<colemickens>
Are there other folks running Linux on the XPS 13 2018 (9370)? I'm having a heck of a time figuring out what is going on with the power management and CPU scaling on this thing. Even when thermald is off.
* emily
waves
<emily>
I am not sure I have good answers for you but I might have things that make you differently confused
<joepie91>
lol
<joepie91>
different errors are progress, so maybe different confusion is too?
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<Ralith>
colemickens: I remember reading something about the thermal throttling being way too aggressive by default under linux on some new intel chips
<emily>
in practice I use the nixos-hardware configuration which turns on tlp and mostly just roll with that. sometimes i try to tweak stuff with the libsmbios tools
<emily>
yeah
<emily>
the nixos-hardware config takes care of that also
<emily>
(with a hack to set the trip point to 97 C like every 5 minutes...)
<colemickens>
Yeah, it's definitely related to that Ralith. It's very strange though, the throttling isn't 1:1 correlated with the "Core temp above threshold" messages I'm seeing in `dmesg --follow`.
<emily>
(hardware sucks)
<colemickens>
wait what
<colemickens>
really?
<emily>
yes
<emily>
that's the trip point under windows
<colemickens>
oh I feel so stupid. I looked through the repo at the xps 13 config and thought there wasn't anything I was missing. but that sounds like the fix I probably need.
<emily>
intel just sucks so blah blah it doesn't work out under linux and you have to fight acpi yourself
<colemickens>
thank you for mentioning it, let me go look and see if I can just start using the upstream hardware config, or rebase mine on it at least.
<emily>
yeah it was originally added for the x1 carbon
<emily>
but turns out that all the intel ULV mobile chips frmo now on are gonna be like this, I guess
* Ralith
wonders if he should do anything to his t580 to make it run better
* colemickens
already got pretty not-great battery life, but I'd rather just not wait a century to build a small binary.
<colemickens>
emily: so to make sure I'm totally understanding - this fix is (1) the default hardware configuration detected via nixos-generate-config? (2) part of the user hardware config repo on GitHub for hte XPS 13 (3) on the GH repo, but I need to adapt it for XPS 13?
<colemickens>
just before I go digging in the wrong place...
<emily>
colemickens: (2)
<emily>
it was previously (3)
<emily>
but then it became (2)
<emily>
or, uh
<emily>
actually I just have the 9370 config sourced
<emily>
before that I had 9360 config sourced
<emily>
but yeah, there's an upstream 9370 config now
<colemickens>
You don't actually put the repo on your NIX_PATH do you?
<emily>
I put it in my nix.nixPath
<colemickens>
grumble
<emily>
which unfortunately requires me to do intermediate nixos-rebuilds sometimes
<colemickens>
yeah
<emily>
git submodules would probably work better
<emily>
I have "nixpkgs=/home/emily/src/nixpkgs" "nixos-config=/home/emily/etc/nixos/configuration.nix"
<emily>
(and ~/etc/nixos should be (but isn't yet) a git repo)
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<colemickens>
I have `nixosHW = import (builtins.fetchTarball ...), but I can't figure out how to do the equivalent of imports = [ `${nixosHW}/dell/xps/13-9370"` ] though.
<colemickens>
Right not it just complains that nixosHW is a set, rather than a string.
<colemickens>
toPath/toString dont' seem to help
<emily>
you don't want to import it
<emily>
as in, you should just use fetchWhatever
<emily>
or, I guess you're trying to avoid setting imports entirely? dunno how that would work.
<colemickens>
you had it right the first time, I figured it out before alt-tabbing back, feel kinda dumb. thanks though :)
<colemickens>
it's going now. I'm so excited to have this fixed. I can't thank you enough.
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<colemickens>
awkward, the new systemd service is running after a reboot but it's still pegged.
<colemickens>
and I can see the service is doing what it's supposed to at least
<gchristensen>
joepie91: apparently staff's own post was classified as nsfw
<colemickens>
I was just reading about why they've done this via a reddit comment. Horrifying to say the least. Tumblr winding up shut down might not be the worst thing.
