gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<adisbladis> Ugh... XFS strikes again
<adisbladis> 0b files all over the place
<adisbladis> Protip: It's 2020, CoW & full data checksumming should be a basic requirement
<DigitalKiwi> ZFS?
<gchristensen> adisbladis: :(
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<adisbladis> DigitalKiwi: I was using that on my laptop before but had terrible performance
<adisbladis> It turns out I just have a terribly performing SSD and XFS did nothing to mitigate that
<gchristensen> oops
<gchristensen> wait, which laptop is this?
<adisbladis> gchristensen: Thinkpad 25
<gchristensen> ah
<DigitalKiwi> i had terrible performance when i first tried zfs
<DigitalKiwi> turns out sync=always is kind of slow
<gchristensen> hehehe
<DigitalKiwi> only took me a month to figure it out!
<gchristensen> if you need aggressive sync behavior, you can tune it per dataset :)
<DigitalKiwi> funny thing is; it was
<DigitalKiwi> that's why it was so confusing! most of the system was fast
<gchristensen> hah
<DigitalKiwi> but that dataset was /nix :)
<gchristensen> ooops
<adisbladis> Thank god for git <3
<adisbladis> Backups is the shit
<gchristensen> +1
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<pie_[bnc]> i spent two days packaging some not-that-shitty-seeming java app and learned a few things about node and maven. probably not worth it.
<pie_[bnc]> whoops, wasnt originally planning to send that here, forgot to censor myself :p
<DigitalKiwi> it's ok apparently shit is on the ok list adisbladis got a +1
<gchristensen> I just want to say it isn't a list, it is about how we talk and be with each other and who we want to incude and exclude of innumerable cultures and backgrounds
<gchristensen> how we want to talk and be*
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<DigitalKiwi> can we have a list though
<DigitalKiwi> some of us are...special :)
<gchristensen> no, because it isn't about a rule or specifics but an idea and feeling
<DigitalKiwi> that sounds very difficult to navigate
<samueldr> this... may come as a surprise for english-speaking people, but here in Québec using "fuck" and declinations of it is like... not an issue; it's used as a borrowed swear word, which makes it less impactful than the native ones
<gchristensen> DigitalKiwi: have you had trouble, actually?
<DigitalKiwi> i've only been here a few days
<gchristensen> lol
<gchristensen> samueldr: "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" haha
<samueldr> a Québécois could easily slip a "fuck[...]" while visiting in the states, and some, if not most, not really realize the difference in scope
<gchristensen> that is pretty funny
<samueldr> and why « "bon cop, bad cop" haha »? wondering if you know about it or have seen it
<gchristensen> I think the name is pretty funny
<samueldr> I wonder if the subtitled adaptations are passable
<samueldr> >> The film was then released in two official versions, one for Anglophones and one for Francophones, which differ only in their subtitles and in a few spoken lines
<samueldr> oh
<DigitalKiwi> i'd just like to say that i use swear words as if i'm a quebecian
<samueldr> the jig is up, you've been unmasked already
<DigitalKiwi> like i said, the bad schools! :P
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<DigitalKiwi> any art deciders around
<DigitalKiwi> or opinion havers
<DigitalKiwi> i don't have an svg for the second (computer crashed, i hadn't saved it) so if you're tied between them...say the first one :P
<cole-h> Personally a fan of the first.
<emily> hard to tell without more of a border around both
<emily> the difference in padding is much more noticeable than the different height
<DigitalKiwi> what browser are you using
<emily> firefox
<DigitalKiwi> oh
<DigitalKiwi> am in firefox
<emily> as in, there's a dark grey border around both, which contrasts too much with the background colour of the image to be able to accurately judge the two logos against each other (imo0
<emily> )
<emily> the dark grey border from firefox
<DigitalKiwi> so the reason for the second is i think the first one the lambda is too small
<DigitalKiwi> but i don't quite like the padding on the second either yeah
<emily> I think the second one looks best
<emily> maybe somewhere in-between the two
<emily> the first one definitely does look like the > is taller than the lambda due to optical trickery
<emily> also I have to say, it just looks like the Haskell logo to me rather than any variant of it >.>
<samueldr> the tiny point outside of the page is getting to me
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<samueldr> I mean, the pointy bit of the lambdaflake part
<DigitalKiwi> found the pedant
<DigitalKiwi> :D
<DigitalKiwi> you have sprung the trap!
