gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<pie__> samueldr, :)
<pie__> infinisil, also :)
* pie__ mumbles the things noone ever does with backups which is test them <infinisil> I was lucky for everything to have broken down just before the weekend, gave me enough time to go through these steps
* pie__ mumbles that noone ever has backups either but eh :P
<samueldr> in my case I was lucky, didn't even need to resort to the backups
<samueldr> the SSD failed ONLY in the ESP
<samueldr> I still verified the data compared to what was elsewhere
<samueldr> but no need to download a bunch of things
<samueldr> though, borg-backup, I *did* verify in the past that I could use the produced data
<clever> samueldr: i just now found release notes reporting that my main desktop SSD's will tend to just lock up and stop responding to IO
<clever> which would explain why the machine has been randomly hanging for years
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<samueldr> fun!
<clever> samueldr: the dedicated (windows only) util for updating the firmware also fails with a non-descript error
<samueldr> stop hogging all the fun :)
<clever> its already a raid mirror between 2 sata ssd (which both have the buggy firmware), and one nvme drive
<clever> so i could just drop the buggy drives from the array
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<sphalerite> samueldr: huh, how did it fail in the ESP?
<sphalerite> oh btw steveeJ: re the stuff you were doing yesterday — just a little bit of feedback, by using e.g. ${buildPkgsPath} you're importing buildPkgs into the nix store if it's not already there, which shouldn't really be necessary for your purposes. It's rather counter-intuitive but you can use ${toString buildPkgsPath} instead to import it in-place
<steveeJ> sphalerite: that's practical to know, thanks!
<steveeJ> I thought that surrounding it with quotes would be the same
<sphalerite> nope. It's an unfortunate unintuitive behaviour
<steveeJ> as long as the GC finds it that's ok
<sphalerite> srhb: anything back from hetzner re HTTPS btw?
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<sphalerite> TIL: gpg --recv-keys <ID of a previously obtained key> is different from gpg --refresh-keys <same ID>
<sphalerite> I'd have hoped that the former would update it too >.<
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<ekleog> ,locate sendmail
<{^_^}> Found in packages: exim, vmime, msmtp, quilt, inferno, postfix, busybox, and 1 more
<ekleog> ugh. which is this “1 more”? x)
<sphalerite> funny how "and 1 more" is probably longer than the name of the package :p
* ekleog still doesn't understand how postfix's sendmail manages to require being setuid
<ekleog> that just breaks so many possibilities for purity
<etu> sphalerite: Oh. Thanks for that note. I've had times when I've done recv-keys and wondered why it didn't update it.
<ekleog> (and how mail servers can't agree on a place to put the listening socket, so that there could be a single `sendmail` binary that'd work for all mailservers, too)
<sphalerite> etu: it frustrated me to no end today!
<etu> sphalerite: Once I sit and looked up the key on the keyserver, specified the keyserver and recv-keys on a key and still didn't get the updated signatures.
<etu> sphalerite: So I think I deleted the key from the keystore and imported it again. So yeah, now it makes sense but it sucks, I wish a recv would refresh as well :p
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<sphalerite> so my new chromebook has some rubber feet with screws hidden underneath. They were attached with little plastic stickers, which were ruined by peeling the feet off
<sphalerite> now I'm wondering if there's a good way to put the rubber feet back on in such a way that they won't come off by accident but can still be removed and reattached easily.
<sphalerite> Any suggestions welcome :D
<srhb> sphalerite: I'm not sure. My terminal was completely messed up, and instead of doing the smart thing and terminating, I must have pressed enter. Instant k-line. :)
<sphalerite> huh
<sphalerite> but the stuff that came in there didn't look like the result of pressing enter
<etu> srhb: in my client it looked like you spammed loads of spaces so it became many messages in a short matter of time
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<srhb> Can't explain that. I don't have a cat that could have sabotaged my keyboard. :D
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<sphalerite> ghost cat!
