<ashkitten>
if i had to pick a scripting language i hate the least, it'd probably be ruby
<ashkitten>
so it's always good to see improvement there
<samueldr>
ashkitten: great! mobile nixos boots using the scripting language you hate the least, probably!
<ashkitten>
:D
<ashkitten>
approximate praise is the best i can do for scripting langs unfortunately
* samueldr
finished ripping a small band-aid
<samueldr>
the QEMU "device" is dead
<samueldr>
long live the uefi generic "device"
<ashkitten>
nice!
<bbigras>
4s cachipfs publish ./result 8604,72s user 319,66s system 21% cpu 11:39:12,81 total
<samueldr>
now I need to get back to the GUI bindings and fix/reimplement inputs using libinput
<samueldr>
so I can get the calibration matrix in-use and use mobile nixos on an x86_64 cherry trail tablet
<samueldr>
(it currently works well... except for the fact the touch screen is not mapped right, so inputting the passphrase requires a keyboard
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<MichaelRaskin>
ashkitten: does Julia qualify as a scripting language, I wonder?
<ashkitten>
i can't remember, does that use llvm jit or am i thinking of something else
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes it does
<MichaelRaskin>
And a bit slow on the startup
<ashkitten>
eh, i don't know whether i'd qualify that as a scripting language
<ashkitten>
since it technically uses a compiler similarly to other compiled langs that use an llvm backend
<MichaelRaskin>
REPL, optional typing, a bit of support for running external processes…
<MichaelRaskin>
(Well, the same can be said of Common Lisp)
<JJJollyjim>
javascript in webkit also uses an llvm backend
<ashkitten>
i think my rule is not very hard though. i don't like scripting langs because often they have really bad undetectable edge cases that only show up at runtime
<lovesegfault>
got some wool pants today
<lovesegfault>
finally my butt is not cold
<ashkitten>
that's not the only reason, but a good portion of it
<lovesegfault>
why did I come to the northern hemisphere
<lovesegfault>
should've stayed where it's warm
<MichaelRaskin>
As computers get faster, you can afford using an actual language (at least if it supports optional typing) as a scripting language
<JJJollyjim>
MichaelRaskin: why do faster computers help with that? because compilation is faster?
<ashkitten>
i wonder if llvm jit'd rust would work
<MichaelRaskin>
Of course, ergonomics of some aspects of Shell still keeps me writing quite a bit of POSIX Shell / Bash
<MichaelRaskin>
Rust might be too heavy
<ashkitten>
though i hear the llvm jit is actually not very good
<lovesegfault>
Well, there's MIRI
<lovesegfault>
not JIT though
<MichaelRaskin>
Both for writing (all the types) and for compiling (all the borrows)
<lovesegfault>
Just InTerpretation: JIT
<ashkitten>
MichaelRaskin: honestly, i used powershell for some scripting once and it was pretty nice compared to any bash-alike
<lovesegfault>
I feel like PSH is a bit of a wasted opportunity
<ashkitten>
the naming convention is really... hard to grasp
<lovesegfault>
if you're going to reinvent the wheel, make it real nice
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, I actually learned Bash well before Powershell existed… and the nice tricks I now expect if I am not using a full multiple dispatch language (Julia / Common Lisp) are probably a bit shell-specific
<lovesegfault>
psh is better than bash, but not by much :/
<ashkitten>
but honestly? aside from naming conventions, powershell is very nice
<MichaelRaskin>
Does «naming convention» include long names?
<ashkitten>
not necessarily
<ashkitten>
i don't object to long names, but powershell feels like it uses them for the sake of them being long
<ashkitten>
it's worse than java
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, if it competes with ergonomics of writing Bash in REPL, it'd better be terse
<ashkitten>
agreed!
