<samueldr>
since `gitBase` is set in a let block, you can't simply override gitBase
<pie_>
im following so far
<Drakonis>
can we move all of nixpkgs to a legacy packageset after flakes comes in
<Drakonis>
so people can still use it, while everything gets transitioned to the new setup?
<samueldr>
drakonis: it may be way too early to talk about that
<Drakonis>
when will it be the right moment for that?
<samueldr>
I don't know
<samueldr>
though what's known is that for nixpkgs, flakes don't change much yet
<samueldr>
for the foreseeable near~ish future at least
<samueldr>
(AFAIK)
<samueldr>
AFAIK, nixpkgs will be presented as a flake, consumable as a flake, but will not consume flakes initially
<samueldr>
and I'm not sure how it relates to overriding here anyway
<Drakonis>
its related to another thought
<pie_>
samueldr: kind of braindead here, could you review these two sentences to see if im actually replying to what the post is saying?: https://bpaste.net/show/4PGv
<samueldr>
I think it is
<pie_>
samueldr: ah, is the point really just that you cant access gitBase at all?
<pie_>
sidenote:im massively annoyed by these kinds of issues
<samueldr>
in this case, to override it
<pie_>
ok so two issues, 1) you just cant access it 2) you cant override the input to the other stuff because its already substituted by the time you access it ?
<samueldr>
I think that's it
<ashkitten>
gchristensen: so i got my own direnv extension to work with vscode but if another extension like the rust rls extension is loaded before direnv's load completes it won't be able to spawn the command it needs to because the binary isn't in the path
<ashkitten>
there's no way for me to delay other extensions loading until mine finishes
<ashkitten>
that sucks because i really want to be able to use vscode for stuff
<pie_>
samueldr: thanks
<pie_>
ashkitten: depending on load order seems like bad design, but if its not your fault then :C
<ashkitten>
vscode has really good language server support and debugger integration
<pie_>
*if you cant do anything about it
<ashkitten>
yeah
<ashkitten>
well like
<ashkitten>
this is how i set up the environment
<ashkitten>
maybe i'll look at vscode's sources and see if i can patch in direnv support there instead of in an extension... seems like a pretty bad alternative tho
<pie_>
dont mind me
<pie_>
im more braindead than usual
<pie_>
ashkitten: you could say its the other plugins that are depending on load order :P
<pie_>
this seems to be a classic nix problem for text editors, suddenly global environment variables dont make sense anymore
<pie_>
and i think plugins generally are not "scoped" in any way
<ashkitten>
that's true, but it's probably a reasonable assumption that if you have rust installed then it'll be in the path when you start the editor
<pie_>
so you need to add special "get environment some way" funcitonality (?)
<pie_>
ashkitten: not necessarily, you could say, instll rust while the editor is running, but the exe will end up in bin anyway, so it works
<pie_>
not that im any sort of expert on this, im jus thtikning out loud, (and did some starting-at-emacs-in-fear-thinking for a bit)
<ashkitten>
pie_: the issue seems to be that the rls-vscode extension clones process.env on activation so even if i tried to restart the rls it won't work
* pie_
shrugs :(
<pie_>
you gotta do what you gotta do
<pie_>
ashkitten: i dont know how any of this works, is rls a separate executable?
<ashkitten>
pie_: yes
<pie_>
ashkitten: you could make it a wrapper then?
<ashkitten>
if i wanted to make it globally available i'd put it in my home-manager config
<manveru>
and then just shell out to some markdown converter that isn't pandoc
<__monty__>
But pandoc's so sweet though.
<manveru>
damn, sitepipe also depends on pandoc :(
<manveru>
it may be sweet, but it's gigabytes of dependencies that are totally unused :P
<manveru>
like, if you use hugo, it's a binary with 10MB
<manveru>
the dynamically linked binary from hakyll is over 100MB alone
<__monty__>
Doesn't nix help with that problem?
<eyJhb>
Taneb: yeah, thanks!
<__monty__>
You only need one pandoc.
<eyJhb>
I ended up getting too much crap. So I did the most sportsly thing. Started listening in on other processes created, and waited for someone to grab the flag
<eyJhb>
Easy
<__monty__>
Sounds like cheating.
