gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<lovesegfault> Books too
<infinisil> And I want this to be integrated with a nice rating system,
<infinisil> I really hate doing ratings for my music and stuff, because how are you going to decide on 1-10?
<infinisil> It's just some arbitrary numbers, and my rating constantly changes over time, leading to inconsistencies
<lovesegfault> Yeah, rating is a difficult thing
<infinisil> So I want some rating system where you can say things like "I like this song better than that one" and over time it would order them smartly
<infinisil> With some smarts
<lovesegfault> I see
<infinisil> toposort like
<lovesegfault> Yeah
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<ashkitten> remind me to never try messing with emulated nand stuff on the wii again
<ashkitten> for the third time
<ashkitten> just spent an hour messing about with toolchains in a win10 vm and it was AWFUL
<samueldr> oof
<ashkitten> apparently nobody has prebuilt binaries (legal reasons) and the projects have all been abandoned for years
<samueldr> emulated nand? like running the nand off SD?
<ashkitten> yea
<samueldr> anything particular you wanted to have fun with?
<samueldr> it's been... years... since I last touched my Wii
<ashkitten> i uh, heard sneek+di has the ability to take screenshots
<samueldr> nice
<ashkitten> idk if it's even true!!!
<ashkitten> and i can't find out!
<samueldr> though at the same time, even if not genuine, dolphin is so great :/
<ashkitten> WAIT
<ashkitten> I COULDVE JUST USED DOLPHIN
<ashkitten> *screaming*
<samueldr> worry, I won't wait
<samueldr> sorry*
<samueldr> so... uh... that must sting a bit
<ashkitten> i was literally using dolphin to try to test out various things
<ashkitten> lol
<ashkitten> it's whatever
<samueldr> though, I know that for me, tinkering with stuff is not wasted, generally
<samueldr> though if it has to go through some random windows stuff... then yeah, annoying
<ashkitten> yea
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<gchristensen> I'm sort of thinking about making a custom fuse fs for my /
<ashkitten> tryin to get a screenshot of Your Mario OC Being Cheered On By Mario Characters
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<samueldr> hmm, just now found an issue with lightdm, compared to slim: on session crash, lightdm's autologin will not re-login as the user
<samueldr> though, this is not that much of an issue, and the real solution to the problem it causes me is to setup onboard on lightdm
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<clever> samueldr: one problem i'm wondering about, what does switch do if i switch from slim to lightdm?
<eyJhb> gchristensen: what should that custom FS do?
<aleph-> Alright mail servers and networking is hell
<aleph-> Time to just use aws ses or something as a smart host
<eyJhb> aleph-: mail servers are 100% hell yeah
<eyJhb> Same issue, or new issue?
<aleph-> Same, trying to get outbound routing right so as to appear as coming from my vps
<eyJhb> What are you using for it, and are you using NixOS w/ Firewall enabled?
<aleph-> Think I'm just gonna do a smart host since for whatever reason various policy based routing setups won't route to my vps
<aleph-> For my vps? Debian 9
<aleph-> And for my mail, NixOS with firewall, port 25 is open. I can send mail just not snat route it how I want it
<eyJhb> So you want WWW -> VPS -> Local Server, right?
<eyJhb> Mail I can never touch again I think.. But the forwarding and routing to from VPS to a local server I have done
<eyJhb> WHich sucks, but it is doable without TOO many rules
<aleph-> eyJhb: Inverse. Lan -> vps -> www
<aleph-> Need my mail to read as from 74.x.x.x not the 68.x.x.x it does now
<eyJhb> But you would still want the two way connection `LAN <-> VPS <-> WWW`, right?
<eyJhb> I don't know if it is the same you want aleph-, but I have used the following on my Debian VPS/VPN host, when I did it using that - https://github.com/eyJhb/guides/blob/master/vpn-server.md#iptables-for-port-forwarding
<aleph-> eyJhb: Right
<eyJhb> But you have to keep in mind, that if you have firewall enabled on either (and it is a NixOS host), then there are rules in there as well, that will block traffic...
