gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<ashkitten> nix store but for git
<infinisil> Oh my: git.overrideAttrs (old: { makeFlags = old.makeFlags ++ [ "ENABLESHA256=1" ]; })
<infinisil> Oh my: git.overrideAttrs (old: { makeFlags = old.makeFlags ++ [ "ENABLE_SHA256=1" ]; })
<drakonis> huh.
<aleph-> infinisil: But whyyy?
<infinisil> aleph-: GIT_OBJECT_DIRECTORY?
<aleph-> Ya
<drakonis> yarf
<infinisil> Only one directory to back up, stores all your commits
<aleph-> Oh god
<infinisil> Then I don't necessarily need to ZFS snapshot all the project directories, avoiding snapshotting intermediate build products
<infinisil> Hmm, even after compiling with above flag, "fatal: The hash algorithm sha256 is not supported in this build."
<infinisil> With `GIT_DEFAULT_HASH=sha256 result/bin/git init`
<infinisil> Trying with "-DENABLE_SHA256=1" instead
<infinisil> This worked! git.overrideAttrs (old: { NIX_CFLAGS_COMPILE = [ "-DENABLE_SHA256=1" ]; })
<infinisil> let's see how github handles it lol
<infinisil> Well, apparently git itself can't even handle it yet. For any command I get "fatal: unknown repository extensions found: objectformat"
tilpner_ has joined #nixos-chat
rajivr has joined #nixos-chat
tilpner has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
tilpner_ is now known as tilpner
<abathur> <3 infinisil
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 356
<aleph-> infinisil: heheheh
<energizer> i'm at 99% inode usage (1 million) on a 1TB NFS filesystem. is there a way i can find where all my inodes went without traversing the whole filesystem, since traversal on NFS takes forever
nullheroes has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
<aleph-> Wait 99% is 1M?
<aleph-> Huh
<aleph-> Is that inherent to NFS or is that the backing fs?
<energizer> it's just the limit that has been imposed in this case
<energizer> by admins
<aleph-> Ahhh, got it
<energizer> s/it's/1 million is/
Emantor has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
Emantor has joined #nixos-chat
LnL has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
LnL has joined #nixos-chat
LnL has joined #nixos-chat
LnL has quit [Changing host]
<spacekookie> oh god, I knew the day would come that I'd regret just running rustup. My rustc just broke after an update >.>
<aleph-> Ouch
<JJJollyjim> Occasionally rust reminds me that it is possible for a nightly to have bugs
<JJJollyjim> Though shockingly infrequently
nckx has quit [Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org]
nckx has joined #nixos-chat
aleph- has quit [Quit: WeeChat info:version]
waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
aleph- has joined #nixos-chat
aleph- has quit [Quit: WeeChat info:version]
aleph- has joined #nixos-chat
nckx has quit [Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org]
nckx has joined #nixos-chat
<drakonis> ho ho ho
<iqubic> ldlework: I know you were trying to get as many different languages working concurrently in org-babel as you could. In my mind that makes you a Nix + Org-Babel expert. Because of that, I'd like to ask you a question. I'm trying to get haskell execution working properly. This, however, is an issue because org-babel complains it can't find a GHC installation. Now, I could go ahead and install GHC globally, but I'd really rather not do
<iqubic> that. Do you know what I could do instead?
<ashkitten> i bricked my phone :<
<ashkitten> idk where the other phones in this apartment are to use until i unbrick it
<ashkitten> funny enough i wouldn't have bricked it with mobile-nixos, but android did it in
<samueldr> I'm curious
<samueldr> there's so many fewer safeguards!
<samueldr> in fact once you're on the running system, there are no safeguards!
<ashkitten> idk, ky0ko said it was probably the act of rebooting to recovery from twrp
<ashkitten> which rebooted into qdl mode instead
<ashkitten> so it's not really a brick
<ashkitten> but i can't get it out of qdl without tools
<samueldr> 30s power press?
<samueldr> from my experimenting with oneplus3 IIRC it's screwey a bit
<samueldr> it doesn't answer to the usual "long" press, which is short in comparison
<samueldr> probably specific to the exact device, but AFAIUI it's something like you need to force the PMIC into a specific state
<samueldr> or something along the line
<ashkitten> nothing on power
<ashkitten> it's a moto one hyper fwiw
<samueldr> looking at a clock, how long have you held the button for? I'd do i for a full 1:30 (one minute thirty second) just to be extra-mega-sure
<samueldr> sure, it's probably way longer than needed, and might be hard with some devices / hands-coordination
<samueldr> (I have hard time pressing a "tight" power button for long, so I often have to reset the counter when doing long presses that way :/)
<samueldr> not because of pain, but because of dumb fingers being too flexible
<ashkitten> nope
<ashkitten> 2 minutes straight nothing
<samueldr> hmm, off any kind of usb connection?
<samueldr> QDL is so user-hostile when "accidentally" triggered
<ashkitten> i should try it plugged in?
<samueldr> I don't know :)
<samueldr> e.g. you can't know if you're in QDL for a real reason, and if so, which
<samueldr> and you can't actually know without having deeper knowledge (like you do) that you're in QDL!
<samueldr> it just looks ded!
<ashkitten> but this is not ded at least :p
<ashkitten> unlike my samsung gs6a
<samueldr> ashkitten: what's the codename for the phone?
