gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<drakonis1> i'd kill for pulseaudio's replacement to come out faster
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<Ralith> pipewire?
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<arianvp> Any nixers in Berlin?
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<gchristensen> I think Rok Garbas is in Berlin
<MichaelRaskin> I wonder what is a good time to catch some Mayflower (Munich) people after work day
<MichaelRaskin> I work at TUM for more than half a year now and still haven't …
<gchristensen> oh!
<gchristensen> sphalerite: ^
<MichaelRaskin> Well, I myself am not good at no-deadline coordination!
<sphalerite> MichaelRaskin: my colleagues were planning a meetup and to ask you to come along, I won't be there unfortunately
<sphalerite> but would definitely like to meet up on another occasion :)
<sphalerite> MichaelRaskin: you can also probably just come and visit any work evening if you want, just hit up fpletz, globin, WilliButz or myself
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<MichaelRaskin> I am not sure what is a good time in the evening, though
<MichaelRaskin> Do you know when is the meetup planned?
<sphalerite> no, just that it's during my holiday where I'm out of the country, sometime between the 27th of June and the 12th of July x) they were planning to invite you explicitly though so I'm sure you'll hear from them
<MichaelRaskin> Well, if it is 11th or 12th July there are minor details…
<sphalerite> good time during the evening: 5pm-late typically, just ask on the day
<MichaelRaskin> (like me being out of country on 12th and flying on 11th — although morning 11th is an option)
<MichaelRaskin> Aha, typical threshold around 5pm
<sphalerite> ah yes, that's slightly complicated :p
<sphalerite> I mean, you never know when fpletz is going to be in the office
<MichaelRaskin> Heh
<MichaelRaskin> And it is indeed Berg am Laim, right?
<Taneb> Is discourse.nixos.org down?
<ldlework> what's that
<Taneb> NixOS websforum
<MichaelRaskin> A moderately usable forum software with only slightly broken mailing list mode support that we seem to be currently using as a mailing list
<MichaelRaskin> Seems up for me right now
<Taneb> Weird
<MichaelRaskin> Country / ISP ?
<Taneb> UK, I don't know what my ISP here is
<Taneb> Virgin Media, apparently
<MichaelRaskin> Hm, I have ways to check from Germany, Luxembourg or Russia. I can compare mtr route traces with you if you want.
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<Taneb> Aaargh, I can't connect to cache.nixos.org either so I can't get traceroute
<MichaelRaskin> mtr is better than traceroute, I think
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<MichaelRaskin> Well, you can build with fallback…
<MichaelRaskin> Hmm
<MichaelRaskin> Can you try DNS resolution of nixos.org ?
<Taneb> ...discourse has suddenly started working again
<Taneb> Today I feel is going to be a frustrating day
<Taneb> nixos.org resolves to
<MichaelRaskin> Well, depends if it was a temporry glitch, and which kind of glitch
<Taneb> Still can't access cache.nixos.org
<MichaelRaskin> What does it resolve to?
<MichaelRaskin> Same as dualstack.v2.shared.global.fastly.net. ?
<MichaelRaskin> For me:
<Taneb> $ nslookup cache.nixos.org
<Taneb> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
<MichaelRaskin> Pity
<Taneb> (the fastly url does resolve)
<MichaelRaskin> Hmmm
<MichaelRaskin> And if you ask some public DNS resolver like
<Taneb> It resolves in that case
<MichaelRaskin> Hm, on #nixos someone has the same problem…
<MichaelRaskin> (which doesn't reproduce for me)
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<sphalerite> MichaelRaskin: no, it's Laim, which is the other end of Munich :p
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<MichaelRaskin> Ah right
<MichaelRaskin> I remember it is west and before Pasing
<MichaelRaskin> and keyword is Laim
<MichaelRaskin> so effectively I remember correct place, fine
<MichaelRaskin> Ah right, I actually pass Berg am Laim in my daily commute (which is to the East)
<MichaelRaskin> I just never need to actually react to it
<sphalerite> hehe, yes, west before Pasing is right
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<vdemeester> infinisil drakonis: yeah I need to update the module indeed..
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<infinisil> vdemeester: Context?
<vdemeester> infinisil: sorry, for the podman module (and the lack of configurability of it)
<vdemeester> (sorry answering a ping way way back)
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<infinisil> Ah, #54925
<infinisil> {^_^}: Bad bot
<infinisil> Well actually it's probably my fault, the bot isn't running..
