gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<infinisil> Hm, how about ",kick <nick>", which would trigger "4 more votes by trusted nicks required to kick <nick> (list of trusted nicks: <url>)"
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<adisbladis> Sgtm
<qyliss> infinisil++
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 297
<cole-h> I dunno
<adisbladis> Omg I wish we had a chanop around atm
<cole-h> If it said that publicly, I feel like the person getting kicked would get more aggressive
<adisbladis> You could pm {^_^}
<cole-h> tbh even a public ,kick might instigate that
<infinisil> Not sure if PMs should be used for this
<cole-h> So yeah, if you could make that PM only, I feel like it's a decent idea...
<adisbladis> But tbh, it doesn't matter
<infinisil> Normal IRC kicks are also public
<samueldr> there needs to be accountability
<infinisil> Yeah ^
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<samueldr> so private submissions for ,kick sounds not good
<gchristensen> what's up samueldr
<samueldr> read adisbladis' PM <3
<samueldr> (I guess)
<cole-h> Fair. I just don't want to deal with an aggressor getting even more whacko because people are starting to ,kick them...
<samueldr> sphalerite: u-boot driver for rockchip display crashing your compiler?
<samueldr> that sounds... ungood
<sphalerite> yeah
<infinisil> cole-h: I'd also half expect for them to calm down, seeing that more votes would kick them for good
<sphalerite> that'll teach me to cheat by using an ubuntu container
<samueldr> infinisil: I think that'll go either way
<samueldr> BUT, the way it goes is probably more truthful to their behaviour
<infinisil> Oh yeah
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<samueldr> though, imo, I would rather see a bit more delegation around the clock than a bot feature that is way more involved
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<samueldr> and it's probably best to keep all bot features unprivileged
<gchristensen> +1
<infinisil> Of course the problem with having more admins is that a single one can decide to kick/ban somebody, which doesn't sound very good to me
<samueldr> sphalerite: is it reproducibly segfaulty? in that case does a previous gcc stdenv help?
<samueldr> infinisil: a single op that abuses their power is one that gets their power removed
<gchristensen> ^
<samueldr> that, and trust in the people selected is probably the way to go
<qyliss> With a troll like that you want to deal with them ASAP too
<gchristensen> ^, ^^
<sphalerite> samueldr: it consistently segfaults, but this is an ubuntu container x)
<cole-h> I vote gchristensen for admin!
<sphalerite> have yet to nixify it
<gchristensen> long-term community members who have a good feel and handle on the existing cultures and norms
<cole-h> Wait a second...
<infinisil> I think it would be hard to decide between subjective opinion about the person and abuse
<samueldr> sphalerite: ooh, not nixos, you naughty naughty
<gchristensen> it is hard, infinisil
<gchristensen> it is very hard
<samueldr> (tbf, I checked and it seems true that they're involved with mercode, and mercode has nixos ties... it seems like there is *something* that got them over the edge and it's not simply a troll)
<gchristensen> luckily most of the bans come from several people in IRC PM'ing me and saying "uh, can you ban ..."
<infinisil> gchristensen: That sounds pretty much like a voting system
<MichaelRaskin> gchristensen: next you need to make sure that they have a feel of the same community norms anyway
<infinisil> With votes you automatically get a bigger sample of annoyance
<infinisil> Instead of just one
<infinisil> (of course I might be biased because I'd implement that feature, but still)
<qyliss> I think it was pretty clear in that conversation that everybody was annoyed
<cole-h> samueldr: just saw this posted in #nixos -- https://github.com/mercode-org/meros-nix/issues/60
<{^_^}> mercode-org/meros-nix#60 (by Yutyo, 23 hours ago, open): The Problematic of Public Branding
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<sphalerite> samueldr: fixing that part just now :p
<sphalerite> when I should really be sleeping…
<infinisil> I heard that sleep helps with tiredness
<samueldr> sleep is for the others :)
<adisbladis> infinisil: What's your source?
<MichaelRaskin> infinisil: Was there a randomised controlled trial for that, though?
<adisbladis> Sounds sketchy, I always wake up tired
<gchristensen> I'll sleep on your behalf. I have taken two (2) naps
<gchristensen> today
<infinisil> adisbladis: Lol
<samueldr> adisbladis: maybe you need to go back to sleep
<adisbladis> I wish I could take naps :/
<infinisil> We should definitely conduct more research on this sleep thing
<gchristensen> (I didn't sleep enough 3 days this week, and it caught up to me today)
<infinisil> I think we have our first test subject!
<sphalerite> sleep is for the week.
<sphalerite> And it's the weekend.
