<colemickens>
So, I love my partner and a good distraction, so I have been helping a bunch of Switch/amiibo fans emulate amiibos... but I've had to guide them using Ubuntu or Debian VMs. Goodness, I don't miss it.
<colemickens>
(And found a misconfiguration on their live disk?)
<colemickens>
somehow `python3-pip` won't install for just one of them. :/
<gchristensen>
ouch
<colemickens>
esp since I did 90% of the work to write the nix derivation
<colemickens>
I could've had a nixos image ready-to-go but I ran into an issue getting some patching around libusb/libhid working with a new python hid library I had to add...
<evelyn>
are the amiibos more complicated than just an NFC token underneath a figurine?
<cole-h>
tfw you get zalgo text in Firefox's about:support
<cole-h>
Is my browser possessed?
<colemickens>
evelyn: I am not an expert, but I don't think so?
<colemickens>
evelyn: they have to be nfc215 which are usually write-once
<colemickens>
evelyn: and they're seemingly not available from US-shippers right now, or at least not without insane markup
<colemickens>
but the controller is BT and emulatable, and thus the amiibo payloads are as well
<evelyn>
I remember when they first came out price-gougers would buy up all the stock and sell them at inflated prices. I only wanted marth from fire emblem and it was impossible to get.
<evelyn>
but it was really expensive at the RRP too
<samueldr>
to be emulated, you need to clone an amiibo, AFAIUI
<samueldr>
though if you have the data, you can write your own tag
<evelyn>
upon being disappointed the first time I just decided this was not a hobby I wanted to collect for
<colemickens>
samueldr: there is of course a vbulletin-powered, ad-laden, buggy, unorganized site where you can download what are, I'm sure, conveniently located personal backups
<samueldr>
:)
<evelyn>
reminds me of the various posts on stack exchange asking how to play SACD ISOs their 'friend from Russia' sends them
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<colemickens>
wow. gmail tells me I had blocked notifications@github.com
<colemickens>
I unblocked. I move all mail from that addrses to my inbox.
<colemickens>
my GH emails still say "this mail is marked as spam" so yippee
<colemickens>
okay, the last bit might've just been a client-side cache issue
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<eyJhb>
Anyone have experience joining a teams meeting, when you only have the link?
<eyJhb>
Following it using browser and xdg-open won't work
<srhb>
eyJhb: Maybe teams is nice and responds correctly if you feed it as the first argument to the command?
<srhb>
I have no experience with it.
<eyJhb>
It doen't even have a --help :(
<eyJhb>
Just hope my teacher will do what I told her. Else it will be a quick exam
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<eyJhb>
srhb: Think I passed
<eyJhb>
:D
<eyJhb>
I think**
<srhb>
Good job ^^
<sphalerite>
dtz: is allvm.org supposed to be down?
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<eyJhb>
srhb: I did pass, finally
<eyJhb>
Thanks! :D
<eyJhb>
If a API accepts a `n` parameter, which specefies number of entries to return. Then what would you expect `n=-1` to return?
<eyJhb>
__monty__ I know you want to pitch in here
<__monty__>
Heh, I was considering it.
<__monty__>
Unix custom would probably use negative integers as a way to pass positive ints but treated differently. Like returning the nth result, rather than n results.
<__monty__>
Math might have a weird answer. Like with factorials and the gamma function.
<eyJhb>
I would somewhat expect it to return all results, saying (give me as many as you can)
<__monty__>
Imo you should adhere to the Law of Demeter though. Go with what's least surprising.
<Taneb>
eyJhb: n results, but from the back, is something I've seen
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<eyJhb>
That makes sense as well to do what you have said ( __monty__ & Taneb ), I would however expect the other thing. Just wondering if the option should just be invalid?
<Taneb>
That's certainly also an option
<Taneb>
I definitely wouldn't expect it to return all results
<__monty__>
That is pretty useful if there's no way to predict how many results there could be though.
<__monty__>
A sum type might be nicer but not always available.
<eyJhb>
Well, in this case it is tags in a docker registry for a image
<eyJhb>
But in the next PR, it is all the images in a registry (think docker hub), in which case the server will not allow it
<sphalerite>
eyJhb: +1 for invalid
<sphalerite>
this is a HTTP API, not machine code. Integers are cheap enough that you really don't need to overload them.
