<DigitalKiwi>
i don't think you missed it this week
<DigitalKiwi>
well, no more than anyone else
<samueldr>
I think we all missed it, but no one failed to catch it
<ashkitten>
hmph, im annoyed that pango dropped support for bitmap fonts so suddenly
<ashkitten>
i use terminus for my i3bar and i cant really find a suitable alternative
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<ashkitten>
it's not possible to downgrade pango without rebuilding everything that depends on it, right?
<jtojnar>
ashkitten there were some mentions of grafting few days ago on this channel (or maybe #nixos-dev)
<ashkitten>
grafting?
<ashkitten>
like forcing impurity?
<jtojnar>
that is how it is called if I recall correctly
<jtojnar>
but you would need to make sure the ABI did not change (otherwise you are out of luck)
<ashkitten>
yeah
<ashkitten>
because it's impure
<jtojnar>
there is also a PR to convert the fonts to opentype
<ashkitten>
jtojnar: apparently there's a version of terminus as a ttf, so i'm gonna use that
<ashkitten>
have to use some custom fontconfig settings for it to look good though
<colemickens>
Is there a command like `getent hosts` but instead it just tells me what resolver it thinks its supposed to be using?
<colemickens>
pretty confused, I've got a netns container, I overwrite /etc/{nsswitch.conf,resolv.conf} (confirmed from inside) and yet, DNS leaks and DNS resolution breaks if I stop systemd-resolved on the host.
<colemickens>
nsswitch.conf containing "hosts: dns ...", should make it use resolv.conf which has "nameserver x.y.z.a" where x.y.z.a is a valid nameserver.
<colemickens>
ergo I'd expect functional DNS?
<colemickens>
oh boy, I do not understand what is going on here
<colemickens>
inside the container, /etc/resolv.conf is a symlink that points at systemd-resolved's stub resolver... but when I cat that file isnide the netns, it shows me the overlayed resolv.conf. How is this possible?
<colemickens>
inside container ` readlink -f /etc/resolv.conf` -> /run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf, but it has different values in/out of hte container
<colemickens>
but inside the netns container, resolvectl still lists google/cf dns from the host resolved's configuration
<colemickens>
Ooof, it all comes down to nscd
<colemickens>
Yeah, nscd exposes a socket in /var/ that leaks through `ip netns exec` and nicely leaks DNS if you don't happen to test for it and catch it.
<colemickens>
And worse, it seems like it doesn't always use nscd, so you get false positives. Luckily "am.i.mullvad.net" seems to do a longer default test and caughti t.
<colemickens>
Oooh goody, and on top of it, if you restart resolved, somehow it manages to clobber the netns's resolv.conf due the aforementioned weirdness regularly the interplay of nixos's etc/static symlinks and how networkd plays with symlinks and /run
<colemickens>
unless I'm overly tired and making mistakes, this stuff is hard to use correctly, hate to be that guy but "too many choices". Not using nscd or resolved would have avoided all of this (and other past nixos bugs that have affected many people). :/
<colemickens>
phew, I'm not crazy, but I did spend hours discovering something that I've now found pre-documented
<__monty__>
In general I've been less than impressed with doctors, both MD and Phd.
<__monty__>
GPs' knowledge of drugs and their side-effects and interactions *is* impressive. But also fairly amenable to a good search engine.
<DigitalKiwi>
and somehow the removal of the wax plug was worse ...for a few minutes...the world spun
<__monty__>
That does sound unpleasant.
<DigitalKiwi>
before that i just kind of walked without as good of balance lol
<joepie91>
I've mainly been annoyed by phds seemingly not realizing that their expertise is scoped, and it doesn't automatically make them correct about everything else, nor does it justify an attitude as if they're smarter than others...
<elvishjerricco>
Docs on btrfs aren't great... I'm just trying to figure out how its raid levels actually work, and I can't find it written down anywhere. Like I want to know how raid1 and raid10 are different in btrfs given that raid1 stores 2 copies on N disks, which sounds like striping (raid10) to me.
<DigitalKiwi>
isn't btrfs with raid like...reallly likely to lose your data? or is it only certain raid levels
<DigitalKiwi>
raid 5 i know is mentioned a lot
<DigitalKiwi>
as in: avoid it
<DigitalKiwi>
does zfs suite your needs?
<DigitalKiwi>
suit*?
<DigitalKiwi>
anyway raid10 usually needs 4 disks
<elvishjerricco>
DigitalKiwi: Oh I'm a ZFS fanboy for sure :P I'm just curious about btrfs is all. Supposedly the random "oops my data's gone" bugs are pretty nonexistent these days, and all that remains is a very obscure raid5/6 write hole bug. (Not that I actually trust it)
<DigitalKiwi>
and raid 1+0 is different than raid 0+1 it depends on the order you do it
<elvishjerricco>
DigitalKiwi: Yea, with old style raid, raid1 is just a plain ole mirror, and raid10 strips over mirrors.