<DigitalKiwi> so the thing is the nixos lambda is not perfect :(
<samueldr> that's what you think
<samueldr> it's perfectly made askew
<DigitalKiwi> the top half is bigger than the bottom half
<samueldr> I know pretty much all there is to know about the logo
<gchristensen> npool 87.3T 4.15M 87.3T - - 0% 0% 1.00x ONLINE -
<samueldr> that's a lot of Tees
<DigitalKiwi> samueldr: how would you make the > align with it
<DigitalKiwi> because it bothers me too :|
<samueldr> I don't think there is really a way
<DigitalKiwi> that was also part of the reasoning for the second one
<samueldr> you're focusing on the negative space of the obtuse angle
<samueldr> while in reality the focus of the "split" (if there is even one) is the middle of the branchy bit
<DigitalKiwi> what part is the branchy bit
<samueldr> ,\ , is the branchy bit \ is the main axis, let's say
<samueldr> (does that make sense?)
<DigitalKiwi> yeah
<DigitalKiwi> idk how to talk about the parts of a lambda either lol
<samueldr> whew, two bytes to distill the essence of the lambdaflake, ,\ :)
<DigitalKiwi> i call them the long leg and short leg
<DigitalKiwi> maybe i'd have more self condidence if i didn't use that url so often
<samueldr> who's shateme?
<DigitalKiwi> it's not my fault my uploadlastscreen alias uses my ~/bin/upload script that uses the my friends hate me domain!
<DigitalKiwi> oh, wait, it is my fault? D:
<DigitalKiwi> so anyway
<DigitalKiwi> the branchy bit
<DigitalKiwi> what do
* DigitalKiwi thinks it looks good with black bg
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<ashkitten> molex to sata power connector in my computer shorted itself and caught fire, scorched my drives a bit. they're fine tho, just gave me a bad scare
<sphalerite> that does sound scary.
<FireFly> o.o ouch
<ashkitten> yeah
<ashkitten> luckily only melted itself and not, yk, the insides of the drives
<ashkitten> im gonna look into how i can do backups
<sphalerite> joepie91: would you happen to know what particular EU (or German) safety codes that funny PSU that dumps power back at you when switched off might be violating?
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<joepie91> sphalerite: DIN-something-something :P
<joepie91> no idea
<ajs124> DIN is boring. VDE norms are way cooler :P
<joepie91> sphalerite: I'll ask someone at revspace who probably knows
<eyJhb> DIN is always weird to read, seeing as it means "your" in Danish
<FireFly> heh
<FireFly> reminds me of how 'iso' is apparently large (IIRC at least) in finnish
<ajs124> It's amazing how little thought some people seem to put into naming things sometimes. DIN and ISO are still ok, I guess, but then you got names like MongoDB. The first time I heard that name I thought it was some kind of bad joke.
<eyJhb> FireFly: there is loads of suchs things :p E.g. fart in Danish means speed, but .. yeah, not in English :p
<eyJhb> ajs124: I don't even know what it comes from, and have never really thought about it :p
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<eyJhb> `While originally simply dubbed “p”, the database was officially named MongoDB, with “Mongo” being short for the word humongous.`
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<eyJhb> One letter away from being "Mongol" which is somene with Downs Syndrom in Danish
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<ajs124> It's exactly that in German... Maybe I should edit that wiktionary entry.
<eyJhb> I just read "idiot"
<eyJhb> But yeah
<eyJhb> But I don't really take words THAT seriously, e.g. our HEX/BASE encoder in Nix which cannot use certain chars because it might curse
<ajs124> Well, the character set already needed to be reduced, so I guess it made sense to pick some vovels to have fewer words in there.
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<eyJhb> Why did it need to be reduced?
<FireFly> eyJhb: sure, same in swedish
<ajs124> Because alphanumeric is 10+26=36 characters, but the hash is base32 encoded
<eyJhb> FireFly: I think Danish/Swedish has some of the same words, that are totally different
<FireFly> hehe
<FireFly> 'rolig' comes to mind
<eyJhb> ajs124: isn't there a default charset normallly used for Base32?
<eyJhb> FireFly: what does it mean in Swedish?
<FireFly> amusing
<eyJhb> Ah
<eyJhb> Yeah, amusing != Calm
<FireFly> there a some weird reason for that change in semantics, I forget what though :p
<eyJhb> but it a way, it works both way. Never say to a women during a argument to be "rolig"
<eyJhb> Damn..
<eyJhb> :(
<eyJhb> So, that alphabet could be used?
<ajs124> Probably.