<talyz>
eyJhb: I would expect 0 to return all entries when returning no entries makes no sense, and -1 to either be invalid or return n entries from the back if they're ordered
<talyz>
eyJhb: Depends on how the api looks and what's useful, though :)
<eyJhb>
Hmm, so this is going to happen, n<0 will return invalid, n=0 will return 0 entries without a link to the next page, n>0 will return n entries with a link to the next page
<eyJhb>
That seems to be the most obivious here
<sphalerite>
0 returning no entries ♥
<sphalerite>
talyz: I think 0 shouldn't return all entries, either no n parameter at all or maybe n="all"
<eyJhb>
And, there is a last param, if this is specified without n, then at least I would expect it to use default n set by the server
<talyz>
sphalerite: Yeah, I agree - I was thinking of a case where n was required and had to be an integer..
<eyJhb>
What do you guys use for pinetry?
<eyJhb>
20.03 has borked the default way it set itself
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<sphalerite>
eyJhb: the default with programs.gnupg.agent.enable
<eyJhb>
Hmm, now I use gtk2 I guess :\ Will try to remove later
<adisbladis>
I use the Qt one
<adisbladis>
Works fine
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<gchristensen>
adisbladis: autoplay took me to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qchPLaiKocI and it is a serious shame we lost this undeniably provably most optimal music video style
<adisbladis>
gchristensen: Same :D
<adisbladis>
I'm listening to it right now
<adisbladis>
I have a feeling today is gonna be a funky day
<adisbladis>
gchristensen: Looks like your early wayland video sharing ;)
<gchristensen>
:D
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<emily>
eyJhb: you should use an unsigned/natural numbers type so you can't pass -1 :
<emily>
:p
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<eyJhb>
emily: hard when it is a HTTP Rest API :p
<qyliss>
REST doesn't say anything about how you represent data!
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<cole-h>
I'm trying out my dad's old Microsoft Trackball Explorer for the day. This'll be interesting.
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<emily>
trackballs are great
<cole-h>
Gonna be strange getting used to it. I keep clicking the back and forward buttons when trying to LMB lol
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<jtojnar>
does `git send-mail` store the changes I did in `--annotate` somewhere when it fails?
<qyliss>
jtojnar: is there anything in .git?
<qyliss>
Probably starting with .gitsendemail.msg
<jtojnar>
qyliss: only COMMIT_EDITMSG
<jtojnar>
which contains the original message
<qyliss>
Did you run git send-email in a git repository?
<jtojnar>
yes
<qyliss>
Then I think it's gone
<jtojnar>
☹︎
<qyliss>
git send-email looks like it creates a file in .git/.gitsendemail.msg.XXXXXX (where XXXXXX is a template for tempfile name)
<qyliss>
jtojnar: you definitely checked for hidden files in .git, e.g. with ls -a, right?
<jtojnar>
yup
<qyliss>
nowhere else it could be then, I think
<qyliss>
you may want to consider doing git format-patch, doing your edits, and then running git send-email with the patch files
<qyliss>
(Not that that helps you this time)
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<jtojnar>
running the send-mail again, it edits the patch in mktemp -d, which it must have cleared
<qyliss>
We're talking about the same program, right?
<qyliss>
git send-email?
<qyliss>
With an e?
<jtojnar>
yup, sorry
<qyliss>
So you're saying it doe it in a temporary directory?
<qyliss>
That surprises me, because it doesn't look like it from the source
<ldlework>
jtojnar: wtf, did you paste an arbitrary matrix code into IRC?
<ldlework>
emily: do you have a nice uncomplicated example?
<jtojnar>
only the cover letter gets stored in `.gitsendemail`
<emily>
ldlework: not really :/ signal-desktop and discord both look mildly gnarly
<ldlework>
yeah a big problem here is that i am mostly out of my element
<emily>
I guess they're both binary-based too
<ldlework>
emily: Sabaki produces a "binary" too.
<ldlework>
Which is why if I just node2nix it, then build, I get "cannot find bash" etc.
