gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<adisbladis> I also think I tried xonsh way too early
<energizer> in fact, i'd even ask what's the advantage of xonsh over ipython?
<adisbladis> More shell-ish?
<energizer> not convinced that's an advantage :)
<adisbladis> bqv: God damn it.. If you keep shelling Xonsh like this I'm gonna end up investing actual time and effort into it..
<ashkitten> heh, shelling
<abathur> IIRC the point of xonsh is shell semantics like piping and such?
<abathur> (without the shell masochism)
<joepie91> your periodic unrelated reminder that https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2LVhJH_9cT2XKp0VAfsKOQ/videos is a thing that exist
<joepie91> exists*
<energizer> abathur: there's a few of those | < > << <<< that i might want to use, but i'd say the marjority of shell functionality is actually quite hard to understand and ends up having unintended behaviors
<energizer> https://amoffat.github.io/sh/ is easier to understand while retaining consistency with the rest of the language
<abathur> energizer I think the main point is that normal python symantics involve going back in the string frequently to wrap in a function call
<abathur> energizer whereas shell semantics can effectively wrap a call in a post-process by adding to the string and requiring far less sophisticated input navigation
<abathur> *semantics, even
<abathur> I agree it's much less clear to read than normal function wrapping, but I also agree that wrapped calls aren't convenient to compose in a shell (at least as we currently experience them)
<bqv> adisbladis: :D
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<adisbladis> I'm also kind of dreaming of switching to eshell full time
<bqv> as ever, bad idea
<abathur> I guess it might all be more readily fixable with something like browser consoles have
<adisbladis> But the UX is fantastic
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<abathur> blahdeblah_de_blahtyblah = "weird, what sort of monster would define a variable name like this?" <grayed-out>$1</grayed-out>
<abathur> then cat($1) is more plausible
<abathur> if less efficient
<adisbladis> bqv: And I've seen some crazy shit done with eshell that's not really feasible with other shells
<adisbladis> Like, "Ohh, I'll just quickly grab this output, turn it into an org table and suddenly it's a spreadsheet I can do some calculations on"
* energizer thinks this is because shells are relatively underpowered languages
<bqv> oh god
<bqv> i'm not enough of an emacs wizard to do things like that
<bqv> but if i were to attempt, i'd probably just pipe stuff into emacsclient
<bqv> or simple things i can just C-x C-e
<neeasade> > adisbladis: I'm also kind of dreaming of switching to eshell full time
<{^_^}> <LAMBDA>
<bqv> lmao
<neeasade> shell-mode with your prefered shell is also a great experience
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> adisbladis is hereby a lambda
<adisbladis> <3 {^_^}
<{^_^}> {^_^}'s karma got increased to 205.00000000000023
<neeasade> πŸ€”
<joepie91> I'm actually vaguely surprised that that parsed
<adisbladis> joepie91: I'm OK with this
<abathur> heheh
<joepie91> > foo: a'a
<{^_^}> <LAMBDA>
<samueldr> it's just a bunch of identifiers
<samueldr> so in turn a bunch of function calls
<joepie91> oh yeah you can use ' in identifiers in Nix
<samueldr> got to think about it :)
<samueldr> I had to think about it*
<adisbladis> neeasade: shell-mode is pretty terrible imo :/
<bqv> energizer: that's why i'm pleased xonsh takes bash/fish and basically straps it onto python with duct tape
<adisbladis> vterm is good stuff though
<bqv> so anything i can't do in plain shell stuff, i can just outsource to python
<neeasade> vterm's editing sucks
* joepie91 evaluates adisbladis
<bqv> vterm is majestic
<neeasade> I like shell-mode because I get all my editing goodness in my shell experience
<adisbladis> joepie91: I feel violated
* bqv genuine headtilt
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> I was trying to figure out an access control joke here, but brain is not cooperating
<joepie91> something something capability-based language
<joepie91> guess it's time to go to bed
<bqv> neeasade: the thing with emacs is you choose between decent shell experience, with fancy term behaviour, or full emacs experience, with fancy editing behaviour and very broken term apps
<bqv> you can't have both
<bqv> it's awful
<neeasade> bqv: broken term apps are fine -- make switching cheap
<adisbladis> bqv: Don't point out sad realities like that :/
<neeasade> the whole point of emacs is to rid yourself of tui silos
<neeasade> I like that I get one consistent interface with higher primitives than a cursor
<bqv> hm, maybe you're just deeper down the emacs rabbithole than me...
<bqv> (which is honestly impressive)
<adisbladis> bqv: exwm master race!
<bqv> :D
<neeasade> :P
<joepie91> yeup, time to sleep, night all
<energizer> there are more powerful platforms than emacs...
<adisbladis> joepie91: o/
<adisbladis> energizer: I've yet to see one
<energizer> adisbladis: chromium!
<neeasade> energizer: in terms of what you can represent/graphical capabilities? sure
<neeasade> for text, emacs is a nice interface though
<neeasade> imo
<energizer> so is vscode
* adisbladis slaps energizer around a bit with a large trout
<bqv> energizer: chromium and vscode? are you gunning for excommunication or execution?