<eyJhb> Which would seem like a "normal" implementation
<eyJhb> But a litle too late now
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<eyJhb> Anyone know of a good local visualiser of math? I use Python as my calculator, but it would be nice to be able to check, if e.g. `((u_1*u_2)/((2*c*r)**2))/(1+(5-u_1*u_2)/(4*c*r)+1/((2*c*r)**2))` is correct (looks correct)
<ajs124> https://octave.sourceforge.io/symbolic/ or https://www.sympy.org/en/index.html can probably do that, but neither are that convienient
<eyJhb> I might use SymPy
<eyJhb> But I hope it isn't needed. Haven't written a equation wrong in Python yet
<eyJhb> *yet*
<sphalerite> joepie91: awesome, thanks!
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<pie_[bnc]> i was wondering why my ssh works then i realized it probably adds itself to the firewall exception list
<gchristensen> openssh is the only one which does that
<pie_[bnc]> not unreasonable
<Taneb> gchristensen: :D
<DigitalKiwi> NEXT PROJECT :D :D :D ???
<DigitalKiwi> pie_[bnc]: there's talk to make it not :(
<sphalerite> DigitalKiwi: I seriously doubt that's going to happen
<DigitalKiwi> yee are of little faith!
<DigitalKiwi> i know you mean the ssh thing not that being my next project
<DigitalKiwi> ...but you're right about both ;p
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<infinisil> There's a series called distro hoppers where somebody does short 2 minute reviews of distros: https://youtu.be/NtXb6mF3ZZ0 :o
<wildtrees> infinisil, what was that I just watched :o
<wildtrees> thought he was gonna hot unplug or powerdown his computer
<wildtrees> but no
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<infinisil> xD
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<joepie91> DigitalKiwi: I hope you like soldering :P
<joepie91> sphalerite: they unfortunately didn't know :( suggested someone who does, but they're not on IRC
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<manveru> infinisil: that camera work...
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<emily> infinisil: lmao
<cransom> i did a diy gameframe. hrm. do i have the patience for an 8x8x8 led cube?
<ashkitten> just gonna keep scrubbing my zpool until theres no more errors...
<ashkitten> as long as theres to data error im fine
<gchristensen> uh oh
<ashkitten> it's fine, likely a side effect of having mounted half of the pool at a time to test it in another machine
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<DigitalKiwi> is there an easy way to make a bash alias that does tab completion
<ashkitten> other machine didn't have enough sata ports
<DigitalKiwi> like uhmm
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<DigitalKiwi> https://gist.github.com/Kiwi/e7c60ce4684fd47513ade73024694c80 say i have something like that, if i did nix-env -iA nixos.<tab> i could have tab completion
<DigitalKiwi> but not with my function :<
<ashkitten> gchristensen: in case you didn't read last night, the molex to sata power adapter powering my hard drives caught fire yesterday and i ended up having to disassemble my computer to figure out what was up
<gchristensen> oooooooops....
<ashkitten> luckily it only shorted itself and not the drives
* gchristensen looks at his single system in his basement acting as a backup server
<ashkitten> but that's why i need to set up backups stat
<gchristensen> there have been a series of arsons nearby, making me very aware how often all of my data is in the same building
<ashkitten> i don't have the upstream bandwidth to make any sort of reasonable backups over the internet, i think
<gchristensen> it depends how much you write :)
<DigitalKiwi> ashkitten: did you get your mail server working?
<ashkitten> gchristensen: if my calculations are correct it'd take a whole month to upload 3T over my uplink
<ashkitten> DigitalKiwi: not my highest priority, and i think i'm gonna let my gf do that anyways
<cransom> but the bulk of that data isn't changing over the month, no?
<ashkitten> cransom: okay but i can't afford to saturate my uplink for a month lol
<gchristensen> how about 50% saturated for 2 months
<cransom> QoS to the rescue.
<ashkitten> i'm moving next month
<ashkitten> i'll have better internet then, anyways
<gchristensen> aye
<gchristensen> besides, where are you writing it *to*
<ashkitten> so long an my computer doesn't catch fire some other way
<ashkitten> gchristensen: presumably backblaze b2 or something. i don't know
<gchristensen> one perfectly valid way to back up is grab a big ol' 8t disk off the internet and dupe it over
<ashkitten> and put that 8T disk where?
<ashkitten> anyway we're looking into a tape backup system
<ashkitten> but idk, might try to find something else in the meantime
<gchristensen> safety deposit box at a nearby bank
<ashkitten> yeah hm
<cransom> spouse and i both push to backblaze, https://gist.github.com/cransom/94401905c0a776d2965c0443e0150d8c is what i use to make sure neither of our backups are being annoying (which also i see, backblaze has changed ips now, i need to update that)
<gchristensen> cransom: *steals*
<gchristensen> wait wait wait
<cransom> i think all those ips /were/ backblaze at some point.