<infinisil> #54925
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/54925 (by vdemeester, 20 weeks ago, open): Add a programs.podman module
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<vdemeester> indeed
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<infinisil> Migrating my zfs datasets to be encrypted is trickier than I anticipated
<infinisil> I don't have enough space on this machine to just create a new duplicated dataset with everything encrypted, so I need to boot into a stick and do it from that
<infinisil> But once I encrypted it, I need to actually be able to boot again, which means enabling zfs.requestEncryptionCredentials
<infinisil> But I can't easily rebuild my system from a live disk because it needs to fetch/build all kinds of things if I don't have my /nix/store
<infinisil> So what I've done now is enabled requestEncryptionCredentials before booting into the live disk, but without activating that generation
<infinisil> Such that I can just boot into the latest one after migrating and it should Just Work (tm)
<infinisil> Or not, I'll see in a couple hours once my data is moved back..
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<infinisil> And getting the command line arguments right isn't that simple either
<infinisil> The errors zfs reports are sometimes pretty bad..
<aanderse> infinisil: good luck. don't destroy your data :)
<infinisil> I do have backups of it on 2 different disks now, so that shouldn't happen
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<elvishjerricco> infinisil: Why couldn’t you rebuild the system from the live cd?
<elvishjerricco> Also, if you didn’t have space to copy to a new dataset, how did you manage to encrypt it?
<infinisil> elvishjerricco: I still need to move all my data, and I might as well move the nix store with it while I'm on it
<elvishjerricco> I don’t see how that creates a problem
<infinisil> And I have a nixops + whatever setup
<infinisil> Yeah I could probably have done that too, but this seemed simpler
<infinisil> elvishjerricco: I used an external disk, copy everything over to that one, delete everything on the internal one, then copy over from the disk while encrypting
<elvishjerricco> Ahh
<elvishjerricco> I need to stop using NixOps. It’s really meant more for a cattle type setup than a pet type setup.
<infinisil> Yeah same..
<elvishjerricco> I just don’t have an alternative for effectively managing secrets.
<joepie91> morph looked like an interesting alternative
<elvishjerricco> I’d rather have them deployed as a part of activation, pulling from my password store.
<infinisil> Oh that looks interesting
<elvishjerricco> Has the same fundamental problem w.r.t. secrets
<elvishjerricco> they have to be deployed by the morph tool, so you can’t really do unsupervised boot if you want them in a tmpfs
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<elvishjerricco> Also I think it doesn’t delete obsolete secrets, just like NixOps
<infinisil> Time to write our own tool then!
<infinisil> Or extend morph with this
<elvishjerricco> I think nixos-rebuild is all I need, and I just need an activation script that pulls secrets from my password store and does something like /etc to manage obsolete ones
<elvishjerricco> And I’d want to use that PR which switched nixos-rebuild to use the Nix 2.0 commands, because pretty :P
<infinisil> Hm, actually that wouldn't work for me
<infinisil> I need to be able to have node interdepend on each other
<elvishjerricco> How so?
<infinisil> Like, my desktop knowing what ports my server uses for services
<infinisil> I can do that with nixops with the `nodes` argument
<infinisil> Although actually, I refactored almost everything that used `nodes` out already
<infinisil> I could probably roll without that
<elvishjerricco> Yea you could just factor it all out into separate files. I have a file that just has an attr set outlining the tinc information for all my systems, and they just import that on their own.
<infinisil> Yeah I did something like this for the ips
<joepie91> yeah, I do the exact same for my tinc setup
<infinisil> Which specifies preferred ip addresses from any to any host
<elvishjerricco> Then again, it is nice to have a single file with the configs for all the systems. And it’s not like its hard to do what nixos-rebuild does manually.
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<samueldr> clever: 19mbps upload :o so jelly, I can only get 10mbps unless I pay way more :/
<clever> samueldr: 19mbps is with the laptop with, on the desktop, its 300 up...
<clever> laptop wifi*
<samueldr> ah
<samueldr> yeah, unless I go with bell, and pay more, I won't have symmetric upload speeds :(
<clever> its not symetric here either
<samueldr> with the cable operator, resellers have the same packages, and it's locked to 50mbps upload max (with 940mbps download) or 30mbps up with 100mbps down is the next upgrade
<samueldr> oh
<clever> it only looks symetric because the wifi is the bottleneck :P
<clever> samueldr: https://beta.speedtest.net/result/8353169397 is my desktop
<samueldr> I assumed you had 300mbps down
<clever> 515 down, 331 up
<samueldr> our bell (not alliant) packages are symmetric for fibre access
<clever> the wifi tops out at 18
<clever> bell here
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<PyroLagus> i'll be damned
<ashkitten> if you insist
<PyroLagus> :D
<clever> now to see how badly i brick my nas by enabling hostapd...