<energizer> bqv: they're the same product
<neeasade> does vscode have the same notion of repldev/global state that emacs does? the sell for me is that I can tie unrelated things together and get fast feedback
<abathur> that trout emote, though
<abathur> also, how long it took me to decompile emoji => emote
<neeasade> bqv: but anyway, I just try and make it cheap to switch to a real term when I want one -- aliases for "spawn term in $CWD" or alias tui programs to $TERMINAL -c 'command'
<energizer> neeasade: there's tons of information in chrome devtools
<bqv> neeasade: i'd be ok with that if there was still some protection against locking up emacs due to dumping a load of text accidentally
<neeasade> bqv: I have a comint filter that trims things after 2000 lines -- sec
<neeasade> (setq comint-buffer-maximum-size 2000)
<neeasade> (add-hook 'comint-output-filter-functions 'comint-truncate-buffer)
<neeasade> if you limit your text, you won't experience the shell lag
<bqv> i think i have something similar, the problem is when processes are *continuously outputting* craptonnes of text incredibly rapidly
<neeasade> weird -- I don't have those problems
<neeasade> eg on nixos-rebuild
<bqv> like, i accidentally cat massive binary files all the time, or sometimes just cat /dev/urandom for fun
<abathur> he probably means more than that
<adisbladis> I'm curious, is anyone living in vscode the same way I'm living in emacs
<bqv> that will reliably lock up emacs for 10 minutes
<adisbladis> I don't even think it's possible
<neeasade> adisbladis: I if I were to give vscode a drive I would sure try
<neeasade> bqv: r i p
<energizer> adisbladis: nobody is, afaik, but i really think that's just because it's new
<neeasade> I'm going to cat urandom here's hopin 🀞
<bqv> see you tomorrow
<adisbladis> I'm typing this from emacs
<bqv> same
<energizer> i understand, i'm a long-time emacser myself
<bqv> energizer: not because of the difference between elisp and javascript?
<energizer> bqv: imo typescript is easier to use than elisp
<bqv> i mean, one is terrible, the one is a catastrophic mistake
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<bqv> hahahaha
<bqv> guess he did cat urandom
<adisbladis> Which one is which :P
<bqv> left as an exercise for the reader
<adisbladis> At leas neither is a terrible mistake
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<energizer> elisp has pretty poor dev tooling. weak logging/debugging/tracing utilities, no type checking, etc
<abathur> :]
<adisbladis> energizer: You're not wrong :/
<bqv> neeasade: did you have to hard reboot or were you running irc from emacs?
<neeasade> I was running irc from emacs
<bqv> classic
<neeasade> very
<neeasade> wait were we talking in this channel
<bqv> i run weechat outside emacs for that exact reason
<neeasade> I thought we were in lobsters this whole time lmao
<abathur> heh
<bqv> because i know it's reasonably likely i'll crash emacs at any point
<neeasade> nice
<neeasade> I restart emacs once a monthish usually
<bqv> far, farless now that i don't use eshell
<neeasade> nice
<neeasade> there is just one thing I miss from weechat
<neeasade> the buflist
<adisbladis> ERC is the only irc client I've been happy with
<bqv> i quit irc about seven distinct times over the last decade alone, at this point i'm in few enough channels that my mind is my buflist
<neeasade> circe here -- and here's my janky buflist clone that I need to finish in treemacs: https://0x0.st/i9_b.png
<bqv> wait... that's just a file
<bqv> or is that just cheeky ui
<neeasade> what's just a file
<bqv> your irc buffers
<neeasade> that treemacs node is generated from the buffers I have open in circe-channel and circe-server mode
<bqv> ah, so it's just masquerading as a file in treemacs
<adisbladis> #nixos-chat is now #nixos-emacs
<neeasade> treemacs has a nice api, you can define your types
<neeasade> adisbladis: no kidding
<bqv> neat. i added it to my nix conf but i haven't migrated from neotree/speedbar yet
<bqv> not that i use either of those either
<neeasade> yeah I don't use treemacs either, just wanted a buflist-type of thing
<adisbladis> neeasade: How do you find that scaling?
<neeasade> adisbladis: it seems OK with ~30 irc chans open
<adisbladis> I've always felt I have way too many buffers for that to make sense
<neeasade> oh -- well I usually ivy-jump between them
<neeasade> the reason I like the buflist idea is a good visual for channel activity
<adisbladis> Fair enough
<adisbladis> I typically have a few hundred buffers :P
<neeasade> maybe I could make an ivy jump to unread channels and that would be fine
<neeasade> adisbladis: same
<neeasade> but few hundred irc buffers??
<adisbladis> Nah, only 80 atm
<bqv> adisbladis: i think my record is about 600 buffers
<bqv> that started to break emacs, via weechat
<adisbladis> weechat.el ?
<neeasade> I occasionally kill all my open buffers -- recentf makes if feel like everything is open, even if it isn't, so I can shed major mode overhead.
<bqv> yes
<adisbladis> Ah, I gave up on it
<bqv> why? it's reasonable
<bqv> i even fixed the colour parsing
<bqv> ish
<adisbladis> Iirc it deadlocked a lot?