<aleph-> eyJhb: I have www -> vps -> lan working fine
<aleph-> Nod
<eyJhb> But it doesn't relay the traffic back to your VPS?
<aleph-> Only port 25 seems to fail
<aleph-> It's maddening
<eyJhb> Everything else portwise, gets returned back?
<eyJhb> Does it just hang, or drop instantly?
<eyJhb> Also aleph- , the people in ##networking are mad geniuses :D But I see you are already in that channel
<eyJhb> But I had problems with my router not returning packets because of the *raw nixos-fw-rpfilter
<aleph-> eyJhb: Oh it returns, I can connect my mail client and send mail
<aleph-> But it still appears to come from my lan pub ip and not my vps
<eyJhb> aleph-: isn't it then just SNAT you need to change on your VPS?
<eyJhb> What are you current rules?
<eyJhb> s/you/your/
<aleph-> Eh I'll tell yah later
<aleph-> Almost 4am
<aleph-> Gonna crash. :p
<aleph-> Thank you though!
<eyJhb> Ohh ! Yeah, sorry :D I just got up ;) Sleep well aleph- !
<aleph-> Right-o. Night
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<eyJhb> ,locate ab
<{^_^}> Found in packages: atom, dirt, ping, cheat, vocal, hashit, povray, blender, bookworm, ideogram, isocodes, sequeler, atom-beta, ephemeral, gscan2pdf, jre.debug, torrential, apacheHttpd, glibc.debug, regextester, pantheon.granite, pantheon.wingpanel, foundationdb60.debug, glibc_memusage.debug, jdk12_headless.debug, pantheon.switchboard, openjdk8_headless.debug, pantheon.elementary-code, python27Packages.dulwich, python37Packages.dulwich, and 45 mor
<eyJhb> ,locate bin ab
<{^_^}> Found in packages: apacheHttpd
<adisbladis> Long shot: But does anyone have a way to contact louisdk?
<tilpner> Slightly weird, but: http://www.louis.dk/?page_id=2
<tilpner> The whois contains a phone number, if you're desperate
<adisbladis> tilpner: Heh, I have his email :)
<adisbladis> Not that desperate, but thanks
<gchristensen> eyJhb: I'm thinking it won't provide read-after-write semantics, so you can open a file but as soon as you close it, it is gone
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<adisbladis> gchristensen: That sounds weird :D Why?
<gchristensen> it clearly has to be "mutable", but I delete the data on every boot... so I wonder what would happen if I "deleted" on every close() :)
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: That sounds really nice
<elvishjerricco> Though I'm personally hoping to figure out how to have readonly-by-default for most filesystems on my system one day.
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<elvishjerricco> The other day I figured out a technique with zfs to have a readonly-mounted filesystem with atomic updates. Clone the fs, change it, and send/recv it back into the readonly fs. Could feasibly make for atomic `/` updates for something like nixos.
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<adisbladis> elvishjerricco: What would the improvement be over how nixos currently works?
<elvishjerricco> adisbladis: Dunno :P My first thought was that `/etc` is updated one file at a time, which is only "atomic" in NixOS because it gets redone on boot. But that's clearly sufficient as is.
<elvishjerricco> But atomic fs updates seem like they'd be useful somehow
<gchristensen> /etc is updated atomically
<gchristensen> all the nixos-controlled files are symlinks to /etc/static, and that /etc/static symlink is swapped atomically
<clever> changing files that already exist is atomic, via static
<clever> but creating or deleting files is less atomic
<gchristensen> right right
<clever> nix-collect-garbage also makes things more atomic, by moving /nix/store/foo to /nix/store/trash/foo
<clever> so the entire thing vanishes at once
<MichaelRaskin> Ah right, NixOS still doesn't have atomic etc switch
<clever> you would need a unionfs, and swap the read-only layer
<adisbladis> What's stopping is from making /etc truly atomic? /etc/nixos is an obvious one.