<elvishjerricco>
But btrfs is quite different
<elvishjerricco>
You can have N devices in any btrfs pool and the raid level determines how they're used
<DigitalKiwi>
oh
<elvishjerricco>
btrfs raid1 just stores two copies in some place over N disks. And so does btrfs raid10... But for some reason btrfs raid10 requires minimum 4 disks
<__monty__>
From your description I'd assume "raid1" is just keeping a redundant copy on a seperate disk.
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: Yea, but if it can have many disks then how is it storing everything in a way meaningfully different than striping?
<DigitalKiwi>
joepie91: thank you, i'm pretty sure that's the site i was trying to find >.>
<__monty__>
And raid10 must be striping the files.
<joepie91>
DigitalKiwi: figured :P
<joepie91>
handy to have on speed-dial
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: The entire file in two places. Vs the chopped up files all over the place, with no two identical stripes on the same device?
<elvishjerricco>
Like with a raid1 pool of 6 disks, everything gets written to at least two disks, but still spread over all 6 disks. Still sounds like striping
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: I'd assume files get spread but not sub-file units.
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: Why would either mode have two identical stripes on the same device?
<__monty__>
Neither does, that's the 1 in the description.
<elvishjerricco>
right
<DigitalKiwi>
i bookmarked it both on twitter and on firefox :D
<elvishjerricco>
oh i misread that message, my bad
<elvishjerricco>
Ok so you just think it's a file level distinction. I'm not sure why they'd do it that way
<DigitalKiwi>
i have a computer with mdadm raid 10 on two disks
<DigitalKiwi>
because i can
<elvishjerricco>
Or why that would make raid10 require four devices in their model
<DigitalKiwi>
but you really need 4
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: Well, spreading the stripes increases risk of data loss.
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: What does "spreading the stripes" mean?
<DigitalKiwi>
it's setup so that each disk is in half
<DigitalKiwi>
and each half is a full disk so even if a disk dies the other disk has everything
<elvishjerricco>
DigitalKiwi: Why not just a normal mirror then?
<DigitalKiwi>
but there's probably a lot of disk thrashing on writes but reads are faster
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: Well that's what striping is. In real raid you write each chunk/stripe to every disk. I assume btrfs raid10 just writes each stripe to two disks.
<elvishjerricco>
ah
<DigitalKiwi>
11:00 DigitalKiwi: because i can
<DigitalKiwi>
it was a fun project
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: Yea I guess. Still seems like a loose distinction at the level they're working on
<elvishjerricco>
DigitalKiwi: I think raid1 will still double read speeds, right?
<__monty__>
I'm just guessing btw. Salt to taste.
<DigitalKiwi>
yeah but not writes
<elvishjerricco>
Yea this is why I wanna find some docs from btrfs on the matter :P
<DigitalKiwi>
my setup was still faster than a raid1 just not as good as a real raid10
<elvishjerricco>
DigitalKiwi: Ohhh heh neat.
<elvishjerricco>
I'd figure the write thrashing would ruin that advantage, but if it works, then cool :P
<DigitalKiwi>
it was mostly to learn mdadm and i only had 2 disks
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: Ok, so I think you need a minimum of 4 because they can't guarantee redundancy otherwise.
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<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: Why not?
<__monty__>
Because device failure could affect all your raid1 groups simultaneously. And that's not what people expect of raid10.
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: I guess I'm still just not understanding the storage model with btrfs. Like I get it with traditional raid, but btrfs appears to be different due to its ability to do raid1 with just 2 copies over N disks
<elvishjerricco>
I wonder why this stuff isn't better documented...
<__monty__>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ devs and docs
<DigitalKiwi>
it seems their raid10 is the same as regular raid
<__monty__>
Maybe the SUSE documentation is better? IIRC they push or have pushed for btrfs adoption?
<__monty__>
Not quite, DigitalKiwi.
<__monty__>
Afaik raid10 has pretty strict requirements on the disks being the same size?
<DigitalKiwi>
this one does too?
<__monty__>
Create 10 disks in that calculator of sizes 100 through 1000.
<__monty__>
You'll see it really doesn't.
<DigitalKiwi>
with 4 disks the behavior is the same as raid10
<__monty__>
Yep, that's why I said create 10 disks of differing sizes, not 4.
<__monty__>
It's not at all similar to how raid10 behaves re heterogeneous device sizes.
<DigitalKiwi>
and by regular raid are we meaning hardware raid or mdadm
<__monty__>
It's like how you don't see a difference between raid1 and btrfs' raid1 with only 2 disks.