<ashkitten> motorola-def
<samueldr> trying to see if QDL programmers are out
<samueldr> one good thing: if it's "really" stuck in QDL there is probably no way they can nag you with "unlocked means warranty is void"
<ashkitten> :p
<samueldr> (which anyway in the two northernmost countries of north america is not true)
<samueldr> I'm probably terrible at searching for the firehose programmers, and/or the phone is too new
<samueldr> nothing on the horizon
<samueldr> I even broke bing.com out
<ashkitten> someone else in the xda thread said the dev of the unofficial twrp helped them unbrick theirs so im happy waiting for a response
<ashkitten> sick
<ashkitten> this fixed it
<samueldr> oh neat, I had searched "one hyper" and "blankflash" as I saw that in motorola-land it seemd something common
<samueldr> but didn't find that
<samueldr> you might want to backup this : https://mirrors.lolinet.com/firmware/moto/def/
<samueldr> AFAIUI motorola makes it basically impossible for non-windows users to get those files
<samueldr> in official, there will be telco-based and other firmwares
<samueldr> I backed the ones there are for addison just in case
<samueldr> (good to know that this particular mirror is really good)
<samueldr> not saying you ever will need them, but better have them in case
* samueldr reads more about "blankflash"
<samueldr> apparently there's one for addison and I didn't know about that, so that might allow me to be more reckless
<samueldr> hmm, I don't know if I understand this well, but it looks like qboot embeds the firehose programmer
<samueldr> interesting
<JJJollyjim> ...you want me to click on a file distribution site called lolinet?
<JJJollyjim> and expect the fbi not to raid my house
<V> lol
<V> Clearly it's run by people who are into the Victorian aesthetic
<sphalerite> Maybe it stands for "LOad LInux".
<samueldr> it's from a chinese-speaking individual AFAIK, so it wouldn't surprise me it has some innocuous meaning
<samueldr> but it sure caught me off-guard the first time I saw that
<samueldr> oh no
<samueldr> >> The issue came from the fact that flashing from TWRP switches slot on phone, but out of the box slot B is not populated unless you manually flashed stock ROM to both slot or if you got an update while running stock ROM.
<samueldr> >> Since there's no bootloader on slot B, it just brick the phone.
<samueldr> ashkitten: ^ that's the dumbest thing I've read tonight
<ashkitten> right?
<ashkitten> i mean, aside from your word choice there
<samueldr> hm?
<ashkitten> ("dumb" is ableist language)
<samueldr> how come?
<samueldr> and what should be used instead?
<ashkitten> i have a webpage i direct people to for this
ixxie has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> (note that for ESLs, it's really hard to navigate between common informal parlance and "newer" [not that new] speech around that)
<ashkitten> i'm not sure exactly what you mean sorry
<samueldr> those who speak english as a second language
<ashkitten> right, i just don't understand the sentence as a whole
<samueldr> avoiding accidentally being ableist
<samueldr> (or other isms even)
<ashkitten> ah, yeah
<ashkitten> it's understandable even for native english speakers to have those words in their vocabulary. it's popular language
<ashkitten> my goal is just to inform
<samueldr> like, just now, I told myself "ah right, probably the deafs, duh", then though "let's check stupid... but surely stupid is just stupid?"
<samueldr> and it seems it comes from an original meaning that was used as a medical term
<samueldr> so now I just feel I don't want to speak anymore :/
<samueldr> sorry if it's a bit heavy
<ashkitten> we have a lot of ableism ingrained in our speech patterns
<ashkitten> and it takes conscious effort to not
<samueldr> I know it's not an easy topic, and I'm definitely not the best one to judge, but sometimes I wonder if for some words instead it's "devolving" the languages into keeping the older meanings instead of evolving into... hmmm... leaving behind(?) the older meanings that are already more archaic?
<samueldr> way too big of a question though, and a hard topic
<samueldr> and definitely no generalization can be made
<samueldr> I mean, I'm not even sure I have the right vocabulary to know how to explain the thoughts I have
<ashkitten> generally the rule of thumb is don't use potentially problematic language unless you are part of the affected groups and are making a conscious and explicit effort to reclaim those words
<MichaelRaskin> I think for some pairs of words I have seen people claiming _both_ directions of preferred replacement
<samueldr> see, that I understand, when there is an affected group still... but when it's about an archaic diagnosis that is not in use, who can reclaim it?
<samueldr> and sorry, I don't intend to put that squarely on _your_ shoudlers
<samueldr> shoulders*
<ashkitten> people who are intellectually disabled are still affected by the use of the word "stupid"
<ixxie> I hear you and I think these are very valid concerns, on the other hand I'm wondering how far should we run with this?
<ashkitten> as far as you have to run to stop harming people
<ixxie> My previous sentence for example contains three phrase choices that could be considered implicitly ableist
<energizer> what is the advantage of describing things as <synonym for bad> instead of just explaining the specific problem
<ixxie> energizer: encapsulating your attitude to the thing without going into details
<ixxie> thus saving time
<ixxie> ashkitten: there is an inherent challenge because on the one hand, we should indeed be cautious not to hurt people but on the other hand we can't let every feeling of being insulted or hurt by any person dictate the whole of social practice because some people are cultivating an overly sensitive attitude
<ixxie> sometimes for malicious reasons
<ashkitten> i think that's a cop-out, sorry
<ashkitten> yes concern trolls exist, but you should not let them keep you from trying to improve yourself
<MichaelRaskin> ashkitten: technically speaking, consuming some resources harms other people no matter what…
<samueldr> peeps, just make sure to not accidentally (nor willingly) dogpile here
<ixxie> ashkitten: I'm not saying we shouldn't try to improve our selves... I'm saying we should watch out for people who manipulate communities into giving them attention when in reality they aren't actually hurt or offended....
