gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<jackdk> EICAR is an executable .com file too, isn't it?
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<jackdk> worldofpeace++ : the ZHF issue has the feeling of a big prerelease party about it. It's a good issue.
<{^_^}> worldofpeace's karma got increased to 67
<worldofpeace> jackdk: TOTALLY, it's always a party with me 😁
<joepie91> jackdk: is it? I don't know
<{^_^}> #80379 (by worldofpeace, 2 hours ago, open): ZERO Hydra Failures 20.03
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<drakonis1> that's one pleasant surprise for enabling nixos to have additional support.
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<gchristensen> the major problem with me using pgtk emacs is compiling it
<cole-h> What is 'pgtk'?
<gchristensen> a pure-gtk implementation of emacs' gui, to make it render well with wayland
<gchristensen> oops
<cole-h> I think I love you
<cole-h> Got a nix expression to share so I don't have to write my own?
<gchristensen> sure, I think qyliss wrote it originally
<cole-h> ❤️
<gchristensen> not sure if that smell is my legs cooking or the banana bread in the oven
<cole-h> I didn't know... cooked human legs smelled similar to banana bread...
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<cole-h> gchristensen: Building pgtk right now, thanks for the tip. Interested to see how well it works :)
<gchristensen> :)
<cole-h> `nix-top` is pretty nifty, being able to see what's building and how
<cole-h> Thank goodness for FF reader mode
<cole-h> 150 char long lines :puke:
<drakonis1> dark raeder is real good if you arent using that one
<cole-h> I am, and it is very good. The colors are almost always spot on, too
<cole-h> No more real need for Stylus anymore
<colemickens> drakonis1: that makes me think of guix+shepard
<drakonis1> its good stuff.
<drakonis1> i'm back on nix, mind you, because it has spent more time on the cooker
<drakonis1> so much to be taken from it
<cole-h> gchristensen: OMG THIS IS WONDERFUL
<cole-h> gchristensen+++++++++++
<cole-h> Wayland-native Emacs is all I need. I can die happy now.
<ashkitten> qyliss++
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 33
<cole-h> (gchristensen++)
<drakonis1> i envy y'all with your waylands
<cole-h> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 210
<cole-h> I'll get there eventually
<cole-h> Enjoy all those pings
<ashkitten> drakonis1: stuck on nvidia with me?
<cole-h> I'm on Nvidia, too, though
<drakonis1> yeah
<cole-h> Just use nouveau :-)
<gchristensen> it isn't perfect, but it is pretty good :)
<ashkitten> cole-h: i do gaming on my computer so i can't use nouveau
<drakonis1> and kill off all my perf? no can do.
<drakonis1> no cuda here
<cole-h> ashkitten: I have a passthrough VM for my gaming needs :P
<drakonis1> i think there's no vulkan driver for nouveau right now
<cole-h> That is correcet
<ashkitten> cole-h: i don't even want to deal with windows in a vm lol
<cole-h> One of its shortcomings
<cole-h> s/correcet/correct
<drakonis1> i'm still waiting on nvidia to release the power management firmware and raise the stakes on supporting their hardware on linux
<cole-h> Sweet, I just got a fifo fault and now sway is dead
<drakonis1> sweet.
<ashkitten> drakonis1: have they stated they'd do that?
<cole-h> At least jack didn't die, so I can still jam out
<drakonis1> they have a pending talk regarding increasing support for linux
<ashkitten> drakonis1: doesn't mean anything until they say it explicitly
<cole-h> So, what do you guys do when your keyboard doesn't respond to switching VTs?
<drakonis1> they actually did.
<drakonis1> "We'll report up-to-the-minute developments on NVIDIA's status and activities, and possibly (depending on last-minute developments) a few future plans and directions, regarding our contributions to Linux kernel; supporting Nouveau (the open source kernel driver for NVIDIA GPUs, that is in the Linux kernel), including signed firmware behavior, documentation, and patches; and NVIDIA kernel
<drakonis1> drivers."
<ashkitten> hm
<ashkitten> well i'll believe it when it happens
<cole-h> ^
<drakonis1> same.
