<samueldr>
I just realised I'm terrible at networking :|
<samueldr>
(with people, and with computers)
<samueldr>
I don't remember who I met during NixCon who had contacts at FairPhone...
<pie__>
sounds like a taking notes situation :P
<gchristensen>
samueldr: those are people you write down and email as soon as you get back to the hotel :P
<samueldr>
yeaaaaaaah
<samueldr>
that's what I said: I'm terrible at it!
<gchristensen>
you'll get better :)
<colemickens>
If a company distributes. as a binary, an OSS software with their own patches, and also distributes the source code and/or patches, what is the legality of someone simply submitting those changes as a patch upstream from a disposable email address?
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<colemickens>
I'm actually rather impressed at the landing page for SAPMachine, for what was running through my head when I clicked on it.
<gchristensen>
colemickens: I think the customer is allowed to do that
<gchristensen>
colemickens: at the same time, the company is allowed to stop providing future patches to that customer
<gchristensen>
like this could happen to grsec I think
<colemickens>
gchristensen: does this imply that I must be able to prove (or must prove at time of code submission) that I was a (licensed?) customer entitled to said source?
<colemickens>
Can I not as a customer redistribute that to a third party entity who then (unattached to me) might submit such code?
<gchristensen>
with GPL patches to the software are also GPL
* colemickens
nods
<gchristensen>
so no
<gchristensen>
there are no restrictions on you sharing the GPL'd patches
<gchristensen>
oh I see, how would they know you did it?
<colemickens>
I suppose, yeah. I'm trying to imagine how it could play out. They see their patches on an ML, look at the email address, and either (1) realize it's a disposable email that is likely to not have been a licensed customer, or (2) that it's ME and try to come after me or cut me off, or whatever for the sake of argument.
<gchristensen>
obviously I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice
<pie__>
also something something fingerprinting
<gchristensen>
maybe they somehow encode a customer ID in to the patch with steganography =)
<pie__>
samueldr: what makes the android kernel different from mainline anyway, besides device drivers
<colemickens>
it's actually nicely publicly linked from a licensing document included with the download (a link which is public and contained in many linux distributions' package sets).
<samueldr>
pie__: in the pictures, there's a graph with arrows
<samueldr>
mainline releases a stable version... THEN google adds their crapload of patches over top, THEN the SOC vendor forks a *static* version of that, THEN the OEM vendor gets a *static* version of that
<samueldr>
so you get like a year to two year old release with a crapload of patches
<samueldr>
at best
<samueldr>
so porting updates is not trivial
<pie__>
i mean whats in the crapload of google patches
<pie__>
why is android not linix
<pie__>
linuy
<samueldr>
you can do it
<pie__>
whatever you know what i mean
<samueldr>
:D
<pie__>
x'D
<samueldr>
most of the time it's features from newer kernel, backported
<samueldr>
or misfeatures specific for android
<samueldr>
which can't easily be mainlined
<samueldr>
that's the android team's fork
<pie__>
i think i might be asking about the latter
<samueldr>
then, the SOC vendor adds their drivers
<samueldr>
they write them without even considering mainlining
<samueldr>
it's pump and dump
<samueldr>
then get to the next SOC
<samueldr>
(SOC being the generation of CPU)
<samueldr>
then, the OEM adds different magic sauces on top of the SOC drivers... sometimes drivers for specific hardware, again not written with mainlining in min
<samueldr>
mind*
<pie__>
samueldr: how's stuff going btw
<samueldr>
android misfeatures... I don't have a list
<pie__>
i cant imagine how much work an avid nixoser is getting done full time :P
<samueldr>
pixel 2 port was apparently working in the end
<samueldr>
now I'm working on pinephone stuff
<pie__>
spacekookie: i just remembered our group talk about the whole hardware testing automation stuff, cant remember where we got besides "maybe at some point" but i think we were talking about mobile stuff?