<energizer> how do you avoid killing emacs when tramp gets stuck in uninterruptible sleep?
<adisbladis> I don't really remember
<neeasade> energizer: pkill -SIGUSR2 emacs
<adisbladis> I just think erc has better ux
<bqv> probably similar effect i was seeing, having that many channels results in lots of rendering stops while weechat pushes stuff to buffers
<energizer> neeasade: i'll try it next time
<adisbladis> So now I'm on erc + znc and it's pretty good
<bqv> setting up znc again would just mean i'm connected to 35 irc networks again, that's not somewhere i want to be for a multitude of reasons
<adisbladis> I even went out of my way the other day to improve this even further by making my SSH tunnel socket activated
<neeasade> adisbladis: ooo nice
<neeasade> that's cleaner than mine
<neeasade> which just periodically tries
<neeasade> when there is no connection it will just keep trying.....
<bqv> my weechat-android connects via wireguard-android
<bqv> i'm very happy
<neeasade> adisbladis: ty
<neeasade> is niv's existence awkward with flakes being accepted? or is there less overlap than I perceive atm
<bqv> afaik it becomes pointless to use niv in the wake of flakes, but the rfc being accepted has dubious scope
<adisbladis> Niv is just IFD with tooling support (this is a positive thing imo)
<neeasade> IFD?
<adisbladis> Import from derivation
<neeasade> thanks
<adisbladis> Niv is conceptually very simple
<energizer> is that how you'd describe poetry2nix and naersk as well?
<neeasade> bqv: the registry spec/lack of one?
<adisbladis> energizer: No, poetry2nix is not using any IFD
<energizer> adisbladis: if poetry2nix doesn't need ifd why does niv?
<bqv> neeasade: nah just, what the RFC being accepted even means. tbh ignore that comment, that's an argument i shouldn't have brought back up
<adisbladis> energizer: Because it has to?
<energizer> needs to because it has to? :)
<adisbladis> Niv is taking an external resource and affecting the eval result
<bqv> niv wouldn't make sense without IFD
<neeasade> bqv: kk
<bqv> poetry is just toml parsing, as i understand
<adisbladis> Poetry2nix is parsing a local file
<adisbladis> bqv: Not quite that simple, but essentially yes
<energizer> niv is just json parsing tho, no?
<bqv> you work out the repositories that contain the nix files you want to load, and then what?
<adisbladis> niv is `import (builtins.fromJSON (builtins.readFile (/somefile.json)))`
<bqv> intentionally not import them? :p
<adisbladis> If you think about it, it makes sense
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<ldlework> would be nice to be able to selectively gc specific nix-shells
<energizer> lorri has that built in
<ldlework> cool
<energizer> well, the inverse; it creates gc roots for your shells
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<lovesegfault> infinisil: It'd be nice if this[1] looked like this: { conf ? null, nixpkgs ? import ./nixpkgs }
<cole-h> Maybe prime PR material? ;)
<srk> lovesegfault: nixus.. now I see what you've been talking about :) does it supersede nixoses?
<cole-h> It's the same
<cole-h> Just renamed
<cole-h> Because I kept bothering infinisil about it :P
<srk> aha :D
<srk> cole-h: why!? :D
<srk> cole-h: naming is the hardest :(
<cole-h> Because Nixus was the coolest of the choices, IMO
<{^_^}> Infinisil/nixus#1 (by Infinisil, 19 weeks ago, closed): Name change
<srk> I see, thanks :)
<cole-h> Nixus is a great name because I see it like a nexus of machines
<cole-h> "a connection or series of connections linking two or more things." according to Oxford Languages (aka Google)
<srk> hehe, indeed
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<iqubic> How does jack help me do more complex audio routing stuff?
<srk> iqubic: cole-h: https://nixos.wiki/wiki/JACK
<cole-h> Yeah, I saw that :P Wondering if you did anything different
<srk> I don't remember :(
<srk> my setup was not ideal as I haven't automated the startup
<srk> had to pulseaudio -k to be able to start jack iirc
<iqubic> So, how hard is it to set up JACK?
<srk> not hard at all, enable it, stop pulse or disable its autospawn so you can pulseaudio -k, run qjackctl to start jack
<srk> hardware.pulseaudio.package = pkgs.pulseaudio.override { jackaudioSupport = true; };
<srk> that's not needed iirc if you use pkgs.pulseaudioFull
<iqubic> So, here's the last question I need answered before I make this switch: "Does jack support using a bluetooth device as an output?"
<iqubic> If the answer is no, then I'll need to find something else to use.
<srk> if you run the dual jack/pulse setup you can use pulse for that :)
<iqubic> I see. That sounds hard to set up.
<iqubic> Why doesn't jack support that natively?
<srk> pactl load-module module-jack-sink channels=2; pactl load-module module-jack-source channels=2; pacmd set-default-sink jack_out
<srk> that hooks pulse to jackd
<srk> no idea
<iqubic> Look, I haven't even got jack set up in the first place.
<srk> bluetooth audio is weird, I personally don't like the compression
<iqubic> I don't mind it.