<jackdk>
my approach for static sites is to build them in a derivation, and then I don't have to shove the giant hakyll/sitepipe/whatever+pandoc+whatever derivation between machines
<jackdk>
it took me multiple years to get around to rebuilding my site in hakyll. Thanks, but I'm not falling down that rabbit hole again
<__monty__>
Admit you're tempted though : >
<__monty__>
There's an SSG based on make and m4 o.O
magnetophon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
magnetophon has joined #nixos-chat
psyanticy has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb>
__monty__: cheating with extra steps! Kidding though.. Somebody left behind a file which hinted quite some...
<eyJhb>
And the people who say your legs will hurt after a half maraton are liars! My back is hurting like hell
<jackdk>
__monty__: more by the make and m4 version, tbqh. I spent a lot of time internalising autotools, and when you gaze into the build tool abyss, sometimes it gazes back
<__monty__>
Is there a haskell SSG using shake?
<joepie91>
today's successful challenge: transporting 25 (flat) moving boxes, two shopping bags full of cleaning crap, several broomsticks and a laundry basket... using a single scooter
<joepie91>
I may be a little insane
<joepie91>
it basically looked like a (literal) bundle of stuff magically floating across the street :P
<__monty__>
Are you gonna be moving the filled boxes with said scooter too?
<__monty__>
Also, some people are never contented, imagine if you had to transport this by bicycle instead!
<__monty__>
Or *uni*cycle even!
<joepie91>
__monty__: nah, I'm actually going to be using them as bulk storage
<joepie91>
__monty__: also, to be clear, I mean 'scooter' as in 'human-powered low-center-of-gravity' thing
<joepie91>
anyway, reason I got moving boxes is because they are the cheapest bulk storage cuboid I could find, per liter :P
<__monty__>
True but I highly recommend using clear containers instead. Otherwise that stuff'll never see the light of day again.
<joepie91>
same is true for other containers, in my experience :P
<joepie91>
quite a few of the boxes will be "stuff to get rid of"
<joepie91>
and 0.98 EUR for 50L is hard to beat
<__monty__>
Clear containers at least let you see most of the things that are in them without any effort put into retrieval.
<joepie91>
labelled boxes solve the same problem though
<joepie91>
I mean, I have clear containers, just not enough, and they are expensive
<__monty__>
Labels tend to get out of date rapidly and be imprecise in my experience.
<joepie91>
they are imprecise by design in this case :)
<joepie91>
categories
<__monty__>
Drawers and closed containers are where stuff goes to die ime. If it works for you then great.
<eyJhb>
joepie91: how good were you at mobile design?
<eyJhb>
*web related stuff
<joepie91>
that's two different questions :P
<eyJhb>
How good are you at making none responsive none mobile friendly websites, mobile friendly websites
<eyJhb>
Does htat make sense?
<eyJhb>
does that*
<joepie91>
eyJhb: I'm pretty decent at making non-eyesores (though I am certainly not a graphic designer), my specialization is more in the UX aspect of it, and I can do responsive design fine, but I'm very much not a fan of mobile devices and their limitations and having to design around them
<joepie91>
I /can/ do it, though.
<joepie91>
eyJhb: anyway, why do you ask?
<eyJhb>
Hmm damn.. Just trying to 1. figure out how to make my map project more mobile friendly 2. Actually doing it
<eyJhb>
Just talked with AAU, and they would consider posting the link on their facebook page. Buuut, he also mentioned he wanted to see how mobile friendly it is :p
<joepie91>
eyJhb: this is a great example of something you can't do *well* with limited screen real estate
<eyJhb>
Yeah, the only thing I can really do, is to make the sidebar close when you click the main map
<eyJhb>
And maybe the same for popups
<joepie91>
eyJhb: but the quickest solution I can see that makes it at least usable, is a full-screen filter display, and a full-screen map display, with the full-screen map display having a small bar at the top that shows the currently active filters
<joepie91>
that you can tap to switch to full-screen filter display
<joepie91>
so that it's still always visible what the current map view represents, but without showing the controls for adjusting those settings until you go to the filter view
<eyJhb>
Yeah makes sense, but the current filters active would be too big quite quick I would assume
<joepie91>
eyJhb: it can just be small text
<joepie91>
it just needs to be there, as a reference
<joepie91>
not be selectable or modifiable or w/e
<eyJhb>
But considering the list of filters, and the width of a smartphone, it will still be quite big or 100% unreadable
<eyJhb>
"altan, eget toilet/bad, elevator, emhætte, depotrum, have og/eller terrasse, husdyr / pets, komfur, køleskab, motionsrum, parkering, vaskeri"
<eyJhb>
Hmm.. Maybe it could
<__monty__>
Icon? Scrollable section at top/bottom?
magnetophon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<__monty__>
*icons
<eyJhb>
Icons? Of the filters?
