gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<ashkitten> currently stuck trying to figure out a good way to display errors in my fs without crashing
<ashkitten> frustrating that i'm not given a way to report why an error occurred to the application
<ashkitten> ash i know what you're thinking and i s2g if you use the pid of the program that made the call to shove things onto its stderr...
<ashkitten> NO
<ashkitten> hmm, but that would technically work if it was running as the same user, right?
<ashkitten> stop. bad.
<ashkitten> also i keep glancing over at my lamp and blinding myself
<samueldr> when are the errors happening?
<samueldr> like, if a user modifies a file on the FS, it shouldn't be an error, right? that should be seamlessly serialized into the target yml file?
<samueldr> I guess if a user edits the target yml file, and it is now invalid?
<samueldr> maybe empty the FS and replace by a single file with the error?
<samueldr> though that would be rude :/
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<ashkitten> samueldr: no, i mean like if the user tries to write invalid values to the files on the fs
<samueldr> what would be bad values? (sorry if I sound daft)
<ashkitten> yaml values are typed, and for my own sanity i'm requiring that strings be wrapped in quotes
<samueldr> ah, I think I understand what you mean
<samueldr> and now I don't want to be in your situation :)
<ashkitten> :)
<ashkitten> i think i'll buffer all writes and wait until the file is closed to validate
<ashkitten> so things like an intermediate truncate() won't be awful
<samueldr> could you replace the node with a comment indicating it's invalid?
<ashkitten> uhm
<ashkitten> hmm
<samueldr> (and what are you doing with comments?)
<ashkitten> seems janky
<ashkitten> comments are ignored because they're not part of the underlying yaml
<ashkitten> er
<ashkitten> they're not represented in the value, so they don't count as part of the filesystem
<ashkitten> honestly? i should just scrap this and go for something like ini where it's just string values
<ashkitten> awful awful awful
<ashkitten> files were never meant for this
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<eyJhb> WIsh me luck
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<joepie91> ashkitten: TOML?
<ashkitten> joepie91: toml is also typed
<joepie91> hm, right
<ashkitten> toml is just json again, like yaml
<ashkitten> toml is just json for ini
<andi-> json is just fancy for a binary blob?
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<pie_> ashkitten: why dont you have a status file that must be checked after every op
<pie_> sure its not failing on the ops themselves but if thres no way to do that ..
<ashkitten> pie_: cursed
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<eyJhb> Damn, no luck wisihing. But finished my half maraton, with only having run 5 km once beforehand. Think I might die
<averell> don't forget to stretch before. will feel much better in the coffin.
<eyJhb> First time I tried stretching today pretty much.. But I still feel like I won't be able to walk tomorrow
<averell> probably not the day after either :) grats anyway.
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<Lukas4452> Hey, thanks for this awesome OS
<Lukas4452> almost have no problems with it
<Lukas4452> and its easier to set up than arch
<Lukas4452> good woor
<Lukas4452> *work
<eyJhb> averell: just woke up and thought I will try. So breakfast was 2 pieces of white bread and chocolate :p
<joepie91> Lukas4452: welcome to the dark side :P
<Lukas4452> hehe
<gchristensen> Lukas4452: woohoo! welcome to the community :) (surely you'll find things which are harder than arch, though.)
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<Lukas4452> well, one thing
<Lukas4452> teamspeak
<Lukas4452> the rest is perfect
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<eyJhb> Lukas4452: teamspeak?
<eyJhb> There is teamspeak_client and teamspeak_server
<manveru> maybe audio issues?
<manveru> dunno, always worked fine for me
<eyJhb> outdated I guess, I never use Teamspeak
<eyJhb> I love that teamspeak is under "instant-messengers"
<Lukas4452> it crashes instanly and needs to be updated
<__monty__> I guess "chat" would be a better category since it subsumes text, voice and video.
<__monty__> And many modern chat clients do all of the above.
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<joepie91> so... just to confirm, when I set services.openssh.passwordAuthentication = false, but PAM is enabled and implements keyboard-interactive, that *cannot* be used to do password authentication, right?
<eyJhb> joepie91: not as far as I know
<eyJhb> So only key authentication I would assume
<joepie91> !tofu
<joepie91> eyJhb: right, thanks, I hope that's the case then :P
<joepie91> ,tofu
<{^_^}> To get a sha256 hash of a new source, you can use the Trust On First Use model: use probably-wrong hash (for example: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) then replace it with the correct hash Nix expected.