<samueldr>
though hitting roadblocks at misc. points
<pie__>
spacekookie: just because maybe samueldr would be interested in such as well
<samueldr>
I might have to get my hands dirty in writing driver code for the pinephone, which is a scary (not really) new thing
<pie__>
samueldr: no i dont have a solution someone just had some seemingly nice infra for x86 platform testing
<gchristensen>
I was dreaming about doing that with AMT...
<samueldr>
gchristensen: just saying... it looks relatively trivial :)
<gchristensen>
:D
<pie__>
idk if the guys that do it are on ir
<pie__>
irc
<colemickens>
samueldr: surely you're not the only point running into such issues with the pinephone? are people who might be writing drivers for it across various projects (postmarketos, etc) collaborating on efforts?
<samueldr>
looks like, like for the PBP, most efforts are on the kernel
<samueldr>
and leaving u-boot with nothing
<samueldr>
so when your boot will fail with all their OS, no way to know why
<samueldr>
:/
<samueldr>
and, admittedly I wasn't following much in the last few months
<samueldr>
not entirely sure what's the status of stuff
<samueldr>
and it's hard to get the right info
<pie__>
hmhm
<pie__>
low level code is black magic to me
* colemickens
dreams of a PinePhone dual booting Nix-built-ReplicantOS and NixOS.
<pie__>
heh
<pie__>
anyone here good with cgroups
<pie__>
i still havent limited the ram of my firefoxes.....
<pie__>
its the main reason im not improving my nixos config
<samueldr>
colemickens: I'm not sure what the support will look like day one
<samueldr>
and then, day 100
<samueldr>
(once the device is in the hands of end-users)
<colemickens>
I'm thankful folks are working on it, I'll actually be most excited if there is still interest/develop/community at day 200 (/me glances at Librem5, etc)
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<Church->
I hope so. Looking at samueldr's work on mobile nixOS with interest haha
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<eyJhb>
Any good ways to have a simple way, to start a specific "workspace"? E.g. using i3 I normally start my PDF viewer and have two tabs in my terminal (for editing and for compiling), but would be nice to just have a way of saying "start this", and it would
<eyJhb>
tilpner: I have looked at that, but doesn't seem like it has the ability to open terminals in X directory and X pdf file I guess
<tilpner>
eyJhb: AFAIUI you write a script that does ( cd $WORKDIR; evince foo.pdf ) &
<tilpner>
But I must admit to only having tried it a long while ago, and deciding to just keep my laptop turned on :c
<eyJhb>
I wish I could do that... :/ But not easy when transporting it around, and *sigh* DisplayLink doesn't play nice with hotswapping it in/out...
<eyJhb>
Also, wondering... Am I weird for only having two columns and X rows when working with i3? I feel like having anymore is hard to manage in regards to how it places windows etc.
<tilpner>
eyJhb: My battery is terrible, but it's usually good enough to last a day on suspend when at 100% previously
<tilpner>
Doesn't help that my laptop now shuts down when the battery says "50%"...
<tilpner>
eyJhb: So I only restart every time I upgrade nixpkgs, which is about every 2 or 3 weeks
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<eyJhb>
srhb: how good are you at dependency graphs?
<sphalerite>
eyJhb: I often don't even go that far, except within tmux
<sphalerite>
eyJhb: as in, I usually just have a bunch of single-window workspaces
<srhb>
eyJhb: Insofar as I let nix handle it for me, and Nix is great at it, transitively I am too
<spacekookie>
pie__: Hey, yea. "maybe at some point" was the impression I got as well :)
<eyJhb>
srhb: I wish Nix could do it for my report... But that is not how it works :p
<eyJhb>
spacekookie: I have considered it as well! Using tmux that is
<spacekookie>
Hm?
<__monty__>
Erroneous ping.
<spacekookie>
tmux is cool though
<__monty__>
Yep, it's great that you can get the same setup you use on a remote server. None of the tiling WMs can do that.
