<infinisil>
Heh, not sure if I deserve that karma, should've never been down to begin with!
<gchristensen>
nonsense, things happen
<sphalerite>
ha, I just used the tac command usefully for the first time I think
<gchristensen>
can't put that much pressure on yourself
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<elvishjerricco>
samueldr, clever: Alright, I am now experiencing that issue with my bluetooth claiming "Protocol not available." What should I try while I'm in this state to debug?
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<etu>
jasongrossman: I think zsh can with plugins
<etu>
jasongrossman: But then I have to configure things :D
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<joepie91>
well, Targa ain't sparing a dollar
<joepie91>
just got back my warranty'd air fryer
<joepie91>
shipped via DHL Premium (ie. priority shipping)
<joepie91>
lol
<infinisil>
Damn, backups are great
<infinisil>
Can recommend
<joepie91>
lol
<joepie91>
infinisil: what went up in fire
<infinisil>
joepie91: server and laptop, at pretty much the same time..
<joepie91>
... how
<joepie91>
(also, 3-2-1 rule go)
<adisbladis>
Wild party? ;)
<infinisil>
server I think because it ran out of space, which lead to all sorts of problems.
<infinisil>
And my zpool on my laptop got corrupted for some reason, can't import it anymore
<infinisil>
I am running unstable zfs, so I guess that's somewhat my fault
<infinisil>
Or it could be that the SSD is failing
<infinisil>
In any case, I only lost a few days worth of laptop data, because everything else was backed up :)
<joepie91>
infinisil: congratulations on being the first person in the past two years that I've seen talk about 'backups' and 'broken hardware' in the same breath without the essence being "I should have made backups"
<joepie91>
:P
<infinisil>
Hehe
<infinisil>
I've learned my lesson about backups about 1 year ago, when something like this happened (server went ko), and i didn't have any backups of it.. Lost some stuff I wouldn't have wanted to lose
<joepie91>
an update on cash-based foreign aid research
<joepie91>
infinisil: aha :P
<jD91mZM2>
Wait, SSD failing? I thought they weren't supposed to randomly fail (unless you punch them with a hammer)
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: Well, probably it's that ZFS failed, I didn't see anything wrong with the SSD. But as long as I haven't tried redoing the storage pool I can't be sure of it
<infinisil>
Well, smart status was okay actually, maybe that's proof enough already
<jD91mZM2>
infinisil: Btw, since ZFS is all about checksumming and making sure data isn't lost... Can you still somehow access data if it detects that something may have been modified?
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: It's failing at an earlier stage already: It can't import the pool because it thinks the device it uses is missing
<infinisil>
And if I can't import the pool, all hope is lost
<jD91mZM2>
infinisil: oh rip
<jD91mZM2>
I am sorry for your loss
<infinisil>
Thanks xD
<infinisil>
Going to switch to ZFS stable though.. Just in case
<jD91mZM2>
Why were you on unstable?
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<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: Wanted to try out crypto
<infinisil>
Didn't use it for my stuff though
<jD91mZM2>
I see! For when it's stable, would you recommend doing crypto using ZFS over full disk encryption?
<sphalerite>
jD91mZM2: it depends on what you want to defend against
<pie_>
i kind of want to try this but it looks like a pain in the butt to package, so many dependencies https://github.com/biolab/orange3
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: There aren't many things that ZFS leaks, I consider it full disk encryption myself
<infinisil>
Definitely will want to use it when it's stable
<infinisil>
Also simplifies stuff, no need to layer devices
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<jD91mZM2>
infinisil: Nice! Will you be able to turn it on, on an existing partition?
<jD91mZM2>
I don't know if that was the correct use of a comma, but I do not want to type "on on an"
<infinisil>
Encryption is per-dataset, but you can't enable encrption for an existing dataset
<infinisil>
You can however create a new encrypted dataset and zfs send/recv the unencrypted one to the encrypted one
<infinisil>
So you need to have some spare space to do this operation
<jD91mZM2>
Oh yeah, good point. If only my drive wasn't so slow :(
<infinisil>
No SSD?
