gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<sphalerite> wtf is up with the naming of the "--binary-files=without-match" option for grep
<sphalerite> why isn't it --binary-files=skip or something
<srhb> Gaah. I've acquired some sort of shell bug where suddenly, ctrl+c stops working unless I type it twice, and I've no idea when it happened, and it's not easily triggerable so it's hard to bisect my config. *infuriating*
<sphalerite> srhb: but it is consistent?
<srhb> sphalerite: Once it it triggers, it appears to persist forever in the shell, I have to close it and open a new one to get rid of it.
<srhb> I might just have to redo my entire zsh. x_x
<sphalerite> does stty sane affect it at all?
<srhb> sphalerite: Nope, but good call to test that..
<sphalerite> reset?
<srhb> sphalerite: Nope :/
<sphalerite> if not I guess it's some zsh setting
<srhb> Hmm.
<sphalerite> what I don't like about zsh is how horrendously complex it is
<sphalerite> it's like, well, you took bash, and you bolted on 10× the features
<srhb> Agreed
<srhb> In many ways I want to go back to bash, but it's hard.
<sphalerite> I'm using zsh on my main laptop and bash on pretty much everything else
<sphalerite> in the end, bash does seem to be Good Enough™
<sphalerite> I tried fish briefly as well, but not being able to use git reset @{u} without escaping irritated me to an unreasonable degree :p
<srhb> Yeah, it's just a few things that I can't easily implement in bash.. But mostly habits.
<sphalerite> like what?
<sphalerite> Also, I have a broken (screen is mostly dead) nexus 4 phone which I'm looking to get rid of. Any idea if any place I can get it to easily might still appreciate it, or should I just throw it away…
<srhb> Honestly right now I can't recall exactly which features I'll miss, but it's probably related to extended globbing support
<jD91mZM2> But... zsh is good :(
<jD91mZM2> Well, it has a lot of good plugins*
<sphalerite> but at what cost?
<jD91mZM2> No idea, never had any problems personally
* etu runs fish:)
<jD91mZM2> I used to use fish, but I never liked the non-compatibility with bash. Always caused issues when sourcing ~/.profile etc
<qyliss^work> I always found fish to have weird display glitches, like commands overwriting the prompt and stuff
<qyliss^work> I saw a friend using fish the other day and noticed that it looks like those still happen :(
<emily> anyone tried elvish?
<jD91mZM2> ooo built-in file manager
<etu> jD91mZM2: Well, that's kinda part of the point :p
<etu> qyliss^work: Display glitches? I've used it for 10 years and don't know what you're on about.
<qyliss^work> You've never, eg, had the cursor misaligned when writing a command that wrapped?
<etu> Uh, no? I don't think so? I have a monospace font, how would it misalign?
<qyliss^work> The cursor ends up on a different character to where text is inserted
<qyliss^work> Or the prompt and the command being typed get mixed up and the command writes over the top of the prompt
<qyliss^work> I just opened it in a Nix shell and it does seem better now
<qyliss^work> I can't get it to do something wrong within a couple of minutes of testing
<jD91mZM2> etu: I know, but it does complicate things if you want a bash plugin or so
<etu> qyliss^work: Well, there was *a load* of bugs in 1.23 that I used for like 4 years before 2.0 got forked and then released. But since 2012 it's been stable for me :)
<etu> or 1.22.3 or whatever the version was
<qyliss^work> hmm okay
<qyliss^work> I wouldn't be surprised if the version I saw running the other day was super old
<etu> jD91mZM2: Does it really? I mean, you can still run stuff in other shells as commands
<etu> It was abandoned for like 6 years :p
<jD91mZM2> etu: But what if you really want to `source ~/.profile`
<etu> jD91mZM2: Well, .profile isn't used by fish so you don't want that. If you want to achive something that `source ~/.profile` would in a sh-compatible shell you have to do it "the fish way"
<etu> You say that you want to parse a file with your shell. But not why. And why is quite a good question
<jD91mZM2> etu: I mean basically just sourcing environment variables. I believe I used to use something called "bass" that ran the thing in bash and then copied all the environment variables back
<etu> It's aimed to be very different, and that requires that you resolve things in a different way
<jD91mZM2> Why? Because if I change .profile I need to either relog or `source` it
<etu> jD91mZM2: I mostly use direnv for environment-variables that is per project or etc. Works in bash, zsh and fish. With the same config :)
<etu> jD91mZM2: Also, a relog wouldn't help in fish if you changed your ~/.profile since fish doesn't read it anyways.
<jD91mZM2> It's read by the X server when you log in, well, apart from in Nix for whatever reason
<jD91mZM2> s/X server/display manager
<jD91mZM2> I mean global stuff like `export RUST_BACKTRACE=1`
<etu> that works in fish
<etu> (export)
<qyliss^work> I use Nix for environment variables :P
<etu> At work we use chef, and that requires an env-variable to specify my username for shef
<etu> chef*
<etu> So when I enter the directory with the chef-stuff, direnv sets the env-variable for me :)
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<jD91mZM2> etu: Yes, but if you have anything more complicated, like export RUST_SRC="$(rustc --print-source-path --this-param-doesnt-exist)"
<jD91mZM2> qyliss^work: Nix only allows setting system-wide variables. I guess home-manager works though
<qyliss^work> It allows setting whatever you want if you generate all your shell profile files with it :P
<jD91mZM2> True, but then you have your variables set on shell init and not in ~/.profile, or you have the exact same problem as originally
<etu> jD91mZM2: Stop expecting that another language that states that it has another syntax will follow bash syntax. You have the wrong expectations :p, and in that case it would be simple enough like this: export RUST_SRC=(rustc --print-source-path --this-param-doesnt-exist)
<sphalerite> jD91mZM2: what's wrong with pam_env for setting variables for graphical sessions?
