gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<ashkitten> me too thanks
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<c74d> "* lejonet is still a bit stuck in how the gentoo channels were setup, where #gentoo was for questions regarding the distro, #gentoo-dev was a closed channel for devs only and #gentoo-chat handled most of the things inbetween :P <samueldr> oh, that's unfortunate <samueldr> transparency is great" — it should perhaps be clarified that "closed" there meant mode +m, not +i
* c74d rejoined #gentoo-dev to make sure that was still the case, double-took at the /topic...
<lejonet> What was the topic?
<c74d> "Gentoo Development Channel | Arch bugs: https://www.akhuettel.de/gentoo-bugs/arches.php"
<c74d> (I initially read that as "Arch Linux" rather than "processor architecture")
<samueldr> hah
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<pie_> can someone get this merged into the kernel? :P https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/12/10/1155 (well theres a later newer patch some ways down)
<pie_> samueldr? :PP
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<pie_> navigating mailing lists is fun, new version https://lists.openwall.net/netdev/2014/12/31/109
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<drakonis> what a mood killer
<drakonis> i need a replacement phone
<drakonis> because i cant do a project now that i found out about this unique factoid
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<drakonis> gdi this is miserable
<samueldr> pie_: I'm not really more involved in (mainlin) kernel development than you are
<samueldr> (mainline)*
<samueldr> drakonis: what kind of detail?
<samueldr> I can see so many just the top off my head :)
<samueldr> specific NFC tag frequencies
<samueldr> bluetooth BLE (for older phones)
<samueldr> simply not having the latest android, thus latest APIs
<pie_> :p
<samueldr> why were you singling me out?
<drakonis> bluetooth is turbo fucked on my phone
<drakonis> i can't pair with devices
<drakonis> and receive commands from devices
<samueldr> and I figure it's out of warranty
<drakonis> i can however send them
<drakonis> yes, sadly.
<drakonis> well
<drakonis> i think it is at this point, its a xiaomi phone and i'm in brazil
<samueldr> if it makes you feel better (it probably shouldn't) it's not like being in-warranty would help
<drakonis> i know
<drakonis> i'm aware it wouldnt help
<samueldr> they'd never understand what the fault actually is
<pie_> samueldr: idk i just know you do kernel stuff? maybe? sorto of? 'xD
<samueldr> not yet, just made people contribute a patch for the second time to fix stuff from reports
<drakonis> i'm going to get a different phone
<pie_> todays roundabout: continued trying to learn about "enterprise" storage stuff, somehow ended up at macsec (layer 2 encryption or something), and then somehow ended up looking at TCP Stealth >.>
<drakonis> i'll just get something with either android one or a phone that has a non terrible rom scene
<pie_> not sure how i made the jump betwen the last two. probably some coincidence
<samueldr> android one "means nothing" these days :(
<samueldr> only that it has access to some lighter weight apps because it's likely to be an under-specced phone
<samueldr> IIRC OEMs can ship an android one device without the bootloader unlock ability
<drakonis> hmm
<drakonis> fffs
<samueldr> and IIRC OEMs can (now?) delay updates and mess with them
<drakonis> i just want a phone with a/b
<drakonis> i havent had luck in this department
<samueldr> eek, A/B is hard to shop for
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<samueldr> basically pixel or AFAIUI recent onepluses
<drakonis> the mi a2 has it
<drakonis> as far as i'm aware
<samueldr> I think so, though that one is kind of an oddball being an android one in the spirit of older android ones... mostly
<drakonis> pixels are pretty much a no go here
<drakonis> they're not sold here and they'd be crazy expensive
<samueldr> but apparently xiaomi made bad updates for some of the A series :/
<samueldr> I figured as much
<drakonis> so i've heard
<drakonis> they have really decent rom scenes though
<drakonis> the new redmis have mediatek chips and pretty much no roms
<drakonis> sadly
<samueldr> it feels lately there's no real good winners
<drakonis> oh yeah :(
<drakonis> pixels are pretty much only sold in the US
<samueldr> yeah, recent xiaomi (so redmis) have ARB, anti-rollback
<drakonis> bummer
<samueldr> and one of the recent mediatek xiaomi with ARB had a buggy ARB that, instead of forcing you to reset the phone, basically hard bricks the phone
<drakonis> oh yeah
<drakonis> i almost got one of those
<drakonis> instead i got the one i have now
<samueldr> my friend had one of them, he donated it to mobile nixos :)
<drakonis> that one's the redmi note 8
<drakonis> big bummer
<drakonis> i want a phone i can run pmos on it
<drakonis> but the ones that support it well arent sold anymore in here
<samueldr> luckily there's a leaked factory firmware that can be installed *before* bricking and, in turn, these allow reflashing even when bricked
<drakonis> amazing
<drakonis> but there's no roms for it?