<ixxie> Its actually precisely to protect actual victims and actually opressed groups that I bring this up
<ashkitten> maybe so... but i know that ableism is not a victimless offense
<ixxie> I am not disagreeing!
<ashkitten> i have a (intellectually disabled) friend who comes to me quite often really upset because they keep seeing people using these common slurs without regard for who they hurt
<ashkitten> it's painful to see it so commonly, so i'm trying to do my part to educate people
<MichaelRaskin> (I wonder how many dark etymologies were washed out enough that neither word users not the groups concerned were sure about them, then resurfaced due to absolutist dig-up efforts)
<Taneb> samueldr: if I were to buy a phone to mess around with mobile NixOS, what phone would you reccomend
<MichaelRaskin> ixxie: I think the problem is rarely with people being directly hit by the offense, though.
<samueldr> Taneb: I don't know of any I would recommend *outright*, but the least bad choice right now for being usable quicker is probably the Pinephone
<samueldr> Taneb: it also has the benefit of being quite sturdy (software-speaking) against bricking
<ixxie> MichaelRaskin: sure, but that is pretty much true by definition
<samueldr> Taneb: any from Pine64 yes
<samueldr> oh, and accessories
<Taneb> OK, good shout
<ixxie> I think this article describes an aspect of this interestingly: https://josephg.com/blog/war-over-being-nice/
<ixxie> And does so in a very well balanced way
cole-h has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
<ashkitten> ixxie: good read
<ashkitten> i don't think it addresses this topic though
<ashkitten> not in any meaningful way
<ixxie> I think there is a connection
<ixxie> well it also depends on what you consider the topic
<ixxie> We may be just talking about different things at this point :D
<ashkitten> that article is more on a personal level, it doesn't really address systemic problems
<ixxie> Yeah you have a point there
<ixxie> but the systemic and individual levels interact
<MichaelRaskin> I would say it discusses _some_ systemic problems that is not always explicitly discussed?
<ixxie> I think the bit I am wondering about is when to interpret a statement as a systemic oppression and when to just assume some other sense
<ixxie> My practical question is this, in the sentence "I hear you and I think these are very valid concerns, on the other hand I'm wondering how far should we run with this?
<MichaelRaskin> That subsystem A and subsystem B on its own work pretty well as long as the people involved prefer the corresponding subsystem, and the problem is how to negotiate interactions?
<ixxie> yeah but I think ashkitten is talking about different systemic issues
<MichaelRaskin> I just want to say that there is more than one systemic issue here
<ixxie> yeah true
<ixxie> we have metasystemic issues
<ixxie> :D
<ixxie> But in practice ashkitten: should I use terms like "I hear you" and "that is handy" and "lets run with it"?
<ashkitten> i'm losing the mental capacity to talk in depth about these things, but those are not ableist phrases
<ashkitten> not in general
<ashkitten> (at least, to my understanding)
<ashkitten> some people might take offense to that, i certainly don't
<ixxie> I guess would like to know how to distinguish between ableist phrases and non-ableist phrases *indepedently of random people saying they are offended*
<ixxie> I mean is that even possible?
<ashkitten> the introductory paragraphs on the page i linked previously are a useful explanation
<ixxie> I think I joined after you linked
<ixxie> I can't find it anyway
<ixxie> cheers
<energizer> i wonder how they decided that the "consider instead" words are better than the original words
<ixxie> and how they decide what is ableist and what isn't
<ashkitten> probably with lots of input from people who are victims of ableism, as the intro says
<ashkitten> i know from experience with directing people to this that the "consider instead" words are incomplete and don't cover all scenarios in which you might need a replacement word
<ixxie> I guess there is no way around it: the oppressed community's norms are the deciding factor for which language is offensive
<ixxie> but this resolves the issue of outliers / overly sensitive people dominating the discourse
<ixxie> there should be some consensus in the victim community that a term is offensive
<ashkitten> unfortunately that's impossible
<ashkitten> there is no "disabled community" just like there is no "lgbt community"
<ashkitten> there are numerous groups of disabled people that have differing opinions about everything just like everyone else
<ashkitten> asking for a consensus in order to be convinced to change yourself is a ridiculous notion
<ashkitten> you should consider that there are people who are affected by your actions whether you know it or not, and perhaps consider whether it affects you or them more for you to work to better yourself in ways that benefit them
<ashkitten> there is no overall "how far we should run with this"
<ashkitten> because generalizations don't work
<MichaelRaskin> Well, there might be two groups that have diametrically opposite opinions on the choice of word in the same case that directly concerns them
<ashkitten> i don't deal in hypotheticals
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, I have seen such discussions on inclusive language
<ashkitten> either way my brain is not functional enough at 02:00 to do more of this
<ashkitten> i've said my bit
<MichaelRaskin> (moreover, in Russia some bureaucracy managed to start using alternative wordings for referring to disabilities that many organisations coordinating better accomodations for health-related needs find definitely more offensive)
waleee-cl has joined #nixos-chat
<ashkitten> :o patchelf is useful for things besides nixos? wild
<ashkitten> just saw someone asking about it with regards to i think patching rpath for programs with caps set
<MichaelRaskin> Beyond Nix ecosystem, even. I think even Nixpkgs packages something that uses patchelf upstream regardless of the underlying distribution.