<srk>
jtojnar: you can also git format-patch --cover-letter and it will gen one more patch you can edit
<joepie91>
I often run Electron stuff by literally just installing Electron or loading it into an env, and then doing `electron /path/to/cloned/git/repo`
<cole-h>
ldlework: You could use the grossness that is^W^W^W^W appimage stuff :D
<ldlework>
I feel like since I can get Sabaki to build using node2nix, that someone not as neophyte as myself could probably understand how to run the patch-y things on it's output.
<qyliss>
I was looking at the code for --compose
<emily>
ldlework: riot-desktop works from source
<emily>
not the simplest example though
<jtojnar>
qyliss: should I report it upstream?
<emily>
(I'm just doing rg '\belectron' to find stuff)
<qyliss>
jtojnar: I've always found the git ML to be pretty friendly
<MichaelRaskin>
ldlework: you could try just finding all files with /bin/bash line and mass-replacing it with the full path to bash, if you believe the mess is not that bad
<qyliss>
And given how likely it is that somebody will have mail not configured right at some point, it'd be a sensible thing for them to add
<emily>
someone should make an electron.js that brings things full circle and lets you run electron apps on the web
<emily>
(with stubbed out functionality, ofc)
<emily>
you could even support native code these days :p
<emily>
ldlework: sure, I can take a look
<emily>
ldlework: but it's likely you want to patch things before building rather than after
<emily>
I have no experience with the nixpkgs node ecosystem though, so the build itself is a mystery to me
<MichaelRaskin>
Electron does have APIs that are even more permissive than what Chromium gives to Google web apps
<emily>
making a prePatch with what MichaelRaskin said is basically the approach I'd try
<MichaelRaskin>
emily++ on patching source, not the build result
<{^_^}>
emily's karma got increased to 19.00000000000000004
<emily>
MichaelRaskin: sure, but you shouldn't need any of those to work with Go game record files, hopefully
<emily>
maybe electron encourages too much bad stuff and there's no way you can shim it, I dunno, but it sure would be nice
<joepie91>
<emily> someone should make an electron.js that brings things full circle and lets you run electron apps on the web
<MichaelRaskin>
emily: the part about _files_ might be a pain, though
<emily>
you can "always" just emulate OS functionality, worst case, it's not like the browser doesn't have much of it already...
<joepie91>
Browserify has functionally been doing this for years :P
<joepie91>
that is, making Node code run in browsers
<ldlework>
emily: ^
<joepie91>
it might actually predate Electron?
<emily>
MichaelRaskin: yeah. I don't know how flexible browser file APIs are these days, but you can easily imagine having a fake filesystem backed by one of the numerous rich web storage APIs, and then functionality to "upload/download" local files from/into it
<joepie91>
<{^_^}> emily's karma got increased to 19.00000000000000004
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: could it please predate Electron and eat it completely?
<emily>
joepie91: I think the packing is less the problem than the electron APIs
<ldlework>
I emailed them and they said they were not able to get it to actually run
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: hm? Browserify doesn't replace Electron
<ldlework>
But it looks like they made some attempt at getting the patching to work.
<joepie91>
emily: the Electron APIs are super limited though. basically just window management, for the most part the stuff that's irrelevant and not emulatable in a browser
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: which is a problem!
<emily>
ldlework: so, you probably want to use the electron in nixpkgs
<emily>
rather than whatever one from npm this fetches
<joepie91>
I'm sure someone somewhere has made a shim for it
<joepie91>
that tries its best
<emily>
you can call the electron binary on a path like people have suggested, or link the binary like some derivations do
<{^_^}>
#46382 (by boomshroom, 1 year ago, open): Provide builder or tool for Electron
<emily>
joepie91: that's not really true -- filesystem, subprocess, and native code interfacing APIs are pretty huge
<emily>
also raw sockets
<joepie91>
emily: no? those are Node APIs
<joepie91>
not Electron APIs
<emily>
I think electron has its own APIs for at least some of those
<emily>
hm
<emily>
tbh anything I ever knew about it might be hopelessly out of date at this point
<ldlework>
this is the worst part of Nix :P
<ldlework>
the dark abyss
<cole-h>
s/of Nix/electron/
<cole-h>
Trying to package it
<ldlework>
anything i don't already know how to package
<ldlework>
on ubuntu i would've just installed Sabaki, so Nix is involved here :)
<cole-h>
if it wasn't packaged for Ubuntu, you'd have the same (or similar) issue
<eyJhb>
ldlework: throw it into a Docker image, and let it access your screen :p
<cole-h>
Once it's packaged for nixpkgs, it won't be any different, IMO :)
<ldlework>
cole-h: yes but packaging there isn't so complicated that no one has figured it out yet
<ldlework>
all the other distros are getting on with electron
<cole-h>
Sucks for them
<ldlework>
and in most cases you can just run things from source using npm install
<cole-h>
:P
<ldlework>
cole-h: acknowledge our weaknesses :)
<cole-h>
But I like being a hard-headed zealot!