<samueldr> there are since that discovery
<drakonis> hmm, interesting.
<samueldr> but IIRC nothing amazing in term of selection
<samueldr> though I may be wrong
<drakonis> that piqued my curiosity
<samueldr> there are links in the device-specific notes
<samueldr> though I reiterate that it's not a good choice
<drakonis> i'm aware it isnt a very good phone
<samueldr> it's not a bad hardware choice, but the roll of the dice on bricking is not good
<drakonis> oh yeah
<drakonis> the screen is awful though
<drakonis> it makes the whole package kinda crappy
<samueldr> I can't say I got enough time with it to know... and I have worse around :)
<drakonis> plus you can roll the dice and get a phone with ghost touch
<drakonis> my mi 9 se rolled all the bad rolls
<drakonis> i have a screen that can get ghost touch if i apply pressure in the wrong spots
<drakonis> hmm
<drakonis> apparently it is possible to buy a pixel in brazil now
<drakonis> its just really really expensive
<drakonis> on the other hand, the pixel 4a has uhhh
<drakonis> how hard will i be punished for rooting a google phone?
<drakonis> i recall some hearsay about android 11 making it easier to root the phone
<samueldr> never permanently AFAIK
<samueldr> if you end up tripping safetynet, you can just reinstall stock and no one knows
<samueldr> it's not like some OEMs that trip a permanent thing like samsung knock
<samueldr> or make it a server-side toggle like many
<samueldr> it's between you and your phone, and safetynet trusts what your phone reports (for allegedly good reasons) and doesn't care about the past status, it only lives in the present
<drakonis> man i hate samsung a lot
<samueldr> (they're not alone in tripping a permanent thing)
<samueldr> (though I think they're the only one that links it to a part of a trademarked feature)
<drakonis> i think android provides the facilities for efuse based safetynet
<drakonis> still does
<drakonis> but isnt the norm i guess
<drakonis> ahhh this is a moodkiller
<drakonis> because my current phone options arent very hot
<drakonis> the redmi note 8 seems kinda fine tho
<drakonis> its a snapdragon
<drakonis> but it has a notch ffs
<samueldr> it might be, though there still is ARB to be wary of with all newer xiaomi devices
<samueldr> begonia (remi note 8 _pro_) was an exception (hopefully) in its buggy implementation
<samueldr> oh, redmi note 7 might be a good option, there's a couple devs working on non-android linuces
<samueldr> like postmarketOS, and ubports
<samueldr> and sailfishOS I think too
<drakonis> that'd be nice and fun
<drakonis> if i can find one
<drakonis> honestly
<samueldr> (totally not really useful)
<drakonis> its useful for very very narrow use cases
<drakonis> pmos seems to be a bit further way
<drakonis> the specs arent bad
<samueldr> though it's not A/B
<drakonis> i see
<samueldr> it has official LinageOS support IIRC
<drakonis> nice
<drakonis> a lotta official roms too
<drakonis> might get some more years out o fit
<drakonis> out of it
<drakonis> mid end phones are just ugh
<drakonis> budget phones that is
<drakonis> they dont last very long
<drakonis> i dont think i've ever seen this many official roms before
<samueldr> it took about maybe a year before it really picked up
<samueldr> maybe more
<drakonis> nice
<samueldr> for a while there was nothing
<drakonis> i think i've spotted that for sale around here
<drakonis> i'll go check on it tomorrow
<samueldr> check the specs carefully for your needs, but I believe it should be fine
<drakonis> should be fine
<samueldr> aaand... postmarketOS *with mainline kernel support*, and Mobile NixOS with... maybe both oem kernel and mainline
<samueldr> (currently only oem kernel)
<drakonis> ohhhhh
<drakonis> nice
<drakonis> holy shit.
<drakonis> that looks like it'll last me a good while
<drakonis> does pmos have the ability to run any android bits or is that still not ready?
<samueldr> I'm not sure
<drakonis> oh and uhh
<drakonis> emacs?
<samueldr> I believe android bits supporrt is highly variable per device
<drakonis> i would like to have something like orgmode on the go instead of shitty stripped down versions
<samueldr> emacs? I mean, at that point it's just software :)
<drakonis> i guess
<samueldr> might not be the best experience, but I figure it should work
<drakonis> hmm
<drakonis> looks like google is doing mandatory a/b now
<samueldr> last I heard every year it's now mandatory :/
<samueldr> and it seems it never is?