<colemickens>
emily: plugged in, my Thermal Mode is also balanced, but I have thermald disabled, per some instructions I found about the Intel bug.
<colemickens>
I took a walk outside and powered it entirely off. Things look great right now, but it is also cooler.
<joepie91>
gchristensen: ha, okay, that one wins
<emily>
I don't have thermald enabled; guess I never did
<emily>
(also, re reddit comment, link?)
<colemickens>
ugh, read it on mobile and can't find my way back to the good breakdown comment.
<joepie91>
colemickens: do you remember which subreddit it was on?
<colemickens>
no, but the threads in /r/tumblr and /r/technology don't have the comprehensive comment that I'm thinking of.
<colemickens>
(still looking...)
<joepie91>
colemickens: do you remember a particular unusual word being used? :P
<colemickens>
weird, on my reddit app on my phone, there's a front page OutOfTheLoop post, but I can't see it on the frontpage of the sub if I go there
<colemickens>
joepie91: and yuuuup, that'd be it.
<joepie91>
right :)
* joepie91
reads
<joepie91>
"and when you finally find the help page for reporting content, it informs you that you need to click the "SHARE" button on the child porn images to report illegal content."
<joepie91>
uh..
<colemickens>
It gets worse, at least IMO.
<joepie91>
colemickens: I don't exactly subscribe to the moral panic around child porn (since that panic tends to *drive* child abuse rather than prevent it), but I'm definitely coming away from this post with a sense of negligence on Tumblr's part
* colemickens
nods
<joepie91>
the SMS suggestion is terrible though
<samueldr>
it's going to fix the issue
<samueldr>
no users
<samueldr>
no porn
<joepie91>
for some definition of 'fix', yes, lol
<joepie91>
but yeah, "verify through SMS" is generally a really terrible measure because it disproportionately affects minority groups with legitimate reasons to hide, and doesn't do much against (usually well-funded) groups with less legitimate reasons
<colemickens>
I am sort of morbidly curious -- my understanding was that Microsoft, and possibly others, would make image detection tech (specifically for such content) available for user-generated-content sites to use for this sort of thing.
<joepie91>
it's one of those things that sounds great on the surface of it if you don't think too carefully about the consequences, but that makes everything worse in practice
<colemickens>
Was Tumblr just not using it? Did they intentionally not use it so that they could implement their half-assed moderation to continue to benefit from that traffic, etc?
<gchristensen>
tumblr used the same NCMEC database pretty much all of them do
<gchristensen>
being anonymous was a value they held (re: not doing sms validation)
<joepie91>
a good one, imo
<gchristensen>
yea
<gchristensen>
they had a lot of good internal values when I was there
<joepie91>
gchristensen: would not be surprised if that were one of the reasons tumblr is so popular amongst queer communities
<joepie91>
or well, was
<gchristensen>
basically the entire company was chafing against oath's values, for good reason. obviously they done screwed stuff up, but also I've never worked with so many people who actually really did care
<joepie91>
gchristensen: dunno if you're stuck with NDAs or anything, but otherwise it might be worth writing something about Tumblr and your experience there and how things went bad
<gchristensen>
honestly don't know what I can / can't say
<gchristensen>
but probably typical story. tumblr was purchased by a company who didn't care about Tumblr, beyond its ability to sell ads
* colemickens
had no idea they were bought
<joepie91>
by Yahoo initially
<joepie91>
then Yahoo was bought by Verizon
<gchristensen>
(Yahoo and now Oath is an advertising platform, first and foremost https://adspecs.oath.com)
<colemickens>
OATH? lol isn't that Verizon?