<drakonis1> its probably born out of a desire to not be driven out of the linux market by amd
<drakonis1> cant wait for it tho
<drakonis1> sadly its just a cool month way.
<drakonis1> s/way/away
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<cole-h> gchristensen: I guess one downside is it doesn't appear to like emacsclient
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<qyliss> gchristensen: oh wow, yeah, I just updated pgtk for the first time in ages and it's so much better
<drakonis> https://github.com/nrdxp/nixflk this is real neat.
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<cole-h> worldofpeace: Spooky -- I got the email of your comment, but it's not showing up on the PR
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<eyJhb> I should unfollow ZHF, there is a lot of emails
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<pie_[bnc]> holy crap what happened to the github notifications view
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<pie_[bnc]> omg theres a "participating" filter! great!
<pie_[bnc]> ive been using commented:myname and author:myname or stuff like that
<pie_[bnc]> "Notifications Beta" aha
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<andi-> It reminded me of outlook 365 where they clearly had text on the screen I just wasn't able to comprehent it since it was all tiny, grey on white etc..
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<evanjs> but yeah the contributor/uniq package count on repology for nix -- 1 to 34 :D -- 43030/1250
<evanjs> AUR in comparison -- 8683/22772 -> 2.62 to 1
<evanjs> 1 to 34 and 1 to 2.62. Man I am still tired. Rx vyvanse and kickstart aside :D
<gchristensen> good ol' vyvanse
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<evanjs> one of the reasons I'll have to put my trip to Japan off for idk how long :/ Concerta is the only thing allowed there AFAIK re ADD meds and etc http://www.associatedkyotoprogram.org/bringing-medications-japan/
<DigitalKiwi> it's only illegal if they catch you
<Taneb> But if you get caught you can be detained for weeks
<DigitalKiwi> well the first rule is don't get caught
<Taneb> Easiest way to do that is to not do the thing
<DigitalKiwi> buncha normies out here jeez
<emily> as a drug taker and law breaker I would recommend against trying to smuggle stimulants into japan unless you want to be behind bars for the next few decades.
<emily> evanjs: fwiw, if concerta would work for you then your psych would probably be willing to prescribe it for the duration of a trip. i hear you need paperwork signed in triplicate for it though
<emily> and might have to fill the prescription locally rather than taking it on the plane? not sure
<evanjs> emily: oh for sure. I was on it when I was younger so it's not a _terrible_ option, but blah
<evanjs> either concerta or straterra reallllly messed with my appetite :D like I felt sick just thinking about food. Might be different now, though
<eyJhb> Not sure which kind of drug taker emily is now
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<emily> eyJhb: :)
* emily isn't actually on stimulants, though she probably should be.
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<elvishjerricco> Other than file systems that include their own device manager, is there anyway to solve the write hole issue with software RAID-like systems on Linux? Even lvmraid doesn't have a solution since it's just mdraid underneath.
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<gchristensen> elvishjerricco: isn't the write whole a problem only on RAID-5 for filesystems which don't have atomic updates (like the zfs block pointer)?
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: No. E.g. ext4 with journaling can *almost* finish writing its data such that only some devices in the raid device don't have the complete write. Since it writes in-place, this leads to the write hole.
<gchristensen> "whole" *shame*
<elvishjerricco> CoW file systems would be closer to safe, but the uber / super block could still experience write hole
<gchristensen> but still the write has happened or not happened
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: I guess you'll only experience problems with CoW if you fail to finish writing a new uber / super block before another improper shutdown, since then your array may still return the old new block, which would point to corrupt data at that point
<gchristensen> it would not point to corrupt data, though
<gchristensen> because the old block pointer is still valid
<elvishjerricco> It would
<gchristensen> why would it be corrupt?
<elvishjerricco> start with uber block 1, totally safe and persistent
<elvishjerricco> try to write uber block 2, but fail halfway and only complete the write on some disks
<elvishjerricco> boot back up, the system experiences write hole and gets back uber block 1. This is fine since the data is there
<elvishjerricco> Attempt to write a new uber block 2', fail part way through.
