<MichaelRaskin>
(add the ports you want _unblocked_)
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<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: Chrome? Or?
<MichaelRaskin>
Firefox of course
<eyJhb>
Eh, might be worth
<eyJhb>
Mostly Chrome
<nh2>
tilpner: I'd like to have something that's always online though, and reliable full-text search across all messages. Irccloud doesn't have full-text search builtin, but at least it allows you to download all messages and grep
<MichaelRaskin>
eyJhb: apparently there is a command-line flag for Chrome
<__monty__>
nh2: Wouldn't matrix qualify?
<nh2>
__monty__: I just moved that conversation from #nixos-dev, I'm already using matrix but apparently the matrix IRC bridge will turn multi-line messages into hyperlinks which destroys pinging people, and it currently also has > 10 seconds delay on the bridge of the official server
<__monty__>
nh2: If you're otherwise happy with matrix I guess you could run your own bridge?
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<tilpner>
nh2: weechat/znc can be close enough to always online
<tilpner>
But not as low-effort
<__monty__>
freenode does offer a bnc service.
<avn>
eyJhb: if you will go for it, I'll join ;) I looking for new job ;)
<infinisil>
Especially in regards to having to package things for all distros, whereas Nix would work on all of them
<__monty__>
infinisil: Tbf, apt-get and pacman also work on many distros.
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<__monty__>
It's only a solution if you accept having to install a package manager to install a package.
<infinisil>
__monty__: Why "many" and not "all"?
<__monty__>
Because I figure they wouldn't work on nixos without being packaged specifically for it, for example : >
<sphalerite>
__monty__: not with the standard repos, i.e. they will most likely break things horribly if you install debian's apt using apt on fedora.
<__monty__>
sphalerite: I'm not saying nix doesn't make this easier. It just irks me that people call this out specifically as a feature of *nix* while, really it's been possible with most package managers forever.
<__monty__>
Also, the "install package manager Y first" answer is not very UX friendly if all you want to do is install package X.
<infinisil>
Are these instructions valid on almost all distros without extra steps? 1. Install apt-get 2. Install package foo with apt-get
<sphalerite>
__monty__: but the design which makes this kind of system-breaking collision impossible _is_ a feature of nix
<__monty__>
infinisil: Basically.
<infinisil>
Why basically and not exactly?
<__monty__>
It's just the usual trouble with dynamic library versions and stuff.
<sphalerite>
because it will break your system if you're on fedora.
<infinisil>
Like, trouble you wouldn't have with Nix :P
<__monty__>
infinisil: Sure but "some things that wouldn't have worked will now work because of nix" is a much less convincing (and more honest) answer than "nix is this special sauce that makes this possible." Let's not be Apple.
<sphalerite>
__monty__: you could make an apt PPA that contains packages which can be installed on other distros safely. But with nix, it's a feature of the package manager that — regardless of hte package set — it isn't _possible_ for a package to break your system like that.
<sphalerite>
That's why I think your comparison to apt and pacman isn't a good argument.
<sphalerite>
or rather, why you can't equate them.
<__monty__>
Think of it this way. I'm an ardent apt supporter. You claim "Nix makes it possible to install software on any distro." I go talk to my posse, find out apt *can* be used on any distro (*caveats may apply; but I don't care, being an ardent apt supporter), now I have an argument to use against nix that might convince a lot of people that would otherwise be on the fence.
<MichaelRaskin>
We actually should encourage people using apt to install software on Fedora
<sphalerite>
While nix can be used to install software on any distro _safely_ :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Preferably without encouraging them to take reasonable precautions
<sphalerite>
MichaelRaskin: that seems destructive and counterproductive.
<MichaelRaskin>
But educational!
<sphalerite>
It might be a bit amusing depending on how much of a sadist you are, but it's not going to convince anyone that those nix people who made me break my system are nice people whose software I want to use.
<samueldr>
probably some phrasing about the (weak?) isolation of the built products can help here?
<adisbladis>
Oh god.. We really need some macos community build machines :/
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, if you reveal you are a Nix person _and_ encourage people to use apt, it will look like a trap from the get go
<__monty__>
adisbladis: Github actions?
<adisbladis>
__monty__: Not good enough if you need builds that take hours
<adisbladis>
(?)
<adisbladis>
IME most CIs are terrible when coupled with nix
<MichaelRaskin>
Not so much Nix, but Nixpkgs…
<MichaelRaskin>
(I guess anything with long rebuild/test times would be annoying)
<adisbladis>
MichaelRaskin: Well yes..
<adisbladis>
And all CI offerings have pretty broken caching
<adisbladis>
Unless you run your own build machines that is
<__monty__>
adisbladis: Maybe we can talk gchristensen into it?