<gchristensen> may your packets route true
<joepie91> lol
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<ashkitten> i was like, why is my memory usage creeping up so much on this server and then i remembered it has zfs
<clever> Jun 20 14:14:05 nas systemd[1]: sys-subsystem-net-devices-enp3s0.device: Job sys-subsystem-net-devices-enp3s0.device/start failed with result 'timeout'.
<ashkitten> it's the classic example of a user thinking all their ram is being used up by cache, except it *is*
<clever> this has been anoying for a while
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<clever> 2: enp4s0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc mq state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
<clever> wait a second...
<clever> why is it 4 now?
<ashkitten> anyways i should definitely move this mastodon instance away from docker but i don't even know if i'm gonna keep using it at all
<ashkitten> might switch to pleroma
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<ashkitten> someone made a very nice docker image with scripts for pleroma
<ashkitten> shouldn't take nearly as long to build the image since it's, yk, not a gigantic steaming pile of rails
<PyroLagus> runc looks pretty nice
<clever> ok, so thats rather anoying
<clever> my predictable interface names, are not predictable
<clever> enp3s0 randomly turned into enp4s0
<ar> clever: did you (un)plug any other pcie devices?
<clever> ar: nope
<clever> 02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9462 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
<clever> 04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros QCA8171 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10)
<clever> ar: and checking lspci, there is a gap where 3 would have been
<ar> clever: checked dmesg? maybe kernel found something funny on 03:00
<ashkitten> ugh i wish docker was more usable for mastodon... more intermediate containers might help, lol
<clever> -- Logs begin at Tue 2019-06-11 02:42:02 ADT, end at Thu 2019-06-20 14:22:59 ADT. --
<clever> Jun 11 04:46:29 nas dhcpcd[2090]: enp4s0: fe80::230:48ff:fec5:d2df not a router (fe80::230:48ff:fec5:d2df)
<clever> ar: its been line this for 9 days, and the journal doesnt go back any further
<clever> except, zfs ....
<clever> naspool/root@zfs-auto-snap_daily-2019-06-14-00h00 572M 293G 293G 1.41x
<clever> i have a snapshot from 6 days ago
<clever> [root@nas:~]# journalctl --root=/.zfs/snapshot/zfs-auto-snap_daily-2019-06-14-00h00/ -u dhcpcd
<clever> Jun 01 12:43:06 nas dhcpcd[3670]: enp4s0: IAID 99:7a:80:21
<clever> ar: nope, problem has been present for ~20 days
<clever> uptime is only 12, so it started ages ago
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<infinisil> So it didn't work, but I have no idea what's the problem because plymouth prevents me from seeing any errors..
<infinisil> Can't ESC either
<infinisil> Ah! I bet you its plymouth that prevents me from seeing the password dialog lol
<infinisil> Yeah that was it
<infinisil> I'll take it lol, people booting my laptop won't even realize they need a password xD
<samueldr> does plymouth go away by changing VT?
<samueldr> like back and forth
<infinisil> How do I do that?
<samueldr> alt+F2 then alt+F1
<MichaelRaskin> Ouch, just how many Firefox zero-days are there in a row?
<samueldr> (ctrl needed only on X11)
<infinisil> samueldr: Lemme reboot and try..
<samueldr> I'm not sure it should
<samueldr> but I think some fancy splash does, from past experience way back when with other distros
<infinisil> samueldr: Nope those keys don't do anything
<infinisil> And neither does ESC which I think should normally work
<samueldr> hm, weird
<samueldr> that'll be annoying if for any reason something fails
<infinisil> It seems like somebody thought of preventing this problem
<infinisil> zfs calls the password prompt in postDeviceCommands (without any special priority)
<samueldr> oh, I think I can guess why,
<samueldr> oh
<samueldr> maybe not
<samueldr> my idea was for luksroot
<samueldr> though maybe `zfs load-key` does something similar
* infinisil tries to find out how these phases are connected
<samueldr> yeah, found it, that's why I thought "maybe `zfs load-key` does something similar"
<samueldr> as in, somehow hooks exclusively to the input
<infinisil> I could actually just look at the init script
<infinisil> If I knew where to find it..