<jD91mZM2>
Nope
<jD91mZM2>
Timing buffered disk reads: 276 MB in 3.00 seconds = 91.92 MB/sec
<jD91mZM2>
(Output of `sudo hdparm -t /dev/sda`)
<infinisil>
,locate bin hdparm
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: hdparm, busybox
<sphalerite>
/dev/nvme0n1: Timing buffered disk reads: 3314 MB in 3.00 seconds = 1104.18 MB/sec
<sphalerite>
I can't complain
<infinisil>
SSD: Timing buffered disk reads: 1578 MB in 3.00 seconds = 525.98 MB/sec
<infinisil>
One HD: Timing buffered disk reads: 578 MB in 3.00 seconds = 192.44 MB/sec
<infinisil>
Other HD: Timing buffered disk reads: 394 MB in 3.01 seconds = 131.07 MB/sec
<infinisil>
Not bad :P
<infinisil>
sphalerite: Isn't that kinda slow for nvme though?
<sphalerite>
is it? idk
<jD91mZM2>
Can I pls sell my soul to the devil for a fast SSD?
<jD91mZM2>
It's not like I use it either way
<sphalerite>
lol
<infinisil>
90MB/s sure is rather slow..
<infinisil>
I can feel the ~150MB/s every time I boot up, which is when stuff gets loaded in the SSD cache. It's really slow until then..
<jD91mZM2>
Somehow ZFS made my bootup faster btw
<jD91mZM2>
I'm guessing it caches more to RAM?
<sphalerite>
compression probably
<sphalerite>
=> less to read from disk, and disk reading is the bottleneck
<jD91mZM2>
Oh, good point
<sphalerite>
I don't think it would make a difference in terms of caching
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<jasongrossman>
<jD91mZM2> 'I don't know if that was the correct use of a comma, but I do not
<jasongrossman>
want to type "on on an" ' ...
<jasongrossman>
... That's a terrific example of why grammatical rules can't be set in concrete (at least, not unless they're going to be unbelievably complicated).
<infinisil>
What's the airport near Nixcon?
<infinisil>
London City seems to be it
<joepie91>
infinisil: caution: there's a lot of variance between airports in London in terms of how easy it is to get through them, from what I've heard
<joepie91>
so the closest airport may not necessarily be the fastest
<joepie91>
well, s/in London/near London/
<emily>
london city airport is the airport with the most convenient location by quite a bit
<emily>
(in general)
<srhb>
Flight prices also differ wildly between them though, usually.
<infinisil>
Hmm, about $275
<emily>
yeah
<infinisil>
From Zurich to London City and back
<emily>
you should probably check gatwick, heathrow, stansted...
<infinisil>
Oh yeah, Heathrow is a lot cheaper, only $165
<infinisil>
It's about twice the distance to NixCon, but that's probably fine
<infinisil>
s/probably//
<infinisil>
And Gatwick for $116, damn
<emily>
I like Gatwick more than Heathrow.
<infinisil>
Why that?
<joepie91>
infinisil: also, dunno if you've been to London before, but be wary of any options that require travelling with something that isn't TfL
<infinisil>
joepie91: No idea what tfl is
<joepie91>
infinisil: basically, London's travel authority, contracts out services to privatized public transport operators, and more importantly makes sure they actually run, on time, and on working infra
<joepie91>
which is a bit of an issue everywhere else :)
<joepie91>
public transport in the UK is, in my experience, an absolute clusterfuck outside of what TfL manages
<infinisil>
I see
<joepie91>
poorly/unmaintained infrastructure, services cancelled without explanation, no transfer coordination, low route frequencies, lack of a good trip planner, etc.