<MichaelRaskin> Or maybe it's for the weak, and now you are weakened?
<joepie91> ... lol
<gchristensen> adisbladis: would you be up to talking to a friend of mine about podman + nixos-in-podman?
<adisbladis> gchristensen: Sure
<cole-h> It's days like these I wish I had a beefy server to build on... 40 minutes of kernel building (not that bad tbh, but could be better)
<adisbladis> cole-h: It could always be worse
* adisbladis is building pypy
<cole-h> Ouch
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<hoverbear> gchristensen =D
<adisbladis> Mandelbrot though
<gchristensen> hey hey hoverbear
<cole-h> o/
<MichaelRaskin> adisbladis: next round — PyPy vs. Chromium?
<hoverbear> Hi hi =D
<adisbladis> MichaelRaskin: Oh no, you win.
<gchristensen> hoverbear: https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/1326 so this PR has some fairly simple Python code to create a docker image with nixos inside it, and then run it with podman
<{^_^}> nixops#1326 (by adisbladis, 3 weeks ago, open): tests: Add functional tests using NixOS in Podman (Docker)
<gchristensen> hoverbear: the one caveat of if you do this with actually docker is this part .... https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/1326#discussion_r417610454
<hoverbear> So, I was thinking, why can't you do the same trick as the WSL2 trick?
<MichaelRaskin> adisbladis: _I_ win by grabbing the latest Chromium there is in cache instead of building it, though
<gchristensen> hoverbear: what trick is that? :)
* adisbladis is all ears
<hoverbear> If you get cgroup permissions you can create a child cgroup
* colemickens spies rootless containery stuff ! cool!
<adisbladis> hoverbear: What exactly is the trick here?
<hoverbear> Forgive me -- I am a nix acolyte at best, still learning my way around :)
<adisbladis> No need to excuse yourself :)
<hoverbear> My blog shows it a bit better? the `daemonize unshare --fork` stuff
<adisbladis> I think there is some good stuff in there we might want to incorporate
<hoverbear> The `nixos/nix` container is great but I'd love to pack a full server in a container
<adisbladis> That bit is already working nicely in my NixOps PR
<qyliss> hoverbear: have you encountered ociTools?
<qyliss> It gives you a function to generate a container image from a Nix derivation
<hoverbear> So I can get a shell and start booping my keys into it? Run `nixos-rebuild switch`?
<adisbladis> hoverbear: Me or qyliss ?
<hoverbear> I hadn't yet :o
<adisbladis> hoverbear: What you see in the NixOps PR you can do `nixops deploy` to
<hoverbear> adisbladis: If there is anything where I can cook my colleagues a container that can run in docker that can manage its own services, I'd love it =D
<adisbladis> I don't have a good story around actually persisting though
<adisbladis> And, the caveats around using Docker from gchristensen still applies
<hoverbear> I have this situation where like 75% of my team is fine trying Nix, the rest want to keep using Docker and Podman like they already do
<hoverbear> So I can't kill their workflow
<adisbladis> https://github.com/Trundle/NixOS-WSL/blob/master/configuration.nix#L39-L47 looks like they may solve that problem
<drakonis1> but you can have docker and podman and nix together
<drakonis1> you can have them migrate slowly
<adisbladis> colemickens: If you're on unstable rootless container support is starting to get there :)
<hoverbear> Yeah :) I just want to use nix to build the containers :)
<sphalerite> /nix/store/a57856fs4m8ir6vlv14h3gq3sv9aq2lb-binutils-2.31.1/bin/ld: cannot find -lc
<sphalerite> ugh I think this is my sign I should go to bed
<hoverbear> I see at least 2 buses
<drakonis1> this is the "train our AI" captcha question
<hoverbear> I love answering those slightly wrong
<adisbladis> hoverbear: Alrighty
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<adisbladis> If it helps I could extract the Nix bits from that PR and make a minimal example
<colemickens> gchristensen: in ten years there's going to be a wreck involving an rv or bus.
<hoverbear> So I work on vector.dev, and our test suite is basically "Start a bunch of services and start running them, run some tests, stop them, run new services and more tests" on repeat all day
<colemickens> the future computer in charge will determine you poisoned the dataset.
<adisbladis> And I noticed some things that should be upstreamed in Nixpkgs but I havent gotten around to yet
<hoverbear> My solution atm is pass in the docker socket and let the nix container start other containers
<hoverbear> But that's ... eugh
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<bqv> adisbladis: btw xonsh is becoming natural
<bqv> i've started activtely using python in my shell activities
<bqv> i love it
<bqv> the only thing that really bothers me is the lack of a{x,y}b from bash
<adisbladis> Stop tempting me with shiny things
<bqv> :D
<cole-h> I was tempted until you said it lacked `a{x,y}b`
<cole-h> I use that too much
<colemickens> hm, something to naively convert my shell to pythong as a starting point would be neat
<cole-h> Pythong? Kinky.