<samueldr> in the initrd
<samueldr> (and well, some other artifacts from the build in store)
<samueldr> nixos/modules/system/boot/stage-1-init.sh
<infinisil> Hm, but where does it end up in /run/current-system?
<infinisil> /init seems to be stage 2
<samueldr> I don't think it does, since it's in the initrd
<samueldr> stage-2 is after your devices are mounted
<infinisil> Oh I see
<samueldr> there are two inits
<infinisil> And the initrd is just a binary blob
<samueldr> cpio archive
<samueldr> (but yeah)
<infinisil> Ah yeah so plymouth gets started in preLVMCommands
<infinisil> Which happens just before postDeviceCommands
<infinisil> Now the question is, who's wrong here
<infinisil> (Or is the abstraction wrong)
<infinisil> Putting the zfs load-key in preLVMCommands might be the right thing to do
<samueldr> what if ZFS is on an LVM device?
<samueldr> probably shouldn't, but still :/
<infinisil> Hm yeah
<samueldr> in the initrd stuff for mobile-nixos I solved that by using absolute ordering for every "snippets" for /init
<samueldr> and the absolute ordering is exported as integers on names
<samueldr> so I can cleanly insert something, and give some leeway between them so users can do funny stuff
<infinisil> samueldr: Hm, so whenever you add something you need to think about where it would fit in for all scenarios?
<samueldr> yeah
<infinisil> I'm not sure this works for when you have things that could be ordered either way
<samueldr> which means I'm probably wrong at some point
<ashkitten> having a dedicated server is pretty great tbh
<samueldr> but probably easier to manage than pre/post step names
<samueldr> I mean, it can also be switched around programatically if something needs it
<infinisil> I could for example put a luks container in zpool, but I could also put a zpool in a luks container
<infinisil> I think
<infinisil> I'll just turn off plymouth for now and open an issue for it
<samueldr> that's illegal, the storage police will find you and fine you
<samueldr> though yeah, you're likely right that it's a case where it's technically possible for both situation to happen
<samueldr> and the solution is likely not to have a "preSomeImplementation" (and post) hooks, but something that can... somehow... order itself to open things with dependencies
<samueldr> e.g., my ext4 on a luks on an lvm in a zpool
<samueldr> from a 2 seconds overview, that looks likely to be a way to do it
<clever> samueldr: one min
<clever> system.activationScripts.users = stringAfter [ "stdio" ]
<clever> samueldr: the type for this option, is an attributeset and i think textClosureMap is the magic to make stringAfter work
<clever> samueldr: then you just need to before/after each thing properly
<infinisil> clever: The stringAfter stuff is like half on an implementation of DAGs
<infinisil> I'd prefer rycee's dag.nix stuff over that
<clever> ah
<ashkitten> clever: i wonder if i install the monitoring software that kimsufi presumably installs by default on templated oses, if it'll stop being annoying
<ashkitten> i just don't know what software that is
<clever> there is also some toposort stuff in the fileSystems. area
<samueldr> ashkitten: "stop being annoying"?
<ashkitten> samueldr: the dashboard keeps prompting me to install an os
<clever> samueldr: the management console wants him to install an os
<samueldr> oh
<ashkitten> her
<samueldr> eh, I never open the management console :)
<clever> samueldr: because she skipped the wizard and installed nixos from the rescue console
<samueldr> what's there to manage, with nixos?
<ashkitten> yeah i suppose
<samueldr> though I have to be fair that I did have an OS installed beforehand, so it might be different in my case
<ashkitten> it's annoying me now but if i leave it alone for a while i'll forget
<clever> fileSystems = filter utils.fsNeededForBoot config.system.build.fileSystems;
<clever> infinisil: hmmm, where did that come from!
<infinisil> Hmm yes the sneaky utils module
<clever> /home/clever/apps/nixpkgs/nixos/modules/tasks/filesystems.nix: system.build.fileSystems = fileSystems;
<joepie91> infinisil: where do I learn about this utils module
* joepie91 takes notes for docs
<clever> there it is
<clever> { config, lib, pkgs, utils, ... }:
<clever> wait, what?
<joepie91> oh, it's in lib
<joepie91> not sure how I didn't see it before
<joepie91> thanks!
