gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<Shados> gchristensen: yeah I have a referral code if you want
<Ralith> gchristensen: I'm happy with my fastmail account also
<Ralith> very no-nonsense, feels good to be a customer rather than a product
<Ralith> good docs, wiring it up to my domain name was easy
<Shados> o.0 they launched a new logo
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<eyJhb> joepie91: *sigh* someone else requested the pricing feature :p
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<ashkitten> i want so badly to have something to do with my 250 gig ssd but the only thing it's doing right now is a boot partition and swap
<ashkitten> all my data is on mirrored spinning disks with zfs log and special vdevs as partitions on a pair of 128gb ssds
<ashkitten> i'd put l2arc on my other ssd since it doesnt require redundancy but it would be completely useless since i have 32 gigs of ram and the arc never even gets to 10 gigs
<__monty__> Run a blockchain? That'll hit your disk pretty hard : >
<ashkitten> i dont even know how to acknowledge that
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<joepie91> eyJhb: hahaha, now you're stuck with it :P
<etu> eyJhb: You made a monster!
<joepie91> eyJhb: also, allow me to repeat this: [12:22] <joepie91> eyJhb: you know how this goes, right - in 3 years, you'll be running the dominant student rental site in Denmark
<joepie91> :P
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<sphalerite> ashkitten: use it as /tmp?
<manveru> ashkitten: there's always filecoin :P
<eyJhb> joepie91: pretty much! I just had a meeting with HR. She actually had a contact with the ones at AKU-Aalborg, and think I should contact them regarding it..
<eyJhb> Plus the student community FB Page want to promote it...
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> congrats :P
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<eyJhb> Now for the moneygrab!
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<joepie91> lol
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<qyliss> re: the git thing from last night, I feel like it's a little disingenuous to say "this was a lot of work to upstream a single patch" when almost all the work was fixing a server misconfiguration
<qyliss> In the same way, setting up a GitHub account is "a lot of work to upstream a single patch". It's something you set up once.
<gchristensen> setting up a github account is "a lot of" trivial work which doesn't require research and diagnonsis
<qyliss> neither does git-send-email if your distro hasn't broken it
<gchristensen> okay
<qyliss> Works fine in NixOS! :P
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<qyliss> (assuming you remember to use gitFull and not git, which isn't great...)
<qyliss> . o O ( would be nice to stub out the git commands that aren't implemented in the normal git package telling users which package to install instead )
<etu> qyliss: I like that idea
<qyliss> I shall make it happen
<qyliss> Oh, has somebody done this already?
<qyliss> There's a thing in the package to detect unsupported commands, but it looks like it just rms them.
<gchristensen> rm?
<qyliss> It just deletes the commands from git
<qyliss> Which makes sense I guess
<{^_^}> #1751 (by jameshfisher, 5 years ago, closed): Which package provides file "foo"
<qyliss> Would have to wrap git
<qyliss> Or patch it
<qyliss> Probably not worth it :(
<eyJhb> srhb: how is the seagull situation at you?
<qyliss> wrapping wouldn't work well because you'd have to parse out options
<sphalerite> eyJhb: is there some sort of danish seagull plague I haven't heard of yet? x)
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<eyJhb> sphalerite: seagull plague yeah, don't know if it localised to Denmark, but they have started nesting... And SCREAMING... They started at around 03.30 AM, and haven't stopped since (4 PM)....
<eyJhb> And some idiot seagull bird has a nested on the rooftop of where I live, and basically tried to attack me when I tried entering my apartment
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<srhb> eyJhb: lol, I didn't realize that was a thing
<srhb> I live on Nørrebrogade in Cph, so every morning we do get some seagulls scrounging trash before the sweepers arrive, but it's not horrible, and it's a thing throughout most of the year. I'm too far from the harbour for it to be a permanent hassle though :P
<sphalerite> eyJhb: ooh yeah. So basically just seagulls being seagulls :p
<srhb> That sounds about right :P
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<eyJhb> srhb: I live 20-30 minutes from the nearest harbor, and it is still a problem. I have NO clue what they are doing here... :/ They are a annoyance most of the year, but especially now :/
<eyJhb> I have proposed just shooting them... If anybody wants some target practice, just come to Aalborg
<joepie91> this thread is great https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1143344195848925185 (make sure to start at the beginning...)
<gchristensen> nice
<sphalerite> eyJhb: I used to live near a pet food factory, far from any coast. Seagulls all the time.
<sphalerite> Glasgow also has seagulls, it's a bit closer to the sea though#
<gchristensen> ..joy
<eyJhb> sphalerite: My theory is, old ladies who thing they are sweet and feeding them...
<eyJhb> Seen it multiple times. Whole loafs of bread
<sphalerite> >_<
<eyJhb> I think I should aim my fictional shotgun against them instead
<sphalerite> that might not be such a good idea. Maybe talk to them and ask them nicely not to encourage the pests though :)
<joepie91> 31.4C inside
<joepie91> heat can be over now kthx
<eyJhb> sphalerite: joykill :(
<sphalerite> joepie91: weather: .oO(LOL PRANKED)
<joepie91> :(
<cransom> if anything, you could tell them that they are killing them. you teach them to be dependant on you, but more so, bread has 0 nutritional value and they get all sorts of medical problems eating junk food all the time.