<MichaelRaskin> (don't remember what it is)
hax404 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1]
hax404 has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> Many of these words on the website just seems like glass half full instead of glass half empty
<eyJhb> And a general way of looking at it on the bright side instead
<sphalerite> ashkitten: yeah I think I even saw it in debian's repos long before I started using nix
parsley936 has joined #nixos-chat
<jackdk> ,locate dig
<{^_^}> Found in packages: dnsutils.dnsutils
nckx has quit [Quit: Updating my Guix System — https://guix.gnu.org]
nckx has joined #nixos-chat
iqubic` has joined #nixos-chat
iqubic` has left #nixos-chat [#nixos-chat]
iqubic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<gchristensen> is it evil to change a C function from returning -1 in all error cases to -1, -2, -3 to differentiate?
<MichaelRaskin> How much visibility into its use do you have?
<gchristensen> it is in an OSS project, but it is used 3 times inside that project all in the same file
<MichaelRaskin> And not too natural to use outside?
<MichaelRaskin> (like, is any .h file with its declaration installed?)
* gchristensen goes spelunking
<MichaelRaskin> Is there now spelunk among all the grep replacements?
<gchristensen> lol
<gchristensen> https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/blob/master/lib/libzfs/libzfs_diff.c#L59-L64 it doesn't appear to export any of these functions, so I think it is okay
<MichaelRaskin> Yeah
<gchristensen> cool, thanks!
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, re-wrapping back should be easy
<MichaelRaskin> Will you have errno-friendly error classification?
<gchristensen> it is just that last case I'm interested in
<MichaelRaskin> Hm, good question: what should this do with errno?
<gchristensen> "Unable to determine.." where diff exits 1. I want to handle that case by optionally printing out the inode number instead of its name
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, -1 + set errno is a popular pattern for kernel code
<Valodim> jackdk: in case you're not aware, drill is apparently the new dig
<jackdk> Valodim: I had no idea. thanks.
<eyJhb> ,locate bin drill
<{^_^}> Found in packages: ldns
ixxie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
peel has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<pie_> why? <Valodim> jackdk: in case you're not aware, drill is apparently the new dig
<jackdk> gchristensen: `nix-build --option substitute false`
<pie_> noooo you cant just decrease thermal energy
<pie_> hahaha fall go brrrr
<gchristensen> !
<Valodim> pie_: I'm not sure :) hence, "apparently"
<eyJhb> gchristensen: you do know, that every time you touch C, I will ask you if you are making any buffer overflows :D Not because you have done it before, but because, C
<MichaelRaskin> You might be unsure but still have some good evidence, just insufficient for confidence!
<pie_> Valodim: aha
<MichaelRaskin> «It's not you, it's C»
<gchristensen> as a rule, if I'm touching C, I'm making a big mistake
<pie_> haha
<gchristensen> (code, pointer, life)
<pie_> ivemadeaterriblemistake.jpg.c
<gchristensen> I used to have ihavenoideawhatimdoing.dog but gave it up a while ago
<pie_> aww
<eyJhb> I will say this, all .c inside my /home, has bufferoverflows, format exploits, etc!
<pie_> eyJhb: yes but you have a somewhat different audience :P
<eyJhb> pie_: SHYYYSS :D
<eyJhb> Soon I will be using Nix to make some teaching material!
<pie_> uh oh :D
<eyJhb> I am not sure how interacting with Amazong/Google TTS will go using Nix, but holy hell I want it
<pie_> i was looking at the pentest tools issue today but im spending my entire weekend trying to clean up my storage mess a bit. i doubt ill finish
<MichaelRaskin> eyJhb: come back to the light side, espeak is OK enough
<eyJhb> Pentest tools issue? - And what storage mess pie_ !
<pie_> the "i have disks and data all over the place and no backups" mess
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: Are there actually any good opensource projects that one could use instead?
<pie_> theres an issue on the tracker somewhere about packaging the tools on kali
<MichaelRaskin> eyJhb: > espeak is OK enough
<eyJhb> No no no
<eyJhb> No
<eyJhb> Bad MichaelRaskin
<eyJhb> Just trying it out real quick again
<MichaelRaskin> I think I have also used something Festival-based on Android
<MichaelRaskin> Inbefore: yes, I like robots if they are predictable and not destructive, why do you ask?
<pie_> i tried some random tts stuff on f-droid and everything is extremely bad compared to google tts which is not bad at all
<pie_> :/
<MichaelRaskin> I have listened multiple books via some F-Droid-shipped TTS, probably Flite, and it was fine
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: Do we need to call someone?
<MichaelRaskin> A bit monotonic, a bit silly at reading some abbreviations, which I find OK as it lets me be sure it doesn't silently distort the text in the style of Xerox-photocopying-text-with-non-maximum-quality
<eyJhb> pie_: try the soundcloud example for the mozilla TTS
<pie_> i too saw that article or something <MichaelRaskin> A bit monotonic, a bit silly at reading some abbreviations, which I find OK as it lets me be sure it doesn't silently distort the text in the style of Xerox-photocopying-text-with-non-maximum-quality
<pie_> eyJhb: definitely better
<pie_> the weird emphasis is maybe definitely worse than monotonic voice though
<pie_> i feel like if i listened to a whole book of TTS it would break my speech or something
<eyJhb> pie_: jokes on you! Mine is already broken
<pie_> i mean yes but, worse
<eyJhb> etu and talyz can vouch for that! Plus I am Danish so I guess they will always say that
<eyJhb> At times I cannot have a conversation with my dad, becasue he can't understand anything I say. Same with my GF :p
<eyJhb> Sometimes we just give up
<eyJhb> pie_: It might actually improve it!