<cransom> i must have written this a very, very long ago, i'm missing out on some stuff. /me fixes that now
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> gchristensen: future tip: inkscape is easier for this sort of thing :P
<gchristensen> good to know
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<worldofpeace> Friends, it's truly a moment to lament over https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/80036
<{^_^}> #80036 (by edolstra, 1 hour ago, open): Disable most VM tests
<worldofpeace> I grant a sad tune for your troubles https://send.firefox.com/download/0e8168357d235f58/#eg1DvFkXEMOprL-LRWfV0g
<srk> just add more RAM! :D
<srk> or even swap
<srk> shouldn't matter in this case
<gchristensen> no?
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<aanderse> the continued use of "this people/process problem is solved by flakes" as justification sometimes concerns me
<aanderse> i'm happy whenever i hear "this technology problem is solved by flakes" and the conversation ends
<aanderse> because thats great to hear
<worldofpeace> same
<aanderse> but yeah... way too many times i hear "this people/process problem is solved by flakes, case closed"
<gchristensen> yeah, not case closed
<aanderse> technology doesn't solve people/process problems :(
<gchristensen> heh
<worldofpeace> because Eelco doesn't have the clear to push flakes outside the RFC process
<srk> gchristensen: not sure if I undstertand the issue correctly - the evaluation of all tests takes 12G and 5 minutes? or it's just collecting their results?
<gchristensen> evaluation
<srk> it's due to multiple re-evaluations of nixpkgs for nested vms? missing memoization?
<gchristensen> evaluating nixos
<srk> nixos, yes
<gchristensen> which I don't believe can be memoized
<srk> I've had troubles with this before with large deployments composed of many nixoses
<gchristensen> yeah
<cransom> i updated my fireqos gist. it even works (!).
<srk> heh, this was the mem fix .. boot.extraModprobeConfig = "options zfs zfs_arc_max=${toString (2 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024)}";
<srk> :D
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<cransom> heh. get a few text messages on the phone and i watch the voip class identifier increase. suppose i can maybe confirm that texts touch that ipsec tunnel.
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<viric> Solution to my keyboards problem: 1) use a PS/2 keyboard and a PS/2->USB converter. That makes keypresses sorted if the converter is cheap enough. 2) Use a keyboard that samples at high frequency.
<viric> I'm quite happy with a particular model of HP keyboard.
<viric> usbhid-dump tells how keyboards send things.
<srk> how do you decipher the output of usbhid-dump?
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<viric> srk: 1st byte are modifier bits, next bytes are keycodes pressed
<srk> thanks!
<viric> the keycodes pressed are in press order. This protocol allows the devices to implement it in a way where 1) there is no order between modifier presses + other keys and 2) there is no order of release
<viric> SOME device implementers will send ONE report for every key. But SOME others will send multiple press updates in a single report.
<viric> As a typist, good for the 1st (more latency, if you want, but clear order), bad for the 2nd (less latency but unclear press/release order)
<viric> I've seen keyboards of both kinds.
<srk> I wonder how fast you need to sample
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<srk> I've got my first cherry mx switch working today via external interrupt :D but there's only 16 exti lines /o\
<gchristensen> how many switches do you need, anyway
<gchristensen> probably no more than 12
<samueldr> what with the alphabet having only 12 letters, it's all good
<gchristensen> you got it
<srk> I want to try building https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard
<clever> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyaocKS3sfg Adam Savage's Spot Robot Rickshaw Carriage!
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<clever> Adam: "I love this robot!"
<clever> Also Adam: Enslaves it immediately
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<viric> I just added about the USB thing
<viric> 25 keyboards tested by now.
<gchristensen> nice
<viric> The overall scene is a whole disaster.
<ajs124> Seems like I have 6kro :(
<ajs124> That's probably the limit of… my PS to USB adapter? Maybe if I convert from XT instead of AT (because my keyboard supports that), I'll have more simultaneous keys :P
<viric> If your USB device works in "boot mode", it's limited to 6 keys per USB report.
<ajs124> Now that I think about it, that probably isn't even my keyboard, my PC sees. It's probably my KVM.
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<ajs124> "They refer to themselves and their friends as hackers or script kiddies" 😲
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<gchristensen> yaaas 100% of my test installs succeeded
<gchristensen> it was dicey there for a minute -- I thought a couple were busted, but no: they just take like 15 minutes to boot
<makefu> ajs124: real hackers would /never/ call themselves hackers :D
<samueldr> real hackers would call themselves zerocool
<ajs124> o.O how did google get "Abba the to fallacy card on jihad" from that?
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