<bqv> cole-h: i do too, but it's worth the shift
<adisbladis> I'm afraid of how leaky xonsh might be
<bqv> you can emulate it with python
<adisbladis> hoverbear: So what would you like to get to instead?
<hoverbear> Well the `nixos/nix` image can't really manage services that way, but if we had `nixos-rebuild switch` or something I think that'd be better?.. Not entirely sure. I hate docker.
<hoverbear> But you know, user empathy
<adisbladis> Haha :D
<adisbladis> That's my main driving force for working on Podman in NixOS
<hoverbear> But like, it'd be super sweet if I could have a `nix-shell` that started something like `nginx` or something
<adisbladis> It's not that I love podman, I hate docker enough to actively work on an alternative
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<bqv> adisbladis: i can get behind that
<hoverbear> I'd be happier with a WASI runtime tbh....
<hoverbear> `nix-shell` is satisfying until you hit the glass ceiling Q_Q
<MichaelRaskin> nixos-container?
<drakonis1> ah a glass ceiling...
<drakonis1> nixos-container only works within nixpkgs
<hoverbear> MichaelRaskin That'd be great if everyone had `nix` installed :)
<qyliss> hoverbear: I think I would run a small supervisor like s6-svscan inside an ociTools container
<qyliss> You'd have to write all the service configuration yourself, though. That could be easy or not, depending on the services.
<hoverbear> Ooooo yeah this looks super duper cool... So I can give this a nixos configuration.nix?
<qyliss> No
<hoverbear> Yeah systemd services aren't bad
<qyliss> NixOS can't really run in a container
<hoverbear> Yeah get that
<hoverbear> systemd is a crutch etc
<qyliss> It just takes a Nix derivation
<hoverbear> Ok :)
<qyliss> So you'd write a derivation that runs a supervisor
<qyliss> Which could probably be systemd!
<hoverbear> Yeah!
<qyliss> But could also be something lighter since all it needs to do is start some services.
<hoverbear> That's what I'vbe been playing with tbh
<hoverbear> But it's hard to get systemd to pass off a shell
<hoverbear> So you gotta ssh in
<qyliss> But this is definitely the mechanism for you, I think
<hoverbear> Yeah, I think so
<qyliss> You get a container image, that can be used with whatever container runtime (I assume)
<hoverbear> Since I'm orcestrating it with `make` I can jsut call shell
<qyliss> I don't actually know how well you can use straight OCI containers with Docker
<qyliss> If it has to be actual Docker images you'd need to use dockerTools instead
<qyliss> But same basic idea
<adisbladis> qyliss: I'm building containers with NixOS inside using dockerTools
<qyliss> oh neat!
<ashkitten> <cole-h> Pythong? Kinky. << netbsd sells branded thongs on their merch store
<qyliss> It's annoying that "container image" means two different things
<adisbladis> The biggest caveat is that they require --privileged
<qyliss> either the layered docker thing, or the OCI container that sits below it
<adisbladis> With all that entails
<adisbladis> But, it works just fine in rootless podman with --privileged
<qyliss> oh, cool
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<hoverbear> Back later, thanks for the ideas =D
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<cole-h> ashkitten: lmao
<ashkitten> we should have a merch store
<ashkitten> tbh
<qyliss> the logos and stuff are creative commons, right?
<qyliss> so anyone can start a merch store :)
<ashkitten> true
<adisbladis> Someone did
<ashkitten> do they sell thongs?
<adisbladis> ashkitten: Sad to disappoint you
<qyliss> there's the Smash the State shirts, right?
<ashkitten> unfortunate
<samueldr> (and, somewhat importantly, mog contributes back sales revenue)
<adisbladis> qyliss: Those were only on sale at CCC
<qyliss> </3
<adisbladis> And no revenue back to NixOS foundation (this is a problem)
<ashkitten> hmmmm
<ashkitten> i want another trans colors nixos sticker, i wonder if i can make one on redbubble
<ashkitten> i just don't know how redbubble does that stuff
<ashkitten> if i'd have to give them my legal info
<qyliss> if you just want some stickers for yourself, redbubble is probably not the place?