<gchristensen> ahh the smell of hot dust.
<MichaelRaskin> Are you heating up the house by spinning up an old inefficient builder?
<viric> A whole book with TTS?
<viric> That has to be a horrible experience
<MichaelRaskin> Nah, it was fine
<MichaelRaskin> In one-hour increments
<gchristensen> pellet stove :P
<pie_> MichaelRaskin: everyone knows youre weird anyway ;P <3
<pie_> gchristensen: the last bite of some of my cereal kind of tasted like dirt
<gchristensen> neat
<pie_> how is it thatin 2020 power management on a x250 is broken sometimes :C
<pie_> im telling cpupower to lower the freq, and frequency-info shows the policy set, but its running at 76C at 2.5GHz anyway
<pie_> ok maybe the thing is just buggy, i set a different freq and it worked
<MichaelRaskin> I think at some point there was a difference between the top non-boost setting and the one negligibly below, in that the top non-boost setting being specified allows boosting with decision made … somehow
abathur has quit [Quit: abathur]
<eyJhb> pie_: x250! Traitor!
<ar> eyJhb: why "traitor"?
<ar> (i'm still on an X260 myself)
<ar> (still waiting for my X13…)
tim123123 has joined #nixos-chat
maxdevjs has joined #nixos-chat
<aleph-> So how many of us are around the Netherlands again?
<aleph-> Might be immigrating and I need to know who to buy beers for, for all the trouble shooting I've gotten. :P
<eyJhb> ar: just teasing :) I just have the x230 myself
<eyJhb> Didn't see much reason to go with anything else
<eyJhb> Since the x230 CPU is better than the x240, and x250 but they use less power :p
* joepie91 is Dutch
<joepie91> aleph-: also, immigrating? do tell
<aleph-> joepie91: o/ :)
<aleph-> joepie91: Eh been figuring a bug out plan in case America truly goes the way of a theocracy
<aleph-> It is relatively easy to immigrate to NL it seems
<ar> For me the cpu in x260 starts to become annoyingly slow.
<eyJhb> ar which CPU is it?
<ar> eyJhb: i7-6500U
<joepie91> aleph-: from the US, yeah, probably. prepare to need to learn the language though and some bullshit "cultural knowledge"
<ar> dual-core low voltage intel with smt
<ar> which is why i'm getting the X13 with 8-core ryzen and 32GB of ram
<eyJhb> Mine is a littre better I guess
<aleph-> joepie91: Yeah not sure I even need to do that for a business via DRAFT
<aleph-> Basing this off of a mate who did the same thing
<MichaelRaskin> Maybe not to start but at some later point
<aleph-> Well yeah if I want citizenship ya
<MichaelRaskin> Or residence permit beyond 2–6 years (no idea what's the cutoff)
<ar> eyJhb: they're basically identical, because intel didn't really improve over a couple of years since sandybridge
<eyJhb> ar: it is more because U vs M series, so a lesser CPU that consumes less power
<ar> eyJhb: i thought there were no "U", only "M", series in the sandy/ivy-bridge generation, and they got replaced by "U" later on
<eyJhb> Not sure how the correlate to each other, but I have it hardcoded that I do not like seeing "U" :p
<eyJhb> Is x13 the newest?
<ar> the configuration i ordered my new laptop in: https://arachnist.is-a.cat/c/47eae74252458c8e99fba63385bcea244d65ec0a.png
<joepie91> aleph-: anyway, learned how to bicycle yet? :P
<ar> yup. replacement for the X2** series
<eyJhb> At least we have 4 cores now
cole-h has joined #nixos-chat
<ar> well, this thing has 8 + SMT
<ar> (or will, when it finally arrives…)
<aleph-> joepie91: Course
<aleph-> Been meaning to get a new bike for a while
<eyJhb> ar: somewhat planing to ride with my x230 till it dies :p
<eyJhb> But miss NVMe
<colemickens> aleph-: if you figure out how to get out when no one wants us, lmk, I'm getting desperate.
<aleph-> colemickens: Look at DAFT for NL potentially
<eyJhb> Are you all planning on running away from the US?
<eyJhb> To the non-FREEDOM countries? :p \s
<eyJhb> Can I put a good word in for Denmark as well? It is nice here.
<eyJhb> And we have water that is not a potential flood risk!
<MichaelRaskin> You want to say, you have yet to learn what to do when the water rises above the level of your largest cities?
<samueldr> build a wall!
<eyJhb> And make the water pay for it!
<eyJhb> The city I am in is 5 meters above sealevel :/
<samueldr> something like that, is the non-joke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maeslantkering
<eyJhb> `Amsterdam is about 2 metres (6.6 feet) below sea level.` beat Amsterdam by 7
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: at that point I think there is no Denmark left basically
cjpbirkbeck has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> Maybe "Himmel Bjerget", that is 147 meters above sealevel! Also, himmel bjerget -> sky mountain
<MichaelRaskin> You need to construct additional dams
<samueldr> MichaelRaskin: way ahead of you
<MichaelRaskin> _The_ sky mountain, no less!