<joepie91>
yes
<colemickens>
ooof
<joepie91>
gchristensen: it's one thing to hear the "ad people who didn't care screwed up the site", it's a whole other thing to have a credible and in-depth story about it :P
<gchristensen>
yeah ... I wouldn't feel comfortable writing out a narrative and sharing it around :)
<joepie91>
like, this is not the first time this happens, but these stories usually remain as "I once heard that..." so outside of a particular group of people already skeptical of the ad industry, they're not really taken seriously :/
<joepie91>
and so the cycle continues
<joepie91>
iright
<joepie91>
right*
<gchristensen>
the worst part, for me, is all the people I know who grew up on Tumblr, really love Tumblr, and now work at Tumblr, seeing it destroyed from the inside
<gchristensen>
tumblr's user base is never happy, lol, so hearing outcry isn't anything unique :P
<gchristensen>
("oh, you added ssl? please delete the site")
<joepie91>
Edge still mostly registers to me as "that one goddamn browser that still doesn't support <feature>"
<samueldr>
I hate the idea of one "strain" of rendering engine though
<colemickens>
And Firefox usage is down below 9%
<samueldr>
I was about to say
<colemickens>
I wouldn't be so worried if I had any faith in Google or their ethics these days. But they've already been showing themselves to be poor stewards.
<joepie91>
yeaaaahhhh...
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<samueldr>
even then, lately I have found chrome to be... technically getting worserer
<samueldr>
yes, worserer, not worse :/
<joepie91>
for quite some time, imo
<joepie91>
I've had like one of two times in my life where I felt a Chrome update materially improved it
<colemickens>
The account auto-login-even-though-its-not-a-login crap in the latest version is absolutely offensive.
<joepie91>
everything besides that has been a feeling of slow decay
<gchristensen>
lol, I just remembered I got the only best tumblr account name.
<joepie91>
both in performance, and in UX, and in aspects like privacy
<samueldr>
gchristensen: potato?
<gchristensen>
beta
<samueldr>
ah
<joepie91>
colemickens: I'm more concerned about their URL plans, frankly
<gchristensen>
beta.tumblr.com
<joepie91>
lol
<colemickens>
Nice tumblr title :)
<colemickens>
I just bought reproducible.cloud yesterday :D
<joepie91>
there's a very significant risk of Google breaking one of the key aspects that makes the web work
<gchristensen>
'night y'all
<joepie91>
night
<{^_^}>
Night!
<gchristensen>
(America/New_york going to bed before CET...)
<samueldr>
yeah, the URL think is ugly
<joepie91>
ha
<samueldr>
even only on a technical level
<jasongrossman>
Night gchristensen
<samueldr>
can't click the dang bar and edit the dang test dang properly
<joepie91>
dang?
<joepie91>
:P
<colemickens>
joepie91: yeah, I would have to agree with your analysis as well.
<samueldr>
damn, but les damning?
<colemickens>
joepie91: not to mention, some sites don't auto redirect from non-www to www, and now you won't be able to disambiguate between them in a screenshot, etc. :/
<samueldr>
I still see the bugzilla critter in your joe+pie avatar :/
<joepie91>
colemickens: yep, there's a ton of subtle undesirable consequences like that from this breaking of 'referential transparency'
<joepie91>
samueldr: huh, that's a new one
<joepie91>
I don't think anybody's ever seen that in it
<samueldr>
mostly due to being used to a smaller size of it
<joepie91>
though if there's one thing I can say about my avatar, it's that it's very on-brand; it's been confusing people for years, just like my nickname :D
<joepie91>
samueldr: farfetched is a perfectly legitimate English word!
<samueldr>
yes I know!
<joepie91>
:P
<samueldr>
well, two words
<samueldr>
but ditto is a pokémon
<ottidmes>
I plan to name the programming language I am building Ditto (pun intended), hence it was on my mind
<joepie91>
samueldr: oh right, missed that lol
<joepie91>
ottidmes: is it, like, a programming language that takes the form of whatever the programmer is accustomed to?
<joepie91>
:D
<ottidmes>
joepie91: it is actually, an aspect of it
<ottidmes>
joepie91: it actually has no fixed syntax by design (which is again why Ditto is a fitting name, no fixed form)
<jasongrossman>
ottidmes: I'm sure you've thought of this, but "ditto" is not going to show up in a web search.