<DigitalKiwi>
because mdadm allows for...interesting setups (mine above as an example)
<__monty__>
Afaik mdadm has the same restrictions as hardware raid?
<__monty__>
Well, *broken* setups more like : p
<DigitalKiwi>
you take that back
<DigitalKiwi>
my setup is perfect
<DigitalKiwi>
<3
* DigitalKiwi
comforts array don't listen to them
<__monty__>
Oh, just noticed I've been using the term "stripe" wrong. What I meant when I used it earlier is the part of a stripe that ends up on a single device.
<__monty__>
That's a good example of how it is entirely unlike raid10.
<DigitalKiwi>
why is there so much white
<__monty__>
So, btrfs's raid0 is actually slightly more resistant to device failure than RAID0.
<__monty__>
DigitalKiwi: So little, you mean? With RAID10 you'd have a lot more unusable space.
<__monty__>
And the reason is because you only have 3 exceptionally large devices. If you had more plenty more space would be in use.
<DigitalKiwi>
i'm pretty sure with mdadm i could get more
<__monty__>
Because the data needs to be on a minimum of 4 devices.
<DigitalKiwi>
oh it did say at the bottom "not enough disks"
<__monty__>
Not as I'm reading it.
<DigitalKiwi>
and then i accidentally hit an arrow key and it deleted everything so now i'm mad
<__monty__>
But if you can "fake" partitions as devices, maybe there's other tricks.
<DigitalKiwi>
for example you could take all of those small disks and combine them into a bigger one!
<DigitalKiwi>
11:41 __monty__: But if you can "fake" partitions as devices, maybe there's other tricks.
<__monty__>
Yeah but that's not what btrfs's striping does.
<DigitalKiwi>
yes
<__monty__>
Btrfs spreads a stripe over as many disks as possible.
<DigitalKiwi>
i maybe might have actually converted that one to a full raid10 with 4 disks...hmm...i know i started to...
<DigitalKiwi>
i at least go to the part where i had 2 more disks that are in an array that should have 4 but is missing disks >.>
<DigitalKiwi>
or i might have made it zfs
<DigitalKiwi>
idk it has arch on it i don't use it much it's the only computer i haven't converted to nixos other than some ancient laptops i don't use and the one windows i have for my cutting machine
<__monty__>
Oh, btw, DigitalKiwi. Https doesn't actually prevent MITMing as Russia has shown lately.
<joepie91>
hm?
<etu>
__monty__: It does as long as you trust your CA's
<joepie91>
__monty__: what incident are you referring to?
<__monty__>
etu: Yeah but that's the thing. They've been forcing CAs to pony up keys.
<DigitalKiwi>
oh well in that case we should definitely abandon https
<DigitalKiwi>
all is lost
<joepie91>
__monty__: do you have a link?
<joepie91>
because that would pretty much lead to an immediate distrust of those CAs
<DigitalKiwi>
i vaguely recall hearing about something that tracks with what they're saying
<DigitalKiwi>
but that's like an edge case i hope...
<__monty__>
joepie91: No, this is from a conversation with someone doing a Phd on "slavistiek."
<__monty__>
Apparently they're not being at all secretive about it though so I'm sure you could find sources. (You might need to read Russian though.)
<DigitalKiwi>
pfft, they don't even have their phd yet, what do they know :*)
<__monty__>
DigitalKiwi: I've probably mentioned this here before. So you may still only have one source on this ; )
<DigitalKiwi>
i play a game where half of what i say is sarcastic and the other half is not and you have to guess which is which
<joepie91>
__monty__: that sounds a lot like speculation to me
<joepie91>
not exactly the fact you were presenting it like earlier :)
<joepie91>
so I don't really find this credible; it's not like there's no Russians involved in maintaining the various CA lists, and they would've picked up on this if this were an open secret
<__monty__>
According to them it wasn't. Most of what they're doing is simply going through communiques from the Kremlin. And they said that Russia has forced CAs to hand over keys and is currently trying to gain control of more of them.
<joepie91>
(Russian sources are fine too.)
<joepie91>
__monty__: well then it should be possible to provide a source, no?
<__monty__>
I can try to contact this person if you really want me to.
<__monty__>
As I said *I* don't have a source. I have no reason to doubt this person's competence though.
<joepie91>
__monty__: please do - if this is genuinely a sourced thing, I'm sure I can ping a few people who would want to know
<__monty__>
Alright, I'll try. Might take a couple days.
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: Hmm, then I'm not sure what that calculator is showing with raid10.