<cole-h> https://i.imgur.com/QoyUAZb.png Only ~4 more days to go.
<srk> :D
<srk> but why?!
<cole-h> I wiped my drive before remembering I had a 400GB windows image I wanted to save
<cole-h> I had run a backup moments before, so no data was lost. But I have to actually copy it over.
<cole-h> So I've been doing that for the past few days :')
<srk> aah :)
<srk> 900kB/s? :D
<cole-h> NTFS + truecrypt + spinning rust + external via USB = sloooowwwwwwwwwwww
<srk> waaaa :D
<cole-h> I had used this drive back when I was still on Windows, so of course there's no other disk format it could really be ;P
<cole-h> And truecrypt because... well, I don't really know. Because it's relatively easy to open (seeing as cryptsetup has support for it) cross-platform?
<srk> I haven't booted windows for like a year now, about to wipe the drive after I grab few videos from it
<cole-h> I play vidya games with my friends a decent amount.
<srk> hope it can do aes-ni :)
<cole-h> Luckily, we're playing Minecraft right now, so I'm not missing out on that much
<srk> was using it to play few old games and learning to edit fpv videos as the drive was 1TB, but now everything works on steam thanks to proton
<srk> funny thing is I've used mostly opensource software on it except games.. like openshot :D
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<cole-h> Hehe
<cole-h> The only real reason I use Windows for gaming (except those few that probably wouldn't work with Proton) is because the mouse sensitivity just feels more natural (after you've got it configured just right).
<cole-h> It's much slower
<srk> hah, I've read this recently somewhere and find it difficult to proc :)
<cole-h> Or maybe it's just familiarity
<cole-h> I have so many hours in CS:GO from my highschool years
<srk> was about to ask if you do much awp flicks
<cole-h> I used to be pretty good at it, if I say so myself :P
<srk> was playing :GO for a while, now playing 1.6 :D
* srk oldskool
<cole-h> Heh
<cole-h> I like playing ranked CSGO with friends because we don't usually try that hard
<srk> getting crushed by kids, love it
<cole-h> Yep
<cole-h> lol
<srk> ranked is certainly cool in GO, played few games
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<srk> now I mostly watch pro scene of :GO, it's quite impressive how much the league progressed
<cole-h> I used to watch. And then I stopped :P
<cole-h> The people involved are truly talented though
<srk> kennyS <3 :D
<cole-h> GeT_RiGhT <3
<cole-h> Though kenny is probably the greatest awper
<cole-h> Up there with s1mple and guardian
<cole-h> (but definitely first place0
<srk> yep
<cole-h> )
<cole-h> Man, you're making me want to watch this stuff again :P
<srk> s1mple owns too hard sometimes, not even fair :D
<srk> GuardiaN is pretty good and born in my homeworld
<srk> dota2 pro scene is quite fun as well :D
<cole-h> "homeworld" hah
<cole-h> Watching MOBAs is a guilty pleasure, but I truly hate playing them :D
<srk> same! too much haters and try-hards who flame when you do mistakes which ruins the game too often
<cole-h> ...and the fact that I just suck at it x)
<cole-h> Too much clicking
<srk> indeed, some mechanics are quite useless .. like last hitting
<srk> feels like something to fill the void .. :D
<cole-h> That's what I'm really the worst at
<cole-h> My CS might as well be negative :D
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<energizer> https://github.com/bmc0/dsp what's the name of the audio effect that lowers the frequency?
<srk> downsampling?
<srk> looks like dsp has resample
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<iqubic> TIL: JACK stands for "JACK Audio Connection Kit"
<cole-h> Recursive acronyms are fun
<iqubic> GNU's Not Unix
<energizer> srk: thanks
<iqubic> I've made a decision. I want to use Jack and Pulse in tandem, if possible.
<iqubic> Is that possible?
<iqubic> And if so, how do I do it?
<srk> start with the wiki page
<iqubic> That seems suspiciously easy.
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<ashkitten> lotta things on nixos are suspiciously easy
<makefu> ashkitten: as people said many years ago: with nixos you trade one problem category for another. some things become incredibly easy, however you now have problems you never thought about before that this could ever be an issue
<ashkitten> yeah
<ashkitten> but then again, once you solve it you never have to again
<cole-h> ...Unless you forget to commit your solution and run into it when you reinstall a year later
<cole-h> x)
<adisbladis> cole-h: Do you have uncommited state?!
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<cole-h> uhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooo
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<adisbladis> Conspicuous answer
<cole-h> No clue what you're talking about
<adisbladis> Nothing to see here, move along
<cole-h> Definitely didn't just push all my dirty state
<eyJhb> adisbladis: DO YOU EVER SLEEP DAMN IT :p
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<cole-h> Only when you're not looking
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Sometimes?
<eyJhb> What timezone are you in?
<eyJhb> From my perspective you have just been up all night :p
<eyJhb> also, srhb the insurance is valid and active! :D Now I can drive around all I want! >:)
<eyJhb> adisbladis: there are sooo many files... e.g. Pulseaudio stuff on reboots
<sphalerite> ldlework: nix-store --delete
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<eyJhb> samueldr: no audio when playing using mplayer, do you use youtube-dl as well?