<srhb> :3
<srhb> Maybe I just wished for a cat hard enough and I got all the ill effects.
<andi-> sphalerite: hot glue ;)
* andi- is kind of paralyzed at this monday.. Staring at the mutations of a text file his fuzzer generates..
<sphalerite> andi-: I suspect that will make the screws very difficult to remove in the future? Also not easy to put the feet back on after removing them again :/
<srhb> sphalerite: Why not simply move the feet elsewhere leaving the screws exposed?
<sphalerite> then I'd have to take off the other feet that don't have screws under them to keep it balanced :/ but yes that might be a good idea
<sphalerite> then I can just use superglue
<srhb> I think any solution that sticks them back over the screws will suffer the same problem you have now, at least. :)
<sphalerite> velcro? :D
<srhb> Well, where do you attach the velcro :P
<sphalerite> um
<sphalerite> good point
<srhb> ;)
<srhb> Bootstrapping problems are so annoying!
<sphalerite> oh yes. I'm just struggling with debootstrap myself
<srhb> Maybe if you could make a circular velcro attachment around the screw hole :P
<sphalerite> use a hole punch to make screw holes in the velcro
<srhb> Or just screw the screw right through it.
<srhb> Violence is a good solution to bootstrapping, in my experience.
<sphalerite> ooooh
<sphalerite> not sure it'll work for debian but yeah
<srhb> :D
<andi-> sphalerite: debootstrap using nix!
<sphalerite> jelly | sphalerite: might be worth filing a bug report upstream (= debian) for debootstrap
<sphalerite> jelly | Nix isn't _that_ obscure any more
<sphalerite> zomg
<andi-> I recently had a discussion about nix with a debian developer and he almost know what he was talking about (when talking about nix stuff).. It was a bit scary. Is this becoming mainstream?
<sphalerite> lol
<srhb> Well, that would certainly be nice.
<gchristensen> I like this not avoiding success at all costs thing
<andi-> He was under the impression we would package every dependency of everything manually.. Not using things like carnix, npm2nix, ...
<srhb> gchristensen: I think you've got the parantheses wrong there :P
<gchristensen> haha
<andi-> So whats everyone up to this week? I am just reviewing code and being grumpy... :)
<andi-> (and obviously bored)
<sphalerite> moving to Germany!
<gchristensen> :O
<sphalerite> my flight's on Saturday
<gchristensen> willkommen! wozu?
<andi-> s/wozu/wohin/ ?
<sphalerite> Ich ziehe nach München
<gchristensen> auch!
<sphalerite> Für meinen neuen Job :)
<andi-> what are you going to do?
<sphalerite> aaah crap that reminds me, I forgot to rejoin #nixos-de (and #nixos-fr)
<srhb> Apparently everyone here understands German anyway... :P
<srhb> I'm most surprised about gchristensen though :D
<gchristensen> klein ;)
<srhb> Ich spreche auch nur ein bisschen..
<andi-> great, lets switch the repository to german?
<srhb> lol
<srhb> Alternatively, we rename it "Nothing"
<gchristensen> that'd be a hoot, Eelco doesn't know German x)
<srhb> Oh really
<gchristensen> nicht sehr gut
<andi-> I am the guy at the office that insists on documentation being in english because we are producing software not just for germans and we do have some non-natives and it is a lot easier for them to do their job if they don't have to google translate everything...
<srhb> My spotify is currently in a hole where it insists on playing either german or finnish music - nothing else.
<srhb> I'm not terribly proficient in either language.
<andi-> srhb: give it a few years
<srhb> :D
<srhb> I think Finnish will require quite a bit more!
<sphalerite> lol
<srhb> Especially since my current proficiency basically amounts to "kippis" and trusting in non-verbal communication from there...
<srhb> Which, admittedly, goes a surprising distance.
<sphalerite> [linus@indigo:~]$ echo keycode 133 = Escape Escape Escape Escape | xmodmap -
<sphalerite> this could be modern poetry
<gchristensen> ok so my flights from Boston -> London, then Amesterdam -> Boston were just bought, for less than 350eur per person.