<eyJhb>
The filters are automatically generated/fetched from the main website, so that would mean mapping => Increased maintaince
magnetophon has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb>
Ohh, I hate when you get emails back where you want to reply "PER MY LAST EMAIl".
magnetophon has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
magnetophon has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
magnetophon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
__monty__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Jackneill has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
magnetophon has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
magnetophon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
magnetophon has joined #nixos-chat
avn has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen>
it is amazing how many applications are just org-mode + a gui : https://www.notion.so/
<Taneb>
Hmm, if I learnt to use ord mode, I'd have two reasons to use emacs
gspia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<gchristensen>
org-mode is great, but you have to get beyond the idea that there is a right way to use it
<gchristensen>
there is no blessed workflow or anything. it is just a bag of tools you can use for whatever
cransom has joined #nixos-chat
gspia has joined #nixos-chat
<cransom>
everyone panic, slack is having rolling outages again.
<Taneb>
cransom: good thing that huge swathes of the technology industry don't rely on a single proprietary platform for communication
<eyJhb>
Taneb: ironic?
<Taneb>
Yes
<gchristensen>
snark
<eyJhb>
Snark?
<gchristensen>
snark
<eyJhb>
`an imaginary animal (used typically with reference to a task or goal that is elusive or impossible to achieve).`?
<gchristensen>
"an attitude or expression of mocking irreverence and sarcasm"
<eyJhb>
Guessing Google isn't quite agreeing on that :p
<gchristensen>
I don't hate it... but I don't love it :)
<eyJhb>
I actually have three Slack channels I just idle in... Only reason I am in them is because of Bitlbee
<eyJhb>
If it wasn't for Bitlbee, I wouldn''
<eyJhb>
wouldn't** damn layers
<ldlework>
I thought slack was a nice contemporary choice when it first came out - but in general Discord nicer than it's competitors now
<eyJhb>
Not a fan of Discord, mostly because I can't integrate it into my IRC
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<ldlework>
lol
<__monty__>
Hmm, did I already finish the flakes rfc PR comments? I only had to "show more" once, highly suspicious >.> <.<
<eyJhb>
ldlework: It seems really petty, but I don't use any voice chat, video chat, etc. at all, and I don't fancy having that many CPU hungry applications open all the time
<ldlework>
i don't use voice or video chat either
<eyJhb>
So when I can have IRC, Facebook and Slack integrated into a single program, I looove it
<eyJhb>
Or wait, Discord can integrate into Bitlbee, but it really sucks :/
<ldlework>
being able to share media, use per-message reactions, edit your messages, easily have searchable group DMs, a role system etc
<ldlework>
there are a lot of features that go a long way to supporting the community of a community
<eyJhb>
So, Discord over IRC for e.g. a project like NixOS?
<ldlework>
i'm just saying that Discord is a nice featureful contemporary chat platform.. that's all :)
<ldlework>
"i like it better than slack" was my main message
<eyJhb>
Ahh, But just curious! I don't use that at all, I hate message reactions but that comes from FB Messenger. Suddenly your phone just vibrates while you are typing a message, and you need to look at all your messages to find out who and what reacted to you
<eyJhb>
But I do miss sharing media
<eyJhb>
We have s/old/new for editing messages! :p
<__monty__>
Careful with discord though. Locking communities into proprietary walled gardens isn't a great idea.
<__monty__>
Let's hope matrix can become better than discord.
<eyJhb>
Is Matrix REALLY that good?
<eyJhb>
I was mostly missing a good client with Matrix ..
<ldlework>
matrix is p bad
<eyJhb>
pretty bad?
<ldlework>
yeah
<__monty__>
Oh, yeah. No great clients and no good homeservers yet. The idea of a federated communication network is great though. (Almost sounds like irc : >)
<ldlework>
valiant effort tho
<__monty__>
Those are just due to lack of maturity of implementations though.