<joepie91>
at one point I was on a train that suddenly slowed down to like... 30km/h? and upon asking some other travelers why that was, I got a straightfaced answer that "well, this piece of track hasn't been maintained for a while, so it wouldn't be safe to go faster than that"
<joepie91>
transport privatization Did Not Go Very Well in the UK :P
<infinisil>
Hehe
<joepie91>
infinisil: anyway, whatever is under the purview of TfL generally runs, outside of scheduled maintenance
<infinisil>
Huh, it seems that it's faster to go from Gatwick to the center than from Heathrow (which is about twice as near)
<infinisil>
Alright, so I think I'll go for Gatewick
<infinisil>
(Even though it's not Tfl managed)
<emily>
joepie91: haha, it's really sad to hear europeans describe UK public transport :(
<emily>
(like, of course objectively I always knew it was bad, but it's also my reference point, so it doesn't strike me as particularly depressing)
<joepie91>
emily: I suspect that you can't really disagree with it either, though :P
<joepie91>
heh, right
<joepie91>
I think that's part of why it isn't fixed
<joepie91>
it's perceived as "that's just how public transport is"
<joepie91>
similar to the US in that sense, I guess
<joepie91>
and if it were centrally controlled you could at least change that with a few of the right-minded people in government.... but privatized, it ain't gonna be fixed
<joepie91>
too many people to convince to do things that go against their short-term best interest
<emily>
well, also the UK is far too busy paying for pointless terrible stuff it brings on itself right now, so there's no money left to spend on necessary things.
<joepie91>
emily: afaik multiple operators are in violation of service level requirements, it's just not being enforced
<joepie91>
so even with no budget other than a single inspector, it could be improved to some degree
<joepie91>
TfL seems the only one with teeth
* emily
nods
<infinisil>
Switzerland has it pretty good regarding reliability
<joepie91>
but yeah, no mindshare, so...
<infinisil>
It's just a tad too expensive
<joepie91>
oh man
<joepie91>
I thought NL public transport was expensive
<joepie91>
and compared to eg. France, it is
<joepie91>
but then I travelled to the UK lol
<joepie91>
somehow train operators in the UK manage to charge considerably more for considerably worse service
<joepie91>
no idea about Switzerland, never been there, but I've heard from other people that it's expensive as well :P
<joepie91>
on that note, I still wonder how the economics of the Paris metro work
<emily>
we also have a nice privatised energy market where the companies are mostly owned by other european state-owned providers.
<joepie91>
it's like, 1.10 EUR flatfee per trip regardless of distance
<emily>
(by "nice" I mean bad.)
<joepie91>
and every single Parisian seems to jump the gates, just tourists paying for tickets
<joepie91>
how can that possibly be sustainable lol
<joepie91>
emily: heh, yeah, privatization is fun innit
<infinisil>
I have this so-called GA for Switzerland, wich which you can travel with almost all public transport in switzerland
<infinisil>
The standard price for an adult (2nd class) is CHF 3860
<infinisil>
..
<infinisil>
For <25y.o. it's CHF 2650
<infinisil>
For me it's even cheaper though, because my Dad has a GA already, then you get a family advantage and can get it for like CHF 900
<infinisil>
And they've increased this every year
<infinisil>
1 CHF is about 1 USD fyi
<andi->
I pay 2.40€ for a 2km ride with the tram.. In my "little" town :/
<infinisil>
Has user-created themes for sites (and you can submit your own), looks much better than just color inverting or so
<joepie91>
infinisil: having used dark reader for a day or two now... it's working shockingly well, it's certainly not just color inverting
<infinisil>
I see
<joepie91>
I actually find that it produces better color schemes than most of the user-provided dark stylesheets do
<joepie91>
downside: it increases page loading time, at least in the dynamic mode
<joepie91>
(which produces BY FAR the best results)
<infinisil>
Probably the first thing I'll want to do in London is get me one of dem oyster cards right?