<ldlework>
eyJhb: What I really need to do is figure out how to use VMs from Nix so I can just run Ubuntu in a Window.
<ldlework>
So I can avoid this problem for good.
<eyJhb>
No no no
<eyJhb>
That is not hacky and unsafe enough
<ldlework>
I suppose another alternative is just use my windows machine to run sabaki and transfer the SGFs over the network.
<ldlework>
God damn it Nix.
<joepie91>
Electron honestly isn't that bad to package. the biggest issue is that because packaging sucks so hard on other platforms, it's commonplace to bundle Electron with your JS project as a dependency, which the Nix tooling then proceeds to choke on
<joepie91>
ldlework: is there an appimage?
<ldlework>
I literally know nothing about appimage, and no.
<joepie91>
(oh, well, I should add, Electron *is* bad to package in the "it's Chromium-derived" sense)
<joepie91>
ldlework: install appimage-run, and use that to run the appimage
<cole-h>
joepie91: Beat me to it
<joepie91>
80% of the time it works every time
<joepie91>
the other 20% is when it needs gtk
<ldlework>
so literally download this file and then run appimage on the file
<ldlework>
?
<joepie91>
(it works like steam-run, so `appimage-run ./path/to/your.AppImage`, make sure to chmod +x it first)
<eyJhb>
ANd then 80% change profit
<joepie91>
yeah
<ldlework>
I wont be impressed. But I'll be damned grateful.
<ldlework>
:P
* eyJhb
get him.
<ldlework>
/home/ldlework/.cache/appimage-run/08164fe203ca8c6dc0ccdf68d305cd375b7e9cde1142fa020b3c9fd8994d904c//squashfs-root/sabaki: error while loading shared libraries: libatspi.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<ldlework>
rip
<joepie91>
well that's one I haven't seen before :P
<joepie91>
ldlework: and `electron ./path/to/cloned/repo` also didn't work
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: is that baseless FUD again rearing its head the moment systemd is mentioned or is there something about that?
<MichaelRaskin>
aleph-: I was replying ot «does it need to?»
<samueldr>
because if it's baseless FUD against systemd, well meh
<samueldr>
I thought we were better
<aleph->
Hmm, what?
<MichaelRaskin>
samueldr: what major systemd features NixOS _does not_ need to be somewhat aware of?
<samueldr>
I don't know
<samueldr>
I'm not an expert
<aleph->
cole-h: Good. See the issue I see is, I use nixOS exclusively on server installs. Doesn't homed disallow you from ssh'ing to your user account?
<cole-h>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<aleph->
Bit of a problem for me if it's still true.
<sphalerite>
uh. _that_ sounds like FUD
<samueldr>
yes
<samueldr>
there's been *so much* floating around since the concept was unveilfed that's just patently wrong
<MichaelRaskin>
aleph-: systemd breaking SSH is something _I_ do not expect.
<cransom>
that was the concern that if you auto encrypted home directories. i doub tthats enabled by default or something you stumble into
<aleph->
Let me go check but I remember reading it holds for non encrypted homes
<cransom>
but also, nixos doesn't keep it's curated user ssh keys in a home dir either
<aleph->
Hmm true. So guess we sidestep that.
<aleph->
Wonder if it'll impact home-manager?
<MichaelRaskin>
aleph-: OpenSSH switches to your user before checking the authorized_keys (at least it just did on my system under strace…), so I would hope if you don't setup encryption nothing chages. Even if you ask the translation to be a FUSE mount without allow_others.