<eyJhb>
__monty__: you don't connect using Matrix, do you?
<ldlework>
Also, I'm not sure how locked a community can be to a chat platform. I'm part of many communities on Discord where if Discord went away, they.. would move to another service.
<eyJhb>
I know joepie91 seems to love it
<ldlework>
It's not like chat platforms really provide anything that's highly-integrated and also nessecary for most communities.
<__monty__>
Nope, no good clients and no good homeservers : )
<ldlework>
It's more like how comfortable a couch is.
<eyJhb>
I guess...
<__monty__>
ldlework: And how would the community find out where to go if discord went "Poof!"?
<eyJhb>
Ohh this reminds me so much of Microsoft and Office 365 for companies..
<eyJhb>
That shit locks you somewhat in... Ease of use
<ldlework>
Because most communities have some other means of communication like a site, or github, or literally anything else
<ldlework>
haha it doesn't seem like a real problem
<__monty__>
And yet, it is.
<ldlework>
for who?
<__monty__>
Maybe not you, but people like me.
<ldlework>
how many communities have you been a part of who's chat service vanished over night and had literally no other way communicate?
<__monty__>
None, because I've always stuck to irc. Well, one, because they migrated to discord.
<ldlework>
lol ok so it's not a problem
<ldlework>
not the problem you described
<__monty__>
That's not proper reasoning. All you can deduce from that is that communities on irc are stable and open. Not that communities elsewhere never disappear.
<eyJhb>
I actually had that problem, it sucked. But we magically found each other again
<__monty__>
The lock-in due to comfort eyJhb mentioned is another problem. The community develops inertia and will tolerate quite a bit of abuse due to this.
<ldlework>
you described a problem where in proprietary platforms lock in communities
<ldlework>
such that if the platform goes away, they have no way to communicate
<samueldr>
noting here that self-hosting is not a solution necessarily; if the self-hosted community disappears people without contact outside of it are still SOL
<ldlework>
then described a completely different problem of refusing to use any service but IRC
<eyJhb>
We had a agar.io community, and suddenly the chat disappeared.. And no means of communication for a large part of the community
<__monty__>
samueldr: No one has said self-hosting is the solution though?
<ldlework>
sounds like you're the one who's locked in, perhaps ideologically or by preference - but you haven't really made a case for communities not being able to communite where to go
<__monty__>
You're pretending that being disbanded for even just a few days wouldn't be a loss for a community.
<ldlework>
you described lock in, where a community wouldn't be able to otherwise communicate
<ldlework>
but if you're backstepping to minor inconvience, sure
<__monty__>
The inconvenience isn't minor.
<ldlework>
that seems wholly subjective and you'd pick whatever dial setting serves your argument
<__monty__>
And obviously any community that's large and strong enough will reassimilate. Otherwise it couldn't have existed in the first place.
<ldlework>
so what's the intrinsic problem with using Discord (or platforms like it) again?
<__monty__>
The proprietary platform makes for other problems. You can't change it to better suit the community for one.
<samueldr>
__monty__: no one, but I wanted to bring it in because it often is seen as a solution for random third party hosts
<ldlework>
there's plenty of bots and other things people have made for discord
<ldlework>
we literally can't make IRC any better besides that
<samueldr>
augmenting the discussion, not refuting it
<__monty__>
You can't rely on not getting ads stuffed down your eyeballs.
<ldlework>
where are there ads on discord?
<__monty__>
There's none so far. But let's not be naive.
<ldlework>
ok so we're just flapping our arms here
<__monty__>
There's also the problem that many people in developing countries can have a hard time running a site as heavy as discord.
<ldlework>
care about that community destroying lock in guys, because ads one day
<ldlework>
lol
<__monty__>
Well, what will your communities do when discord starts serving ads? Go elsewhere? Yeah, right. They're stuck.
<ldlework>
lol why are they stuck, you haven't demonstrated that at all
<__monty__>
Because they're comfortable. They've learned to live with discord's shortcomings and quirks.
<ldlework>
that's not how proprietary lockin arguments work
<ldlework>
because that's just as true of literally any service of any nature
bitmapper has joined #nixos-chat
<__monty__>
No it's not. With matrix you could just stop federating with the servers that serve ads. Same with irc.
<ldlework>
that makes no sense
<ldlework>
you just made an argument from comfort
<ldlework>
it has nothing to do with "federating"
<__monty__>
Sure does, the federation allows you to remain comfortable, using a matrix network, while not having to take crap from anyone, especially a for-profit entity like discord.