<eyJhb> E.g. mplayer $(youtube-dl -g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNo7qoLRtkQ)
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<srhb> eyJhb: Joyriding is illegal!
<eyJhb> srhb: My top speed is 160, so... Not fun in my car. But I will be enjoyriding my car all the way!
<eyJhb> With my sketchy self changed breaks (that do work!)
<srhb> :P
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<eyJhb> I did however have a scare on the highway srhb. I felt that my car started to "shake" waaay too much, and I hadn't tightened the nuts a second time. So I had to pull over, find out that the decorative caps on my nuts are hard as hell to get off then go to T-Hansen, buy a tool I have at home and tighten the nuts then. Luckily there wasn't anything wrong
<eyJhb> But better safe than dead :p
<srhb> Cars are terrifying.
<eyJhb> They are... Do you have one srhb ?
<srhb> I do not, nor a license.
<talyz> adisbladis: Uncommited is my default state
<etu> uncommited to anything is a great state of mind?
<etu> :p
<adisbladis> talyz: <3
<eyJhb> srhb: that seems like it is a normal thing in CPH, most in Jylland can't live without it :|
<adisbladis> Today is one of those days I wish I was completely uncommited :/
<etu> I will uncommit from work soon
<eyJhb> adisbladis: draw the get free card ;)
<etu> halfday <3
<srhb> eyJhb: Yeah, when I lived in Jutland most people were horrified that I didn't have one.
<srhb> eyJhb: I actually started taking one back then.
<eyJhb> etu: I wish I could have those days. Only two years left...
<eyJhb> srhb: STarted?
<eyJhb> Then what?
<etu> eyJhb: I work 80% now, it's great. Especially since I have 96% salary :py
<etu> -y
<srhb> eyJhb: I missed the same full stop sign on the same road a couple of times and my teacher threw a snide comment at me. Decided I don't have the attention span for driving :P
<etu> eyJhb: It will be worse when it goes the other directon though, work 20% more for 4% more money lol
<talyz> adisbladis: I feel ya :/
<talyz> etu: ooh, nice
<talyz> I wish we had halfdays, like, ever..
<etu> talyz: I work 7 hours (mon-thu) and 4 hours on fridays.
<etu> It's pretty great
<FireFly> Nice
<eyJhb> talyz: study?
<talyz> yeah
<eyJhb> srhb: But then who am I going to race with? But makes sense.. But tbh. you learn to drive after
<talyz> unfortunate for me that the company is still doing great :p
<etu> talyz: haha :D
<eyJhb> Maybe some day you will take the your license, and join the good side!
<srk> eyJhb: forgot /s :)
<etu> talyz: We have more traffic than over, but no ads to drive money :p
<eyJhb> srk: ? :p
<eyJhb> For the race part?
<eyJhb> talyz: 5 years left of education then?
<etu> cars are pretty handy though, I have plenty of use for mine
<srk> eyJhb: for the good side :D
<eyJhb> srk: Jylland is the good site! That I use Displaylink, not that good. Btw. did you hear I fixed the monitor?
<eyJhb> Same for me etu , use it everyday
<srk> eyJhb: yup, good job! :)
<talyz> eyJhb: studying is definitely more stressful than my current work.. not a worthwhile trade-off :p
<etu> eyJhb: I've sold my local traffic card to a neighbour :D
<etu> It has 6 months left and I haven't used it for 2 months
<eyJhb> But I was lazy with the old monitors, and threw out everything except the LCD...
<eyJhb> talyz: yup, it is no fun and basically no holliday. I have a exam in August I think...
<talyz> etu: congrats :D
<talyz> eyJhb: oh, ouch :/
<etu> talyz: They will pay me per month, so they will save like 150sek/month and I won't have that drain of cash every month. I call that win-win.
<talyz> etu: yep, that sounds great :)
<eyJhb> But only two years left! Unless I want a PhD
<eyJhb> I feel violated by this - https://youtu.be/CyT4-IfTpy0 . I never got the hang on making curly brackets, so now a child is saying I am new a maths :( Damn it
<MichaelRaskin> Ahaha, I wonder what would they say about the curly braces actually drawn by people not new at maths
<eyJhb> I think they call us idots. But most of everything I do looks.. Like a child drew it
<MichaelRaskin> People not new at maths _can_ typically draw a proper curly brace, but often skip it for a faster-to-draw version
<eyJhb> Like writing Zeta... Or Xi. That sucks as well
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<eyJhb> Lets just say I do that, mine is a lot faster!
* eyJhb *scribles unreadable stuff*
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<MichaelRaskin> Come on, Xi is easy. Of course, xi (lowercase) is a bit harder
<MichaelRaskin> In many areas reliably distinguishable xi and zeta are a must, including probabilistic areas (and therefore in algorithmics it is useful to have this skill so you can reproduce a proof sketch that your probabilistic algorithm works…)
<eyJhb> https://youtu.be/mAFMJ1LnQu8?t=146 NixOS fame at the top
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: Well it is in most cases, and also here (probability), but my handwriting is so bad. I should practice it..