<ashkitten> well yeah but id want to make them available to others
<samueldr> by-the-unit stickers making choice leaves to be desired, since stickermule stopped
<samueldr> redbubble *is* likely the better choice around
<ashkitten> but it might be cheaper to just do a big run somewhere else and ship them out to people wha want
<adisbladis> Then you need to get into logistics.. Not fun
<ashkitten> yeah
<ashkitten> i'm just sad that the sticker got destroyed on my keyboard
<samueldr> shredding some mad code?
<ashkitten> no, just rubbed away with my palm until it looked gross
<adisbladis> ashkitten: Just say you hacked the gibson
<ashkitten> you hacked the gibson
<adisbladis> ...
<adisbladis> Technically...
<adisbladis> <3 ashkitten
<{^_^}> ashkitten's karma now has 2 digits!
<ashkitten> technically correct is the best kind of correct
<emily> nix disappointment of the day: can't inherit (a) b.c
<infinisil> emily: inherit (a.b) c?
<emily> infinisil: in this case it was part of inherit (fun arg) b.c b.d e f
<emily> so annoying to split up like that
<infinisil> Oh you want to have the equivalent of `b.c = a.b.c`
<emily> yeah
<infinisil> That almost seems like something that could be made to work
<emily> IMO this is kind of annoying to refactor
<emily> need to lift out the expression into a `let, then `systemd = { inherit (...); ... };` and so on
<infinisil> Arghh I can't wait until allergy time is over
<infinisil> It's horrible right now
<infinisil> "The widespread urban legend that one swallows a high number of spiders during sleep in one's life has no basis in reality"
<infinisil> Phew!
<infinisil> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions , really interesting read!
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<pie_> this is just part of the spider conspiracy <infinisil> "The widespread urban legend that one swallows a high number of spiders during sleep in one's life has no basis in reality"
<infinisil> qyliss: Nice
<infinisil> It's just so easy to get absorbed into wikipedia
<emily> infinisil: I assumed that everyone learned this already from the spiders georg meme
<emily> which is wholly factual in all regards and can therefore be regarded as an absolute source of ground truth
* infinisil hasn't seen that meme before
<infinisil> Heh
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<cole-h> I just remembered something I forgot to backup before I reinstalled NixOS -- my todo list :(
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<ldlework> doh
<samueldr> wow, look at all that free time!
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<cole-h> samueldr: lol :D I still have my old copy from ~Sunday. But the past few days I think I added quite a few borg things to my list :(
<samueldr> the purge didn't go deeply enough
<cole-h> I'll have to re-read the borg channel logs for the past week to see if I can remember some of what I had
<samueldr> handily, someone records the logs publicly!
<cole-h> :P That's what I was talking about
<cole-h> Thanks for that btw <3 samueldr
<{^_^}> samueldr's karma got increased to 233
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<cole-h> btw ldlework you can add the contents of that file I sent earlier to your `hardware.pulseaudio.extraConfig` and it'll get added to `/etc/pulse/default.pa` instead of needing to put it at `~/.pulse/default.pa`
<ldlework> cole-h: nice
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<eyJhb> ornxka: hoped someone would read it that way :p
<eyJhb> Congrats sphalerite !! :D
<eyJhb> Damn it, forget IPMI login to my router
<eyJhb> Got it!
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<talyz> eyJhb: hey! I guess we need to sync our irc times ;)
<talyz> eyJhb: what's the problem?
<talyz> eyJhb: and which module are you using? The NixOS or home-manager one?
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<Taneb> Modifying the CMake derivation so I can emulate gameboy advance games is a productive use of my time, right?
<__monty__> Yes.
<talyz> Sounds reasonable.
<Taneb> (if this works I'm going to be making a PR to nixpkgs staging)
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<viric> meh. I always hang soffice by picking a select-copy a range of cells, and trying to paste (the range) into a formula.
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<eyJhb> Taneb: You still here? :p
<Taneb> eyJhb: yes
<eyJhb> talyz** :p Sorry Taneb
<Taneb> Darn, I thought you were going to solve all my CMake woes :P
<eyJhb> You wouldn't want me to touch that! :p
<eyJhb> But that is a nice project :p
<eyJhb> talyz, and co.: didn't realize it was a home-manager module thingy :p works now
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<eyJhb> Forget to remove some debug from the 17th of Febuary `echo "ran" >> /home/eyjhb/.i3-scripts/test-ran`, I have run the script (to show/hide calculator+floating terminal) 10.000 times since then
<gchristensen> haha
<eyJhb> Should maybe remove that :p
<eyJhb> gchristensen: do you have a solution for /etc/machine-id? Mine seems to be empty, even when persistent
<gchristensen> do you need it to be persistent?