<MichaelRaskin> I would say /etc/passwd
<clever> adisbladis: merging the user-writable files with the read-only layer
<MichaelRaskin> Most of the user-writeable files should be just store-living symlinks to some writeable location
<clever> adisbladis: simplest option is to unionfs a nixos managed dir (the old symlinks and such), and a user managed rw layer
<MichaelRaskin> But passwd… oh well
<MichaelRaskin> (I know, my system does have etc-as-symlink-to-store)
<adisbladis> MichaelRaskin++
<{^_^}> MichaelRaskin's karma got increased to 17
<adisbladis> MichaelRaskin: That's what I do for my $HOME too.
<clever> MichaelRaskin: also, sudo demands that /etc/sudoers isnt world readable
<clever> MichaelRaskin: so nixos is forced to copy and chmod
<clever> similar for some other services
<clever> and shadow
<MichaelRaskin> For sudoers, you could have a store-name-addressed place to copy-and-chmod, and have a symlink in store
<MichaelRaskin> That should work, right?
<clever> yeah
<clever> its more of a pain when you decide you want to make a /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf to get your wifi up
<MichaelRaskin> I don't have sudo, so I do not know
<clever> and you cant nixos-rebuild to make the symlink, because the wifi isnt up
<MichaelRaskin> Meh, wpa_supplicat.conf or cups is easy to make a symlink
<MichaelRaskin> Why rebuild needs network?
<MichaelRaskin> just tell it to not use the caches
<clever> because you garbage collected some IFD stuff
<MichaelRaskin> Sigh
<clever> and cant even eval
<MichaelRaskin> I understood, yes
<adisbladis> clever: I wouldn't be a fan of a unionfs solution..
<adisbladis> I don't like paying a runtime performance penalty if it can be avoided
<MichaelRaskin> Well, if entire /etc is a symlink anyway, you can always do the silly copy-and-change-link…
<gchristensen> not to mention unionfs pretending without success to be posix
<MichaelRaskin> BTW, I tried unionfs, and in-kernel unionfs is horrible for our /etc/ handling
<MichaelRaskin> Because our underlying-RO-switches are not how unionfs likes to work
<MichaelRaskin> So I have /etc as a plain link to store (and horrible hacks for passwd handling)
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<gchristensen> o
<MichaelRaskin> We need a better progress measure to define timeouts in NixOS tests and overcome the brittle reputation (and silent-hang reputation). I have a feeling that turbostat is not just x86-only, but might end up Intel-only…
<MichaelRaskin> And we need to have something working on Aarch64, too…
<samueldr> one issue with nixos tests is that wall-clock in the VM is wall-clock outside the VM, but the VMs are not always running with the same constraints, like cpu speed, load on the machine
<samueldr> and it's not something that looks like it's being solved elsewhere except for full blown emulation...
<samueldr> I think it's not exactly related to what MichaelRaskin was saying though
<MichaelRaskin> It is; but we could hope that Qemu can be talked into providing an actual CPU cycle counter via some of MSRs
<samueldr> we'd almost need an emulation project like bsnes, cycle-accurate, but for x86_64, and aarch64, but whew that is likely to be slow
<MichaelRaskin> Does Bochs do x86_64 nowadays?
<MichaelRaskin> Yes, that's not fast
<samueldr> I think most emulators don't care about cycle accurateness and keeping the wall clock tied to the emulated system
<samueldr> though I haven't looked that deeply in the subject
<MichaelRaskin> I am a bit more optimistic about performance counters counting actually the thing they should in some emulators
<MichaelRaskin> And maybe even Qemu can be convinced
<MichaelRaskin> But I wonder how much platform coverage we can get
<gchristensen> it is annoyingly challenging to play with bash's parser
<MichaelRaskin> Why do you want to change bash's parser??
<gchristensen> I tried adding » as an alias to >>, but no luck
<MichaelRaskin> I think the parser is also single-byte
<MichaelRaskin> At least for UTF8 mode
<gchristensen> I think « is a single byte
<gchristensen> oh :/
<gchristensen> well that'll do it.
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