<hexa->
nixos users.users.<..>.openssh.authorizedKeys stores pubkeys in /etc/ssh/authorized_keys.d, so they're not encrypted when the user logs out (re: homed)
<__monty__>
How does it restrict the authorized keys to the users?
<aleph->
Let me go find the blog post for it...
<eyJhb>
Finally starting to use vim with autocomletion, snippets etc
<sphalerite>
On a different topic: I have a cheapo RGB light with an IR remote control. The remote control is gradually working less and less well, and I'd like to replace it — does anyone have suggestions on what the best way to do that might be? the circuit boards look like this: https://sphalerite.org/dump/rgblight/
<ldlework>
joepie91: eyJhb any idea?
<cransom>
assuming it's a regular old cheapo ir remote and you wanted a replacement, ebay/aliexpress likely has you covered
<ldlework>
/usr/bin/appimage-exec.sh: line 85: /home/ldlework/.cache/appimage-run/08164fe203ca8c6dc0ccdf68d305cd375b7e9cde1142fa020b3c9fd8994d904c/AppRun: No such file or director
<ldlework>
tilpner: why would I be getting this if I'm running the latest appimage-run?
<ldlework>
Why is it looking for AppRun in ~/.cache/appimage-run/ !?
<ldlework>
/usr/bin/appimage-exec.sh: line 85: /home/ldlework/.cache/appimage-run/AppRun: No such file or directory
<ldlework>
/usr/bin/appimage-exec.sh: line 85: /home/ldlework/.cache/appimage-run/08164fe203ca8c6dc0ccdf68d305cd375b7e9cde1142fa020b3c9fd8994d904c/AppRun: No such file or directory
<ldlework>
but that file exists
<ldlework>
Wait no it doesn't
<ldlework>
Because it's actually at ~/.cache/appimage-run/08164fe203ca8c6dc0ccdf68d305cd375b7e9cde1142fa020b3c9fd8994d904c/squashfs-root/AppRun
<ldlework>
under "squashfs-root"
<ldlework>
Does anyone know anything about appimage?
<ldlework>
Oh shit! I got it to work.
<ldlework>
yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
<ldlework>
It only took 4 hours and completely bypassing Nix :P
<sphalerite>
cransom: hmmmm… that would be one way. Though I also think it would be cool to turn the repair into an upgrade, maybe involving the ESP32 I already have in the room :D
<drakonis>
ldlework: appimage in a container?
<ldlework>
drakonis: just app image
<sphalerite>
heh, I wanted to test how fast this new server writes to the disks… and /dev/urandom is bottlenecking it to about 60MB/s :/
<sphalerite>
is there a faster source of non-compressible data?
<cransom>
sphalerite: an esp32 with a mosfet and harvesting that ir led (or another one) would get you somethign smarter. or you could directly esp32 the led aray if you wanted.
<sphalerite>
cransom: connecting the esp32 directly to the led array would be pretty cool, do you have any idea how?
<cransom>
well, if you want to be destructive, i bet you could remove the random 8 pin chip and then try sending 3.3 or 0v into the inputs on Q1. you could trace the wiring, some of the resistors could probably help there so you didn't need to add much. but if lights trigger on that, esp32 could flip them with a pin
<cransom>
picture is just potato enough i can't quite tell what leads where
<cransom>
is that an rgb panel?
<cransom>
if so, i'm sure each of those Qs is r/g/b
<sphalerite>
rgb panel?
<cransom>
but yeah. looks like if you just pop off that chip, you could add an esp in and drive those transistors, probably.
<cransom>
red/green/blue?
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<sphalerite>
yeah but panel?
<__monty__>
Hmm, getting a 404 when clicking a github notification and it prevents the notification from being cleared. Schödinger's notification?
<sphalerite>
aaah, nice, that does make a lot of snese
<cransom>
i don't know of a better word to describe a number of leds soldered to a pcb. it's a panel to me.
<cole-h>
ldlework: I'll trade you
<cole-h>
Cat for no cat
<cransom>
the fun thing about that setup is, esps and that board are super cheap. don't feel too bad if you let out the smoke.
<ldlework>
cole-h: how about cat for packaging up Sabaki
<sphalerite>
cransom: well, this does sound like it has potential :D do you know which side of the Qs I'd have to drive?