<bqv> Was reading a list of oldest companies, one of them is "sudo honke" …
<bqv> Guess you need to be root to honk
<julm> "Founded in 1141 and run by the 55th generation of the Sudo family"
<adisbladis> julm: That's a powerful family
<julm> ^_^
<bqv> Lol
<julm> at last, a system where you can successfully run: sudo make me a sake
<julm> though, I'd prefer sudo make me a sandwich https://xkcd.com/149/
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<julm> that would also make a great name for a noble family in France before the French Revolution of 1789-93, when they still had privileges
<julm> of course we should have waited until the introduction of sudo(1) circa 1980 to appreciate the irony
<julm> so, sudo is indeed one of the oldest. PolicyKit was born ~3 decades later, in 2006: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2006-March/004770.html
<julm> "I kinda don't like to take this task upon me but I don't see any other way to solve these problems in a sane way. Flames and suggestions welcome :-). /me puts on burn-proof pants. David"
<julm> huhu
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<bqv> neeasade: ok you're not in #nixos-emacs so i'll turn this into an emacs channel again: your ideology of total assimilation of all activity into emacs intrigues me, but how do you get past that being a complete pain in the ass? like, when you have a new action, is your first thought really to make an elisp wrapper for it?
<talyz> oh, there's a #nixos-emacs? :o
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<Taneb> gchristensen: enjoyed your talk, thank you
<eyJhb> Something to watch while setting up mail
<risson> gchristensen: same here, thanks!
<joepie91> did something change in NixOS 20.03 that might have broken my Git + GPG setup?
<joepie91> aha, I think it's this one
<joepie91> " GnuPG is now built without support for a graphical passphrase entry by default. Please enable the gpg-agent user service via the NixOS option programs.gnupg.agent.enable. Note that upstream recommends using gpg-agent and will spawn a gpg-agent on the first invocation of GnuPG anyway. "
<joepie91> hm, or not
<adisbladis> talyz: I thought I told you? :O
<adisbladis> I'm outsourcing some research!
<adisbladis> Which language ecosystems do we have in nixpkgs?
<gchristensen> once resholved merges, bash
<adisbladis> Of course we have a bunch in pkgs/development
<adisbladis> But what else
<gchristensen> we've got some ruby packages and python packages and perl packages
<adisbladis> I had the idea to just run filelight on the tree
<lovesegfault> infinisil: sorry for the issue spam last night :P
<lovesegfault> I tried to use nixus to deploy all my boxes and wanted to document the snags
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<infinisil> lovesegfault: No problem, I appreciate it :D
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<eyJhb> Anyone here that uses Bitlbee with Facebook?
<gchristensen> https://twitter.com/tweagio/status/1266390406389956608 I can't believe I got the new website announcement to be this
<lovesegfault> infinisil: Regarding the ctrl+c issue: I'd be really sad to see nixus use Haskell as that would create a dep on GHC and the rest of the Haskell ecosystem which IME breaks often on nixpkgs
<lovesegfault> Haskell pkgs are always a bit of a headache to use πŸ˜…
<bqv> i love it when I, as a racial minority, get accused of being racist by white people
<bqv> it's a good thing i'd already involved the police in this debacle, it's gonna be a spicy week
<eyJhb> bqv: DRAMA
<eyJhb> Give the details
<eyJhb> Like, just did you find out who it was? And what it was?
<infinisil> lovesegfault: I'm using a pinned nixpkgs version for nixus, users wouldn't have to worry about it, would just be an internal implementation detail
<bqv> made a noise complaint about a random extremely loud noise i hear intermittently, but couldn't work out for certain where it was from so the council said they didn't care. asked around the neighbourhood to figure out where it was from, people either didn't even notice it or directed me at the ventilation above two nearby shops/restaurants. asked another neighbour just now, he said with good
<bqv> confidence that it's one of those two, so I paid them a courtesy visit before I pointed the council and police at them. their response was to start shouting at me, accuse me and everyone i'd cited of racism, dismiss my concerns because i'm a tenant and not a landowner, and mock me for involving the council and police
<infinisil> Well I guess you couldn't write your own bash deploy phases then
<bqv> i'm quite sure it's them now, and this has turned into slander and harassment
<gchristensen> bqv: yikes
<slack1256> infinisil: What is nixus? can you give me a link where I can read more?
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<infinisil> slack1256: My WIP deployment solution: https://github.com/Infinisil/nixus
<slack1256> Cool, will check out.
<gchristensen> abathur: found a little bug in resholved
<abathur> :]
<gchristensen> alias docker=podman neither substituse the path for podman, nor complains about docker being nothing
<abathur> hmm
<abathur> I guess it's more of a riddle :)
<abathur> it does track the alias, and should exempt it (i.e., it shouldn't throw a fit about the unknown docker identifier?)