<joepie91>
infinisil: yeah
<joepie91>
infinisil: also, keep in mind that they auto-cap at the 'day pass' cost, at least for tube travel
<emily>
"card"? no, it's a literal oyster you have to carry around.
<joepie91>
so there's no need to purchase a day pass upfront
<joepie91>
at least it was that way when I last visited
<emily>
it's england, they're old-fashioned like that.
<emily>
<__<;
<infinisil>
:P
<samueldr>
I hear it's not to be confused with the three shells
<infinisil>
Ah, and oyster cards are pretty much free and you just pay as you go?
<infinisil>
Sounds neat
<joepie91>
infinisil: also, I don't know what kind of banking system y'all use in Switzerland, but beware that Maestro cards do *not* work everywhere; in particular, where ticket machines at tube stations are concerned, they'll only work at the larger tube stations
<joepie91>
most store payment terminals accept them just fine
<joepie91>
most ATMs do also
<joepie91>
(so long as you stay within London itself; travel outside it, and support for it gets worse rapidly)
<LnL>
infinisil: yeah, you get one the first time and then you can just use and refill it
<infinisil>
joepie91: I see, yeah I have indeed a maestro
<infinisil>
LnL: Sweet
<joepie91>
infinisil: right; from what i know, all the common international traveling hubs have Maestro-capable machines, and most likely you can purchase your Oyster card right at the airport
<LnL>
before you go back you can also refund the money that's still on there I think, but didn't do that last time since I knew I was going back
<joepie91>
so if you buy it there and top it up, you should be fine
<joepie91>
(would recommend keeping some cash on hand though)
<infinisil>
Aren't credit card payments from abroad much more expensive?
<infinisil>
Like an additional fee
<LnL>
dunno, I just used my card for almost everything
<samueldr>
(contact your bank)
<samueldr>
since there are knowledgeable people here: I'm there for a full week, expecting to move around do yet-undefined things; any additional tips for public transit?
<joepie91>
(zone 1 is center-most; higher zone numbers as you move outwards)
<LnL>
infinisil: there might be, but I don't think it's worse than whatever it is to get money from an atm
<joepie91>
samueldr: within central London, public transport is frequent and generally reliable, although make sure to check upfront whether there's planned maintenance, as it causes a big mess and eg. tube replacement buses can be... difficult to find
<sphalerite>
<late to the party> I spent 2 months in Germany with a lot of travelling by train this summer. It wasn't perfect but the infrastructure is SO much better
<joepie91>
(ran into this issue myself)
<sphalerite>
(living in Scotland normally)
<joepie91>
samueldr: do keep in mind that public transport, especially tube, does *not* run 24/7
<joepie91>
iirc there's a few night buses but not too many
<sphalerite>
So I'm looking forward to that when I move to Germany :D
<samueldr>
yeah, I read that, and not an issue as it's not a luxury I am used to
<joepie91>
samueldr: all the usual warnings apply, beware of pickpockets and such, it can get pretty cramped during rush hour
<joepie91>
samueldr: if you plan on doing rail travel; *do* get a day pass, because iirc the daily cap does not apply there
<joepie91>
also; there are afaik quite a few free-entry museums and other sights, if that's your thing
<samueldr>
yeah, the only time I looked weeks ago rail travel seemed... complicated
<infinisil>
Ah, and it seems that I can use the Oyster card for all transport, Tfl, Thameslink, southeastern
<infinisil>
(I apparently need Thameslink and southeastern to get from Gatwick to the hotel)
<joepie91>
samueldr: public parks and locks and such can be nice places when you don't feel like doing anything in particular, people around there are generally friendly; however (and this is third-party knowledge) it's probably unwise to flaunt wealth in certain areas of London
<joepie91>
samueldr: also, especially in the central part of London, it can be difficult to find decent food; many 'real' restaurants only start serving customers around 17:30 or even later, so this is possibly an issue if you're nocturnal :P many supermarkets are open late though
<joepie91>
it's not uncommon to see supermarkets, even discounters like Lidl, closing at 22:00 or 23:00
<infinisil>
There's Lidl in London? :<O
<joepie91>
oh yes
<joepie91>
they're everywhere
<joepie91>
or at least, in the residential areas
<joepie91>
dunno about central
<joepie91>
my stays in London have always been at a squat, so :P
<infinisil>
I see
<joepie91>
samueldr: I think that's about everything I can come up with
<joepie91>
oh, yeah; make sure you have some sort of navigation on hand
<samueldr>
:)
<joepie91>
can be difficult to find things otherwise, signage around London is... not great
<emily>
"there's no transport and you might die ... but they do have Lidl!"
