
<rly>
tomberek: I am also not sure what the performance difference is between Terraform and NixOps.
<tomberek>
rly: I think as we have more adoption at the corporate-level we can polish it up.
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<rly>
tomberek: where exactly is the implementation of the module you referred to above?
<rly>
tomberek: because that was just the interface.
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<tomberek>
rly: They seem to deploy in nearly the same time, Nix has a bit more setup time, but once set up, the instant rollback and /nix/store caching is great.
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<rnhmjoj>
rly: have you tried the "new TexLive infastructure" example in the wiki? It works for me.
<tomberek>
rly: The other question I had for the larger group is about the distinction/value between disnix and something like Kubernetes?
<rly>
tomberek: Kubernetes is a deployment target, AFAIK.
<rly>
tomberek: I haven't used it, though.
<rly>
gchristensen: thanks.
<rly>
gchristensen: that looks understandable. I am not sure what kind of ball of mud Terraform is, yet.
<tomberek>
rly: I wonder what steps can we take to have the Nix ecosystem more polished and drive adoption.
<rly>
tomberek: Documentation.
<rly>
tomberek: and niche applications.
<rly>
tomberek: managing a LaTeX installation generates maintenance work in many university environments.
<rly>
tomberek: if you can make a preconfigured NixOS which does everything people from different fields require, then that should generate users.
<rly>
tomberek: question is whether or not you really want that, though.
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<tomberek>
rly: I was looking into disnix as a configuration management and deployment tool. Would be nice for it to be easier to integrate Hydra as well
<tomberek>
Soon you'd have a stack comparable to what HashiCorp is doing.
<tomberek>
rly: I was looking into disnix as a configuration management and deployment tool. Would be nice for it to be easier to integrate Hydra as well
<rly>
tomberek: yes, I think a Nix based stack would be technologically better.
<gchristensen>
I think documentation is one of the most important and lacking elements of the ecosystem
<rly>
tomberek: some of the HashiCorp tooling is already quite good, so you can just use that in certain cases.
<rly>
Fragmentation is also bad.
<tomberek>
Okay, well. When I have a nice setup with dydisnix I'm willing to write a bit about it, document some of the things I couldn't really find docs on.
<domenkozar>
LnL: I see
<domenkozar>
LnL: well at least it works in Nix :)
<rly>
tomberek: the important bit would be to get those into the official documentation.
<rly>
tomberek: not just on your blog.
<tomberek>
Yes, lots of Nix-stuff seems to be blog-based documentation.
<LnL>
domenkozar: so for some reason cabal gets confused and doesn't use the proper path
<gchristensen>
obligatory notice: if you write documentation in any format, put it in a github issue, tag @vcunat, and he'll get it in to the manual!
<gchristensen>
rly, tomberek, ^
<rly>
tomberek: no, I do not.
<rly>
tomberek: I classified DyDisnix as too risky for production use, which means I will also not find out the details or build up a significant experience with it.
<rly>
tomberek: I suppose deep down I think the author should make the effort to sell people like me on it ;)
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<rly>
tomberek: I wouldn't mind if the government would give him money to work on it for the next decade.
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<Sonarpulse>
DavidEGrayson: you here?
<domenkozar>
LnL: I got it to work if I compile rocksdb statically
<LnL>
that's another solution
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<domenkozar>
LnL: I'll go with that, but maybe we should still report the bug upstream?
<LnL>
yes, I don't think it's related to the issue you linked before
<tomberek>
rly: For that to happen (funding), there would have to be a clear use case and benefit compared to competitors.
<tomberek>
and most likely would be a contractor or a FFDRC (federally funded reasearch and dev center)
<tomberek>
not government itself
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<gchristensen>
toogley: where did you find a reference to that / what are you looking for?
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<LnL>
not sure what that's supposed to monitor, hydra?
<toogley>
LnL: i just found the link somewhere on nixos.org
<sellout->
Are there any laptops that are recommended, in terms of most of their features working with NixOS?
<gchristensen>
LnL: it makes an attempt at monitoring security issues
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<gchristensen>
sellout-: macbookpro 11,3 works nicely, I hear the lenovo carbon x1 is good
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<LnL>
gchristensen: oh, I didn't know about that
<toogley>
gchristensen: i'm not sure, but i can't reach it. and my network setup generally looks good (i.e. i can reach nixos.org and other stuff)
<gchristensen>
toogley: it is sometimes not very accessible
<toogley>
gchristensen: ah, okay
<gchristensen>
(and I'm not sure it is regularly used)
<sellout->
gchristensen: Cool. Yeah, I have a MacBook now, but was thinking to try something else. Although … I guess not for any particular reason.
<gchristensen>
toogley: and if there is anything in particular you're looking for, I might be able to help you find it
<Ralith>
my T430 works nicely, but you probably don't want one of those anymore
<toogley>
sellout-: i use a thinkpad t520 and at the moment, it works great.
<Ralith>
planning on picking up an XPS 15 next year; will report back
<toogley>
gchristensen: no, it was just curiosity. :)
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<gchristensen>
cool :)
<toogley>
gchristensen: but thanks for the offer.
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<rly>
tomberek: I think the benefit is clear; If I would be at the head of Google infrastructure and we didn't have anything internally, I would call him tomorrow.
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<rly>
tomberek: and if he didn't want to do it, I would assign a team to implement it.
<rly>
tomberek: it's a good idea; it's bound to happen, because of the laws of economics.
<rly>
tomberek: if not now, then perhaps in two decades.
<rly>
tomberek: it will happen.
<tomberek>
So, I can probably talk to some people at that level, but have we (Nix community) put together a coherent proposal?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] non-Jedi opened pull request #21269: mm: init at 2016.11.04 (master...mm) https://git.io/v15j8
<tomberek>
I can wax poetic all day, but I probably can't put together the right arguments on my own.