<samueldr> eyJhb: mpv, not mplay
<samueldr> er*
<abathur> but it isn't trying to understand the alias well enough to resolve through it
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> I *think* aliases can be rewritten alias FOO=BAR in to FOO() { BAR "$@"; }
<abathur> kinda, but `alias blah='echo oh'; blah gosh dangit` == "oh gosh dangit", and `alias blah='echo $OH'; export OH=hehe; blah gosh dangit` == "hehe gosh dangit"
<gchristensen> rough
<abathur> so to translate the alias with certainty resholved has to tiptoe over the line into understanding its internal structure, or calve off the simplest set of aliases to handle and ignore the rest; the latter may tractable though
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<abathur> it would be more consistent with how it handles other things if it did okay with alias=<identifier>, at least; I'll add a TODO to the code there
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<abathur> heheh, it's like I've been here before: # TODO: not sure this is the right thing to store here. Could be a set? Could save the expansion?
<abathur> question I guess
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<abathur> are you thinking the alias definition should get rewritten, or uses of it?
<abathur> the former seems safer for a script, since the alias could get written in more than one place--but I'm not sure how to reason about it since sometimes aliases are for an interactive user in which case it'd probably be disruptive if their aliases were getting nailed down on build and then pointing to stale executables unless they re-source the script that added them?
<abathur> could maybe add a ~script/interactive flag to distinguish that behavior, or maybe have different allow parameters for each behavior and just make the user put them in the correct bin?
<infinisil> lovesegfault: For https://github.com/Infinisil/nixus/issues/4, what's the value of the attribute path config.nodes.<node>.configuration._pkgs.stdenv.hostPlatform.system?
<{^_^}> Infinisil/nixus#4 (by lovesegfault, 12 hours ago, open): Support nodes with different architectures
<colemickens> so uh, anyone got any cool new friday projects? not that I need a distraction or anything
<lovesegfault> infinisil: one moment
<energizer> infinisil: is nixus intended as an alternative to nixops?
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<lovesegfault> infinisil: "aarch64-linux"
<ldlework> The discussion on Styx 0.8 is lively and I invite anyone who's interested to read through the discussion and leave your feedback: https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/1f327beccc6f1c9dcf872a7c293ef4bb
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<infinisil> energizer: Yeah
<ldlework> infinisil: will nixus be flake compatible
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<ashkitten> why do games on linux never support controller hotplugging?
<ashkitten> i've never not had to restart a game after plugging in a controller
<ashkitten> apparently it's only an issue sometimes on windows, but even games that support hotplugging on windows never support it on linux
<cole-h> Maybe it's not the game's fault, but something in the Linux stack?
<infinisil> ldlework: Seems like a good thing to support, so sure, why not :)
<ldlework> cole-h: don't be ridiculous
<ashkitten> the only thing that actually detects new controllers plugged in is dolphin
<ldlework> i keep meaning to setup dolphin for nix, but never get around to it
<bqv> infinisil: <3
<bqv> infinisil: happy to be a test case
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<ashkitten> i wish xpad could "reserve" controller slots so when you plug in a controller it takes over the dummy controller
<bqv> Also I support your haskell wishes
<samueldr> I believe a surprisingly large amount of linux games end up relying on SDL2 for OpenGL context and things like joystick
<samueldr> and I think it's an issue with SDL2
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<infinisil> lovesegfault: Just created #nixus, let's go there to debug
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<energizer> infinisil: what advantages will it have over nixops, given https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/1245/ ?
<infinisil> Hm, I guess for now the secret handling is quite nice in nixus (not explained in the readme), and multi-host abstraction modules currently aren't possible in nixops either (though I heard talk about using the module system for nixops too)
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<infinisil> But also, it's just a relatively open playground I can use to add whatever cool features I want, without having to keep compatibility
<infinisil> I put some notes in here for what I wish to have: https://github.com/Infinisil/nixus/blob/master/notes.md
<ldlework> dat ambition
<samueldr> "without having to keep compatibility" sounds like a reason not to use it :/ maybe find a better way to say that intention :)
<samueldr> (did you mean stay compatible with nixops, or move things and break fast the nixus backwards compat?)
<ldlework> i interpreted it as both
<ldlework> as in "free to find the best version of nixus"
<samueldr> inclusive or is a valid answer
<infinisil> samueldr: nixus is very WIP, so the latter
<infinisil> I don't encourage anybody to use it (yet)
<infinisil> It's really just experimental at this point
<infinisil> Eventually of course backwards compat should be a thing
<samueldr> :)
<samueldr> btw, I don't think it is an issue in itself, as long as it's correctly stated
<energizer> experiments are good
<infinisil> energizer: Oh another thing I really like about nixus is that you don't need to install anything to run deploys
<infinisil> (other than Nix)
<infinisil> Deploying is currently done with just `$(nix-build)` (building the deployment script and running it)
<Valodim> ldlework: tried out styx just now, from 20.03. one of its internal files tries to reference nixpkgs.caddy.bin, which has not existed in a while. that a known issue?