<samueldr> what is a dam, if not a specialized wall!
<eyJhb> That is true MichaelRaskin ! :p The one and only
<eyJhb> Must be the tallest of them all I assume
<MichaelRaskin> It is obviously tallest of all the mountains called Bjerg as opposed to Berg
<eyJhb> Did you ever visit it MichaelRaskin ?
<MichaelRaskin> Nope.
<eyJhb> Disappointed.
<joepie91> <eyJhb> And we have water that is not a potential flood risk!
<joepie91> .... yet
<eyJhb> The only thing I really remember from himmel bjerget is the mood rings they sold.
<eyJhb> joepie91: :(
<aleph-> joepie91: Looking at The Hague rn
<eyJhb> How much can the water level actually rise, before NL can't hold it out?
<joepie91> aleph-: do you (intend to) have a car?
<aleph-> Nope
<aleph-> Would I need one?
<aleph-> I generally city living precludes one
<eyJhb> inb4, you need a bike!
<joepie91> aleph-: well, that depends :P
<evanjs> aleph-: depends on the city . Source: a non-metro city dweller lol
<joepie91> aleph-: so a car isn't strictly *necessary* anywhere in NL, probably. but it will be super inconvenient if you live in a town without a train station
<evanjs> ^ me lol
<joepie91> aleph-: I'm asking because there's significant difference in rent prices etc. between large cities and smaller towns
<joepie91> and unlike the US, facilities like shops and supermarkets are available locally everywhere
<evanjs> Like train stations littered around Tokyo metro - yes omg. And I've been to Chicago enough to know that's fine. But where I live? Nah
<joepie91> so if you either have a car or are willing to deal with the inconvenience of not having one, picking a town instead of a bigger city can be a useful option
<evanjs> Town, yes, that's the word. In spite of having "city" in the name lol
rajivr has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<joepie91> aleph-: English proficiency will be *better* in the big cities, but acceptable throughout NL most likely, good enough to make things work
<joepie91> amsterdam, rotterdam, the hague are the three big cities with high rents
tilpner has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<evanjs> And once you need transportation, depending on the climate, 4x4 might be helpful, and then it can be convenient to have cargo space... bah. No wonder people around here tend to prefer more all terrain vehicles
tilpner has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> though probably nothing I personally would invest time in, considering there's no CPU (FPGA used for RISC-V)
cjpbirkb1 has joined #nixos-chat
<aleph-> joepie91: Yeah seems rent is around 900-1100 euro in the hague
<aleph-> Wonder what the small towns are like.
cjpbirkbeck has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<joepie91> aleph-: I live in Rosmalen, a town that's attached to Den Bosch, a mid-sized city in the southern part of NL, which has its own railway station; and I live in a semi-detached for a bit over 1000 EUR a month
<joepie91> with garden and driveway and all that
<aleph-> Interesting.
<joepie91> and that is relatively high; in the somewhat less-desirable towns, the same house is more like 900 EUR/mo
<aleph-> Nod nod
<joepie91> (it's a copy-paste house design :P)
<aleph-> What's home prices like?
<joepie91> like, buying?
tim123123 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<aleph-> Ya
<joepie91> aleph-: dunno, best look at https://www.funda.nl/ :P
<aleph-> Ja Ja
<ashkitten> i'm almost afraid to update my phone now
<ashkitten> because of the potential that simply switching to slot b could brick it
<ashkitten> how can i tell if there's a bootloader in that slot :/
<ashkitten> and why the heck did they ship a phone without a bootloader in one slot!
<ashkitten> i guess the ota mechanism is supposed to put a bootloader in the slot? but the stock ota updater doesn't even work
<joepie91> aleph-: but yeah I'd recommend a place that has a train/metro station at least
<aleph-> Nod, definitely.
<aleph-> Trains are the best
<joepie91> bicycle parking is available at stations
<aleph-> Nice
<joepie91> (basically universally)
<joepie91> likewise, you can take your bike on the train with you outside of peak hours
<joepie91> or, at a decent bunch of stations, day-rent a bicycle upon arrival
<joepie91> aleph-: also 1 sec
* joepie91 looking for a video
<joepie91> aleph-: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk -- this says amsterdam but also applies in the rest of NL
<joepie91> as I understand it, this is very different from urban planning in the US :P
<joepie91> (and it's a major factor in why "living in not-a-big-city without a car" is achievable)
<joepie91> the main thing that becomes harder outside of big cities is the specialized shops
<samueldr> ashkitten: "just" fastboot flash bootloader "that bootloader image" from whatever rom you installed after a blankflash
<samueldr> and yes, it's an OTA mechanism, but it makes me think something's wrong with their bootloader setup
<samueldr> AFAIUI the A/B split should make having a broken bootloader safe
<samueldr> (in a bad OTA)
<samueldr> but it looks like that if the bootloader being flashed from an OTA is wrong, it won't fallback to the other :/
<samueldr> so, I don't know what ROM you ended up putting on there, but the basic gist of it is that you probably want to flash it to both slots
<cole-h> I love programming. Just put the finishing touches on https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/3961 :D
<{^_^}> nix#3961 (by bqv, 3 weeks ago, open): Add a settings option for log-format
<cole-h> bqv++ Thanks for laying the groundwork in that PR :)
<{^_^}> bqv's karma got increased to 29
Armin[m] has joined #nixos-chat
maxdevjs has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<ashkitten> fun thing, it doesn't get stuck in qdl anymore but it doesn't boot slot b either
iqubic has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> progress!