<joepie91> is it me, or is cache.nixos.org super slow today?
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<andi-> since today swaybar is crashing somewhere in libwayland-cursor. It correlates with using qemu (through the gtk UI) and takes a while before it crashes... Eventually firefox also starts crashing at the same location o.O
<andi-> anyone else seen that?
<eyJhb> joepie91: np :D
<eyJhb> I should switch my server to NixOS soon...
<eyJhb> Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon!
<joepie91> and my first morph-deployed machine is online! http://machine-haless-03.cryto.net/
<__monty__> Migrating away from nixops or trying morph first?
<joepie91> trying morph first, but intending to migrate away from nixops
<joepie91> too many moving parts, too much complexity that I don't need or care about
<joepie91> I find morph much easier to reason about :)
<manveru> :)
<eyJhb> joepie91: 404 not found? :p
<gchristensen> anybody like spiders?
<eyJhb> gchristensen: which ones you thinking of?
<eyJhb> The web crawl spiders, or the 8 legged guys?
<eyJhb> 6 legged?
<eyJhb> Many legged guys**
<gchristensen> New Zealand tunnelweb spiders
<gchristensen> https://twitter.com/erincpow/status/1153086184664399872 some really nice photos here
<__monty__> gchristensen: I love spiders.
<joepie91> eyJhb: yes, means there's a webserver running :)
<joepie91> eyJhb: I haven't actually moved over all the crap to it yet
<joepie91> working on that now
<joepie91> I expect moving over an ancient mysql from an ancient debian box to be a minor nightmare
<gchristensen> should be fine
<__monty__> A jumping spider has recently decided to become my pet: https://i.imgur.com/bsNUBUl.jpg
<gchristensen> d'aww
<eyJhb> joepie91: faster, faster!
<eyJhb> I feel like you like spiders gchristensen ? :p
<gchristensen> I do like spiders
<gchristensen> I especially like to admire them from afar
<eyJhb> What about up close?
<samueldr> I feel most dislike the idea of spiders invading one's personal space; e.g. their pillow, their clothing, their mouth
<gchristensen> I don't mind them much up close, but I don't particularly love them on me
<gchristensen> samueldr: seems right
<eyJhb> samueldr: I once got payback from a Spider...
<eyJhb> Tried to kill it before bedtime because my now ex-girlfriend is NOT a fan. Ran under the bed, thought "fuck it".. Went to sleep, 5 minutes later it was crawling on my face
<eyJhb> Luckily spiders in DK are small. I have no clue what it would be like to kill a spider that cannot fit into tissuepaper
<samueldr> I think those places simply evolve bigger tissue paper
<__monty__> I like them on me, that way you can get a much closer look. Always worry about squashing them though.
<gchristensen> I grew up with https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/8925927_f520.jpg around ... they're a bit intimidating (banana spiders)
<samueldr> oof, intimidating you say?
<eyJhb> samueldr: "bigger tissue paper", dear God. But the feel of squashing something the side of your thumb, nope
<__monty__> Wow, that's gorgeous.
<eyJhb> gchristensen: also a hard nope from me :D
<samueldr> I think those people simply evolve bigger thumbs
<samueldr> ;)
<eyJhb> s/the side/the size/
<eyJhb> So please don't! WOuld not enjoy
<gchristensen> a few weeks ago I learned about Spider Twitter. a subculture of people who like and post pictures of spiders
<__monty__> Nix-bundle looks awesome.
<joepie91> eyJhb: I think my MySQL just worked, after copying /var/lib/mysql?
* joepie91 casts a suspicious glance
<joepie91> this was too easy, what did I miss
<gchristensen> you have such low expectations of one of the most operable DBMS ever.
<joepie91> gchristensen: literally every single time I've tried to migrate a MySQL in the past, I ended up having to debug cryptic error messages for at least an hour :)
<gchristensen> weird
<joepie91> so my expectations have been... primed
<gchristensen> I've done many thousands without trouble
<eyJhb> gchristensen: the key is to have low expectations about everything
<joepie91> also that
<joepie91> anyway, I guess that the MySQL bit is done now then :P
<gchristensen> lol
<joepie91> time for FPM..