<MichaelRaskin>
If it does not, welcome to competing with Julia on language quality, and … I do not believe PowerShell would win
<ashkitten>
though i think modern line editing can account for a lot of the ergonomics
<ashkitten>
tab completion is a godsend
<energizer>
i dont think bash is a strong competitor in the repl space
<energizer>
or any space
<lovesegfault>
bash is a strong competitor in the availability space
<energizer>
yes that
<energizer>
but if we're on nixos, everything is available
<MichaelRaskin>
Ergonomics of writing pipelines for tasks suitable for pipelines just blows everything else out of the water
<MichaelRaskin>
Provided you already know enough shell not to shoot yourself in the foot five times per lines
<MichaelRaskin>
But I do
<lovesegfault>
yes, pipelines are the perfect tools for some jobs
<JJJollyjim>
sometimes there are Other Computers :(
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't use NixOS, but computers I care about happen to have Nix installed
<MichaelRaskin>
Including the computer of a PhD student I collaborate with…
<MichaelRaskin>
(Well, «happen»)
<energizer>
i don't know how to avoid shooting myself in the foot, so i restrict myself to the simplest bash features and even that goes wrong pretty often
<ashkitten>
i've shot myself in the foot enough that i ran out of bullets a long time ago. always treat a footgun as loaded, though.
<lovesegfault>
I learned bash when I was maintaining gentoo packages
<lovesegfault>
it was really good experience
<lovesegfault>
also with shellcheck these days it's much easier to write bash
<lovesegfault>
that tool is a godsend
<MichaelRaskin>
I have written some thousand-liners in Bash (the first one for availability/language stability reasons, yes)
<MichaelRaskin>
So _now_ ergonomics of REPL-ing pipelines in Bash is just perfect for me
<ashkitten>
speaking of packaging, when i look at all the stuff archlinux has packaged i can't help but envy some of the freedom they have to just let things build themselves with internet access and impurities and all that nonsense... it's bad, but it's kinda convenient bad
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: do they have that many more pkgs than us?
<lovesegfault>
I think it's a slim difference now
<ashkitten>
no, but they have some tougher packages that we haven't managed to get working
<lovesegfault>
such as? (I believe you, ofc, just curious)
<JJJollyjim>
i assumed they had less (not counting AUR)
<lovesegfault>
JJJollyjim: I'm counting AUR
<ashkitten>
i can't remember off the top of my head... i know their element-desktop includes seshat, heh
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<samueldr>
remember kids: reproduce the issue _before_ working on a fix
<pie_>
,locate libpthread.so.0
<pie_>
samueldr: and also remember, try updating first
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: glibc, glibc_multi, graalvm8-ce, graalvm11-ce, glibc_memusage
<samueldr>
pie_: irrelevant in my case :)
<infinisil>
Also, remember to search for issues first
<samueldr>
also irrelevant in my case :)
<pie_>
someone please for the love of god make a checklist
<pie_>
i need it dot spongebob dot gif
<samueldr>
but yes, if it's a project with other contributors, do that first, check issues, PRs and update just in case
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<infinisil>
Um
<infinisil>
- Try updating
<samueldr>
I don't think anyone would have fixed a mobile nixos issue without me knowing :)
<infinisil>
- Try restarting
<infinisil>
- Search for existing issues
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<infinisil>
- Reproduce the issue
<infinisil>
- Fix the issue
<pie_>
i thik one of these days i might have to give up on diagnosing issues, because half the time i just cant figure it out
<samueldr>
(moving elsewhere) but this is fun, the issue is reproducible on hydra, but does not affect my setup!
<pie_>
even if ive already fixed it i still want a diagnosis...
<infinisil>
That's.. something!
<infinisil>
Sometimes when I don't have enough time to get a MWE I'm not sure if it's even worth reporting an issue, because it might not be very helpful
<infinisil>
Ah: "You may have been told to include an MCVE – Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable examples is what they were referring to. MCVE was also the former name of the page you're reading now, occasionally misspelled as MVCE, before it was renamed to Minimal, Reproducible Example (sometimes called “reprex”, “min-reprex”, “repro” or just “example”)."
<pie_>
i keep fantasizing about postin fully scripted repros with nix but most of the time it doesnt get that far
<pie_>
iirc ive done it like, once
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