<drakonis> its for android 11 onwards
<drakonis> its enforced now
<samueldr> until I see OEMs doing it I won't believe it :)
<drakonis> virtual a/b it seems
<drakonis> interesting.
<drakonis> this is kind of interesting really
<samueldr> yeah, that's a big mess in reality
<danielrf[m]> yeah, in android 11, they have one big "super" partition that android handles entirely on its own
<samueldr> yep
<drakonis> beautiful really
<danielrf[m]> so they can implement A/B without relying on vendors
<drakonis> thank goodness
<samueldr> except it's all offsets based
<drakonis> i hate that
<samueldr> and no, it doesn't mean that really
<samueldr> until they start shipping android updates direct to consumers, OEMs are really free to do what they want...
<samueldr> but in practice they'd probably not be able to use the "full" android and google services if they don't implement everything right
<samueldr> uh, in theory*
<drakonis> well
<samueldr> but in practice they can do it wrong
<danielrf[m]> stuff like this is a kindof unfortunate, that so many technical decisions are based around the frictions between oems and upstream android
<danielrf[m]> true
<samueldr> yes
<samueldr> oh shoot
<drakonis> google wants to disallow google services if you dont do that
<drakonis> it seems
<samueldr> you both have blueish names on my irc client
<drakonis> so they're going for the balls now
<samueldr> I thought you were one person
<drakonis> haha rip
<samueldr> hi danielrf[m]
<danielrf[m]> haha, hey
<drakonis> as it turns out, the a2 actually does come with a/b
<drakonis> so nice?
<samueldr> it also flowed so nicely
<drakonis> but its one phone
<samueldr> yeah, it's one of those android one that are true in spirit
<danielrf[m]> So, android >=10 has "APEX" packages, which allow them to push updates to what used to be parts of the core AOSP images via google play
<danielrf[m]> only certain parts of AOSP have been put into apex packages so far though--but I think it's the plan to move lots of stuff in there
<samueldr> it'd be so much nicer if android was done the way chrome os is... where google ships the OS, manufacturers ship Hardware, nothing more
<samueldr> (and it'd also help if the SoC vendors supported their hardware for longer than 3 years)
<drakonis> most hardware vendors tend to support phones for way too little time
<samueldr> definitely
<drakonis> my samsung lasted a year
<drakonis> year!
<samueldr> so yeah, those virtual partitions, AFAIUI starting with pixel 3, no?
<samueldr> dynamic partitions*
<samueldr> and AFAIK the only OEM which started using that too is oneplus with the 7
<drakonis> hmmm
<drakonis> neat
<danielrf[m]> samueldr: I think that'
<drakonis> its for phones that launch with android 10
<danielrf[m]> *that's right about it starting with pixel 3
<drakonis> hahaha
<drakonis> eat shit samsung
<samueldr> yeah, I know it is since that was one of the discoveries at last nixcon with craige
<danielrf[m]> don't know much about the wider android ecosystem tbh though
<samueldr> it was puzzling to learn about fastbootd
<drakonis> if the phone has android 11, it can only ota using seamless updates
<samueldr> the fun thing is I *think* that with mobile nixos we might be able to just ignore dynamic partitions entirely
<drakonis> its the only available ota method for android 11
<drakonis> beautiful.
<samueldr> oh, you'll see other methods I'm sure
<samueldr> Vendors, ODMs and OEMs have a knack for making google's plans worthless :(
<drakonis> if they dont do that, they cant ship google's apps
<drakonis> so the secret juice will be not updating to 11 :V
<danielrf[m]> :)
<drakonis> i'm so tired though
<drakonis> welp, time for a break
<drakonis> tomorrow i'll check a phone out
<drakonis> those pixel feature drops are hella cool tho
<drakonis> the real annoying bit about android roms is that there's three dozen derivatives
<drakonis> they're all too similar
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<aleph-> bqv: Hey when you have a chance, you have a pleroma deriv right? Mind if I get a gander at it?
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<aleph-> Well that's cursed looking mildly
<aleph-> Thanks!
<aleph-> I'll ask bqv how they actually run it tomorrow.