<eyJhb> Then you are either 1. Not disappointed at all 2. In a constant state of disappointment
<kraem> gchristensen: wow what a good shot of the spider!
<pie_> how2github?: why cant i reply to the second entry in this?: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/64047#pullrequestreview-267514631
<pie_> there's no reply field
<joepie91> pie_: not for me either
<pie_> wtf..
<gchristensen> dunno. tehre is one inline with the code
<pie_> aha... "We went looking everywhere, but couldn’t find those commits."
<pie_> if i click on the file name
<pie_> wtf is going on here
<samueldr> old revision's comment I guess
<gchristensen> seems they force-pushed
<pie_> still weird of github to have the comment but not allow replying
<gchristensen> yeah
<pie_> this makes me kind of angry, or frustrated, not sure :( https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/64047#issuecomment-515784270
<pie_> basically missing functionality because of a phase override
<pie_> not sure what to do about it architecturally speaking
<pie_> either the original code got updated with additional stuff and it became out of sync, or th override was just not thorough
<pie_> the way to avoid that is add more hooks/
<pie_> ?
<gchristensen> #nixos-dev
<eyJhb> Wait.. Is #nixos support, #nixos-chat is... misc, #nixos-dev is when one wants to work on Nix?
<gchristensen> pretty much
<gchristensen> though #nixos-dev may not be the appropriate place for "my first package" conversation
<eyJhb> Curious, is there a actual owner of NixOS?
<gchristensen> NixOS the name? NixOS the project?
<eyJhb> THe project
<gchristensen> I would say Eelco Dolstra and The NixOS Foundation owns it
<eyJhb> Hmm, just never heard or seen him in the chat
<gchristensen> you probabl yhave
<eyJhb> gchristensen: nick?
<gchristensen> niksnut
<eyJhb> Hmm, not as I reacall. Is he active in #nixos?
<gchristensen> not especially
<samueldr> not much, but answers sometimes
<gchristensen> he helps out here and there
<eyJhb> Guessing with that many contributors, it isn't needed that much :p But yeah, dunno.
<gchristensen> sure
<joepie91> does anybody have an example of a *working* nginx + php-fpm setup? I'm just getting blank pages with nothing in the journalctl, even at debug log level
<samueldr> this is so weird to me "Mem:62.9G used:1.96G buffers:21.9G cache:29.1G"
<samueldr> since I stopped using the workstation for daily use, it's sitting as a builder, and building generally doesn't need ram :/
<samueldr> (it's currently under load!)
<gchristensen> so you're surprised it isn't using more, or it is using this much?
<samueldr> neither, weird to have so much resource, unused
<gchristensen> ohh yeah
<gchristensen> I might have a way for you to use more of it ... :)
<samueldr> if only I could mount this for $BROWSER use on my computer
<samueldr> or if nx was still usable
<samueldr> (I'd sit the browser session on the remote session if it was)
<samueldr> kinda bummed about how in 2008 I was using NX daily like a tmux, but for the desktop, and today there's nothing quite like it :/
<gchristensen> what is nx?
<samueldr> >> Starting in 2013, with the release of version 4.0, NX became closed-source.
<gchristensen> oh no
<samueldr> the pre-2013 version was so good
<samueldr> and AFAIK the closed source variant is as good, but I'm not interested in closed
<joepie91> samueldr: thanks, will have a look
<__monty__> joepie91: Would an arch setup help?
<joepie91> __monty__: possibly, as a reference? dunno
<__monty__> Ok, let me now if you need it.
<ajs124> joepie91: I deploy lots of php-fpm with nginx. Including tt-rss and nextcloud. What does your config currently look like?
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<joepie91> ajs124: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/eb8c448a44fcea1b880df81e42a9cc36 -- it's a somewhat heaped together pile of settings, trying to get it to work, so some stuff may be superfluous by now
<ajs124> hm. what is your root set to? you use $document_root, but where does that point?
<joepie91> ajs124: nothing actually, I've been using `alias` for everything so far to point specific subpaths at specific things
<ajs124> then why do you set "fastcgi_param SCRIPT_FILENAME $document_root/$fastcgi_script_name;"? what happens without that setting?
<joepie91> ajs124: because I literally copypasted it from some other example config :) without it, I still get a blank page
<ajs124> anything in the nginx logs?