<gchristensen> how??
<sphalerite> wow
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<sphalerite> summoning person who seems to know things about economics working in weird ways: joepie91 joepie91 joepie91
<samueldr> "were just bought"?
<sphalerite> I'm guessing Tweag paid for them
<samueldr> I was wondering if the question was "how are they so cheap" or "how were 'they just bought'"
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<gchristensen> how are they so cheap?
<samueldr> to spite me and my fancy coloured plastic money
<sphalerite> lol
<sphalerite> I do think I've read something before about the crazy economics of airlines before, don't really remember any details though
* joepie91 appeareth
<gchristensen> on an unrelated note https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m_Wq48Ep2Y
<joepie91> gchristensen: sphalerite: https://www.youtube.com/user/Wendoverproductions/videos has a number of videos on airline economics that summarize it really well
<joepie91> gchristensen: was this wowair by any chance? that's usually the only airline I see going that low transatlantic
<gchristensen> Delta
<joepie91> oh, surprising
<joepie91> you got lucky, then :P
<samueldr> (when I checked WOW air, it basically amounted to adding a bunch of misc. prices and surtaxes to the price quoted, with a long layover :/, totalling more than the Air Canada flight)
<joepie91> if that's the case, you've likely picked an unexpectedly unpopular date (span)
<samueldr> (oh, and only once a week IIRC)
<joepie91> not sure if this is universal but a lot of transport companies (airlines and otherwise) adjust their ticket prices by whether they're selling tickets according to their projection
<joepie91> so if tickets are selling slower than expected for a particular flight/trip, they go down in price to get things back on track,e tc.
<joepie91> etc *
<sphalerite> vaguely related: I recently flew in a plane that still had airberlin livery. rip
<samueldr> -> and ceased operations on 27 October 2017
<samueldr> (for those that didn't know, like me)
<joepie91> also, re: wowair, they have ridiculously cheap tickets and more leg room than most budget airlines... but they operate only a few planes that are flying almost constantly so delays tend to ripple -> delays are likely
<joepie91> so keep that in mind :P
<joepie91> still a good deal if you can travel light though
<samueldr> oh, another bit that added to the WOW air cost: travel ~300km to another city, instead of departing from my home city
<joepie91> yeah, it's less great if you don't live nearby a major airport :P
<samueldr> in this case it's not so much a major airport, but the lucky draw of the one airport serviced in this large country :)
<samueldr> oh, two, but the other is farther
<sphalerite> gchristensen: that's interesting music!
<gchristensen> yeah Shostakovich has interesting music in general, very animated I think
<joepie91> right, so WOW Air is currently flying 25 planes: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/WOW-air for 38 locations: https://wowair.us/flights/our-destinations/
<joepie91> which is a bit ridiculous :P
<infinisil> (unrelated: What's that simple Nix-like configuration language with types called again?)
<sphalerite> dhall
<infinisil> AH thank
<joepie91> also, I counter with other interesting music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkfUnHgSMW4
<joepie91> somehow merged music with poetry, it's quite interesting
<infinisil> I might just use Dhall to do configuration for Haskell programs
<gchristensen> dhall is pretty neat
<srhb> infinisil++ can recommend.
<srhb> infinisil: It's a really nice experience.
<infinisil> The only thing I'd need in addition to that is a way to turn a NixOS module into a dhall type
<infinisil> Because one of the things I need a config for is a running service I'd like to use NixOS for with some stuff
<infinisil> Oh I can just toJSON it
<infinisil> Well not the type
<sphalerite> my contribution to the "interesting music" discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XziuEdpVUe0
<gchristensen> who owns nixos.community?
<samueldr> wasn't it REDACTED FOR PRIVACY?