<adisbladis>
__monty__: Emacs (exwm) can do that :)
<sphalerite>
adisbladis: if only emacs could do wayland :(
<adisbladis>
sphalerite: I wish
<eyJhb>
Yeah sorry spacekookie I meant sphalerite :(
<__monty__>
adisbladis: OSes don't count >: |
<__monty__>
; )
<etu>
__monty__: But exwm is great ;)
<adisbladis>
Ugh... Lots of breakage today
<talyz>
exwm <3
<eyJhb>
^^^ Sweden unite
<eyJhb>
:p
<adisbladis>
^_^
<talyz>
...but yeah, wayland would be nice. Doesn't look like emacs will get wayland support any time soon, though :/
<adisbladis>
talyz: I'm still playing with the idea of somehow tying together kwin & emacs
<adisbladis>
But... Too many projects
<__monty__>
I've never gotten into tiling. None of the layouts work for me. Maybe I should bite the bullet and write some myself.
<talyz>
eyJhb: all swedes use exwm, you know ;)
<FireFly>
..exwm? :p
<talyz>
adisbladis: That would be really cool
<adisbladis>
talyz: It's a statistical fact :)
<adisbladis>
FireFly: Emacs window manager
<FireFly>
o
<talyz>
adisbladis: exactly!
<etu>
FireFly: We can help you set it up during 36c3 if you like ;)
<etu>
exwm probably have like hundreds of users or so
<FireFly>
I like herbstluftwm as it is :p
<FireFly>
...and vim ;p
<etu>
FireFly: you can run evil mode and have vi-bindings for your WM :p
<adisbladis>
FireFly: Emacs is a better vim than vim ;)
<FireFly>
you might be right about that
<FireFly>
I tried emacs & evil a li'l, maybe should give it another shot someday, hehe
<eyJhb>
talyz: well! Now I have to play dirty, but does Molly use it, huh? :D
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: If not then Molly is not a swede
<talyz>
eyJhb: well, no..
<adisbladis>
EXWM is a requisite for swedish citizenship
<talyz>
eyJhb: ..not yet!
<eyJhb>
talyz: DEPORT MOLLY TO DENMARK!
<eyJhb>
I don't know what our official Linux requirement is.. I might need to consult with srhb and adamt
<sphalerite>
talyz: adisbladis: yeah, I've started running emacs in a terminal again because it sucks in xwayland
<adisbladis>
:O
<adisbladis>
I cant imagine going back to terminal emacs
<adisbladis>
sphalerite: Is it that bad in xwayland?
<__monty__>
Only used emacs for a little while but have to say the -nw experience was kinda painful.
<sphalerite>
well, probably not in general, but with multiple monitors having different scaling factors, it gets horribly blurry
<adisbladis>
Ahh, makes sense
<adisbladis>
I "solve" that by only having one massive monitor
<eyJhb>
I never really want to go back out of my terminal..
<eyJhb>
If I were to run emacs it would be terminal as well
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Emacs is a _much_ better experience outside of the terminal
<sphalerite>
nah, emacs really is better in graphical
<talyz>
sphalerite: yeah, that's my main issue as well - my current "solution" is to not scale :/
<sphalerite>
it feels like a terminal but can do nice things like variable-width fonts and mixing font sizes.
<adisbladis>
I often have different font sizes for different buffers :)
<sphalerite>
it's like the next step from a plain terminal.
<adisbladis>
I'm starting to use eshell a lot these days
<talyz>
it would be nice if emacs dropped some of the "pretending everything is a terminal"-mindset and use gtk a bit better
<sphalerite>
let's rewrite emacs! /s
<talyz>
yay~
<adisbladis>
sphalerite: In rust!
<sphalerite>
it _is_ very nice that emacs _can_ run in a terminal though
<talyz>
sphalerite: indeed, I think it should still be possible, but the modes need to be decoupled..
<sphalerite>
it's also funny how I need to deactivate and reactivate xterm-mouse-mode whenever I want to use the mouse in a newly opened client
<__monty__>
I think it only works *because* they're entwined.
<__monty__>
You'd probably end up with a crufty terminal implementation no one uses and therefore no one wants to work on otherwise.
<adisbladis>
__monty__: I think you're underestimating just how many people still use the terminal interface
<__monty__>
I don't think so. I only checked out emacs for a number of weeks. So-called "emacsers" I talked to had no idea of all the drawbacks attached to running in a terminal.