<joepie91>
hahaha
<joepie91>
sounds about right
<LnL>
lol
<joepie91>
emily: it still amuses me to no end how Lidl is trying to market themselves as a high-end supermarket in the UK
<joepie91>
and... more amusingly... succeeding
<emily>
aldi were doing it first
<joepie91>
not as successfully, evidently :P
<samueldr>
I'll probably be diurnal
<joepie91>
samueldr: oh yeah, beware streetfood and too-cheap-to-be-true takeaway places; it might be a western country, but food safety standards are, uh, let's just say they're not universally applied
<emily>
you make london sound so terrifying :D
<joepie91>
nah, I just like to get the bewares out of the way
<joepie91>
:p
<samueldr>
hmm, now that's a bit more worrying
<sphalerite>
yeah I like lidl. They have wonderful sticky toffee pudding
<joepie91>
there's definitely positive points; quite lively, you can get away with a *lot* of things (unlike eg. NL where something is very quickly considered 'disturbing public order')
<samueldr>
especially the "too cheap to be true", which is hard to gauge when not from there!
<sphalerite>
PSA: sticky toffee pudding is a very british dessert that I can wholeheartedly recmomend trying
* emily
is originally from small-to-medium size northern england towns, which probably enhances the amusement here
<joepie91>
I recall a particular night where we wandered through London with a giant portable soundsystem mounted on a shopping trolley
<joepie91>
kind of, uh, assembling an ad-hoc parade of random evening folk deciding to follow and dance
<sphalerite>
o.O
<joepie91>
cops were just looking at it and laughing
<joepie91>
good luck trying that in NL :P
<emily>
sphalerite: there is also "spotted dick" in the same vein
<emily>
(no, really...)
<sphalerite>
I lived in England for 11 years and Scotland for 4. And still haven't tried that.
<sphalerite>
Damn it.
<joepie91>
sphalerite: when I say "too cheap to be true" I mean things like "two burgers for 1 pound"
<sphalerite>
I looked it up recently, it does sound delicious
<joepie91>
er
<joepie91>
samueldr: *
<emily>
"While "spotted" is a clear reference to the dried fruit in the pudding (which resemble spots), "dick" is more obscure."
<joepie91>
samueldr: general rule of thumb, if a food place looks dodgy, it's probably dodgy
<joepie91>
:P
<joepie91>
also, I can strongly recommend walking-through-London-with-a-portable-soundsystem
<joepie91>
makes for much amusement
<joepie91>
especially a night
<joepie91>
plop down in random open area, instant party
<infinisil>
Great, using a program to modify a PDF only for it to pop up with a message "The unregistered version will insert a watermark"
<infinisil>
AFter 10 minutes of editing
<infinisil>
I sure as hell won't pay $70 for a program I'm probably only using once in my lifetime
<infinisil>
The program is masterpdfeditor, it sure can do a lot though, I admit
<infinisil>
Great, next choice, pdfmod, fails to start
<infinisil>
Next choice, LibreOffice Draw pretty much destroys the original PDF looks
<sphalerite>
infinisil: hyper_ch did the packaging for that iirc
<sphalerite>
I think they're the only user of it x)
<sphalerite>
nixpkgs should have antifeatures metadata like F-Droid
<infinisil>
Ohh I found one that works
<infinisil>
xournal is perfect
<samueldr>
infinisil: it always depends on whether you want to keep the text metadata or not; but xournal is great for signing then sending back
<samueldr>
where signing = hand drawn squigglies and not the whoe crypto thing :/
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<deltasquared>
elvishjerricco: I don't recall the precise reasons, it was a long time ago.