<ashkitten> after basically copying every partition with dd from android :p
<samueldr> yeah, that's another option for writing to the bootloader partition
<ashkitten> it's not just one partition
<samueldr> the silver lining though is that your device is part of the sturdier devices for experimentation purposes I guess
<samueldr> since you can always "blank flash" back
<ashkitten> yeah
<ashkitten> and not even lose my userdata or system :D
<samueldr> so on that device re-partitioning might be a still-bricking, but recoverable thing
<samueldr> oh?
<samueldr> I thought blankflash would have
<ashkitten> apparently not
<samueldr> guh, that means that you "only" have to trigger QDL to get into (unencrypted) user data
<ashkitten> it just flashes the bootloader and sets it back to slot a
<ashkitten> userdata is encrypted
<samueldr> yeah
<ashkitten> i think this phone might just be bust
<samueldr> though you could forcibly flash an unverified firmware from motorola I suppose
<ashkitten> tbh
<samueldr> I guess it all rests on how the bootloader unlock bit is done with that phone
<samueldr> if it's the rpmb of the emmc, I think it should be safe from that, but I'm not sure
<samueldr> ashkitten: bust how?
<ashkitten> idk
<ashkitten> it aint booting
<samueldr> oh
<ashkitten> into slot b
<ashkitten> and idk why
<ashkitten> fastboot says the reason for booting to bootloader was fastboot requested or something
<ashkitten> in getvar all
<ashkitten> maybe i'll try flashing mobile-nixos stage-1 and see if it says anything :p
<samueldr> haha, first do the port :)
<ashkitten> i think i already started on that
<ashkitten> but touchscreen wouldn't work anyway so i got bored and stopped
<ashkitten> oh i could flash the unofficial twrp to that slot's bootloader
<samueldr> boot*; to bootloader would be counter-productive :)
<samueldr> (annoying nomenclature!)
<samueldr> hey, that's a motorola phone, and OEMs are beasts of habits
<samueldr> it's been found out that motorola devices have a "quirk" with touchscreens for a specific generation
<ashkitten> er
<ashkitten> yeah
<samueldr> so it wouldn't surprise me if the same quirk applies
<samueldr> (we might want to move this now-somewhat on-topic discussion to #nixos-aarch64 if it goes much further)
<ashkitten> im not gonna look at this too hard for the moment
<ashkitten> did you know that on the stock rom this phone has never updated itself?
<ashkitten> the ota updater always fails
<ashkitten> maybe that has something to do with it
<samueldr> that sounds not-nice
<drakonis> this is pretty sweet
<drakonis> re: phone talk from about a week or two ago
<drakonis> i might get a mi 9t pro
<drakonis> its cheap now and its a very well supported phone with regards to roms
<drakonis> my first non crap phone
<samueldr> note that it'll have the bootloader unlock process that takes 14 days
<samueldr> and might have some kind of anti-rollback to be wary of
<drakonis> i'm aware, yes.
<samueldr> (depending on what exactly you want to do)
<drakonis> i already have a mi 9 se and i had to deal with a month long wait period
<drakonis> the anti-rollback seems to be non existent on the 9t pro it seems
<drakonis> (on india apparently, but mine isnt from there)
<samueldr> when it seems inexistant, AFAIUI it means it's not buggy
<drakonis> hmm
<samueldr> it's part of all newer xiaomi devices
<drakonis> looks like it isnt
<drakonis> there's varying reports on the matter
<samueldr> what it does is that it prevents someone from flashing a previous versoin of MIUI on the phone
<samueldr> the reason is a good one: security
<drakonis> quite
<drakonis> i'm going to switch out of miui though
<samueldr> if there's a flaw in the previous version, if you can just downgrade it on a found phone, you can do things
<samueldr> yeah, hopefully it's an anti-rollback that's not problematic for that use case
<drakonis> i have a mi 9 se and i dont think i've had any troubles with that while flashing roms
<samueldr> AFAIUI the most problematic use cases reported is for *rooting* and *using MIUI*
<drakonis> it can be disabled it seems
<drakonis> its hilarious, really.
<drakonis> the phone has a way to temporarily disable encryption on the internal storage and disable antirollback
<drakonis> that's some shit
<drakonis> too bad about no ir blaster
<drakonis> that stuff would be so good during the summer
<drakonis> apparently there wasnt room on the phone to fit it in
<drakonis> my phone is free from the scourge of rollback protection
<drakonis> looks like only a few phones have issues with it?
<samueldr> possibly, for the time being :)
<samueldr> it's more of a thing to be aware of than an absolute issue
<samueldr> something you might want to do research on before plunging
<drakonis> there's about 50 roms on xda
<drakonis> if it was an issue, it likely wouldnt have so many roms
<samueldr> and even then, to my understanding the issues are rarely absolute, e.g. ARB sometimes is problematic outright, and sometimes it's problematic only for futzing around with MIUI
<samueldr> not necessarily, it might be that ARB is easy to trigger, but all triggers are well-known
<samueldr> but that the device is easy to port for!
<drakonis> hmm, perhaps
<drakonis> well, i'm stoked to have a phone that doesnt suck!