<rly>
sellout-: XPS 15 works, if you get one without a Broadcom chip.
<rly>
tomberek: if you can talk to the right people, you should contact the author and ask him.
<sellout->
Cool. Thanks for the recs, everyone.
<rly>
tomberek: I think anyone who is currently head of infrastructure at Google should already know about it, though.
<rly>
tomberek: and if this person doesn't, he/she should be replaced.
<tomberek>
rly: Are people like Sander Van der Burg and Eelco Dolstra interested?
<gchristensen>
erm ... nix is still pretty niche ...
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to release-16.09: https://git.io/v15jr
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/release-16.09 fa20c0c Vladimír Čunát: xorg-server variants: eradicate symlink to /var/tmp...
<rly>
tomberek: Sander might be.
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] domenkozar pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v15j6
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 5e5df0f Domen Kožar: rocksdb-haskell: just compile rocksdb statically to fix #21215
<rly>
gchristensen: no, Nix is not a niche for anyone interested in doing things better.
<rly>
There is no excuse for not knowing what's available if you are in such a position.
<tomberek>
So, I've been pitching Nix to some people and i agree with gchristensen, it's still too niche. That's why I'm trying to develop a NixOps version of my current project alongside a Terraform version. Hopefully to transition to Nix at some point.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v15jH
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master c04c9f7 Joachim Fasting: electrum: improve build determinism...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 1ee50bc Joachim Fasting: electrum: manually fixup installation of share
<rly>
tomberek: are you on a deadline for that project?
<tomberek>
Yes, but I'm usually not the blocker, so I can put a few spare cycles into Nix.
<rly>
tomberek: if not, I'd find it interesting to see how easy it is to add your own cloud resources to such a deployment along with proper benchmarks.
<rly>
tomberek: I am just saying how I would evaluate it, such that you have the chance to create something that I would find enticing.
<rly>
tomberek: that presumably coincides a bit with what others would care about.
<rly>
tomberek: and the rest is marketing.
<rly>
tomberek: I.e., talking on conferences.
<rly>
(and making stuff generally work)
<domenkozar>
tomberek: do you have somewhere written what you need?
<domenkozar>
scrollback is pretty verbose
<tomberek>
domenkozar: We've covered a few topics. Some things I need/want; right now - documentation on how to deploy NixOS configurations using dydisnix. Sometime - how to get resources allocated to Nix ecosystem development. Eventually - how to to improve Nix adoption.
<tomberek>
domenkozar: I can get discussions with people who may be able to put some corporate support behind Nix, but I probably can't articulate the case as well as some of you.
<rly>
tomberek: DyDisnix also supports other operating systems.
<rly>
tomberek: I think a configuration including a "standard" OS would certainly be of interest.
<rly>
tomberek: bonus points for enterprise distributions with full security.
<domenkozar>
tomberek: why do you need disnix?
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<gchristensen>
domenkozar: have you heard anything back from eelco about hydra? :/
<tomberek>
rly: configurations that would make STIG and compliance efforts a simple enable=true; would be a commercial gold-mine in the government sector.
<domenkozar>
gchristensen: nope
<gchristensen>
:( ok
<tomberek>
domenkozar: I wanted to deploy a few services. I've got them working with NixOps. I was experimenting with Disnix/Disnixos/Dydisnix/etc.
<domenkozar>
tomberek: if you don't need non-NixOS support
<domenkozar>
then no reason to use disnix
<tomberek>
I like the idea behind dydisnix-self-adapt.
<domenkozar>
but do you also have a problem?
<tomberek>
domenkozar: No, I'm just learning, trying to evaluate. My use-case is covered well by NixOps.
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: well, maybe carpet-bombing changes to Qemu tests could be possible without intervention from above
<tomberek>
But a service-oriented declaration would be nifty.
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<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: it isn't qemu :( qemu was just falling victim the same way pytest was.
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v1dvZ
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 3cf9b58 Tim Steinbach: oh-my-zsh: 2016-11-16 -> 2016-12-14
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 178b9e2 Joachim F: Merge pull request #21246 from NeQuissimus/oh-my-zsh_2016_12_14...
<rly>
tomberek: the government sector should write down their requirememts then. Perhaps I would be interested in said goldmine.
<rly>
Probably not, though. ;)
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<tomberek>
rly: Terraform is good at provisioning, but doesn't have a robust deployment system.
<tomberek>
rly: My thought was to provision with Terraform, deploy with nix. That way there is a smooth transition for the team.
<gchristensen>
sounds practical
<tomberek>
Then eventually provision with NixOps. Then in the far future, just have a cloud of NixOS machines where services self-migrate to wherever they are needed, publishing status via mDNS.
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] LnL7 opened pull request #21274: python-gyp: fix darwin build without xcode (master...darwin-gyp) https://git.io/v1dTg
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] LnL7 closed pull request #17609: Revert "http-parser: Broken on Pure Darwin" (master...revert-http-parser-linux-only) https://git.io/v6nBu
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<sphalerite>
Where can I find manpages for standard unix system calls and the C standard library? I tried std-man-pages but those are for the C++ standard library
<sphalerite>
ah, man-pages looks like it might be what I'm looking for
<sphalerite>
yep, that's it
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<savanni>
How do I specify an environment variable in a shell.nix file?
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<joachifm>
savanni: shellHook might be what you want
<savanni>
K, will go looking.
<gchristensen>
well also just set any variable
<gchristensen>
stdenv.mkDerivation { FOO="bar"; } -> FOO should be set in a nix-shell
<gchristensen>
since that is how phases / buildHook / etc. work
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<savanni>
Oh there we go! Cool, that solves some of my build problems...
<gchristensen>
great!
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