<deltasquared>
that said, I do have a nixos boot disk of sorts for repair operations, and it works excellently for that
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Yea, my impression of NixOS is that it's pretty much as minimal as Arch, except that it has a bunch of Nix expressions built in for automatically doing more advanced stuff at your will.
<deltasquared>
IIRC the disagreement may have been "something something bootloader shit" and also something firewall related, not sure
<deltasquared>
(not as in the bootloader was turds, just that something related to the bootloader annoyed me)
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Ah, I'm not too knowledgeable in the boot loader area. I know you can choose between grub and systemd-boot though :P
* emily
wonders where the first part of this chat was
<deltasquared>
emily: sorry, context lost in #haskell :P
<elvishjerricco>
emily: Started over in #haskell
* samueldr
was about to say
<deltasquared>
tl;dr distro packages of ghc being daft, suggested getting from nix
<emily>
ahh
<deltasquared>
> on #haskell: I would have gone full nixos before now if it weren't for certain disagreements I had with nixos trying to do too much for my liking, but that's a story for another time and another channel I suspect.
<{^_^}>
undefined variable 'on' at (string):195:1
<deltasquared>
oops, sorry bot
<deltasquared>
again, I don't recall what it was that was "too much"
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: I'd be curious to see what the difference is between a minimal Arch and minimal NixOS installation. I wonder how that could be measured?
<deltasquared>
installed size? :P
<joepie91>
deltasquared: my guess would be 'systemd'
<deltasquared>
joepie91: actually no
<deltasquared>
I'm fine with systemd
<joepie91>
ah; that tends to be what people complain about when it comes to 'minimalism' :)
<deltasquared>
it wasn't that it *installed* too much, I've let that fight pass a long time ago
<deltasquared>
come to think of it, it may have been my previously weird encryption setup, which has now changed to be somewhat saner
<deltasquared>
well, it's still unusual, but it's entirely contained inside systemd now, for the most part
* samueldr
is always interested in weird setups
<joepie91>
another common complaint is something that amounts to "I can't sidestep Nix in my system management" (eg. hot-patching config files)
<samueldr>
even if insane and not to be used :)
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: I was turned off by NixOS automatically managing /etc with immutable files at first. Eventually came to love that though
<emily>
the nice thing about NixOS is that you can rip out or monkeypatch stuff if you want.
<emily>
I feel more able to set up esoteric setups with NixOS, even if a bit kludgy, compared to going against the assumptions of other distros
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Now I'm curious about your encryption setup :P
<elvishjerricco>
I didn't think systemd really had anything to do with encryption
<deltasquared>
samueldr: don't ask because I can't even remember, it's that bad, hacks accumulate over the years of not having to back up and eventually when I got a new SSD: "fsck it, we'll redo from scratch"
<joepie91>
emily: you do need to pay for that with having to play by Nix' rules though
<joepie91>
and if you're not familiar with it, that seems like a large cost
<joepie91>
:P
<deltasquared>
elvishjerricco: it has to do with a service template I wrote, which does cryptsetup unlocks from a "master key store" of sorts
<elvishjerricco>
joepie91: I've yet to encounter a Nix rule that I couldn't find a workaround for :P
* emily
shrugs
<joepie91>
elvishjerricco: I mean, that's one approach... lol
<samueldr>
deltasquared: why fsck if you had a brand new storage? *ducks*
<emily>
joepie91: I've been a mildly-obnoxious FP advocate for like a decade now, so I guess that cost is thoroughly sunk >_>;
<joepie91>
elvishjerricco: are you a QA tester by profession, by any chance
<joepie91>
:P
<deltasquared>
samueldr: because LVM, that's why :P
<joepie91>
emily: hahaha
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Is your root encrypted?