<bqv> i don't :')
<cole-h> Welcome to most things bqv touches :P
<bqv> and it's extremely cursed
<cole-h> I mean uhhh
<cole-h> :P
<ashkitten> drakonis: oh good, jackdbus is on the roadmap
<bqv> cole-h: fairly true, tbh
<bqv> currently hacking at that nix PR, it built but it's put all 16 of my cores at 100%
<cole-h> bqv: I have no idea why it's not working
<bqv> i just came at it from a totally different angle to get around that
<cole-h> Like, I didn't see any magic for any of the other settings stuff, just getters...
<bqv> but i'm not sure if my method works cause, my system's "busy"
<cole-h> Heh
<cole-h> I'd offer to build it as well, but...
* cole-h cries in 4c4t
<ashkitten> i think the issue i had with pipewire when i tried last was mainly just instability. after a while i'd get very choppy buzzy audio and have to restart firefox, and it had issues with pavucontrol
<bqv> lol
<cole-h> ashkitten: You got pipewire to work? 👀
<ashkitten> yes, there's a nixpkgs pr somewhere that adds support for faking pulse/jack/alsa
<cole-h> 👀‼
<bqv> i'm a total retard
<cole-h> o no
<bqv> template<> void BaseSetting<LogFormat>::convertToArg(Args & args, const std::string & category)
<bqv> {
<bqv> BaseSetting::convertToArg(args, category);
<bqv> }
<cole-h> o
<{^_^}> #93725 (by nglen, 6 weeks ago, open): nixos/pipewire: add transparent ALSA/PulseAudio/JACK support
<cole-h> ashkitten++
<{^_^}> ashkitten's karma got increased to 22
<cole-h> ashkitten: Bookmarked for when I have less paralyzed brain cells
<cole-h> ty
<ashkitten> bqv: can you not use that sort of ableist language here please
<drakonis> wrong person?
* bqv -> elsewhere
<cole-h> I still need to unlearn that as a "how stupid" synonym...
<ashkitten> "st*pid" isn't better, ftr
<cole-h> Oh
<cole-h> What should I use instead? x)
<ashkitten> drakonis: oh, you posted the pipewire link
<cole-h> ashkitten: How about meaning "That's st*pid", as in "You got pulled over for going 1 MPH over the speed limit? That's st*pid." None of the "consider instead" seems to tackle that use case, for me.
<ashkitten> crappy, unfair, annoying, biased, senseless
<cole-h> Cheers.
<ashkitten> np
<ashkitten> i really appreciate this community's openness to feedback like that
<ashkitten> cole-h++
<{^_^}> cole-h's karma got increased to 88
<cole-h> It's not something I've ever had to think about before, so I appreciate you calling it out. Sometimes it might feel like splitting hairs, but if it helps make someone feel more comfortable, I'm all for it.
<cole-h> I'm always learning.
<cole-h> ashkitten++
<{^_^}> ashkitten's karma got increased to 23
<ashkitten> and as long as people are trying to do better i will never get upset at mistakes or messy language
<cole-h> Maybe I'll just replace all my language with "bruh".
<cole-h> :P
<cole-h> "You got pulled over for speeding 1 MPH over the speed limit? Bruh."
<ashkitten> heh, well, watch out who you're gendering with that
<cole-h> Crap
<ashkitten> some people might be fine with it regardless, some might not
<cole-h> I feel like "dude" (and by extension, "bruh") are genderless in the way many use them, but not everybody might share that opinion.
<ashkitten> it all depends on who you're talking to, it's just generally ill-advised to use phrasing by default that some people might take offense to
<cole-h> If they do get offended, I hope they let me know (in a hopefully non-antagonistic way), so I can correct ^^;
<ashkitten> i hope so too
<cole-h> I've been watching a YouTube series on how to design a PCB for a mechanical keyboard, and I gotta say... electrical engineering looks real cool.
<ashkitten> ikr
<ashkitten> i don't understand how it works but it sure doen
<ashkitten> does*
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<bqv> fixed!
<cole-h> 👀!!
<cole-h> bqv: (Slight nit: I would move `Setting<LogFormat> logFormat` to the end of the public section)
<cole-h> Since `isExperimentalFeatureEnabled` is directly related to the line just above (or what used to be just above) -- `Setting<Strings> experimentalFeatures`
<bqv> Meh, I'm already in bed.
<cole-h> :P
<cole-h> I'll make a suggestion, then.
<cole-h> bqv: Though, what do you mean by "removed the --option option instead"?
<bqv> --option log-format won't override the config, but --log-format will
<cole-h> Huh
<cole-h> Seems weird to me. Why is that desirable?
<cole-h> (Seems weird that it would be different.)