<ajs124> what http status code do you get with that blank page?
<gchristensen> anything in journalctl?
<joepie91> ajs124: gchristensen: HTTP 200 status code, absolutely nothing whatsoever in journalctl for any service
<joepie91> (other than the periodic "this is how many workers are running" debug message due to the debug log level)
<gchristensen> catch_workers_output = yes <- you might want this
<joepie91> gchristensen: added that option, still zero in journalctl
<joepie91> catch_workers_output that is
<gchristensen> these nginx logging params should probably be upstreamed
<samueldr> is php-fpm logging to journalctl even? we still have random bits and bobs logging to /var/
<gchristensen> the only thing in /var/log other than journalctl is rabbitmq
<gchristensen> 's crash logs
<joepie91> samueldr: it's logging debug output so yeah
<joepie91> just no correlation to requests being made
<joepie91> gchristensen: the network config you linked doesn't appear to specify the FPM socket in the nginx config?
<samueldr> good, just saying in case it wasn't thought of already
<gchristensen> which specific link?
<gchristensen> right
<joepie91> welp, I've managed to make it 404 now
<joepie91> by taking your SCRIPT_FILENAME approach
<joepie91> still nothing in journalctl
<joepie91> gchristensen: I've managed to make it slightly less broken. copied your fastcgi_params include, and now the 404 actually tells me "File not found." instead of being a blank page
<joepie91> removed SCRIPT_FILENAME, and then I got a blank page 200 gain
<joepie91> still nothing in logs
<gchristensen> weird
<joepie91> this should not be this hard to get working :/
<gchristensen> makes me long for the simple days of mod_php
<gchristensen> joepie91: try #nixos? maybe some proper support could help
<joepie91> dunno, I tend to get better answers here :P
<gchristensen> (yeah but it is off topic)
<joepie91> or answers at all, really; questions often end up unanswered in #nixos in my experience, at least my questions
<joepie91> so it seems that php-fpm just doesn't play nice with `alias`
<joepie91> welp, that's not expressable in NixOS' nginx module
<joepie91> extraConfig it is, I suppose
<infinisil> joepie91: It's a bit unfortunate that rfcs#42 doesn't really work for nginx due to its weird config file format
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/42 (by Infinisil, 18 weeks ago, open): [RFC 0042] NixOS config options
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<joepie91> gchristensen: still not working. I give up for tonight
<das_j> hm, can anyone send my the whois of me?
<gchristensen> (~jannehess@2a01:4f8:c010:15f6::1): @janne.hess:efcloud.co
<das_j> gchristensen: thanks :)
<manveru> hmm
<das_j> is anyone here using wayland?
<gchristensen> several :)
<das_j> noice. are you using a standard DE?
<gchristensen> I use sway
<das_j> awesome, I'm currently building one
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<das_j> didn't work with displaylink last time 😕 so I'm switching to unstable now
<gchristensen> oh cool
<das_j> do you have some public config?
<das_j> awesome! thank you :)
<infinisil-m> My phone is slowly falling apart, it's often almost impossible to type anybody
<infinisil-m> So I thought of giving matrix another go, in the hopes to use https://github.com/tulir/mautrix-whatsapp
<infinisil-m> So I'm not reliant on my phone anymore for talking to all my contacts
<infinisil-m> Aand, while giving matrx another go, I just discovered that the fractal client just released a new version yesterday :)
<infinisil-m> Let's see if this new version has something neat
<infinisil-m> (will make PR)
<infinisil-m> I'll probably end up just using weechat though
<das_j> infinisil-m: Yes you are
<das_j> mautrix-whatsapp will behave like a whatsapp web client
<das_j> which needs a phone (or an emulator if you get it to work)
<infinisil-m> das_j: Yeah, would be cool if I could get the emulator working with a NixOS module
<infinisil-m> My hopes aren't very high though
<das_j> get a cheap 50€ phone and place it somewhere in wifi range
<kraem> anyone running their browser in a docker container?
<infinisil-m> das_j: Like, in wifi range next to the server that will be running mautrix-whatsapp?