<ldlework>
do you make arguments to convince?
<ldlework>
sometimes i wonder..
<__monty__>
There's no convincing you.
<ldlework>
not with arguments like this...
Drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
webster23_ has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb>
And that most be the conclusion! - To throw in my own 5 cents, I would say it depends on the size and which community. NixOS would be fairly easy to switch around. Smaller ones which aren't directly something open with websites etc. is more devastating
<Drakonis>
don't fracture the community tho
<ldlework>
isn't a smaller community even easier to move? what's the chance that there's literally no way to communicate? what's the chance the thing dissapears overnight without warning, etc etc etc etc.
<__monty__>
Exactly this has happened to reddit, tumblr and del.icio.us communities.
<ldlework>
lock-in is also different than sudden dissapearence causing a few people who have literally only ever communicated over that one medium suddenly finding themselves unable to find themselves
<qyliss>
Took me a week, but I just got Heads to kexec into NixOS :D
<Drakonis>
these communities have their own idiosyncrasies
<ldlework>
someone running some server who's implementation is open source can delete their server without notice
<Drakonis>
you cannot hold a long form conversation with it
<ldlework>
these are just not good propretary-lockin arguments imo
<Drakonis>
the wool can be pulled over your eyes at any moment
* ldlework
waves his arms about
<__monty__>
ldlework: No one said an "open" but centralized approach was any better than a proprietary approach.
<ldlework>
a smaller community is less likely to run federated infrastructure
<joepie91>
worth noting that decentralized identity is a thing being worked on for Matrix
<joepie91>
which should remove the "can delete their server without notice" problem, at least for the most part
<ldlework>
and more likely to just more than one free service
<__monty__>
ldlework: The community doesn't have to run the infrastructure. We're currently talking on freenode's infrastructure, which afaik the nixos community doesn't even sponsor let alone run.
<ldlework>
and therfore all the arguments about this statistically insignificant overnight diasporas as some general argument against disord
<ldlework>
kinda fall flat
<ldlework>
sure, i'm not saying federated systems are not advantageous
<Drakonis>
i have an actual argument against discord
<__monty__>
Most important aspect for me isn't even the proprietariness. It's the accessibility.
<ldlework>
i'm not here to press an ideological extemism and i both value open systems and distributed ones
<eyJhb>
ldlework: happended to us, think we lost 5 members out of 15
<ldlework>
but your actual arguments against why people shouldn't use discord are very weak and often times totally irrelvant to the premise position
<Drakonis>
discord is first and foremost set up as a vc thing for games communication, it needs a whole lot of cash and will pivot towards weird directions every often
<ldlework>
it's first and foremost a chat service text/voice, and people use it for all sorts of things
<ldlework>
there's 200 million users and likely many people you might want to talk to are also there
<Drakonis>
that's inside the venn diagram for games communication
<ldlework>
a lot more than irc
<ldlework>
Drakonis: i'm part of music, philosophy, physics, chemistry, politics and other discord servers.
bitmapper has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<ajs124>
More people, but maybe not more people *I want to talk to*
<ldlework>
a number of open source communities
<ldlework>
ajs124: that's just cynicism
<Drakonis>
rust comes to mind here
<ldlework>
not really an argument
* joepie91
twitches at 'servers'
<Drakonis>
its more like a cluster of chatrooms
<ldlework>
it's just a word to communicate an idea
<Drakonis>
they inherited the term from vent and ts
<joepie91>
it's also an entirely wrong term
<joepie91>
harmfully so
<Drakonis>
i have gotten on the discord train early
<__monty__>
Worst thing about discord imo is the number of people it's keeping from discovering irc.
clever has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<Drakonis>
a cool half year after it launched i think?
<Drakonis>
doesnt automatically make my takes right
bitmapper has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb>
Anyone here use DigitalOcean?
<monsieurp>
__monty__: the same could be said wrt slack :)
<__monty__>
monsieurp: Yes, except slack might be even worse : )
<monsieurp>
"BUT I CAN HAZ EMOJIS ON SLACK!!!11"
<monsieurp>
emojis aka the future
<__monty__>
eyJhb: I think andi- stream-of-consciousnessed about it a while ago.