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: After asking a bit on #btrfs, I think I've got a somewhat better understanding. raid1 kinda haphazardly writes all over the place so long as it's on two disks. Raid10 breaks things down into actual stripes and mirrors much more like regular raid10, which theoretically offers better perf
<__monty__>
Doesn't raid1 keep all the chunks of a fail on a single disk? Well, two disks.
<elvishjerricco>
Not sure what you mean
<__monty__>
A file consists of a bunch of chunks, the size of which depends on the disk. If you have a single disk all the chunks of a file end up in blocks on the same disk. Does btrfs' raid1 guarantee that all of a file's chunks will be on a single disk? I.e., only store entire files rather than spreading blocks around on all devices?
<elvishjerricco>
Up to 1G, I think so. Then it starts breaking things up
<__monty__>
Ah, then I understand your confusion. I assumed the redundancy granularity was files, not blocks or 1GB sets of blocks.
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<srk>
what browser you guys use? I'm getting tired of firefox as it can't handle my tab heavy workflow
<srk>
would love something with indexing so I can close all the tabs and still find stuff I've previously browsed
<DigitalKiwi>
firefox :(
<eyJhb>
Chromium, but I am not sure that is better
<srk>
I've dropped chromium recently, was using it from time to time but it won't do tree style tabs and I don't like to be tracked
<eyJhb>
Tree style?
<srk>
eyJhb: yes, plugin that moves tabs to the left/right side and organizes them into tree
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<__monty__>
srk: Hmm, I think joepie91 would disagree with you re tabs.
<__monty__>
Maybe your bad tab performance is due to the plugin.
<joepie91>
lol
<joepie91>
actually I think I would agree, the 'indexing' that srk describes sounds exactly like the "merging the concepts of tabs and bookmarks" that I was jabbering about earlier
<joepie91>
that doesn't seem to exist in any browser for real yet
<__monty__>
I meant performance problems.
<srk>
__monty__: yes, the performance of tree style tabs is not ideal
<srk>
it felt better before it was migrated to new extensions framework
<srk>
there's an extension that claims it can do full text indexing - it's called worldbrain memex but it doesn't quite work for me
<srk>
need to take a better look why it doesn't index..
<__monty__>
Hmm, `rm /Volumes/pendrive/*` reports "somefile: No such file or directory", but ls doesn't list any files.
<__monty__>
What is this ghost file and can I get rid of it?
<elvishjerricco>
Wonder how much effect this will have on NixOS build farms
<srk>
they do rely on such mechanism?
<srk>
"This pattern is fairly traditional on Unix, and works very well"
<srk>
"Note! This kernel improvement seems to be very good at triggering a race condition in the make jobserver
<srk>
:D
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<__monty__>
I expected the context-switches in the buggy case to be a lot higher. I guess they *are* because it's a lower frequency over a longer period but still.
<__monty__>
Just wonder whether I'm reading those stats incorrectly.
<__monty__>
Good demonstration of many eyes, shallow bugs though.
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<samueldr>
ugh!
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<samueldr>
it looks like the IRC brokenness is not entirely handled right
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<samueldr>
wow
<samueldr>
did they break everything
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<samueldr>
couldn't change nickname since I was on channels that (seemingly can???) forbid nickname changes
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<samueldr>
but I didn't have my nickname, so wasn't +r, so couldn't join some channels!
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<samueldr>
meaning that I'm probably accidentally off of some channels, but no way to clearly know
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<makefu>
samueldr: i needed to /reconnect -server freenode to get back to "normal"
<samueldr>
my client "helpfully" remembers channels I was and wasn't in
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<samueldr>
so it "helpfully" remembers that I was forced off channels :(
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<samueldr>
if you see me or {`-`} missing from a channel, do tell
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<worldofpeace>
lol, it seems matrix has died in this room
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<colemickens>
has it?
<colemickens>
:(
<colemickens>
yay for infrequently released software
<worldofpeace>
it seems there's no log between "it looks like the IRC brokenness is not entirely handled right" and now
<worldofpeace>
all good now though
* colemickens
looks, #sr.ht is still broken :(
<joepie91>
worldofpeace: matrix.org perhaps, but my bridge is working just fine :P
<joepie91>
and Freenode itself is netsplitting
<colemickens>
joepie91: how much time does it take a month maintaining matrix+bridge
<joepie91>
colemickens: no idea, I let $friend worry about that :P but it's non-zero
<samueldr>
isn't joepie91 "cheating" by using another implementation?
<samueldr>
ah
<samueldr>
I thought it was the one you were writing
<samueldr>
(were you?)
<joepie91>
samueldr: I am writing a homeserver, but it isn't remotely ready for prod usage
<joepie91>
once it is, though, I expect its maintenance-required level to be close to zero
<joepie91>
(as is generally the case for the stuff I write...)
<joepie91>
Synapse unfortunately does not share that characteristics