<energizer>
what stack is the new nixos.org using?
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<samueldr>
energizer: what specifically are you looking for?
<samueldr>
what builds the site is as it was previously
<samueldr>
except for where styles meet the road
<energizer>
samueldr: oh, so no change in the documentation format
<samueldr>
so nothing about its tooling changed (yet)
<samueldr>
no format changed yet
<samueldr>
the authoring for all parts of the site didn't change :)
<energizer>
the long documentation pages still make stuff hard to find by search engines, but it does look nicer now :)
<samueldr>
(well, except the leaky abstraction that DOM is)
<samueldr>
yeah, that change is orthogonal to the redesign work
<drakonis>
hmm, nixcon soon
<drakonis>
i almost forgot it existed
<drakonis>
rather, almost forgot how close it was to the date
<JJJollyjim>
yeah, harder to find by search engines but really nice for ctrl-f
<JJJollyjim>
i can't decide which i prefer
<samueldr>
it also lags the crap out of some lesser-powered machines
<samueldr>
who would win? decades-old software built on the premise of hyper text or a surprisingly low amount of text?
<JJJollyjim>
oof yeah
<JJJollyjim>
any reason the intra-page links include the full url instead of just #xyz? it means if you go to /manual/nixos/unstable/ you have to be redirected to /manual/nixos/unstable/index.html when you click one
<samueldr>
I don't know
<samueldr>
probably a leaky abstraction of the way docbook is transformed
<abathur>
the ctrl-f case does have its merit; can probably also make it better if we can generate a simplified DOM/stylesheet for the unified manual
<abathur>
I suspect anyone there to pick the kinds of fruit one can reach with ctrl-f over the whole manual will probably prefer speed over appearance as long as the appearance doesn't obfuscate meaning/structure
<samueldr>
abathur: to my experience, it's not stylesheet/DOM that make browsers crawl, as much as it is the sheer amount of text itself
<samueldr>
it seems that browsers are simply *terrible* at text
<samueldr>
you can run WebGL with 60fps locked (maybe?) hardware decode 4K video (maybe)
<samueldr>
but text?
<samueldr>
hold your horses
<abathur>
samueldr well, there's a lot of little stuff, it probably depends on browser/engine a lot
<abathur>
flowing, and recomputing flow, is expensive
<samueldr>
yes
<samueldr>
I don't want to downplay it
<abathur>
so setting hard container sizes can be a big help
<samueldr>
I'm not sure
<samueldr>
since it happens once
<samueldr>
(assuming you don't cause reflows)
<samueldr>
(you being either the dev or the user)
<abathur>
nod, if it falls over on load with pure text and no styles there's probably not a lot you can do at that level
<samueldr>
in *this* particular instance I have not made any testing
<abathur>
wonder a bit if using pre-format and hard-wrapping it would help, but yeah, likewise
<samueldr>
but in a previous problematic case with loads of lines of text it was the case
<samueldr>
(not hard wrapping, still saying that styles themselves didn't account for anything perceptible)
<abathur>
yeah; I think that's mostly just complex selectors, but I imagine small stuff adds up at the scale of the whole manual. I don't know about ~all~ browsers, but the mainstream browsers can read fairly big chunks of HTML and parse/render/style/paint it pretty fast
<abathur>
but simultaneously, some terminals crumble under the workload of a resize with a large buffer
<abathur>
I wonder if there are font settings you can disable and if it has any impact
<abathur>
I guess if search is the goal it can be really ugly, though by that point I'd just be recommending downloading a plaintext copy for searching
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<ldlework>
Wish I could get Unity3D working
<ldlework>
I have a real hankering
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<eyJhb>
I should really fix the screen tearing
<energizer>
is it possible to fix screen tearing without switching to wayland?
<eyJhb>
energizer: not entirely sure, but I guess it would help to actually use the intel driver :p
<energizer>
i use the proprietary driver, doesnt help
<eyJhb>
Crushing my hopes and dreams atm. energizer
<energizer>
eyJhb: people seem to like wayland. the only reason i havent switched to it is my preferred wm doesnt have support yet
<cole-h>
IMHO: any current X11 wm's will not support Wayland in the near-to-distant future.
<cole-h>
s/wm's/wms/
<cole-h>
So waiting for one's preferred wm to support it is an exercise in futility
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<talyz>
Mic92: oh, what system is it?
<talyz>
I think pretty much all intel chips since sandy bridge should default to pstate
<talyz>
It works fine if I downgrade to 5.7
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<Mic92>
talyz: ok maybe my kernel is older
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<talyz>
Mic92: it's been the default since 2013, I believe
<talyz>
You can check which one is in use with `cpupower -c all frequency-info`
<ldlework>
drakonis claims Nix now has content-addressable derivations. Is he a dirty scheming liar?
<V>
no
<V>
it's in -unstable
<ldlework>
neat
<pie_>
yeah i hope if it ever gets replaced they keep both around
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: It does work well. Etu got tricked into using wayland for some reason...