<das_j> <infinisil-m "das_j: Like, in wifi range next "> nah, it just needs to access the whatsapp servers. just put it into wifi range at home, give it power 24/7 and prevent android from killing the app
<das_j> the mautrix <-> whatsapp traffic is relayed through whatsapp servers iirc
<infinisil-m> Ah I see
<infinisil-m> Yeah if the emulator is too screwy/finnicky that might be my best bet
<das_j> try with a dummy phone number first
<das_j> so it doesn't hurt when it gets banned
<das_j> just get a SIM somewhere
<infinisil-m> Why would it get banned?
<das_j> I got some banned when using the whatsapp-python bridge (completely different project tho, it connects to the whatsapp servers and fakes being an old android phone)
<das_j> I don't know what they'll do with emulated phones
<infinisil-m> Ah yeah, mautrix-whatsapp explicitly mention that you should use a VM so you *don't* get banned
<das_j> oh
<das_j> are you going with an own homeserver?
<infinisil-m> I think that's what I need in order to use mautrix-whatsapp
<das_j> oh right, otherweise you cannot register the appservice…
<{^_^}> #59211 (by Vskilet, 15 weeks ago, open): nixos/mautrix-whatsapp: init module Matrix<->WhatsApp Bridge
<das_j> I hope you have some RAM ready
<infinisil-m> Damnit
<das_j> I have 4GB just for synapse, postgres, coturn and the irc bridge
<das_j> quoting dmesg: Out of memory: Kill process 28555 (.homeserver-wra) score 313 or sacrifice child
<gchristensen> ouch
<infinisil-m> Yeah I don't have that much to spare, especially not on my servers
<das_j> it's a lot better if you don't federate with too many other matrix servers
<das_j> but I'm in #matrix:matrix.org which is proabably one of the bigger channels
<das_j> also, the devs recommend something like systemd.services.matrix-synapse.environment.LD_PRELOAD = "${pkgs.jemalloc}/lib/libjemalloc.so"; to make things slightly better
<{^_^}> #60187 (by joachifm, 13 weeks ago, merged): nixos: configurable system-wide malloc
<infinisil-m> (somewhat)
<das_j> oh, that was what I was already thinking about
<infinisil-m> I wonder why I need a homeserver for this though
<das_j> because you need to bind the appservice (mautrix in this case) to it
<das_j> basically, an appservice can just create dummy users and rooms
<joepie91> infinisil-m: RFC 42 looks like a good idea btw
<das_j> e.g. I text a bot `!join irc.freenode.net #nixos` and get invited into a room where all the users are as if they were on my server
<joepie91> I've been annoyed by the non-composability of extraConfig for a while :P
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<infinisil-m> joepie91: Thanks :D
<infinisil-m> das_j: I see, somewhat
<infinisil-m> Oh, he gone
<joepie91> infinisil-m: I'll give it a proper read and give feedback Some Time Soon(tm)
<joepie91> for minimum-week-long values of Soon :p
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<infinisil-m> That would be great, I did make it much more comprehensible just a few days ago
<infinisil-m> (imo at least)
<joepie91> still need to review the flakes thread as well
<joepie91> that RFC thread grew like mad in a span of a few days
<infinisil-m> I don't think that's very good, the fact that the thread is already so long, it's kind of demotivating because everyone that wants to get into the discussion too now has to read through it
<joepie91> infinisil-m: I suspect it'll get much longer, unfortunately
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<joepie91> flakes are an extremely useful tool; but that view is based on a premise that a significant amount of people (likely even within Nix circles) do not share
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<joepie91> so I doubt that the discussion will just be about the mechanics and implementation, it will likely also be about the foundational premise underlying it
<__monty__> The problem is that github's comment model is terrible. There's no way to pick up where you left off.
<joepie91> and that's always a recipe for lengthy threads :)
<infinisil-m> joepie91: Most people seem to be using code-level comments though, so these can be hidden away when resolved at least
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<joepie91> I've only glanced at the comments so far, but I already noticed some amount of "why do we need this, nixpkgs is fine" sentiments
<__monty__> infinisil-m: Haven't read RFC42 yet. Could you give a TLDR on how you'll be able to magically generate the right config syntax?
<joepie91> infinisil-m: right, assuming that those comments do actually just pertain to the sections themselves and not to the broader topic, in which case a lot of relevant discussion will get hidden away
<infinisil> __monty__: Only config formats that have an obvious mapping from Nix will be considered
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<infinisil> __monty__: And this config format is declared in the module that has the option for that
<infinisil> joepie91: True..