<clever> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 33 Oct 11 2015 /etc/machine-id
<clever> ive got little clue what created it to begin with
<eyJhb> Used for some systemd stuff
<gchristensen> yeah but any you care about?
<gchristensen> for me, I didn't care so I don't persist it
<eyJhb> As far as I know, from etu, things such as boot logs will be weird (is what I gathered
<eyJhb> )
<gchristensen> ah
<eyJhb> But it also keeps overwriting my links to static
<eyJhb> clever: first boot I assume :p
<eyJhb> `lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 May 23 17:44 /etc/machine-id -> /etc/static/machine-id`
<eyJhb> Stupid thing
<gchristensen> I'd ask etu :P
<gchristensen> I don't keep boot logs
<eyJhb> etu: get over here :p
<eyJhb> I suspect it is also the reason for this
<eyJhb> [/etc/tmpfiles.d/journal-nocow.conf:26] Failed to resolve specifier: uninitialized /etc detected, skipping
<eyJhb> All rules containing unresolvable specifiers will be skipped.
<eyJhb> Anyways, lets see if I can get everything nice :D
<eyJhb> I should start with the.. xdg dirs.
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<talyz> eyJhb: Yep, that one is the home-manager one
<talyz> eyJhb: I keep my /etc/machine-id around with the persistent-module I wrote for NixOS
<talyz> ..and yes, you need it for journald
<eyJhb> talyz: but atm. my machine-id is not even generated, jush ""
<eyJhb> just*
<talyz> oh, that's odd
<talyz> it should be generated on boot...
<eyJhb> And symlinks to /etc/static/machine-id
<eyJhb> Let me try your module real quick
<eyJhb> Guessing that targetdir should match the layout of `etc` so that machine-id sholud be in /persistent/etc/machine-id. Right talyz ?
<talyz> eyJhb: yeah, targetDir is the directory under which all persisntent files will be put
<eyJhb> `/etc/machine-id` still points at /etc/static/machine-id
<eyJhb> The hell
<talyz> eyJhb: directories and subdirectories will be automatically created (if createDirectories == true)
<talyz> eyJhb: it should!
<talyz> eyJhb: ..but it should be a symlink to the real file
<talyz> /etc/static/machine-id, that is
<talyz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 70 Jan 1 1970 /etc/static/machine-id -> /nix/store/a9qj7d3ah86hzhijjs5dmf5vbzsmaww0--persistent-etc-machine-id
<talyz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Jan 1 1970 /nix/store/a9qj7d3ah86hzhijjs5dmf5vbzsmaww0--persistent-etc-machine-id -> /persistent/etc/machine-id
<talyz> or, well, multiple levels of symlinks :p
<eyJhb> Hmm. yes, but the only trouble is it is empty :p Let me make it non persistent, maybe it will give me an id on the next boot then
<talyz> eyJhb: you can have it "persistent", but not point at an existing file
<talyz> the file the symlinks point to will then be created
<talyz> so just remove the empty file at /persistent/etc/machine-id (if that's where it is) and reboot :)
<cole-h> ZFS peeps: is it a bad idea to create my pool with atime=off, xattr=sa, acltype=posixacl globally (e.g. with -O)? That's what I'm doing now, but idk if I should set those only for the things that /really/ it...
<eyJhb> Also got this `May 23 18:11:52 eos2 systemd-fstab-generator[4171]: Checking was requested for "/persistent/var/log", but it is not a device.`
<eyJhb> Wil try!
<talyz> eyJhb: yeah, that's probably because it's a bind mount
<sphalerite> I hitnk I may have spent hte past 4 hours chasing down a single missing 0.
<talyz> maybe there's an option to turn off checking..
<eyJhb> Got a machine-id now
<talyz> eyJhb: \o/
<eyJhb> You have /var/log yourself, don't you get that error as well?
<eyJhb> Have to wait and press ignore at boot
<talyz> eyJhb: oh, no, nothing that serious
<talyz> I think I saw something similar in my log, but it doesn't delay boot or anything
<eyJhb> Weird, it is the same line I put in
<talyz> May 21 13:27:24 flora systemd-fstab-generator[630]: Checking was requested for "/persistent/var/log", but it is not a device.
<talyz> so yeah
<cole-h> sphalerite: Oof. How so?
<qyliss> cole-h: that's what I do
<qyliss> although I also set relatime=on
<gchristensen> nothing like having someone desperately trying to rub your face in a "learn to google it next time" answer, and being able to turn it back around on them just a little bit
<eyJhb> Weird talyz, but then we are in the same boat, mine is just more annyoing :p
<cole-h> qyliss: Thanks for the sanity check. What does relatime do?