* pie_
checks the new look
<pie_>
ok i gootta admit the old one looked better
<pie_>
now the impression it gives me is some generic tech junk :/
<drakonis>
it needed some flair :V
<pie_>
very enterprise
<pie_>
it looks very enterprise
<pie_>
(the background at the top is cool tho :P )
<pie_>
this was about the long doc pages, i was just waaaay ip in scroll <pie_> yeah i hope if it ever gets replaced they keep both around
<pie_>
the way space is managed in the first two sections feels weird and bad
<pie_>
maybe its just the "misaligned" dowload and get started buttons
* pie_
bikeshets harder
<pie_>
*bikesheds
<pie_>
why does ...clicking the play buttons open an inline popup section thingy? i guess thats actually not bad but the abrupt transition is a bit jarring and makes you think you opened a link somewhere or something but youre still on the same page
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<eyJhb>
adisbladis: that is what I would have said as well!
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<samueldr>
pie_: until browsers can smoothly scroll themselves, it's the best we have
<samueldr>
>> now the impression it gives me is some generic tech junk :/
<samueldr>
I thought you were better than that
<gchristensen>
ow
<samueldr>
(and everyone else saying similar things too)
<samueldr>
how is updating the website to be somewhat more modern not a good thing, when the implementation is not a total brokenness-fest?
<samueldr>
or is it that instantly a "modern look" (for lack of a better term) associated with loads and loads of bad JS-driven infinitely lazy-loading website?
<gchristensen>
let 'em be grumpy. they're not the people the website is trying to speak to
<samueldr>
sure, but they're vocal, and might be seen by those people and repulse some
<gchristensen>
yeah
<gchristensen>
probably not, though
<samueldr>
I also want to try to understand the reasoning behind it though
<samueldr>
and what better way than to ask someone who generally here I already talk to
<cole-h>
samueldr: While I personally disagree with those people, I think it might be your "modern look" point, at least partially
<samueldr>
maybe there is something they haven't put their finger on?
<samueldr>
so what, we should have went with a geocities' 1998 look?
<gchristensen>
maybe, but you don't need to do the emotional work to work through their ocean-rudeness and figure it out a
<cole-h>
yes pls
<cole-h>
/s
<samueldr>
gchristensen: at least I think pie_ is not a rude person :) (though I might have started a bit confrontational, oop)
<gchristensen>
:)
<gchristensen>
people can commit a rudeness without being a rude person (semantic satiation on "rude")
<samueldr>
I wouldn't have wanted to ask most other people I've seen being all miffed that it "looks like every other websites" though
<gchristensen>
yeah
<gchristensen>
for example, I think I'm pretty generally not rude, but I think I'm being rude now
<samueldr>
right, but I can definitely make abstraction of a rude action from a nice person, rather than not knowing whether a rude individual is just being rude
<gchristensen>
aye
<cole-h>
samueldr++ gchristensen++
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 340
<{^_^}>
samueldr's karma got increased to 273
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<eyJhb>
Well, some of us are rude AND grumpy
<eyJhb>
But what is it with a new website?
<eyJhb>
Ah.
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<leonardp>
i really like the new website! ++ to all contributors
<Valodim>
definitely a step forward! love to see folks taking marketing seriously
<drakonis>
store a store elsewhere and symlink it to the root
<eyJhb>
Shouldn't it paginate andi- ?
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<drakonis>
it got committed today
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<energizer>
drakonis: why didnt it work before?
<andi->
eyJhb: it should return something, there should be a lot of stuff like an offline copy of our issues...
<drakonis>
dont ask me.
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<eyJhb>
But, I am guessing that Github NEEDS to return at least something :p
<energizer>
also, why would someone want to do that?
<eyJhb>
My customers do not like when I say stuff "should work"
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<__monty__>
energizer: macOS Catalina
<andi->
i added it to my list of "keep the gh cache warm" url list as otherwise this stuff is unuseable.
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<andi->
maybe in the morning having 30 servers poll it every minute will help.
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<energizer>
__monty__: you can't write into /nix but you can somehow put a symlink there?
<__monty__>
energizer: I think they call it a firmlink? It's through synthetic.conf.
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<abathur>
well
<abathur>
interesting!
<abathur>
late to this party, but if so energizer the big difference is that we have a narrow mechanism, /etc/synthetic.conf, that lets us specify some root empty directories the system will create, which we can either mount to or symlink to
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<abathur>
but mounting has been it's own nightmare pita because we haven't found OneRoutineToRuleThemAll that lets us create a volume, respecting the system's existing encryption settings, and avoids race conditions if anything on their Nix Store volume tries to restore on load before the volume has been decrypted and mounted :(
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<abathur>
oh hmm
<abathur>
drakonis is this nix#4038 ? I think it's just formalizing the existing override and not addressing the fact that it'll break some builds
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<abathur>
I guess with the ability to simply add it to the conf it may be worth a broader test on how often/where the symlink will actually leak and mess up builds
<abathur>
if it's very edge-case, it might be worth making it the default install option, leaving the current volume option as a fallback, and maybe figuring out a script for converting a symlink store to a volume store or something
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