<__monty__>
sphalerite: Maybe a stream cipher on /dev/null?
<ldlework>
:P
<cole-h>
lol
<sphalerite>
__monty__: that won't yield much... :)
<sphalerite>
but /dev/zero, yeah maybe
<cransom>
sphalerite: follow the lines back to that 8 pin chip.
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<sphalerite>
cransom: and, do you know if the 3.3v from an ESP32 GPIO will be enough? The light runs on 5V and I don't see anything that might step that down on the board
<cransom>
r9, r12, r17 would be most likely. as for if 3.3v is enough, i don't know. if the Qs are labeled, you could look up the specs. if it's not quite enough, they should still be able to be driven, they may just not be as bright as with 5v.
<cransom>
you could run it and probe around with a multimeter (you have one right? you should get one if not, the cheapest is still super useful), you could see what the voltage is
<sphalerite>
yes, just used a multimeter to determine which Q is which colour ^^
<sphalerite>
since it's currently set to orange (and I can't really change it), I figured the one that has no voltage on it is blue, the one with 5V is red, and the one with 1V is green
<samueldr>
sounds likely
<sphalerite>
huh, I wonder why there are unpopulated resistor spots on the board?
<sphalerite>
jeez my multimeter just scared me, went beep-beep-beep-beep-beep. Thought it was a fire alarm at first. I guess it's to warn you when you forget to turn it off
<joepie91>
ha, I had that a few days ago
<samueldr>
according to my hours of experience of listening to big clive, unpopulated spots are because they often use one board for multiple designs
<joepie91>
sphalerite: re: unpopulated spots, that's usually done so that one board design can support multiple variants/models
<joepie91>
yeah that lol
<sphalerite>
cransom: in any case, thank you very very much for the help, I think I've got some stuff to go on now :)
<sphalerite>
the transistors are labelled A006
<joepie91>
samueldr: tbh big clive is probably the right one to learn from :P
<samueldr>
I think so too
<joepie91>
skip skip skip ah, infected mushroom, there we go
<samueldr>
(I also have limited experience from elsewhere so it helped)
<joepie91>
perfect counterpart to an orchestral performance
<sphalerite>
right, I guessed that much, but I wonder what adding the resistors would do? AFAICT it would be one more resistor where 3 resistors are bridging the same gap in parallel
<joepie91>
sphalerite: it might very well be something like "the more expensive model has a different more powerful chip on it, which requires slightly different inputs"
<sphalerite>
oh, I know something by infected mushroom!
<sphalerite>
Can't remember what it was… I think I discovered it on thebest404pageever.com (rip)
<cransom>
the missing stuff there could also be a cost concern. maybe at some point, resistors of X value are super cheap compared to what they normally used, so they could add others on to get the right value.
<cransom>
sphalerite: different colors of diodes will also trigger at different voltages too, which is fun.
<cransom>
(leds that is)
<sphalerite>
aaah! That makes sense, nice hack, hehe
<sphalerite>
oh joy
<cole-h>
One thing I really dislike with this trackball is that it's such a pain to select text with...
<samueldr>
cole-h: getting the start and end of words?
<samueldr>
try double-click-dragging
<cole-h>
I try
<cole-h>
The hard part atm is keeping the mouse button down :P
<samueldr>
you can double-click anywhere in the word to select it, but if you keep your last click down, you are selecting word-wise
<samueldr>
oh
<samueldr>
use your other hand ;)
<samueldr>
or lack thereof, feet or part of your face
<cransom>
sphalerite: samueldr mentioned him as well, but bigclive is awesome if you want to get some more passive ingestion of electronic stuff.
<cole-h>
samueldr: I also kinda miss my infinite scroll wheel from my logitech
<joepie91>
cransom: and don't forget the regular dose of offensively pink explosive devices with questionable purpose!
<sphalerite>
oh yeah, I've seen a few of his things (and before (I knew) he was on youtube I ravenously consumed most of his website) :)
<sphalerite>
passed up a chance to meet him IRL back when I was living in Glasgow :(
<eyJhb>
ldlework: no clue, did you solve it?