<joepie91> infinisil: anyhow, Nix flakes are arguably the most significant change to Nix since overlays and the Nix 2 UI
<joepie91> so it's bound to generate some discussion at least
<__monty__> infinisil: Why didn't you just try to sneak Dhall in as the common configuration language? : >
<joepie91> (okay, technically overlays aren't a Nix thing, but still)
<pie_> joepie91: i hate myself right now
<pie_> joepie91: i commented on this https://discourse.nixos.org/t/debugging-python-packages-test-phase/3541 then completely forgot, and proceeded to fight with python tests today
<__monty__> Fwiw, flakes looks like a major improvement to me.
<infinisil> __monty__: Hehe
<pie_> joepie91: on the other hand i understand the guys process now
<pie_> joepie91: FMLLLLL
<__monty__> I'm holding off on writing something because I want to write it as a flake, rather than just an overlay.
<infinisil> joepie91: Well, I wouldn't consider overlays a part of Nix itself, but rather nixpkgs. And I can't take the Nix 2 UI quite serious yet, because it has some problems, might still change, and doesn't have any proper docs
<pie_> __monty__: might take a while then :P
<joepie91> pie_: ah, that sounds like my periodic "spend 5 hours debugging an issue, only to end up at a FIXME that I left for myself 2 months ago that exactly describes what I just spent 5 hours rediscovering"
<pie_> joepie91: /me sends joepie91 hugs
<joepie91> (I need to grep for my FIXMEs more often)
<joepie91> :)
<pie_> joepie91: we are trying to automate away our brains and its not working
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<joepie91> infinisil: like I said, technically not part of Nix. but for all practical purposes, they are part of what people consider "Nix" :P
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<infinisil> True :)
<joepie91> so I'm counting them in this context
<joepie91> but yeah, tl;dr flakes are significant, it's important that we get them right
<joepie91> the first time, if at all possible
<infinisil> Yeah
<joepie91> and diverging into personal opinion/prediction here: I think that the design of flakes will be the major factor in determining how and whether Nix(OS) will grow and become popular in the next few years
* gchristensen too
<joepie91> because with the right design, it allows 'permissionless' papering over issues by third parties
<joepie91> in a way that doesn't require forever keeping compatibility
<pie_> ...arent those the knds of things you need more input for in the design phase? >.>
<pie_> though having a working implementation to critique also seems good
<joepie91> (basically the same reason why almost everything in JS is shipped as a separately versionable/replaceable library, rather than a single monolithic core, by design)
<joepie91> pie_: well, that is why there is now an RFC thread :)
<pie_> oh didnt know that
<pie_> thats gonna be a loooooong thread
<gchristensen> it is
<pie_> sounds like a bad idea
<gchristensen> oh?
<{^_^}> rfcs#49 (by edolstra, 1 week ago, open): [RFC 0049] Flakes
<pie_> i was gonna say it cant be worse than email but you can do tree structures even with email
<joepie91> if I can find the time, I may end up writing a summary of the thread, since I'm going to have to read it all anyway
<pie_> id say maybe it should have been a whole new discourse catgory :P but everyone is on github right
<joepie91> to hopefully increase accessibility of the thread
<pie_> time to replace the nixcon hackday with everybody thing very hard about flakes day
<pie_> or just all of nixcon
<pie_> xD
<joepie91> heh
<joepie91> you could probably do a full 4-day event of that, yeah
<infinisil> A weekly public meeting to discuss parts of the flakes proposal might be a cool idea
<gchristensen> sounds like a great idea
<gchristensen> we could start that not this next friday, but the one after that
<samueldr> gchristensen: when's the next office hours?
<gchristensen> planning on Friday :) (but Eelco is unavailable Friday, so probably not a good time to start it?)
<joepie91> (aside: I'm happy to see that people generally recognize the importance of getting the design right :P that's a disappointingly uncommon thing...)
<samueldr> the next one is not forced to be about flakes
<joepie91> (in tech in general I mean, not specifically Nix)
<samueldr> unless it means that the following one is going to be set later otherwise
<gchristensen> samueldr: I kinda want to do them weekly
<gchristensen> but was traveling this last week
<infinisil> joepie91: Yeah agreed
<samueldr> then we can do a non-flakes one to kink out the irons before the important one?