<srhb> For a dying and malnutritioned species they seem to be doing quite well. xD
<cransom> yeah, it's curious how much longer humans have, for sure.
<gchristensen> LOL
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<sphalerite> hah
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> that seems bash.org-worthy
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<colemickens> had a eurail pass for 5 days and we've been through 4 countries? definitely in a callibration phase, lol
<gchristensen> oh cool
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<eyJhb> gchristensen: this is fucking gold - http://bash.org/?5273
<gchristensen> lol
<gchristensen> yeah that happens to the best of us
<eyJhb> Ohh there are some golden ones in the top, and waaay too many which seems staged
<eyJhb> `<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.`, thoughts?
<srhb> My IRC client has way better keybindings.
<srhb> But considering how long that's been up there it's probably from the mIRC days. I wonder if that is still a thing.
<srhb> aaaah, the 90s...
<srhb> (Not really, it was a horrible time!)
<eyJhb> mIRC? I think many still use that.... :p Well.. I don't remember much from it.. :p
<eyJhb> But sad there are no dates..
<joepie91> most recent mIRC release was 4 months ago
<joepie91> so :P
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<eyJhb> Is secound hand bashing on programming languages OK?
<gchristensen> probably shouldn't
<eyJhb> :( But I found a good Java one on bash.org
<cransom> there's a smart lightbulb in my ssid list that i'm pretty sure is mine (its not a common commercial ssid), but again, no idea where it's plugged in.
<lassulus> reminds me of: <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
<lassulus> from the old bash.org?top
<cransom> that was more impressive before wifi became prevalent.
<gchristensen> I've lost a rpi in my rats nest of my networking hovel
<gchristensen> (wired)
<eyJhb> lassulus: the one I just linked? :p
<lassulus> nobody reads more than 3 lines of history in this channel! :D
<eyJhb> Haha, I agree avD
<eyJhb> :D
<manveru> gchristensen: try this: https://i.imgur.com/yBjQxZZ.gifv
<gchristensen> haha
<samueldr> knot an issue
<gchristensen> I can't believe how big 15" laptops are. I totally forgot.
<lassulus> 15
<lassulus> ups
<srhb> mmm, bisecting systemd is fun...
<srhb> At least the build isn't horribly slow.
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<eyJhb> srhb: I still have nightmares about last bisect
<srhb> Well, that one was admittedly worse than what I'm doing :-P
<srhb> The only slightly uncomfortable thing is that I have to apply a patch for each step, and I haven't managed to make one that applies cleanly across the all of the bisect range.
<srhb> WTB AI for patches.
<qyliss> For that, I usually rebase the bisect range onto my patch
<srhb> qyliss: ... wow
<qyliss> works very well
<srhb> I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. I feel stupid now :)
<qyliss> as far as I can tell, nobody else ever has either :)
<srhb> xD
<qyliss> sometimes a rebase is annoying, so I cherry-pick the range instead
<srhb> Makes total sense. Thanks again!
<qyliss> it flattens merges though
<srhb> Of course, now I have roughly 1 step left xD
<srhb> Lesson to be learned: Complain early and often!
<qyliss> indeed :)
<Drakonis> rather
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<eyJhb> srhb: Like, for every step everything had to be rebuild almost.. God how I hate inkscape now... SOmehow, something, required inkscape, and I have no clue. I disabled almost everything I could in my conf
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<srhb> Ouch :P
<qyliss> a font?
<qyliss> (nix-store -q --tree /run/current-system could tell you)
<srhb> Probably needs a -qd in there first? Assuming it's not actually a runtime dep... Though, I suppose. :P
<eyJhb> Trying to put the whole tragic event behind me :( That is basically why I wanted to do `somecommand tellmethis inkscape`
<gchristensen> any rabbitmq fans 'round?
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<pie_> joepie91, hoping that i finally have some time since im on vacation this week to work on the rfc stuff again,
<pie_> somewhat related: what should "interfaces" look like for nix?
<pie_> its basically going to come down to convention from what im looking at currently, but thats one of the underlying concepts with what im doing i guess
<samueldr> pie_: maybe first inventory the existing interfaces?
<samueldr> often you work on a subject, which is either a path (contains a slash) or an attribute name
<samueldr> ideally those should stay consistent in other commands
<samueldr> so... you weren't talking about `nix` the command? :)
<pie_> no
<pie_> xD
<pie_> the "interface" here is {root :: Drv, withPackages :: scope:AttrSet -> root:Drv -> selector:(Set -> List) -> AttrSetDrv }
<gchristensen> this is starting to look like XML
<gchristensen> "scope" and "selectors" and "roots"
<pie_> gchristensen, oh no i hope not
<pie_> xD
<pie_> i hate this
<pie_> why did you say that
<pie_> th underlying concept is treees ok!