<talyz> eyJhb: I think the solution is fileSystems.<name?>.noCheck = true, so I'll add that
<qyliss> relatime sets the atime to be the same as mtime, AIUI
<eyJhb> Guessing name would be /var/log?
<sphalerite> samueldr: YAY I got the coreboot+u-boot image building with nix!
<qyliss> So you still don't cause writes every time you read a file, but you get some sort of information from atime, even if it's not really accurate
<eyJhb> Dunno if #nix is more appropiate now talyz :p
<eyJhb> nixos*
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<cole-h> gchristensen: Hehe. It sure feels good to be able to turn someone's snark towards them...
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<cole-h> qyliss: Oh, alright. I don't see a need for it, so I'll stay without it for now :P
<gchristensen> it only somewhat aleviates the sting of assumed incompetence
<talyz> eyJhb: heh, yeah, maybe? :)
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<__monty__> How does everyone always know context for all these things that don't happen on irc?
<sphalerite> cole-h: missed the last 0 in the entrypoint address for the u-boot image in my coreboot+u-boot firmware
<cole-h> sphalerite: Ouch, that'll do it haha
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<cole-h> __monty__: What do you mean "do[es]n't happen on irc"? Are you telling me there's life outside of IRC?
<__monty__> cole-h: Well, clearly neither of us has one. But I'm trying to think *outside* the IRC box.
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<cole-h> :D
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<ashkitten> gchristensen: "i told you so" is the worst phrase tbh
<gchristensen> pretty bad
<ornxka> but then what are you supposed to say if you really did tell them so
<cole-h> "Glad you got it figured out in the end"
<ashkitten> ^
<cole-h> Unless you *want* to be passive-aggressive (probably more aggressive tbh) -- in which case, go for the "I told you so"
<ashkitten> "told you so" is a phrase purely to make you feel better than another person
<ashkitten> if you're trying to be supportive you want to boost them up not shove them down
<cole-h> Am I paranoid if, when `zfs create`ing, I do `-o canmount=off` for my supersets, e.g. tank/system, which has root and var?
<cole-h> (Also, what does `zfs create` create -- a zvol?)
<gchristensen> it creates a dataset
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<cole-h> "A zvol is block storage, while datasets are file-based." Oh, OK.
<ashkitten> zvols are cool
<ashkitten> don't put swap on them
<cole-h> gchristensen: I swear, I'll read that series on ZFS you linked a while back some time...
<gchristensen> do so :)
<gchristensen> you need it
<cole-h> As you can tell 😆
<ashkitten> swap on zvol can result in deadlocks or worse if you try to suspend to it
<ashkitten> if you suspend to swap on zvol expect a corrupted pool, tbh
<cole-h> Is there a way to disable suspending to swap, so that never happens? :^)
<cole-h> Also gchristensen: what does `elevator=none` do, and why is it necessary for when you have a separate /boot?
<ashkitten> cole-h: just don't put swap on a zvol
<ashkitten> don't do it
<ashkitten> btrfs barely has support for that
<ashkitten> zfs definitely doesn't
<cole-h> If I have a separate swap partition, am I safe from that?
<ashkitten> at best you will get double caching, at worst you'll get deadlocks and corruption
<ashkitten> yes
<ashkitten> you can do whatever if your swap is not on zfs
<cole-h> Darn, so that doesn't explain why, when I power up my machine after it being suspended to RAM for ~8 hours, it never actually resumes x)
<ashkitten> suspend to ram is different
<cole-h> Yeah, I was grasping for straws
<ashkitten> suspend to swap is called hibernation i guess
<cole-h> I had this problem on Arch, too, at one point. Then it mysteriously disappeared. Now it's reappeared. :(
* gchristensen goes for lunch while nix-collect-garbage runs
<gchristensen> lol, I pruned 2,500 generations
<cole-h> Dayum
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<gchristensen> I hate GC'ing. it is such a big time suck
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<cole-h> Just do it every few minutes :')
<gchristensen> I used to :')
<__monty__> Have it scheduled?
<gchristensen> let's apply go's gc model to Nix and get sub-milisecond gc pauses
<cole-h> lol
<__monty__> I refuse to believe you're *that* productive.
<__monty__> ; p
<gchristensen> the real goal being: let me build while running gc
<MichaelRaskin> At least after it has finished enumerating the roots and paths
<eyJhb> gchristensen: rewrite Nix as go!
<gchristensen> lol
<gchristensen> finding garbage collector roots...
<gchristensen> ^ this step took 30 minutes because it seems to have had needed to delete the trash directory first, while holding the gc lock
<ldlework> adisbladis: will you be setting up styx repo today?