<__monty__>
Splitting the two up more would just cause divergence.
<__monty__>
And split up the team somewhat, because some people might only care about one way of using emacs.
<talyz>
__monty__: that's entirely possible - it at least seems to be the case with support for old X toolkits that almost no one uses any more
<__monty__>
I think it's the reason for sticking with the "technical debt" of limiting yourself (mostly) to what terminals can do.
<qyliss>
The glib-compile-schemas thing won't be necessary on more recent revs because I made a PR to fix it
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<talyz>
qyliss: cool, I'll definitely try it out! :)
<etu>
qyliss: Nice! Thanks for that link :)
<gchristensen>
amazing to know that Emacs has 140,000 commits and NixOS has 200,000
<gchristensen>
qyliss: so I built it and I'm trying to run it, but it defaults to running in the console. did you have to do anything psecial to make it run as a window?
<gchristensen>
oops
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<infinisil>
Why are you screwing with me, Apple
<infinisil>
A couple days ago it deleted a bunch of my mail folders, including contents
<infinisil>
And now I got an email saying I don't have any icloud space left so I can't receive mail anymore..
<das_j>
I'm currently evaluating a container/VM solution where I can quickly spin up a testing network. I hereby regret writing my Firewall in nftables, nobody supports it :/
<samueldr>
does "nf" stand for "no fun"?
<das_j>
Currently looks like I'm going with Vagrant with the libvirt provider as libvirt will use firewalld if available which will use nftables if available
<das_j>
samueldr: It would be a lot of fun if anybody else used it
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<pie__>
iirc nftables is supposed to be good though?
<pie__>
or am i just making stuff up
<pie__>
also apparently firewall rules are in ebpf these days...(?)
* pie__
wonders how he can get the systemd maintainers to look at his issue without being obnoxious
<gchristensen>
drop a link to it in #nixos
<gchristensen>
,pr pie__
<{^_^}>
pie__: 0. Sorry. 1. If you complain about PR being in limbo, always provide a number («I have an unmerged PR (#23924)…»), bot will print PR title and it might bring you an impulse-merge. 2. Please look up who commits similar work and ping these people (or request-review), keeping up with all the PRs is not really possible.
<samueldr>
wondering if pie__ meant _systemd_ maintainer or systemd maintainers _in nixos_ :)
<samueldr>
(I assumed the first)
<pie__>
the former :P
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<ashkitten>
re: earlier android kernel discussion: why are oems not forced to release sources for their custom kernels?
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<samueldr>
"they are"
<samueldr>
they generally do
<samueldr>
but some don't care
<samueldr>
if none did, no alternative android roms would exist, and projects like pmOS and Mobile NixOS wouldn't really either
<ashkitten>
ah
<ashkitten>
but they don't want to upstream anything?
<samueldr>
that's it :)
<samueldr>
most layers don't care about putting it in a shape that's upstreamable
<ashkitten>
i dont get the point of that
<ashkitten>
oh
<samueldr>
it's pump and dump
<ashkitten>
because they write shit code that works
<samueldr>
once it "works", they go on building the next device
<ashkitten>
fair enough
<ashkitten>
and ofc they wouldn't bother writing generic drivers for multiple devices i assume
<samueldr>
that's because "uid" is not simply a number, necessarily... without USER_NS it is... but with USER_NS it becomes a more complex structure :)
<ashkitten>
and i assume it'd be far too much work to try and turn the garbage into workable upstream drivers?
<samueldr>
I think the solution is in-between
<samueldr>
not working from clean room / clean slate
<samueldr>
but not necessarily starting from the bad drivers
<samueldr>
I'm not sure yet, haven't worked on *that* yet
<samueldr>
one thing I want to do first is make an inventory of the devices I work with, maybe there is shared hardware, and different drivers
<samueldr>
that would be interesting to see if there are upgrades to those drivers
<samueldr>
or even in other source trees
<ashkitten>
hm
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<andi->
pie__: mind sharing a link to the upstream issue?