<joepie91>
eyJhb: occasionally, for throwaway boxes
<eyJhb>
monsieurp: it is kinda a roleplay game when you have emoji to ascii
<eyJhb>
Does any of your Droplets defaults to one that costs 45 USD a month??
<Drakonis>
Discord is video games themed slack
<joepie91>
wat
<Drakonis>
i have said it
<eyJhb>
Every time I am going to create a droplet, it automatically selects that
<__monty__>
monsieurp: Irc does emoji just fine 🎉
<eyJhb>
They are also idiots regarding the custom images
<eyJhb>
And holy hell DO is unstable regarding API and website
<eyJhb>
The custom images example text (placeholder) gives a example for .iso files, but they do not support .iso files.. Contacted support and noted that it was stupid to give that as a example then
<eyJhb>
Just replied "yes we currently do not support .iso files". Thanks. Great answer
<__monty__>
How is github's conference or whatever it is $300! dollars *with* early-bird discount?
<joepie91>
vendor conferences are a scam :P
<joepie91>
speakers don't usually get paid either
philipp[m] has joined #nixos-chat
<philipp[m]>
nixflake is going to be my go-to insult from now on.
<ashkitten>
matrix seems like a big waste of resources to me, tbh. without decentralized identity, there's no point to federation that i can see... and the federation part seems to actually be detrimental, since every server that participates in a room doesn't share the load but increases it dramatically
<__monty__>
How do you think it's worse than irc?
<ashkitten>
people who use matrix seem to like it though, and i've been using it fine for talking to friends the past few weeks
<ashkitten>
__monty__: i think it currently doesn't provide many features that wouldn't be possible in irc
<__monty__>
Well voice/video and e2ee are pretty major imo. IRC really wasn't designed with those in mind so it'd be a terrible experience.
<philipp[m]>
I'm not the biggest fan of matrix, but I do use it. On top of the other stuff is way better multi client support than IRC.
<__monty__>
The $40 droplet was most popular... Sure. What are people even running on all those $40 droplets?
<gchristensen>
for that price I'd spring for Packet's smallest
<eyJhb>
__monty__: who said it was that?
<__monty__>
eyJhb: @DigitalOcean in their tweet.
<__monty__>
gchristensen: I would too because of your past praise and andi-'s recent misadventures.
<eyJhb>
That is such BS
<ashkitten>
i think the main thing that really annoys me about matrix is that there's very little point to the federation part. i don't get anything out of it that i wouldn't also get if there was proper decentralized identity and i could just use the same account on multiple servers
<__monty__>
Though I'd also go with DO over AWS/S3 because of joepie91's recommendations.
<__monty__>
eyJhb: I wonder whether it was the most popular because it was already the default back then?
<__monty__>
ashkitten: Well the federation means channels/rooms aren't tied to specific servers. That's pretty major in my book.
<philipp[m]>
ashkitten: That would indeed be better.
<philipp[m]>
Though the decentralisation is nice. Even when matrix.org is down, you can still chat in #matrix:matrix.org
<ashkitten>
hmm
<qyliss>
with the three other people there who're not on matrix.org :P
<ashkitten>
interesting, but then discovery is lost
bitmapper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<gchristensen>
I lose interest in federated things when I'm not trivially able to get it on my own "domain" or whatever (even if I have to pay)
<philipp[m]>
Of course the nixos rooms die pretty much instantly with matrix.org since the bridge is centralised.
<ashkitten>
like you can't still join #matrix:matrix.org if matrix.org is down and your server hadn't already been in the room
<eyJhb>
__monty__: maybe... I don't believe them
<__monty__>
ashkitten: You can't?
<eyJhb>
And I hate it, because most spin up a droplet and maybe forget about it
<philipp[m]>
ashkitten: A room can have n adresses, so you can still join with another one.
<eyJhb>
I currently owe like 15 USD...
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Now we're back to current homeserver implementations kinda suck.