<ldlework>
eyJhb: yeah i was running the command against the wrong path
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<ashkitten>
hmm i should set up a thing so my microphones get muted when i lock my computer
<hexa->
hmm … swayidle and ponymix/pactl
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<cole-h>
Why does weechat feel the need to rewrite sec.conf every time it does anything
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<cole-h>
I've switched to a cert because I got tired of committing a file to my secrets repo that has changed but had no reason to
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<lovesegfault>
gchristensen, adisbladis: 5 days ago there were 4 features missing for me to be able to use NixOps, now there is only one; you two are moving at light-speed!
<cole-h>
gchristensen: What are the chances that gets covered on Friday? ;^)
<gchristensen>
which? :)
<gchristensen>
oh, hehe, proooobably not... but maybe!
<lovesegfault>
Oh, this reminds me, gchristensen I liked your report on the "being a woman on twitter for a week" experience
<gchristensen>
:) cool, I'm glad
<joepie91>
wait, what report is that?
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: You mentioned dick pics, but you didn't provide any metrics; I was curious how frequent that is
<lovesegfault>
d̶i̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶i̶c̶s̶ penial imagery
<lovesegfault>
forgot about the chat policy
<gchristensen>
too often
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: one time is too often though :P
<lovesegfault>
I was more curious about whether it's mostly repeat-offenders who do this over and over to the same person or whether it's a widespread problem and women just get bombarded with these from all directions
<lovesegfault>
My wife has no social media, so I'm blissfully unaware of any of this
<lovesegfault>
s/unaware/ignorant/
<lovesegfault>
to call it what it is :^)
<gchristensen>
I didn't get more than a few, thankfully
<lovesegfault>
"a few" - goddamn
<cole-h>
gchristensen: A braver man than I.
<gchristensen>
tbh the last 7h since posting have been miserable
<ashkitten>
i saw people harassing you in the replies to that, that's awful
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: I hope you know there are plenty of us that really appreciate that experience
<gchristensen>
thanks
<lovesegfault>
I showed my wife the thread and she thought it was awesome
<lovesegfault>
Well, that you did that, not what happened
<gchristensen>
for the most part, I get it... but, like, it doesn't make sense for me to try and correct any part of the story people are misunderstanding because there it won't make it better
<ashkitten>
i do feel really weird about people congratulating a man about sharing his very limited experiences when women post about this shit all the time and get extremely limited acknowledgement, though :/
<gchristensen>
ashkitten: yeah, for sure, to be honest I didn't expect this to ... happen.
* joepie91
is unfortunately less surprised
<gchristensen>
ashkitten: I didn't want this part
<ashkitten>
fwiw gchristensen you did nothing wrong, and people should not be harassing you, i just don't like that people feel the need to respond with strong positivity either
<joepie91>
this is a... difficult and touchy subject
<gchristensen>
ashkitten: thank you for that. I agree about the positivity part, too
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: I was mostly "amazed" by the idea; I knew that women go through this all the time, I know my wife deleted herself off the internet because of this, but I had never thought of a way that I could put myself in a situation to understand what it's like "in first person"
<lovesegfault>
not sure I'm being clear
<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: are you going to do it yourself, then?
<lovesegfault>
it's more of "what a cool experiment" than "what a discovery!"
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: do I need to? It's obvious to me that the "being a woman on the internet" experience is _not_ a pleasant one
<lovesegfault>
I guess I'd learn more about _how_ it's not good
<ashkitten>
that's the point of this whole thing.
<ashkitten>
it was for gchristensen to learn personally about it
<ashkitten>
i am critical of anyone who says things like "oh that's so inspiring!" but then goes on to do nothing about it. that's not inspiration, that's just feeling good about yourself for acknowledging someone else's struggle
<gchristensen>
yeah... like, I wanted to learn in my heart what I knew in my head
<ashkitten>
so i expect anyone who expresses positivity at gchristensen to actually go make a difference however they're able
<lovesegfault>
How can I make a difference?
<cole-h>
I would offer to do the same, except I have a total of 6 followers on Twitter, only 1 of which is a complete stranger to me.
<cole-h>
(and I don't frequently interact with Twitter..)