<gchristensen> I'm just saying XSLT is an interesting idea
<pie_> or something, also selectors existed separately, its just g = f: f scope
<pie_> XD
<pie_> [internal screaming]
<pie_> where f is (args: with args; [ some stuff ])
<pie_> i think the problem with xml might be that people think its data but with DTDs its actually programs, and xml is a pain in the ass programming language_
<pie_> ?
<pie_> the only reason i know anything about xml is because of one google ctf challenge </derali>
<gchristensen> DTDs is just structural definitions. XSLT makes it a language
<pie_> *derail
<pie_> idk man are you sure DTDs arent turing complete
* pie_ mumbles something about external entities
<gchristensen> "The notion of Turing-completeness does not apply to languages such as XML, HTML, JSON, YAML and S-expressions, because they are typically used to represent structured data, not describe computation."
<pie_> uhuh.
<pie_> typically.
<pie_> well anyway i dont actually have any real reason to hate on xml other than its probably a security nightmare
<gchristensen> not sure it is good to hate on it because of a "probably"
<gchristensen> at least XML doesn't have YAML's "arbitrary code execution" feature
<pie_> are you sure
<gchristensen> are you?
<pie_> no
<gchristensen> ok
<pie_> notationwise, not really sure why its better than sexpressions
<gchristensen> sure
<pie_> ugh, this isnt something i want to bikeshed right now actually
<gchristensen> namespaces are cool actually
<pie_> yeah?
<gchristensen> yeah
<Ralith> YAML's what now
<gchristensen> being able to combine 2 different data types' data in the same document
<Ralith> also: something something no file-format bashing
<gchristensen> aye
<pie_> your_data_structure_sucks_and_heres_why_dot_jaypeg
<Ralith> what does "combine" mean and how does it imply arbitrary code execution
<pie_> Ralith, that was about namespaves
<gchristensen> a bunch of yaml parsers will execute arbitrary commands
<gchristensen> and then they sprouted "safe_load" alternatives
<Ralith> "commands"?
<gchristensen> yes
<Ralith> what feature of yaml involves executing arbitrary code
<gchristensen> it is not standard yaml obviously
<Ralith> it was not obvious to me, on account of how you described it as YAML's feature
<gchristensen> fair enough
<Ralith> it certainly does seem to have poor quality implementations though
<gchristensen> (this was on purpose)
<gchristensen> Ruby and PHP have similar ones
<Ralith> that page seems to imply that evaluating arbitrary code is somehow necessary to fully implement yaml
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<gchristensen> for all practical purposes, executing arbitrary code was a feature in all YAML implementations for a while
<Ralith> why?! o_O
<gchristensen> I'm guessing poor judgement
<samueldr> or it might be poor judgement (in another way)
<Ralith> surely something must have led all these separate implementations to make the same horrible mistake
<gchristensen> it was popular
<samueldr> pyaml seems to describe their implementation as unsafe since the start
<gchristensen> I think RoR popularized it
<samueldr> with safe_load to be used instead
<gchristensen> they all use this ! syntax to describe "execute this stuff"
<samueldr> and it should have been fine for trusted inputs...
<samueldr> ... but then untrusted input exists, and when you have a hammer
<gchristensen> and why would "load" be dangerous
<samueldr> right, that also, maybe the hammer needs to be safe to use (no knife handle)
<samueldr> safe by default*
<samueldr> so yaml.load(..., with_arbitrary_code_exec: true)
<pie_> hmm knife handled hammers
<pie_> thats an idea
<Ralith> knife handles: putting the blood in bleeding-edge
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<gchristensen> not only is it a knife-as-a-handle, it is encased in rubber so you can't tell until you cut yourself
<gchristensen> oh I bet we can credit _why for this
<samueldr> here YAML means the stdlib YAML from ruby
<gchristensen> back in ~1h
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<samueldr> (this links the History section)
<samueldr> >> YAML tags are used to associate meta information with each node. In particular, each tag must specify the expected node kind (scalar, sequence, or mapping). Scalar tags must also provide a mechanism for converting formatted content to a canonical form for supporting equality testing. Furthermore, a tag may provide additional information such as the set of allowed content values for validation, a mechanism for tag resolution, or any other
<samueldr> data that is applicable to all of the tag’s nodes.
<samueldr> >> YAML tags are used to associate meta information with each node. In particular, each tag must specify the expected node kind (scalar, sequence, or mapping). Scalar tags must also provide a mechanism for converting formatted content to a canonical form for supporting equality testing. Furthermore, a tag may provide additional information such as the set of allowed content values for validation, a mechanism for tag resolution, or any other
<samueldr> data that is applicable to all of the tag’s nodes.
* samueldr taps microphone
<samueldr> sorry, my client wasn't receiving anymore, so I didn't get a back echo
<samueldr> AFAICT this section describes Marshal (ruby) or pickle (python) type operations