<LnL>
what a night, rewrote an old project and upgraded a machine to 18.03 at 2am
<LnL>
also no tests
<gchristensen>
wow
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<andi->
Are you feeling lucky? :)
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<mkaito>
<3
<lesh>
:)
<srhb>
mkaito: o/
<srhb>
I must say I'm both impressed and surprised with Linus' announcement in the release notes.
<srhb>
If he managed to keep up his professionalism regarding patches without making personal attacks, I'll be even more impressed.
<srhb>
manages*
<sphalerite>
mkaito: IMHO the move to discourse was a good one — simply becase before that we were on google groups which is really a bottom-of-the-barrel mailing list system
<mkaito>
google groups is indeed not a very good list system, but it's easy to set up and doesn't require you to run a server, I guess.
<srhb>
Google groups was indeed terrible.. The mailing list before that was fine though. But of course, it doesn't really cater to the people who want a web UI.
<sphalerite>
if we still had nix-devel@lists.uu.nl or whatever it was, that would be nice
<sphalerite>
but yeah I don't think I'd want to go back to that simply because of the amount of discourse (lol) that Discourse has already fostered
<sphalerite>
so many more people actually participating
<lesh>
I think we should never give up on the basics, like open protcols, choose your own client, and gpg, the same reason we are using IRC now, but seems like discourse has a bidirectional email setup so it could work exactly like the mailing list, while providing a nice web ui
<qyliss^work>
Disource's mailing list interface is surprisingly good
<sphalerite>
^
<sphalerite>
I use both the mailing list and the web interface
<lesh>
then we only gained I think, standard mailing list gui is usually that terrible skeleton that I suppose is written in perl or something, not sure how it's called :D
<srhb>
mailman? :P
<lesh>
yeah :D
<qyliss^work>
I don't like that it won't send more than 100 emails a day, but I guess it's understandable.
<qyliss^work>
Makes it unusable with the Rust one because I only get half a conversation
<sphalerite>
discourse?
<qyliss^work>
Yeah
<srhb>
lesh: I think it's actually python these days :)
<sphalerite>
oh, I didn't know about that
<sphalerite>
that is a pain
<srhb>
lesh: But it does have that retro feel.
<gchristensen>
sphalerite: well we had to leave lists.uu.nl, that is why we moved to google groups
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: yeah I know. Sad times :p
<gchristensen>
yeah
<mkaito>
I don't care for fancy web interfaces. I even use slack through weechat. But I guess some people love them.
<gchristensen>
that is true! :)
<srhb>
I hate myself for loving slack... But I do. :|
<mkaito>
but if you ever want a dedicated mailing list, I'm sure my company will be very happy to sponsor a server. Or I'll do that personally.
<mkaito>
(not like anyone but myself would ever notice a stray server on our cloud anyway)
<srhb>
lol.
<srhb>
20 years from now there will be all manner of "wisdoms" about losing things in the cloud.
<sphalerite>
yeah, which is why I think discourse is good. It caters to "most people" (all the people who are posting on discourse and didn't on the mailing list!) while not ignoring people who prefer to use their email clients
<sphalerite>
srhb: maybe people will start calling it the fog
<mkaito>
I'll have to give the email interface a serious try
<mkaito>
we actually moved to Packet because meh cloud
<srhb>
sphalerite: I did something like that at a meeting where my boss was presenting our "cloud" to other bosses in the company
<srhb>
sphalerite: It juts slipped out of me: "It's more like a low hanging fog right now..."
<srhb>
Oh how I wish I could eat my own words
<sphalerite>
isn't that also sort of the origin of the name "cloud"? The use of clouds in diagrams to represent things that you're just handwaving away
<sphalerite>
srhb: hahahaha that's brilliant
<sphalerite>
how was it received?
<srhb>
I got some stares. Very red face. :P
<mkaito>
I thought it was because it's some mysterious undefined bunch of who-knows-what "somewhere not here"
<sphalerite>
srhb: damn these bosses have no sense of humour
<sphalerite>
srhb++
<{^_^}>
srhb's karma got increased to 17
<srhb>
:3
<sphalerite>
have some karma :D
<mkaito>
also s/cloud/butt/
<sphalerite>
mkaito: yeah that's what I was trying to say, you phrased it better
<mkaito>
I think containers are the epytome of cloud computing. just shove it all in there and forget it exists, then spawn 500 of them if it's ever just slightly slow. It's "I don't care" computing of the finest degree.
<srhb>
Kill it with iron is often a viable strategy, if not very satisfying..
<mkaito>
as I said, we moved to packet. now we've started to talk about containers again. But I must not slap people. Because that's apparently bad manners.
<sphalerite>
hahaha
<gchristensen>
mkaito: Packet has a dedicated #nixos channel on their Slack, fwiw
<sphalerite>
srhb: what do you like about slack?
<mkaito>
I hope it's not the emoji
<srhb>
sphalerite: I actually quite enjoy the interface.
<srhb>
mkaito: :| Totally... not.. the emojis... (I love them)
<mkaito>
gchristensen: I think some of us already hang out there. maybe I'll join.
<gchristensen>
who is us? :)
<mkaito>
serokell
<gchristensen>
ah cool
<sphalerite>
srhb: haha
<gchristensen>
yes I think so
<mkaito>
I'm the idiot that manages the devops team. The smart people already hang out over there.
<LnL>
oh, they have a nixos channel?