<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: i am not the best resource for this. be welcoming. ask activists for advice on being an ally
<ashkitten>
seriously critically analyze your own behavior and think about how it might affect people who are not you
<ashkitten>
listen to people who speak up about their experiences
<gchristensen>
if I'm in a situation which didn't go well but didn't know why, I'll seek out someone else (who I know, and knows me, very well) to help me understand -- this has been helpful a bunch of times and helps avoid looking like a concern troll
<ashkitten>
Irenes[m]: do you have anything you could add? i know this is a topic you care deeply about
<Irenes[m]>
let me catch up on the scrollback
<Irenes[m]>
thanks
<Irenes[m]>
ashkitten: you actually said it all really well
<Irenes[m]>
agreed, the value of an exercise like this is to make the experience emotionally real
<Irenes[m]>
as far as what people who want to help can do: help make sure that the right voices are in the room when decisions are being made
<Irenes[m]>
over and over, I have witnessed that the single biggest factor in whether a group manages to be inclusive of women, or any minority, is whether there is a woman (or a member of the minority in question), in the room when decisions are being made
<Irenes[m]>
otherwise nobody knows whether it's a good decision or a bad decision
<gchristensen>
+1
<Irenes[m]>
because there's always context about what it's like to be a member of that group, stuff that people only know by living it
<lovesegfault>
Is it a good or bad thing that so far this all sounds like basic stuff?
<Irenes[m]>
it's a good thing
<Irenes[m]>
I emphasize the basics because emphasizing them is how you make sure they're common knowledge, and because I don't know your level of experience with this stuff
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten++ Irenes[m]++
<{^_^}>
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<{^_^}>
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<Irenes[m]>
ah, thank you :)
<lovesegfault>
I'm at least somewhat familiar because I'm an immigrant
<Irenes[m]>
that makes a lot of sense
<lovesegfault>
which is a... learning experience to put it in a positive light
<genevino>
but you segfault at love...
<ashkitten>
the main thing i think is to never become complacent, to always strive to better yourself
<cole-h>
ashkitten++ Irenes[m]++ Thank you both for the insight.
<{^_^}>
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<Irenes[m]>
I am glad that this is a place where things like this can be said, and people listen to them
<gchristensen>
me too. thank you, Irenes[m] and ashkitten and lovesegfault
<cole-h>
lovesegfault++ Thanks for starting this conversation, and gchristensen++ thanks for sparking this discussion.
<{^_^}>
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<{^_^}>
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<genevino>
empathic things going on here :)
<lovesegfault>
genevino: I love segfaults, I don't segfault at love
<genevino>
:D
<lovesegfault>
the only thing better than sigsegv is a juicy sigill
<gchristensen>
reading `man systemd` taught me about so many signals I didn't know about
<qyliss>
signals are arcane and horrible :D
<ashkitten>
qyliss++
<{^_^}>
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<gchristensen>
:D
<cole-h>
D:
<genevino>
signal is arcane and horrible. signals are not.
<ashkitten>
for lack of a better unified system of message passing, signals are horrible
<lovesegfault>
Things I love: segfaults, linker errors, that thing where make keeps going after an error and you have to scroll around to find what happened but there are so many logs it's past your scrollback and you search like an idiot for 30mins, hacker news comments, phoronix comments, sites that mess up with scrollback and the back-button
<lovesegfault>
is love the right word?
<gchristensen>
lol
<infinisil>
It only just occured to me what your name means lovesegfault
<lovesegfault>
infinisil: :D
<genevino>
i've lately been asked what i could safely hold a 1hr talk about without preparing for it and my answer was bash.
<genevino>
the reaction of the person was quite, uhm, impressive.
<genevino>
gchristensen: in a way, yeah, indded.
<ashkitten>
qyliss: oh NO
<qyliss>
I love the bit about the semaphone function
<gchristensen>
oh I didn't get that far. okay, I'mdiving back in
<ashkitten>
"consider building strings one character at a time to be on the safe side"
<adisbladis>
Hardship builds character, character builds string
<ashkitten>
it makes me unreasonably upset that the article pretends like your string copy function failing if you lack write permissions to the current directory is a completely reasonable thing to expect
<gchristensen>
that is the beauty of the article in my eyes
<qyliss>
yes
<ashkitten>
it's infuriating and i both hate and love it to the maximum degree
<qyliss>
hey, it's better than just not being able to copy strings at all :D