<deltasquared>
LVM ALL THE THINGS
<deltasquared>
elvishjerricco: negative
<deltasquared>
for performance reasons
<deltasquared>
I have no hardware AES :/
<samueldr>
deltasquared: joking about the meaning of "fsck" here :)
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Ah, so you boot an unencrypted root, get systemd running, and have it decrypt your /home or something?
<joepie91>
emily: I really do often see the complaint that "I can't just follow the install guide, I have to translate everything to Nix first" though
<emily>
sure
<elvishjerricco>
Is CPU still a bottleneck in disk encryption? I was under the impression that encrypting data was way faster than actual IO
<joepie91>
emily: which in some ways is valid, but is more than offset by the sheer pain of cobbling together tutorials for configuring stuff *without* a centrally-defined set of optioins for everything......
<joepie91>
options*
<joepie91>
but that's often not obvious at the outset
<joepie91>
:P
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: How does systemd authenticate the "master key store of sorts"?
<deltasquared>
elvishjerricco: it goes like this: boot unencrypted root (in 7 secs! yow the speed), switch to tty10 where a prompt waits, type in password for an encrypted master key store, which in turn holds keys for other encrypted bits
<joepie91>
(to somebody new to Nix)
<emily>
joepie91: *nods* it's more like I've always wanted declarative OS config but worried about NixOS's tradeoffs
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Ah, nice
<deltasquared>
subsequent bits needing things from the key store are demand unlocked when needed by systemd units
<deltasquared>
so I only enter one master key, but also keys are not in memory if not needed
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Unlocking a key store for systemd's free usage is a pretty cool idea.
<elvishjerricco>
What do you use for key store?
<deltasquared>
a luks container, heh
<deltasquared>
luks container and then just key files in that
<elvishjerricco>
interesting... I use pass + git to do all my secret management.
<deltasquared>
I was partway through the writing of a systemd generator which would generate the necessary unit files to make this work
<deltasquared>
which is when I wanted the haskell package "refined"
<deltasquared>
and hence my ghc woes
<deltasquared>
well that was nicely circular
<elvishjerricco>
lol
<deltasquared>
haskell, because well it's just reading some plain text files and generating more text (then IO boilerplate), if that's not a candidate for a pure lang then I don't know what is
<deltasquared>
come to think of it, it'd fit pretty well in nix too, would only have to regenerate if the input files changed... :thinking face:
<deltasquared>
hmm, I don't have a nix tree on this SSD yet... what perfect opportunity
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* deltasquared
puts on some tracker mod music
<deltasquared>
what is it about seeing all that music data whizzing past on screen
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: Heh, yea I've started doing things with Nix that Nix was never really intended to do.
<joepie91>
emily: right
<elvishjerricco>
It's a very good candidate for "pure programs with IO boiler plate"
<deltasquared>
well, at it's core it's just a purely functional make, no?
<elvishjerricco>
deltasquared: I suppose that's somewhat accurate.
<deltasquared>
random thought, how does steam with the bundled runtime disabled fare on nixos? I'd guess not too well without some sort of env wrapper
<samueldr>
you pretty much summed it up
<deltasquared>
it's not like lib versions are an issue, steam-native works well on arch non-testing which is semi-bleeding edge
<samueldr>
it has a FHS user environment to make all the non-free stuff behave
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<deltasquared>
huh, I could have sworn the bootstrap tarball was bigger than 22MB last time...
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<samueldr>
oh wow wtf, but in a good way
<samueldr>
ctrl+shift+middle-mouse-button-drag in the new gimp is trippy!
<samueldr>
non-destructive canvas rotation
<samueldr>
oh, no need to ctrl
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