<joepie91>
lol
<joepie91>
ottidmes: yeah, makes sense
<ottidmes>
jasongrossman: I have, which why I am not yet settled on the name, or I have to make sure it is findable under ditto lang, but that would be annoying
<ottidmes>
I could also go for ottid :P only 28.200 results on Google
<ottidmes>
and as the logo an upside down Ditto pokemon XD
<ottidmes>
other names I thought of: semorph and semlang
<elvishjerricco>
I have resigned myself to using Clover for my mac over linux experiment. MacOS expects too much nonsense in the firmware. At least I've managed to build Clover from source though, rather than using that one copy-pasta binary that everyone uses.
<elvishjerricco>
Now I just have to figure out how to install the thing I've built :P
<samueldr>
built using nix I hope :3
<elvishjerricco>
Of course :)
<samueldr>
while a bit more dirty than not having clover, at least it should be reproducible and ready for updates
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco++
<{^_^}>
elvishjerricco's karma got increased to 8
<elvishjerricco>
I won't mind if I can figure out how to prevent Clover from popping up a GUI
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: do you mean you really don't want a theme, or that you want it to auto-boot?
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: I just want it to autoboot. Boot selection will be done by grub on the host system. Once in the VM there's only the one boot option, and I don't want a second boot screen.
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: That's good, but it still leaves an unnecessary GUI, no?
<samueldr>
maybe there are other options to reduce it to a minimum
<samueldr>
though yeah, removing it entirely will probably need to get your hands dirty
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: Oh hey, it says the GUI will not be invoked at all if you set Timeout to 0
<elvishjerricco>
Sweet
<ottidmes>
google has changed, and the UI is laggy :(
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<colemickens>
holy crap
<colemickens>
I'm sure twitter was abuzz, but I just saw it - the k8s security bug is about as bad as they come
<colemickens>
I'm thinking of the dozens of clusters I could probably access in a few minutes. Yikes.
<colemickens>
ah, I guess it was made public a week ago
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<ldlework>
who here has a completely clean nix-env?
<ldlework>
for their main workstation
<colemickens>
there were some certain people talking vaguely, but openly about a bad k8s bug about 4 months ago on Twitter. HHHMMM.
<colemickens>
me!
<ldlework>
nice congrats
<colemickens>
or at least I go through every few days and either uninstall or move them into my configuration
<ldlework>
good job
<ldlework>
apparently i have 86 packages in nix-env
<ldlework>
nix-env is the devil :)
<emily>
ldlework: me
<ldlework>
nice!
<emily>
I use "nix run" way too often though
<emily>
I should really move some stuff into my configuration
<emily>
I also don't use the channel machinery at all
<ldlework>
interesting
<emily>
my #1 most hated sway bug at the moment: any window title that causes it to be rendered with a larger line height (say, unicode characters -- everything from emoji to CJK to zalgo to ...) causes every other title bar to also be that big for as long as any window on any workspace has such a title, and also the resizing process is really slow and blocks.
<emily>
of course it was closed as "not a bug, fix your font configuration".
<mdash>
emily: things like this are why i am hopeful for Arcan instead
<colemickens>
lol
<colemickens>
emily: firefox extensions?
<colemickens>
that's what was doing it to me.
<colemickens>
there's a fox emoji. I was told it was a "tall emoji", but the fox emoji isn't tall. I think it's a bug too
<colemickens>
oh right, I went back to `border pixel` to avoid that I think
<emily>
colemickens: I fixed my font configuration to make emoji render properly
<colemickens>
oh! I see
<emily>
it involved handcoding fontconfig xml stuff because all the things upstream or online were wrong
<emily>
but there are still characters that will cause this
<ldlework>
i can only seem to manage to get the non-colored emoji
<emily>
in a world where arbitrary twitter display names are rendered in window titles, "text should never have a bigger line height than when it's plain ASCII, not a bug" is ridiculous
<emily>
but I don't have a patch, so all I can do is whine on IRC ^^;
<emily>
(also I don't even want to think about how it manages to be that laggy when the line height of a title changes.)
<colemickens>
um, there are some weird bits of slowness at times and weird crashy/segfaults sometimes too
<colemickens>
There's some Rusty/waylandy stuff, I'm hoping way-cooler picks up...