<adisbladis>
__monty__: Someone would have to pay for it
<samueldr>
even then, there are other huge issues
<samueldr>
mainly sandboxing issues (samt issue with ofborg)
<samueldr>
and then, licensing issues
<adisbladis>
Well, I don't really care about sandboxing & security for testing
<samueldr>
(which I guess is "someone would have to pay")
<samueldr>
sure, but it's still something that needs to be considered with a shared community builder
<adisbladis>
I just want to see what's broken :) Not really use the built binaries on any real system
<adisbladis>
++
<adisbladis>
Macos support is great to have, but a pita in practice
<adisbladis>
I think I'll resort to setting up a vm... again
<tazjin>
nixery now does arm64, via a meta-package. For example `docker run nixery.dev/arm64/hello hello` should work on an arm machine
<sphalerite>
tazjin: should as in you haven't tested it? :p
<tazjin>
sphalerite: CI runs on arm64 & amd64, so I have tested it to the best of my ability :P
<sphalerite>
ah, nice work! :D
<sphalerite>
(would be even if you haadn't tested it, but, you know, cherry on top and all that)
<sphalerite>
typing is so much harder with a abd internet connection
<sphalerite>
or in other words, tazjin++
<{^_^}>
tazjin's karma got increased to 16
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<colemickens>
I'm impressed at how utter animal waste the reddit ui gets after clicking on just a few posts and scrolling a couple pages.
<colemickens>
can spike my cpu to 20% and just stutter all over the place
<worldofpeace>
lol, and you'd think there was a bitcoin minner in it.
<MichaelRaskin>
You are using www. and not old. ??
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<infinisil>
Aw man seriously, I just replaced the SDD of my desktop, and now my laptop's SSD is also failing!
<__monty__>
Aw man I just replaced the GPU of one device and now the CPU of my other device is failing too. : >
<infinisil>
And the worst: I would have a replacement SSD for my mac, but I don't have a screwdriver that could open the case -.-
<__monty__>
Ouch.
<__monty__>
Torx?
<infinisil>
__monty__: Yeah, but a tiny one
<infinisil>
Like 1.2mm
<infinisil>
The smallest I have is 1.4mm
<__monty__>
And I suppose you don't have a 1mm inbus?
<samueldr>
not saying you should buy a mac again... but most portable computers are becoming less and less repairable
<samueldr>
you might be able to open it, but not be able to repair it
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, with laptops from actual manufacturers you can replace storage, and often RAM and WiFi
<samueldr>
less and less readily available, though, that's my point
<samueldr>
so you have to do better due diligence research
<MichaelRaskin>
I think _storage_ replacement (and storage is laughably unreliable, more than any other part) is available with most things
<samueldr>
things seem to progress to flipping a coin on that subject
<samueldr>
annoyingly
<samueldr>
and RAM is now much less of a given
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, Apple nd Microsoft and Sony _start_ in my blacklist no matter what
<MichaelRaskin>
With RAM yes…
<MichaelRaskin>
(and often enough it is physically replaceable but BIOS doesn't support larger amounts)
<MichaelRaskin>
I have heard tails about SSD… extraction(?) out of Surface, yeah.
<MichaelRaskin>
Of course Greenpeace would never campaign for the ban of Surface devices just because of that. That would be Greenpeace doing something nondestructive
<samueldr>
the new surface X has a hatch and M.2 2230 SSDs
<samueldr>
which is an interesting development
<samueldr>
considering how their (now current) surface has a better repairability score from iFixit than the previous ones
<samueldr>
still, that's microsoft, so anything non-windows is a crapshoot...
<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe to go _down_ they would need to add some explosives to the critical points
<samueldr>
... though, that's not much better on windows-running non-microsoft devices necessarily
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: exactly!
<samueldr>
their worst one was glued fabric
<MichaelRaskin>
I know right
<MichaelRaskin>
Then there is a way to brick that version on some low BIOS level
<MichaelRaskin>
A very nice combo
<samueldr>
neat!
<MichaelRaskin>
Apparently repair shops are surprised when they manage to get the SSD without the screen glass shattering
<MichaelRaskin>
(they were paid to get SSD in a state where standard HW would read it, the device was recognised as not worth fixing at that point)
<MichaelRaskin>
(this is a story I haven't participated in, but heard from the person who carried the surface to the repair shop)
<MichaelRaskin>
So yeah, repairability has gone up, because down falls under munitions export control
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<MichaelRaskin>
Hm. I really hope that nix#3217 doesn't claim that Flutter expects to write to its installation directory as non-root.