<sphalerite> maybe Mic92? just a guess
<joepie91> talk recommendation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t99L3JHhLc0
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<manveru> infinisil: man, i tried so hard to get something done in dhall :|
<infinisil> manveru: Where was the problem?
<manveru> tried doing the kubernetes dhall config for example, takes about a minute to eval
<infinisil> Huh
<{^_^}> dhall-lang/dhall-haskell#580 (by f-f, 1 week ago, open): Performance issues with many deeply nested imports
<manveru> that's pretty similar, just that my internet is way slower
<manveru> also you can do stuff like `foo."${bar}" = {}`, making it unsuitable to write terraform configs too
<{^_^}> dhall-lang/dhall-lang#135 (by blast-hardcheese, 21 weeks ago, open): Variable record keys
<manveru> plus there's no irc channel and gabriel doesn't seem to hang out in nix channels :|
<manveru> anw, it's probably fine for simple stuff, but i simply rewrote my two config generators in nix instead...
<infinisil> Hmm I see
<infinisil> manveru: I like the typechecking of it
<manveru> so yeah, dhall is cool in theory, and probably ok if you're doing haskell anyway
<infinisil> But I can also do a type check with a NixOS module (and I've done that before)
<manveru> yeah, i use kubenix now, they did all the work for me :)
<manveru> gonna make a nice shared repo for our company so they can deploy their stuff with a few lines of nix instead of hundreds of lines of ERB-interpolated YAML :P
<infinisil> Nix sure does make for a very nice config language
<sphalerite> it's almost like it was designed for it! :D
<gchristensen> joepie91: that is a cool talk
<infinisil> Lol yes
<infinisil> But if dhall fixes those problems it would probably be better than Nix tbh
<manveru> dhall is pretty close, but it'll never include a build system :P
<infinisil> Good point
<sphalerite> joepie91: +1 on cool talk (so far) although the buzzy audio is bothering me xP
<joepie91> sphalerite: yeah, the rustconf talks have super bad audio
<joepie91> and well
<joepie91> super bad mixing in general
<joepie91> at least this year they realized that you should keep the camera still...
<sphalerite> we're lucky to have goibhniu for nixcon :D
<joepie91> (I suspect it's actually the company they hire, confreaks, at fault)
<joepie91> sphalerite: frankly my experiences with community-driven talk recordings have almost universally been better than those with commercially-operated conference recording companies
<infinisil> manveru: Oh, I just noticed, dhall doesn't have a type for arbitrary maps at all
<infinisil> I think one needs to use [(key, value)] instead, which isn't very ergonomic to type
<sphalerite> and allows duplicates
<manveru> yeah, but there's also no real way to look them up easily
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<infinisil> Hmm darn
<infinisil> I need that
<manveru> and if your config requires to have {key = value} you'll need a wrapper binary to convert it based on convention
* infinisil is slowly leaning towards a simple toml config
<gchristensen> I usually use nix and write out json
<infinisil> I might just go for a Nix(OS) module I guess
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<infinisil> To do the type checking, then output as json and read that from the program
<sphalerite> pet peeve: people calling "*" an asterix.
<samueldr> sphalerite: here's my obelix for you †
<sphalerite> huh?
<samueldr> the dagger, in typography, is also sometimes called an obelisk
<samueldr> -> Le personnage de bande dessinée Obélix devrait son nom à l'obèle2 (ou à l'obélisque suivant les sources3), tout comme son compagnon Astérix doit le sien à l'astérisque.
<sphalerite> huh, never heard of that name for it
<sphalerite> I wonder what the etymology of it is as well. I mean, asterisk is from star, but obelisk...
<sphalerite> to wiktionary!
* samueldr will not follow down the rabbit hole
<sphalerite> ah, obelos = needle
<sphalerite> that makes sense
<simpson> joepie91: Happens.
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<gchristensen> anyone mind reading a commit message for me and tell me if I'm making the message it over-complicated / not explaining thoroughly / am full of crap?
<LnL> sure :)
<gchristensen> PM'd :)
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