<{^_^}> styx-static/styx#42 (by ldeck, 5 weeks ago, closed): styx QuickStart failing
<lovesegfault> infinisil: headed there
<sphalerite> ashkitten: supertuxkart supports controller hotplugging on master :p
<ashkitten> lol
<sphalerite> samueldr: SDL2 does support controller hotplugging, it's what supertuxkart introduced in order to be able to support it itself
<samueldr> my info is either outdated or wrong
<samueldr> though it wouldn't surprise me if it's in-between, using older SDL2 releases
<sphalerite> also possible ^^
<eyJhb> Ahh, makes sense samueldr , thanks
<samueldr> eyJhb: it's possible that mplayer, using youtube-dl, selected a video-only format though
<samueldr> youtube started (years and years ago) to serve video split from audio
<samueldr> and tbf, I don't use raw mpv, but a wrapper (sorry, won't share, it's horrible) that selects a maximum resolution to the video
<gchristensen> I want this to exist: https://twitter.com/grhmc/status/1266465994031214593
<ldlework> heh
<eyJhb> samueldr: christ, it uses almost the same amount of CPU
<samueldr> eyJhb: huh?
<eyJhb> I would have thought mpv would use less CPU/GPU than the browser
<samueldr> depends how it's decoding
<samueldr> and how the browser is
<samueldr> also depends on the codec and format being used
<samueldr> my laptop has trouble with *some* 1080p videos and drops frames in large changes
<samueldr> though I don't know if it's configured right
<samueldr> my desktop doesn't
<samueldr> (both i5-4xxx funnily enough)
<sphalerite> huh, mpv is much much better than firefox for me
<cole-h> gchristensen: πŸ‘€
<ldlework> <ssbr_> literally every channel I look at is all nix nix nix right now
<ldlework> lol
<samueldr> let's spend the next hour not talking about nix!
<samueldr> (here)
<samueldr> let's prove 'em wrong
<ldlework> i don't mind talking about nix
<energizer> so what's happening with genode
<sphalerite> anybody want to play supertuxkart?
<samueldr> is something happening or scheduled to happen?
<sphalerite> it supports controller hotplugging!
<sphalerite> (if you use an unreleased version *cough*)
<energizer> samueldr: im noticing https://git.sr.ht/~ehmry/genodepkgs
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<iqubic> Setting up JACK with pulseaudio, on NIXOS is confusing me.
<iqubic> I'm looking at the wiki, and getting lost.
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<abathur> iqubic: getting my audio to work and keeping it there was one of the more frustrating things I've ever experienced
<abathur> I never touch it now; I'm afraid of breaking it
<abathur> my volume controls don't work, but I'd rather not break it so I don't touch it :]
<iqubic> I would use this set of steps, but I don't know which set of steps to follow: https://nixos.wiki/wiki/JACK
<abathur> IIRC I think I threw everything except alsa out of my audio stack in frustration at one point
<iqubic> Do I use the JACK module, or do I use the steps listed 1 2 3?
<iqubic> Like should I start by loading the sequencer modules and stuff?
<joepie91> JACK with Pulseaudio has historically been a pretty good way to spend a rainy saturday afternoon
<joepie91> (on other distros also)
<abathur> iqubic: also worth checking in #nixos
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<energizer> joepie91: by that do you mean it's actually good, or it takes forever?
<joepie91> energizer: the latter :P
<energizer> :)
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<sphalerite> huh, IPv6 seems to be about 5ms faster than IPv4 for reaching the same Hetzner server from my home internet connection. It seems to take a much longer route for v4
<sphalerite> go IPv6!
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<gchristensen> huzzah!
<gchristensen> sphalerite: one nice way to "encourage" customers to move away from a service you want to shut down is to make it slower
<gchristensen> let's do the same for ipv4 :)
<samueldr> and cut people off that can't do otherwise?
<samueldr> it annoys me to no end how badly screwed up adoption is broken
<samueldr> I can't use ipv6 because someone that I have no business with forbids someone else to provide the service
<gchristensen> yeah, not cut off -- but to make slow. and it only works if you do it in ways the decision maker cares about
<samueldr> it won't, those decision makers will love it
<samueldr> it's the big ISP that is forced to lease to smaller ISPs
<gchristensen> sorry?
<samueldr> they do everything in the power to make the service worse for users of their infra that is not actually their customers
<gchristensen> ah
<samueldr> it's terrible all around
<gchristensen> right, well, it isn't a good idea then :P
<samueldr> yeah :(
<samueldr> I want ipv6, but everything around adoption is terrible, I've been hearing that globally it's been going backwards even
<gchristensen> since corona?
<samueldr> no idea
<samueldr> I saw someone gripe about that but didn't dig deeper
<energizer> "The world in which IPv6 was a good design" https://apenwarr.ca/log/20170810
<samueldr> and the worst part about all that, the only solution to get ipv6 is to go with those big oligopolistic ISPs rather than the small ones
<gchristensen> scum
<samueldr> canadian people: vote for the parties that want to nationalize the telco infrastructure
<samueldr> (well, global people too, but I don't know the state)
<samueldr> it should be a utility like water and electricity, in my province those are not private entities
<samueldr> the *infrastructure* I mean
<samueldr> it especially hurts when you think how much in the past, the governements paid so those businesses reach everyone
<samueldr> just validating what the state with the ISP is, since 2012 it's been "it's coming, but no ETA"