<infinisil> I usually start out complicated projects by first thinking about them until I have a decent idea how to design it
<ashkitten> i really dislike how github hides things in the middle of a thread behind "show more" and when you click that it only shows like 10 more replies
<infinisil> (and then iterate over the design over time..)
<infinisil> ashkitten: Yeah that's annoying..
<infinisil> GitHub TUI when?
<infinisil> They do have an extensive API after all :D
<gchristensen> samueldr: sounds good. what should we talk about?
<{^_^}> ValveSoftware/Proton#580 (by nstgc, 48 weeks ago, open): Final Fantasy 14 (39210)
<ashkitten> 489 comments
<samueldr> not sure if there's still going to be qt things to talk about
<pie_> oh i missed the first weekly :(
<pie_> (or first few?)
<gchristensen> samueldr: it could be cool to discuss the qt situation and how we got there
<samueldr> first
<pie_> noes~
<pie_> how was the turnout
<gchristensen> pie_: I (intentionally) scheduled it with very short notice. 26 people.
<pie_> i missed the thread update or something
<samueldr> gchristensen: we may want to figure out how to broadcast to yt beforehand though, so we have a fallback in case zoom, again, doesn't handle the recording
<pie_> but i can see why youd do that
<pie_> thats still quite a crowd
<gchristensen> samueldr: a good idea. we could do some more testing. I have a spare laptop here I could use for restreaming or whatever..
<samueldr> I have no idea if it was because it was moderated (was it?) or if it was our party that was well-behaved
<gchristensen> it was not moderated
<samueldr> but at no point it because a cacauphony of people talking over eachother
<pie_> if everyone wants to speak for a minute half an hour is gone :D i wonder how big political meetings get anything done
<samueldr> became a cacauphony*
<pie_> samueldr: awesome
<gchristensen> but I think it would be good to moderate it, using the Zoom "hand" feature -- to help let newbies feel comfortable talking
<gchristensen> pie_: the obvious joke is they don't :)
<pie_> gchristensen: ;)
<gchristensen> samueldr: want to do a practice run sometime?
<samueldr> that would be useful, I need to figure out my side for audio
<samueldr> I didn't end up speaking because I couldn't test beforehand
<gchristensen> oh ac
<samueldr> I though it would do like hangouts, and give you a private moment to test your own audio
<samueldr> I thought*
* gchristensen can hear the voice of the skype test call now
<infinisil> Why wasn't jitsi used btw?
<das_j> "Hallo, Sie sind mit dem Skype-Testservice verbunden"
<samueldr> users with experience with jitsi had bad experience with ocean-spanning discussions
<das_j> what about matrix?
<das_j> sorry
<samueldr> (AFAIUI)
<das_j> mumble
<samueldr> no video, no display sharing
<das_j> ah right
<samueldr> and it's unknown about the ocean spanning issue; it may or may not be an issue
<das_j> last time I used hangouts which was pretty okay
<averell> they have a very low talking people limit i think
<das_j> ummm
<das_j> nextcloud talk?
<joepie91> my experience with jitsi is that it's absolutely unpredictable as to whether it'll work
<joepie91> jitsi proper, that is
<joepie91> jitsi meet has worked fairly reliably for me (with students) for audio and webcam, less reliably with screensharing, in all cases the bitrate seemed super low
<joepie91> that may have been students' internet connection, but still
<gchristensen> smushing >30 people in to a single video call is hard on its own, mixing in multiple continents is a whole new level
<das_j> from the website: Users can invite external chat participants with an URL into public rooms on the Nextcloud server.
<joepie91> I've only tested Matrix a little, worked in that case for video/audio
<joepie91> (with Riot)
<__monty__> joepie91: Dutch students don't have uni provided network connection?
<joepie91> __monty__: "students" in the tutoring sense
<joepie91> none of them in NL actually
<__monty__> Ah. For some reason I immediately assumed you were a prof, since that's usually how it goes in FP-ish channels.