<gchristensen> nice. after tweaking how nixos' initrd logic works, I was able to make a new netboot image in just 2min, and an incremental change then rebuild took only 20s
<ldlework> neat
<cole-h> gchristensen: :o
<MichaelRaskin> Nice
<gchristensen> before the tweak, it'd take about 5min every time
<ldlework> gchristensen: if we are moving styx into nix-community, does it make sense to have a #nixos-styx
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<ashkitten> honestly i don't believe that go's gc is significantly better than say, java's
<ashkitten> i'd believe that it runs more often with smaller sweeps
<gchristensen> let's apply java's GC to the nix store, then
<gchristensen> a shame this initrd improvement can't hit nixpkgs.
<cole-h> Why's that?
<MichaelRaskin> I do not believe that Java's GC is a singular thing
<gchristensen> it uses recursive nix
<ashkitten> garbage collector hristensen
<gchristensen> lol ashkitten
<cole-h> ashkitten++
<{^_^}> ashkitten's karma got increased to 12, it's a crit!
<cole-h> Hahahahaha
* ashkitten rakes in the fake internet points
<ashkitten> internet points are fun
<ashkitten> as long as they're only for fun
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<cole-h> These ones aren't only for fun though.
<cole-h> ,loot
<{^_^}> [2018-05-26 20:24:58] <gchristensen> 25 points gets you a sticker, 100 points gets you a t-shirt, 1000 verified points gets you a free trip to nixcon *restrictions apply, must be verifiable points, given by grateful people, in channels I'm in
<cole-h> ;^)
<etu> haha
<__monty__> Would this be a signed sticker/shirt? 🤔
<samueldr> only with the finest gpg
<cole-h> lol
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<emily> 18:34 <cole-h> Also gchristensen: what does elevator=none do, and why is it necessary for when you have a separate /boot?
<emily> note that
<emily> May 23 16:57:10 renko kernel: Kernel parameter elevator= does not have any effect anymore.
<emily> Please use sysfs to set IO scheduler for individual devices.
<emily> I have a TODO to fix this in my system config
<emily> basically ZFS does its own IO scheduling so you want to turn the kernel's off
<emily> but elevator=none no longer works
<emily> it would be good if this could be done upstream since I think it might be fiddly to get the sysfs stuff working
<cole-h> Then, how do I do it with sysfs? :P
<andi-> TIL: nxos.org
<drakonis> oh yeah
<drakonis> that's a thing
<drakonis> it came to exist a few years ago
<drakonis> it is certainly funny they're complaining about microsoft using the name maui when they hold nxos.org
<infinisil> Not sure how these have anything to do with eachother?
<drakonis> they were complaining about name clashes
<drakonis> and similar names
<samueldr> who's "they"?
<{^_^}> dotnet/maui#35 (by probonopd, 4 days ago, closed): [Bug] Name clash with Maui Linux and MauiKit
<drakonis> this is the appimage creator
<drakonis> and i recall there being a blog post on the matter
<__monty__> Well was the domain registered before nixos.org? Cause then they'd have more reason to complain, not less.
<samueldr> I don't think nxos is related to that maui thing at all
<drakonis> it is
<drakonis> hmm
<drakonis> maui linux is a distro
<drakonis> and mauikit is a toolkit
<drakonis> it is brought up on the issue by probonopd
<samueldr> oh, looks like it could be because they mentioned "we" as who opened the issue about maui on that nxos repo
<drakonis> both of them
<samueldr> oh, or not, two distinct issues
<samueldr> not related, but coincidentally involved I think
<drakonis> hmm actually
<drakonis> he's involved in mauikit
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<ashkitten> lol verifiable points
<ashkitten> gchristensen: what sticker?
<ashkitten> i don't think i've ever gotten karma for helping people, because people who need help don't usually know about karma
<infinisil> Yeah I'm not sure if loot for these imaginary internet points is a good idea, it makes them have a worth, which they really shouldn't
<gchristensen> ,loot =
<{^_^}> Undefined loot, was defined as: [2018-05-26 20:24:58] <gchristensen> 25 points gets you a sticker, 100 points gets you a t-shirt, 1000 verified points gets you a free trip to nixcon *restrictions apply, must be verifiable points, given by grateful people, in channels I'm in
<adisbladis> I think ,loot is a joke?