<LnL>
the fp slack is the only place I know of with another nix channel
<gchristensen>
yeah, for nixos-specific issues at Packet + world domination planning
<LnL>
:D
<gchristensen>
now that they finally released their 60 second provision time feature I can release the current version of the Packet NixOS ccode
<LnL>
nice, I really wish I had a reason to use them
<gchristensen>
for all the sponsorship they provide NixOS I happily rent 1x of their cheapest machines personally
<gchristensen>
but ... yeah
<manveru>
i wish they were actually affordable :)
<srhb>
Wow, their small machines are much cheaper than I thought...
<srhb>
Am I really reading that right
<manveru>
the smallest is like 50 eur/m
<srhb>
Yeah, okay.
<manveru>
granted, it's not actually "small" :)
<manveru>
but way overkill for what i need
<gchristensen>
I tend to rent expensive machines for an hour, when I'm doing a big build of some sort.
<{^_^}>
jeaye/nixos-in-place#41 (by nh2, 22 weeks ago, open): Instructions on how to use this to make a Hetzner Cloud snapshot (includes moving /old-root/nixos to /)
<manveru>
but i got really strange permission errors when running the nixos-install
<manveru>
it works manually, but apparently not via ssh...
<manveru>
haven't found a way to debug this yet
<andi->
I did it via ssh :/
<manveru>
yes
<manveru>
i meant, with a script you execute over ssh instead of typing in the terminal
<andi->
I'll try to find some time this evening to look into that.. I have to do smoe more (boring) work now -,-
<manveru>
likewise :)
<manveru>
for work i'll most likely have to use ec2 anyway, but for my own stuff i'd like to stick with hetzner
<manveru>
at least until vpsfree has a stable version of nixos support released...
<manveru>
i might try another approach that uses rescue system from the start and simply installs from the iso you can mount in hcloud
<andi->
I just demonstrated how they could have had an easier elasticsearch, mongodb, greylog setup vd their 1 week of ansible scripting.. So we will start to look into NixOS here sooon(tm)... \o/
<srhb>
andi-: Grats! You're doing the good work!
<andi->
ALso showed them how much easier other things are we do here.. slowly showing them the dark side
<manveru>
nice :)
<manveru>
i really just hope that nix on macos becomes more stable...
<andi->
it is really great being able to benefit from the work of previous people.. "standing on the shoulders of giants"
<manveru>
almost all our devs are on macs, it's painful
<manveru>
curse you DHH
<sphalerite>
DHH?
<manveru>
david heinemeier hanson
<manveru>
i blame him for rails and popularizing macs in the ruby community :P
<sphalerite>
ah ok
<samueldr>
manveru: "blame him for rails", this leaves me more curious than anything :)
<samueldr>
(you're not forced to respond)
<manveru>
:)
<mkaito>
as a rubyist that hates rails, I blame him for trying too hard to be Linus and just coming off as a huge douche.
<manveru>
sorry, i have old grudges against rails that go back to 2005 or so when i first tried it for a few days and decided it's bullshit with cherries on top
<mkaito>
I don't think that's worth a grudge. You can just not use Rails :P
<manveru>
somehow i always end up back in rails shops :P
<manveru>
though my current project is in go, we have to integrate with a ton of rails apps anyway
<mkaito>
I don't really understand the fascination with Go, personally.
<mkaito>
(or Haskell, but don't tell my boss, because I work at a Haskell shop)
<manveru>
lol
<manveru>
yeah, i just happened to do 2-3 years of go back in 2011
<manveru>
and we needed a language i can teach in a few weeks
<manveru>
to avoid just using rails again
<mkaito>
ah yes, hammer/rails.
<mkaito>
We've started doing Elixir for that kind of thing. Most people can pick it up and be useful in a week or so. It's like Ruby, but on the Erlang VM and no DHH!
<manveru>
yeah, i like elixir too, and we have another team using that
<manveru>
but for a simple rest api proxy we felt that's overkill because it makes deploys a bit harder
<manveru>
and it doesn't have a proper type system as well
<manveru>
not that i'd call go proper :P
<manveru>
but it at least has some
<gchristensen>
this new "Create a pull request for 'check-outputs-in-meta'" output from github is A+
<aszlig>
gchristensen: well, i'm in contact with them since i wrote the hetzner backend for nixops and i originally just asked whether they have kind of a test account...
<aszlig>
gchristensen: turned out this was always the wrong question so i decided to explicitly ask for sponsoring
<elvishjerricco>
Anyone have a script for deleting old generations in a pattern like "All generations from the past 2 days, at most one generation for each day of the past week, at most one generation for each week of the past month"?
<elvishjerricco>
er, that's the pattern for generations to keep, not to delete :P
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<infinisil>
elvishjerricco: Where do generations even keep track of date?
<elvishjerricco>
infinisil: I think it might just be based on the unix timestamp of the generation's symlink
<elvishjerricco>
not sure though
<infinisil>
Ohh that's probably it
<infinisil>
Can't think of any other way, a generation is really only a symlink after all
<elvishjerricco>
infinisil: Yea, I mean I'm not calling it a hard problem. Just wondering if a script for it already exists :)
<infinisil>
Yeah, I don't know of one, would sure be interesting to write it though :o
<infinisil>
`stat -c %Z` to get the time
<elvishjerricco>
Ideally it's a pure function: `TimePlan -> [Generation] -> [Generation]`
<infinisil>
Yeah
<infinisil>
And Generation can just be (Int, UTCTime)
<elvishjerricco>
Yea
<elvishjerricco>
Though I'd be lazy and just use `FilePath` instead of `Int` :P
<infinisil>
Or even `TimePlan -> Map Int UTCTime -> Map Int UTCTime`
<infinisil>
(or IntMap at that)
<andi->
So, seems like I successfully deployed a hetzner cloud server with terraform \o/
<andi->
It is just that terraform didn't notice that yet :/