<infinisil> Nope
<infinisil> It's in *nixos*/lib
<joepie91> *oh*
<joepie91> right
<joepie91> well that explains why :D
<infinisil> Which is a lib that's only accessible through the utils argument in a NixOS module
<clever> samueldr: found the toposort
<infinisil> I think that exists because somebody felt bad for putting NixOS specific library functions in nixpkgs/lib
<infinisil> Probably :)
<samueldr> at one point the nixos repo was split, infinisil
<infinisil> Or that
<clever> samueldr: i think you could modify the initrd stuff somehow, to take a list of objects, with names and dependencies, and then run it thru toposort to apply an order to it
<clever> samueldr: and then reduce them down to strings
<samueldr> you think? you're not sure? :)
<clever> samueldr: it would be a bit of a redesign of the whole initialization stuff
<samueldr> yeah, definitely
<samueldr> that's the approach I used
<samueldr> but it does have the issue of not being as stable sorted as topoSort
<infinisil> I'd prefer the toposort approach due to its flexibility
<samueldr> if I have two things ordered for the same name, they can be ordered in any order
<samueldr> infinisil: it's likely I would too
<infinisil> And giving names to phases makes a lot of sense and is more obvious to see than numbers
<samueldr> though, how are you ordering them, if not by prefixing them with a number?
<infinisil> Not sure what you mean
<clever> samueldr: you give the toposort function a function to compare 2 elements, and a list of elements
<clever> samueldr: and you could then have a list of depdencies on each element
<samueldr> ah, I was stuck in thinking of `hasPrefix` was the way to do it
<clever> so importing the pool on root1 and root2, requires that luksOpen has created root1 and root2
<clever> hasPrefix is just one way to compare a list of strings
<clever> so it mounts / before /home
<samueldr> yeah
<clever> but it could be a list of attrsets, containing names and deps
<infinisil> It can be anything!
<infinisil> Except apples and oranges, because everybody knows you can't compare those
<samueldr> yeah one's a round fruit the other's a r̠̭̦̜̩͖̲o̰̱̬̤u̦͡n̴͉̗d ̭̬͉̩̯͡f̗̫̯̯̱r̰̭͇̦͖̘ų̲̻i̫t̗̟̯̩̳̪͓͝
<samueldr> (sorry)
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<samueldr> toposorting on dependencies could allow (but hard to do it right) some concurrency in early initrd I guess
<clever> samueldr: just admit defeat and put haskell in the initrd!! https://github.com/cleverca22/nix-tests/blob/master/haskell-init/hello_world.hs
<clever> samueldr: give in to the dark side
<samueldr> clever: just make haskell cross-compile right to armv6 and armv7 in nixpkgs :)
<samueldr> (if it doesn't already)
<samueldr> then just have me learn it :)
<MichaelRaskin> I have glibc in my initrd, but I still don't put SBCL there…
<clever> 3 ghc = pkgs.pkgsCross.muslpi.haskellPackages.ghcWithPackages (p: with p; [ directory split transformers mtl linux-mount ] );
<clever> MichaelRaskin: this haskell init project is ~2mb
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<infinisil> Being out of the apple garden makes me realized how closed they really are
<infinisil> Just now I'm sorting through my old movie collection
<infinisil> And I can't play half of them on Linux because they're DRM protected
<infinisil> Because I bought them from iTunes
<clever> infinisil: and now the anti-piracy measures are forcing you to pirate things you legally own!
<clever> pirates always win :P
<infinisil> Yeah lol
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<MichaelRaskin> Not really!
<MichaelRaskin> They promised me if I would pirate movies, the movie production will die.
<MichaelRaskin> So I sometimes even did, without watching them, though
<MichaelRaskin> And?
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<ashkitten> so scary to reboot a server after doing extremely major changes that could potentially make it not boot >,,<
<ashkitten> i just downgraded to 19.03 because i realized i was on unstable accidentally
<ashkitten> luckily i did realize i would need to enable zfs unstable
<ashkitten> honestly the fact that nixos can do that kind of downgrade in the first place is kinda wild
<ashkitten> and to come out of it entirely clean
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<__monty__> Downgrading's just upgrading to more thoroughly tested software : )
<samueldr> thoug the transition from new to old migh be less tested than the inverse :/
<samueldr> (when it's stateful)
<__monty__> The state is a lie!
<__monty__> nn, peoples
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