<elvishjerricco> Now your uber blocks are a mix of 1, 2, and 2'
<elvishjerricco> The data from uber block two is likely to have been overwritten in the transaction corresponding to 2'
<elvishjerricco> If you read from uber block 2, you'll find corruption
<elvishjerricco> which is totally possible because of write holes
<gchristensen> I'm not sure this is true ...
<elvishjerricco> What's the error in that hypothetical?
<gchristensen> I'm still thinking through it :P
<elvishjerricco> ZFS is only able to beat this because it can check the uber blocks of ALL physical disks and figure out what the deal is
<elvishjerricco> I guess you could do the same with mdraid if you read your uber block from physical disks in stead of the mdraid device
<gchristensen> I don't think the uberblock is written at all until all the data in its tree is already written
<elvishjerricco> that's correct
<elvishjerricco> But if 2' wrote data, it will likely have overwritten data from 2
<elvishjerricco> So getting the 2 uberblock on next boot will let you read 2' data instead
<gchristensen> and it writes 4 copies per disk, 2 at the start and 2 at the end, and it picks the highest txg id of them all
<elvishjerricco> Yea, and refuses to write any new uberblocks until all the disks are synced
<elvishjerricco> which isn't guaranteed with mdraid because writehole
<gchristensen> gotcha
<gchristensen> traditional filesystems / raid are scary :P
<elvishjerricco> Yea, though this is an exceedingly unlikely hypothetical :P
<elvishjerricco> And it's the only thing I can think of that would kill CoW on mdraid
<elvishjerricco> And even then data loss would be one transaction
<gchristensen> and I suppose is exactly the reason ZFS says don't use {hw,md}raid
<elvishjerricco> It'd be fun to see someone try my mdraid+physical uberblock idea
<elvishjerricco> That would be able to implement a ZFS-level fix
<elvishjerricco> Completely pointless though when stuff like ZFS exists :P
<gchristensen> I have a fix for you :P
<gchristensen> ln -s /dev/zvol/mdraid /dev/md127
<elvishjerricco> I wonder if this issue is why btrfs still technically has a write hole...
<elvishjerricco> lol
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: Also worth noting this issue can only happen with mirrors of 3 or more disks. raid5/6 will always prefer real data over parity data, so it's more like raid0 until you need to replace a disk. raid0 would not have this problem at all.
<gchristensen> raid0 lol
<gchristensen> it would not have this problem for unrelated reasons
<elvishjerricco> So I guess CoW on mdraid raid5/6 would basically be totally safe
<elvishjerricco> Worst case, 2 and 2' end up being mixed together, failing checksum validation, forcing it to go to 1
<gchristensen> out of curiosity, why are you thinking through this?
<gchristensen> and, why not just use zfs :P
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: I keep trying to think of a way to get ZFS level integrity using traditional block layers so I can tell people what to implement when they complain that ZFS is a layering violation :P
<elvishjerricco> But mostly it's just interesting
<gchristensen> hmmm seems I have problems with this new emacs
<samueldr> is it that it's not vim?
<samueldr> (sorry)
<gchristensen> nah
<gchristensen> `emacs ./myfile` doesn't ... open that file
<samueldr> sounds problematic
<samueldr> bad wrapper not passing args?
<gchristensen> I think my config is busted
<gchristensen> there was something wrong with it, so I comment part of it out, and probably not enoug
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<gchristensen> oh no and my forward delete key doesn't work
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<gchristensen> welp my emacs config is broken enough to be annoying and not enough for me to figure out how to fix it
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<cole-h> Dangit Firefox, stop giving me OCSP errors >:(
<emily> security.OCSP.enabled = 0 (...but while OCSP is broken, you probably shouldn't be getting OCSP errors, so maybe don't)
<emily> unless you mean OCSP-stapling-related stuff in which case that's a cert problem and there's nothing you can do about it
<cole-h> It just happens every once in a while for no discernable reason, on known-good websites (like just now, nixos.org)
<cole-h> I probably monkeyed with my config too much
<emily> it could be your connection just failing intermittently as firefox attempts to contact the ocsp server
* emily has OCSP off. revocation is pretty broken and Chrome defaults to not bothering anyway, so might as well avoid the extra requests.
<emily> hopefully ocsp must-staple takes off...
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<samueldr> the way this is used is neat