<drakonis> it was the first one to get a android 11 rom it seems
<samueldr> among xiaomi devices I guess?
<drakonis> no, among every phone
<drakonis> gsi though, but again, its good
<samueldr> I would have thought pixels would have
<drakonis> technically
<drakonis> official releases, pixels got it first
<drakonis> unofficial, it was the first it seems
<drakonis> aosp rom
<drakonis> the only dismaying thing here is that the phone i was going to get, had lcd
<drakonis> i'm not stoked on lcd screens for night usage
<drakonis> huh there's another android 11 rom, people work fast huh
<drakonis> aight, done with this for now
<drakonis> actually, there's something i dont understand, why would someone use miui over other roms?
<samueldr> because they like it?
<drakonis> well, okay.
<samueldr> because they are uneasy around custom roms?
<samueldr> because of the security implications of having an unlocked bootloader?
<cole-h> because they are technologically illiterate and don't even know custom roms exist?
<cole-h> :P
cjpbirkbeck has joined #nixos-chat
cole-h has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
cjpbirkb1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<energizer> isnt miui a custom rom?
<samueldr> at some point there were MIUI custom roms from the community
<samueldr> but strictly speaking, it's xiaomi's fork of android
<energizer> i use whatever comes installed on my phone because it's a just a smartphone, customization takes time and increases fragility without much benefit to me
<energizer> same reason i dont customize the software on my microwave
<andi-> I would totally mod my microwave. I miss the days when they just had a single button.
<infinisil> My microwave asks me for confirmation when turning it off
<samueldr> I am already on record stating I would change the firmware of my microwave, and my washing machine
<energizer> what changes would you make?
<samueldr> for the washing machine: it's buggy as hell
<samueldr> and has annoying "features"
<samueldr> if you forget the top open and do something else, after a too-short delay it cancels the wash, pumping all the water out
<samueldr> now, that's a model where you put the soap in with the clothes
<samueldr> so you get a mess of wet clothes with some soap, so you have to add an unknown amount of soap back in
<samueldr> and also some other weirdness in cycles
<samueldr> the microwave? probably the simplest change: make the beeping go away
<joepie91> am I the only person who doesn't hate their appliances
<samueldr> I have some appliances I quite like
<samueldr> the microwave I don't dislike
<samueldr> but that washing machine is not good
<samueldr> it uses bad skeuomorphism
<joepie91> my only real complaint is that the beep of the washing machine does not need to be so ear-piercingly loud that the people at the other end of the street know my laundry has just finished
<samueldr> tries to present itself as an electro-mechanical one, but actually has inscrutable "smarts"
<joepie91> heh
<joepie91> so you get the worst of electro-mechanical limitations with the worst of electronic unpredictability and modality?
<samueldr> none of the electro-mechanical limitations in fact
<samueldr> because there's nothing of it
<samueldr> only a façade
<samueldr> so a big dial which doesn't actually actuates, it's just a selection
<joepie91> lol./
<samueldr> it's a model that was specifically made to imitate the looks, probably for those people that aren't interested in the fancy new models here
<samueldr> (I wasn't the one who bought it)
<joepie91> yeah my washer does something similar with the selection dial
<joepie91> but it also just has pushbuttons
<energizer> i imagine how many hours i have to put in in order to make it x amount better (without making it worse). always takes like a week to do anything
<joepie91> so it doesn't pretend to be electromechanical really
leah2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<lovesegfault> untold advantages of NixOS: when someone hacks into your box they have no clue what to do
<ivan> haha
leah2 has joined #nixos-chat
<drakonis> energizer: the main reason someone would change the rom on android would be either bumping the android version, feature set, root
<drakonis> i want android 11 on my phone but i dont want to gamble waiting for xiaomi to release the update
<drakonis> plus there's no ads
parsley936 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<drakonis> the UI i can get with custom roms is often superior to that of miui
parsley936 has joined #nixos-chat
<energizer> looks like android 11 has 'scoped storage', which sounds like at least a little bit of app sandboxing
<energizer> ..unlike nixos :\
<drakonis> well
<drakonis> gosh
<drakonis> i wish my roms would use the features available for the newer android releases
<drakonis> the shipping required features that is
<drakonis> you should be happy with linux 5.8
<drakonis> it got the coolest feature for sandboxing
<drakonis> its one feature to allow that anyways
<energizer> does that mean each pid gets its own fs and can't see outside of it?
<drakonis> yes
<drakonis> it means you can have multiple pidfs instances and any changes propagate
<energizer> is there a way for apps to request access to files? like if there's an open-file button
<drakonis> uhhh
<drakonis> a fun question but i dont think so
<drakonis> its been available for exactly
<drakonis> a month
<energizer> hope it gets into nixos soon, would be nice to run apps without them doing whoknowswhat in my filesystem
<drakonis> it'd add an kernel version dependency tho
<drakonis> the most fun thing is that it propagates mounts
<drakonis> woooow there's a command for generating nix docs now
<drakonis> this is the future
<drakonis> while i'm being silly with my reactions, i do think it is useful
<drakonis> wtf
<drakonis> smart mirrors
<drakonis> scifi bathrooms are colliding with reality
abathur has joined #nixos-chat
<abathur> like surveymonkey, but for polls about the relative popularity of CLI syntax variations?
<joepie91> drakonis: magicmirror is neat stuff
parsley936 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]