<ottidmes>
ldlework: my nixos-upgrade shell function (nix-env is shadowed by a warning not to use it): command nix-env --uninstall '.*' && command sudo nix-env --uninstall '.*' && nixpkgs-update && sudo nixos-rebuild boot
<mdash>
colemickens: not yet, i haven't gotten beyond the "reading blog posts" stage with it ;-)
<ldlework>
lol damn yo
* colemickens
claps
<colemickens>
should force a GC right after that just to drive the point home ;)
<ottidmes>
colemickens: in practice I do, but only after rebooting and seeing everything works
<ldlework>
does nix-store --gc remove your previous generations?
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<elvishjerricco>
ldlework: That'd surprise me
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<elvishjerricco>
If I want to create a FAT32 qemu image, I must use runInLinuxVM, right?
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<elvishjerricco>
Gah. I found `cptofs` to do it, but I can't figure out how to `mkfs.fat` on a GPT formated image file
<{^_^}>
googlei18n/noto-fonts#1021 (by sommerluk, 48 weeks ago, open): Noto Sans Mono: fi ligature in “liga” seems unusual
<elvishjerricco>
`mtools` exists. And so does `dd`... I have successfully build a clover image in a Nix build without resorting to runInLinuxVM :P
<elvishjerricco>
And it boots!
<elvishjerricco>
Doesn't seem to *do* anything. Which is odd; it ought to pick up the USB drive with the macOS installer on it
<elvishjerricco>
I'm guessing I have to make a proper config plist. So that'll suck :P
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<elvishjerricco>
Oh wait the macOS installer is booting. The graphics are destroyed though. But I'm just using the default qemu display, so that's not horribly surprising.
<colemickens>
elvishjerricco: do you mean you made a disk image without runInLinuxVM? I've wondered if that had been done and/or why it hadnt been
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<elvishjerricco>
colemickens: I just managed to copy a directory into a FAT32 raw image and `dd` it into a GPT formatted image
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<elvishjerricco>
Onto the hard part: Dealing with actual hardware. When I run `lscpi`, my Nvidia GPU is showing up fine, but the Intel integrated GPU is not. Why would that be? I assume it's connected via PCI
<sphalerite>
elvishjerricco: it huh, it doesn't show up as a "VGA compatible controller"?
<elvishjerricco>
Right. There is only one such line in the `lspci` output, referring to the nvidia GPU
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<gchristensen>
looks like I get to spend some hours this week / next improving docker tools again
<sphalerite>
\o/
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<gchristensen>
the problem with that, of course, is diving in to the nightmare bash scripts :P
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<__monty__>
infinisil: Any clever tricks today? My fairly naive solution took 3s.
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<infinisil>
__monty__: I haven't done it yet
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<colemickens>
Heh, cpu scaling is working much better now. I still have the funny bug where it scaled to 400Mhz when I plug it into wallpower via my USB Type C hub, even though it acknowledges it's charging.
<colemickens>
Something is weird about the hub though, I think. Sometimes the computer reports "decharging" with a 9000 hour battery life.
<{^_^}>
kubernetes/kubernetes#71411 (by liggitt, 1 week ago, closed): CVE-2018-1002105: proxy request handling in kube-apiserver can leave vulnerable TCP connections
<gchristensen>
sunset is so early here, redshift has started getting ready for night-time now: 15:30
<samueldr>
Sunset 15:58 EST
<gchristensen>
16:20 here, today. 15:58, oof
<colemickens>
um wow. That k8s CVE thread has a IBM manager seemingly worriedly asking if 1.7 is affected.
<colemickens>
I am straight flabbergasted
<joepie91>
colemickens: ha
<infinisil>
__monty__: I've been writing parser and transformation code for over an hour now :P
<infinisil>
Now compiling some ghc8.6 packages because I want a newer version of `time`
<infinisil>
WHAT
<infinisil>
I don't have a newer version of time..
<infinisil>
I thought getting GHC 8.6.2 would give me the latest version which is time-1.9.2, but instead I still have 1.8.0.2 which was the same in GHC 8.4.4 :/
<samueldr>
trying to get more time out of your day?
<infinisil>
Yes lol
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