<gchristensen>
right
<ashkitten>
philipp[m]: that's interesting. i suppose you could use an alternate address from some other server to discover the room
<ashkitten>
as far as i'm aware though, if you specify :matrix.org your server will try to ask matrix.org about the room
<ashkitten>
it's interesting about the multiple addresses though... sorta like petnames, huh
<ashkitten>
that actually does have some appeal
<ashkitten>
the main other complaint i've heard is that the protocol is very inconsistent with what new apis are added and such
<pie_>
andi-: randomly saw this https://twitter.com/andir0815/status/1155045887837687808 , hears something good from somewhere recently about...amazon i think it was? where if you find osmeones private key you just submit it to an api and poof revoked
<gchristensen>
letsencrypt
<pie_>
ah
<gchristensen>
pgp works the same way
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<pie_>
i finlly got tests at least enabled for wxpython4, now i guess i need to figure out how to fail them and whatnot
<__monty__>
pie_: đź‘Ť
<philipp[m]>
ashkitten: yeah, it's not the best designed protocoll. I think if it was designed just a few years later, most of the problems they solved via authority of a host would have been solved cryptographically, making it way more decentralised.
<ashkitten>
i'm kinda hoping chris webber will pull some sort of activitypub e2ee chat app fully formed out of his skull
<ashkitten>
or yk, anyone else
<pie_>
whos that
<philipp[m]>
There is Briar, but it's got tons of issues.
<__monty__>
ashkitten: Activitypub seemed like an all around worse design than matrix in the presentations at fosdem this year.
<__monty__>
Don't recall the specifics but I think it was chris webber who exposed all the warts and blunders in his presentation.
<__monty__>
The video's available in the archives if you really want to know.
<ashkitten>
i'd like to see that actually
bitmapper has joined #nixos-chat
bitmapper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<ldlework>
ashkitten: do you talk to chris on the regular?
<ashkitten>
but yeah i know chris is very unhappy with current implementations. there are a lot of things that were underspecified initially, iirc because activitypub was a bit rushed out
<ashkitten>
ldlework: i'm in an irc channel with him, sure
<ldlework>
ah was just wondering how he's doing. where does he hang out?
* ldlework
guesses #mediagoblin
<ldlework>
nope :P
<ashkitten>
#librelounge is the channel for his podcast with emacsen
<samueldr>
neat, this phone's gonna get garbage reception in Canada :/
<ashkitten>
ugh
<ashkitten>
purism put up an activitypub server, said they didn't care about nazis, and immediately got blocked by everyone reasonable. don't like them.
magnetophon has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
magnetophon has joined #nixos-chat
psyanticy has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<eyJhb>
I feel like I missed something, but since when does browsers broadcast local ip? - https://wtfismyip.com/
<cransom>
are you using a proxy?
<__monty__>
Local ip?
<eyJhb>
Nope
<eyJhb>
__monty__: 192.168.1.x
<__monty__>
It doesn't show that for me.
<eyJhb>
Maybe my pfSense is screwing with me... But wouldn't that be in a header cransom ?
<gchristensen>
WebRTC
<gchristensen>
so you can do local browser-to-browser stuff
<cransom>
any protocol that includes the local ip address i usually considered broken. or at the very least, the largest pain in the ass. (looking at you, SIP)
<gchristensen>
ah excellent, now when trying to fingerprint you we'll just notice you have webrtc-leak-prevent setup
<eyJhb>
Easier to track each device
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: best alternative?
<gchristensen>
none
<gchristensen>
I don't know of any solution
<eyJhb>
IF you at least disable it on all your devices, then they can track each of your devices individually "the same way", if that makes sense
<eyJhb>
It does not, but it stands
<ashkitten>
ublock origin has an option to prevent webrtc leaking
<eyJhb>
ashkitten: thanks
<cransom>
oh, i wonder if thats what was blocking webrtc
<cransom>
hrm. nope. weird.
<eyJhb>
I feel like it makes it easier target someone
<eyJhb>
Just "Hey, here is my local ip"
Drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
Drakonis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<gchristensen>
is there an existing tool like this? magnet_uri=$(ssh build-machine torrent-cli public --tracker opentracker.org ./result); ssh host-machine torrent-cli fetch --tracker opentracker.org $magnet_uri` ?
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<joepie91>
gchristensen: webtorrent-cli can do something like this I _think_? minus the SSH bit
<joepie91>
but I am also tired and about to sleep so I may be misunderstanding the question
<joepie91>
speaking of which
* joepie91
zzz
<gchristensen>
oh cool
<__monty__>
gchristensen: transmission-create and transmission-remote from transmission-cli? And it's possible rtorrent has a cli.