<joepie91> heh
<joepie91> yeah, I can see where you're coming from
<joepie91> I have some freelance work probably queued up for a university, but other than that I have nothing whatsoever to do with unis :P
<joepie91> didn't even finish high school
<ashkitten> matrix doesn't have video i thought? it can do voip if you host a TURN server but iirc it uses jitsi for video
<das_j> ashkitten: I think it does
<ashkitten> hmm
<ashkitten> maybe that's changed recently
<joepie91> I have no idea about the specifics :)
<ashkitten> "recently" being since the last time i seriously looked at riot's features
<das_j> yes, if I press the call button in the bottom right of the riot app, I can choose
<joepie91> haven't gotten that far in reading the specs yet
<das_j> now ajs124 gets some weird video call
<joepie91> lol
<das_j> well it works
<das_j> he was not too happy about it
<joepie91> das_j: you bridged here?
<das_j> ofc
<joepie91> odd, afaik it shouldn't allow calls in bridged rooms
<joepie91> unless you're +o
<das_j> no, we have a regular room
<joepie91> oh
<das_j> not over this one here
<ajs124> joepie91: who doesn't bridge here? :P
<joepie91> right :P
<joepie91> well I dunno!
<ajs124> (although mine is an XMPP bridge, not Matrix)
<joepie91> I can't see which of you are bridging here
<joepie91> as I'm on a different bridge lol
<ajs124> lol
<__monty__> Is this like a religious cult where everyone's the pope?
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> that's one I haven't heard before
<ashkitten> i'm the pope of myself
<samueldr> I recognize only one pope
<samueldr> tim
<samueldr> (vim joke)
<das_j> samueldr: oof
<das_j> I think I might even have some book he wrote
<ashkitten> there are some who call me.... tim
<das_j> oh no I was searching for the book, now I have found an Ansible book and a Perl book
<das_j> time to throw them out maybe
<samueldr> das_j: perl might still be helpful within nixpkgs :)
<__monty__> Hmm, sensing a pattern. Timsort was by a tim too.
<das_j> samueldr: Yeah for porting away
<das_j> I always shudder when I think about the Hydra code base
<joepie91> in the context of nixpkgs, a Perl book is like a "this is how you survive the outback, these are the animals you need to run from" book
<__monty__> Practical Vim's a great book but not by tpope.
<ashkitten> i've written perl scripts before
<__monty__> Is it perl 5 or 6?
<ajs124> ashkitten: we've all sinned before
<pie_> im a different kind of sinner
<ashkitten> i learned some perl recently (in the past 2 years) to write a script to convert ascii art into a file i can include with nasm
<joepie91> Perl 6 has some pretty interesting properties/features
<das_j> __monty__: Right, but I think he wrote the foreword
<das_j> ashkitten: Yeah, this is probably the only legitimate reason to use perl. It's the fastest thing you'll find for text transformations
<__monty__> Let's all break out our rosaries, repeat after me: 10 Dear Dijkstra, I beg your forgiveness for I have written TI-basic and make use of the editor of the beast on a daily basis. GOTO 10
<das_j> But writing something more complex is as good as trying to implement a http server in nix
<ashkitten> my girlfriend rewrote that script in python when she implemented run-length encoding
<ashkitten> das_j: i think one of my friends is writing a relational database in php
<__monty__> o.O
<das_j> ashkitten: A database or a client?
<aleph-> joepie91: Ugh packaging Perl stuff is always fun
<ashkitten> database, i think
<aleph-> ashkitten: I had some horrifying thing I wrote in php
<das_j> aleph-: Ever tried objective C?
<aleph-> I jes cannae remember what
<aleph-> das_j: Na
<das_j> ashkitten: Everybody needs their own suffering
<aleph-> What was it I wrote...
<das_j> aleph-: I have finished nix code but I cannot upstream the packages because they'd get rejected
<das_j> probably
<ashkitten> das_j: i think it's just the language she's most comfortable with, which is totally valid
<__monty__> das_j: Are you sure it's *fast* for text? https://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
<aleph-> das_j: Clean them up. I need to clean mine up.
<das_j> __monty__: Well I was
<aleph-> And upstream them.
<aleph-> pie_: Let me go send you the Kali packages I can find after dinner :p
<das_j> aleph-: It's not possible. I'll just try and beg for forgiveness later
<das_j> hmb
<aleph-> Finally
<das_j> gibt nen issue^^
<das_j> oh wrong chat, sorry
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<pie_> #65536
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/65536 (by deliciouslytyped, 3 minutes ago, open): Happy 2 ^ 16
<gchristensen> :o