<ashkitten> yeah i didnt think it was real
<infinisil> I think graham was serious about it, but I won't blame him for not doing it after all :)
<ashkitten> i'm just curious what stickers graham has
<gchristensen> next time I order stickers, I'll be ordering extra to hand out :)
<adisbladis> I want that tshirt
<adisbladis> I need to farm more karma
<gchristensen> I am officially a fan of recursive nix
<ashkitten> 10k ultra-mega-verified points gets you dinner with graham
<gchristensen> on the contrary I really want to have a free nixcon bbq in my back yard :P
<ashkitten> that'd be cool
<__monty__> European contingent represent!
<__monty__> ; p
<ldlework> Anyone interested in following / contributing to Styx can join us in #nixos-styx
* adisbladis would come to gchristensen's backyard Nix bbq, no matter how far
<samueldr> to the moon!
<ashkitten> i haven't been to nixcon or any conference because money and also i don't really have anything to contribute by coming
<joepie91> more nix stickers is better
<joepie91> maybe next congress there will finally not be a stickerpocalypse :P
<gchristensen> ldlework++
<{^_^}> ldlework's karma got increased to 14
<ashkitten> what's styx?
<ldlework> ashkitten: it's a nix-based static site generator
<ashkitten> ah neat
<ldlework> which is actually quite nice
<ashkitten> linky?
<infinisil> ashkitten: You have your company to contribute for Nixcon!
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<ashkitten> lol well that's sweet but i still don't have the money to go
<samueldr> trip to europe, for those from outside the "old continent", is quite expensive
<adisbladis> ashkitten: Which aspect is too expensive?
<__monty__> I'm not sure a trip to america would be cheaper if averaged over all the atendees though?
<__monty__> Anyway, since the pandemic maybe next one will be virtual?
<samueldr> it's already confirmed to be
<ashkitten> i mean, if it's a virtual conference then i have even less to contribute
<samueldr> hard to tell for sure, but there is a european bias in the community, so assuming it costs the same to go over the big ol' pond it likely would cost more
<samueldr> ashkitten: maybe no talk, but surely you'll come watch the talks and discuss with other people
<__monty__> Is nixcon big enough to survive a split?
<samueldr> don't know, but there is definitely to lose in creating two separate experiences
<samueldr> and that still leaves autralian and asian folks hanging
<samueldr> oceanian*
<samueldr> let's not forget about the oft-forgotten new zealand
<ashkitten> samueldr: don't count on it, watching streams online is not easy with my adhd
<samueldr> oh well :/
<adisbladis> I'd love to have a Nixcon north america
<samueldr> it'd probably be worth it not to split the main event, but just like there was a small one (was it oslo?) make it a minicon or something?
<samueldr> an additional event
<adisbladis> samueldr: The Oslo event was hardly official
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> I was thinking, if the thought is to split the main event
<ldlework> I really wish there was a way to send people on Github a message.
<ldlework> I mean wth
<__monty__> Well, there should be an email if there's at least one commit.
<ldlework> __monty__: good thinking
<__monty__> Yeah, don't abuse it of course.
<ldlework> __monty__: I am attempting to reach out to the creator of Styx
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<ldlework> Has anyone created a nix template tool yet?
<ldlework> By which I mean, like a "dotnet new"-like tool
<ldlework> Where it fetches project templates from git and will parameterize some stuff
<ldlework> I think in Python it's called cookiecutter?
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<infinisil> Whaaaaaaat
<infinisil> There's some weird noise in our kitchen
<infinisil> But it only happens when you.. *stomp on the ground*
<infinisil> ...???
<infinisil> Like even just a little will trigger it
<ldlework> One day I would like to learn enough Nix to learn how to make my own modules/options, such that the user can define multiple services which generate multiple of these configs, https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/c99b0cac31c1f5b2e45eb1466d1ea416
<infinisil> I am seriously confused
<infinisil> It's also a very high pitch and not very loud, making it ver hard to pinpoint
<FireFly> o.o
<FireFly> s-some animal stuck underneath the floor?
<infinisil> It's some electronic device I'm very sure
<infinisil> Always the same noise
<samueldr> could be something clinking or clanking at the same pitch
<infinisil> Whatever, kitchen is haunted
<infinisil> samueldr: Oh!
<infinisil> That sounds like a thing it could be
<samueldr> something in a cupboard, glasses or something, just about to touch
<samueldr> or balanced
<samueldr> do you have, like, that one plate that doesn't sit flat?
<infinisil> Can't find anything
<infinisil> Also, even stomping just a bit in the middle of the kitchen can trigger it
<samueldr> basically a lever you're pushing on
<infinisil> I give up, I just spend a couple hours debugging code, don't want to debug the kitchen too
<samueldr> heh
<samueldr> rope off the middle of the room "no steppy please"
* infinisil gets the tape