<gchristensen>
boy this is annoyingly hard
<gchristensen>
I want a netcat but with UDP holepunching :P
<pie_>
joepie91: why are all (linux?) epub readers so garbage
<pie_>
gchristensen: please tell me if you find one
<__monty__>
pie_: Yes, just with a more user-friendly UX.
<gchristensen>
this seems to use the relay for more than just discovery
<__monty__>
I don't think so. Maybe when hole-punching fails?
<gchristensen>
"File transfers can be easier by eliminating the need for hosting a server or port forwarding. Again, using a relay server allows any two computers to connect to one another without resorting to port forwarding or fiddling with a server."?
<ajs124>
how come you can ssh to both of these machines, but can't copy files between them?
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Maybe toxvpn, then you can use regular netcat?
<gchristensen>
the link from build to host is fast ,the link from me to build, and link from me to host is slow
<ajs124>
and neither have a public ip?
<gchristensen>
they all do
<gchristensen>
but no ability to manipulate the firewall
<ajs124>
but you can ssh, so port 22 tcp is open? you can just multiplex that port. or have host fetch over ssh from build.
<__monty__>
Why doesn't rsync work?
<gchristensen>
right, host and build can't connect to each other over port 22: no users in common, and no ability to add users.
<__monty__>
It's 2019, why is this still such a hard problem?
<__monty__>
nn, peeps, let me know if you find a good solution!
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
<ajs124>
for one thing, since it's the future, you're expected to have an (un-firewalled) IPv6 address, which would completely eliminate this problem.
<philipp[m]>
Weren't you expected to have a public IPv6 in the presence (meaning around 1999?)
<gchristensen>
lol ipv6
<ajs124>
I for one, am actually connected to freenode via IPv6
<philipp[m]>
gchristensen: The next flotilla is going to bring you a few blocks over to the americas, then you can have a bit of IPv6, too.
<philipp[m]>
I've got IPv6 at home, at work, on my servers. Only missing the phone network for some reason, but I think the biggest provider in my country (Germany/T-Mobile) already has that, too.
<philipp[m]>
Telefonica is slow as always though.
<gchristensen>
I have ipv6 available here at home, but it doesn't work properly
<ajs124>
philipp[m]: Yeah, looks like I got NATed IPv6, with Telefonica DE.
<ajs124>
I mean v4, obviously.
<philipp[m]>
Yeah, got a 10.0.0.0/8 IP, too.
<gchristensen>
a very generous allocation
<ajs124>
My favourite is still 127.0.0.0/8. Just... why?
webster23_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
clever has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr>
surely nobody could need that many itsy-bitsy bits to send bytes around?
<philipp[m]>
gchristensen: Telefonica is a big provider :3
<philipp[m]>
Yeah, that's what they thought about IPv4, I think.
<pie_>
oh no, i just realized that my parents just moved houses and i might not have an internet facing ip anymoe
<pie_>
nooooooo
<ajs124>
my parents neither move, nor change isps, but their's seems to randomly decide how to give out ip addresses and if ipv6 works that week
<gchristensen>
(everybody has a 10.0.0.0/8)
<ajs124>
While we're talking about /8s. Anyone ever heard of hamnet? :D
<qyliss>
ah yes, the people whose IP space was stolen by Amzaon
<gchristensen>
oh sure
<andi->
"stolen" :D
<andi->
some org "sold" it
<samueldr>
>> William Shakespeare's son
<samueldr>
I'm pretty sure I don't have the right hamnet
Drakonis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<philipp[m]>
<gchristensen "(everybody has a 10.0.0.0/8)"> Incorrect. Chuck Norris has two 10.0.0.0/8.
<philipp[m]>
(Oh god, that joke was old)
* gchristensen
disappointedly taps his foot
<samueldr>
I guess this is how we end up with jokes being banned in nixos-chat
<philipp[m]>
I'm so sorry, I couldn't not do it.
<philipp[m]>
I'll go to bed now and think about my mistakes.
<gchristensen>
haha ;)
<andi->
I had the joy of explaining how to connect to corps (one got acquired by another)… Both use 10/8. The network "professional" didn't get why that would be problematic. Didn't know how to work around the issue and also never heard of IPv6 outside of the classroom… Good thing I'll be out there in two days…
<ivan>
how do you work around that other than merging the address spaces?
<andi->
well you hunt for some way to translate between the worlds.
<andi->
you basically just map each other world into another /8 and then reverse the mapping on the other side.