<bqv> I dropped it from the --options args. It was the only way I could see to avoid a clusterfsck of linkage problems
<bqv> Without an even larger unnecessary refactor
<cole-h> I see. Maybe that would be useful insight for the PR (but might cause someone to request you do that larger refactor so that `--option log-format` and `--log-format` both override...)
<bqv> Mostly just praying they don't 👀 it's already special-cased, I think a little magical behaviour that perfectly maintains the status quo is fine
* bqv wanders off to listen to a cage of infinite monkeys
<colemickens> what's the best way to access things like runCommandNoCC through flakes? do I have to just import nixpkgs myself?
<cole-h> I believe so.
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<colemickens> ozone is happening people https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/97201
<{^_^}> #97201 (by colemickens, 3 minutes ago, open): google-chrome: add libxkbcommon+wayland for ozone/wayland
<ashkitten> oh yeah chrome exists
<MichaelRaskin> Indeed, a pity
<ashkitten> well it's a good thing it exists, a bad thing it has so much control over the web
<MichaelRaskin> By now it is just a bad thing it exists
<ashkitten> yeah true
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<crazazy[m]> ugh this is the second time CI failed updating packages because of some random parse error in npm or something
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<MichaelRaskin> Hm. NixCon CoC looks suboptimally worded. «Authentic» seems toi have unfortunate Facebook-like connotation «you'd better have one true identity and reveal it fully», in my opinion respect and cooperative approach beat authenticity whenever they are not aligned.
<MichaelRaskin> And the pretty wordy description of behaviours making people uncomfortable assumes (if read as written) nobody ever dislikes being _praised_ for maybe praiseworthy but surely offtopic things they want to take a break from.
<MichaelRaskin> (Expected behaviour: active participation also reads a bit negative towards lurking)
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<aleph-> bqv: Yeah that is a broken derivative alright.
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<aleph-> Sure as crud wouldn't compile on my setup
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<crazazy[m]> :q
<crazazy[m]> oops
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<colemickens> in my defense, my excitement over google-chrome is that it means chromium has arrived too (but I lack a big CPU right now).
<colemickens> And even then I only care because Ozone, and I mostly only care about Ozone because of VS Code. It's just too good to quit.
<V> ooh, electron is finally wayland?
<colemickens> And of course by VS Code, I mean Codium.
<V> electron is wayland??!
<colemickens> V: soon! dev builds of chrom(e|ium) are built with ozone support
<V> \o/
<V> party time
<colemickens> In Arch land people have already been making franken ozone electron builds I think
<colemickens> Fair warning, I think things take a while to propagate to electron and then to actual electron applications.
<V> I might start using Atom again once this gets in
<V> and it'll certainly make using Signal Desktop nicer
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<evanjs> I've said it before but omg the community. Idk, like I just got 4 PRs merged by worldofpeace in the span of 2 hours and like -- idk. I just remember back when I was using gentoo.
<evanjs> Like... I was a user back when the controversy over the mailing list was pretty new
<evanjs> When they were shutting off access to anybody that wasn't already a member (/contributor?) or had been invited. People were complaining about them moving into an ivory tower and etc
<evanjs> Tbf, I don't remember actually trying to contribute much, but I'm sure at least some of that can be attributed to the ecosystem and etc. I've always found GitHub extremely easy to use to contribute to projects
<evanjs> Stuff like Phabricator and etc tho... blah
<evanjs> Hydra is also extremely helpful in terms of stress and etc :P
<evanjs> *flashbacks to crazy configs that I often had to pay for*
<evanjs> Soooooooooo much easier to do so with NixOS and just keep running
<colemickens> :) :) :)
<V> evanjs: gentoo is extremely awful with maintainers though
<V> feels like they're trying to give mozilla a run for their money :)
<ldlework> Anyone around to help me understand a tiny tiny bit of nixpkgs infrastructure?
<evanjs> V: yeah I was never too deeply involved so I wouldn't really know, but just from an outside perspective it seemed sort of hostile, idk
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<samueldr> ldlework: maybe, maybe not, but it's so big you should ask
<samueldr> because it's unlikely one individual can answer for all of nixpkgs
<samueldr> and uh... not on -chat
<colemickens> fwiw I think they did ask in #nixos about dotnet overriding
<samueldr> oh, sorry then, and good work asking
<samueldr> been busy making food, I didn't realise it was 50 minutes back
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<evanjs> discord is the worst for me and old messages like that. I forget to scroll down, respond to somebody that posted 6 hours prior, etc ...
<immae> evanjs: do you know that there is a bitlbee plugin to connect to discord? This might help you get a usage closer to the one you have on IRC
<bqv> aleph-: rip