<jD91mZM2> sphalerite: I guess nothing, and maybe that's my problem. I'm just used to .profile being written everywhere online
<sphalerite> joepie91: I could really use some of that velcro tape you found the other day right now :D
<jD91mZM2> etu: Sure, but it's convenient to have the shell follow the same syntax as the thingy that gets sourced on every display manager startup, so I can source it without relogging
<jD91mZM2> So if I'm going to use ~/.profile for environment variables, it'd be great if my shell supported reloading it to make sure it works. However, since there seem to be a few alternatives to ~/.profile maybe that's where I'm wrong
<etu> jD91mZM2: Yeah, maybe. Since I have used fish for 10 years I don't see the need really. But opinions differs, and if that's important for you - fish doesn't fit your needs :)
<jD91mZM2> It wasn't really that important, it was just one of the few things that bugged me. Another thing that bugged me was that I don't think there were any bitshift operators in the language, but since then I've started using another calculator instead of `bc` so now I can just use that for bitshifting too instead of the shell
<sphalerite> in fish?
<jD91mZM2> Yep
<jD91mZM2> In bash you can `echo "$((1 << 31))"`
<jD91mZM2> Don't think fish had something like that built-in
<etu> jD91mZM2: fish tend to depend on bc for math operations
<etu> They also have some syntax I don't like sometimes, "^" can be used instead of "2>", but that's optional and not forced
<jasongrossman> I've been using fish for ages and I have absolutely no problems with it except for its non-standardness. I'm thinking of switching to bash, but largely that's just my dilettantism.
<etu> jasongrossman: I would miss the autosuggestions too much, as well as the history searching is very nice. Maybe it's possible to achive with zsh.
<qyliss^work> I have both of those in ZSH
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<joepie91> sphalerite: what broke? :P
<sphalerite> joepie91: nothing, just packing up a bunch of cables for my upcoming move
<joepie91> ahh
<joepie91> yeah, it's great for that
<joepie91> sphalerite: whereabouts are you? geographically
* joepie91 wonders if there's an Action nearby
<gchristensen> the various nix auto-indenting bugs are driving me bonkers :( I might switch to Vim justfor that
<andi-> it drives me bonkers often enough :/
<andi-> at least in the default configuration.. with that nix plugin from the one vim plugin I use it is okayish
<etu> gchristensen: *someone* needs to fix that in the emacs mode :(
<gchristensen> maybe we could bug-bounty it somehow
<sphalerite> joepie91: Glasgow
<joepie91> sphalerite: ah, then you won't have an Action nearby :P and I doubt the various pound shops carry it
<sphalerite> gchristensen: andi-: wasn't it fixed recently? Or was that something else?
<sphalerite> joepie91: :p I'm sure I'll manage without as well
<joepie91> sphalerite: having done cable packaging with and without velcro, the difference is significant enough to go out to a shop though :P
<gchristensen> sphalerite: "fixed"? improved, sure
<sphalerite> gchristensen: oh but not actually fixed? aww
<sphalerite> joepie91: fair enough. I don't have *that* many cables though, so eh
<joepie91> ah :P
<joepie91> I have a few boxes....
<sphalerite> I have ~1 shoebox worth
<joepie91> pfft, lightweight!
<sphalerite> well actually a shoebox and a carrier bag worth, but I'm giving the carrier bag away to people who are more likely to actually use them (they're audio cables, and I'm selling my mixer because I barely ever used it)
<samueldr> In the past I bought a "large" (not that large) reel of hook and loop tape, 20mm x 10m, by cutting them in the right pattern, I can fashion my own cable ties, with the required length
<sphalerite> hook and loop? is that the generic word for velcro?
<samueldr> yeah velcro is a specific brand
<joepie91> fwiw, the one I got from Action is what's described in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook-and-loop_fastener as 'Dual Lock'
<joepie91> so... I guess it's not even a Velcro clone?
<joepie91> but rather a 3M thingem clone
<joepie91> lol
<sphalerite> hm nixcon doesn't have a public participants list this year does it?
<samueldr> not working :D
<LnL> oh that reminds me, I didn't check the venue before booking my hotel
<samueldr> that could be... entertaining :)
<LnL> phew, looks fine
<joepie91> if you want to see the absolute worst in website performance... try loading https://www.wix.com/explore/websites and scrolling
<LnL> I don't understand it's a blank page, ... oh! :p
<samueldr> well, those three letters W I and X tells me it won't be fun, even by not clicking :)
<joepie91> this brought to you by me trying to explain elsewhere how Wix sites are immediately recognizable just from their loading time and pattern
<LnL> gchristensen: didn't somebody make some improvements recently?
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<manveru> isn't there any channel for dhall?
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<infinisil> Oh my god, are you serious digitalocean
<infinisil> I can't type a big W in the online console, due to whatever keyboard translation things
<infinisil> And I have a big W in my root password..
<infinisil> Well not sure if it's their fault, probably not
<manveru> `dhall-to-yaml --omitNull < deploy.dhall 11.77s user 0.10s system 17% cpu 1:06.90 total` that's like ... not great
<manveru> seems like it downloads half of github for every import and has no caching
<andi-> infinisil: vimium? :)
<andi-> I often run into issues with those systems and vimium..
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<infinisil> andi-: Not in my case unfortunately
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<infinisil> Well, I just made a new server now
<infinisil> Loading all backups and restoring everything..
<joepie91> [17:49] <infinisil> And I have a big W in my root password..
<joepie91> minus 4% entropy!
<joepie91> :P
<infinisil> Heh yeah
<infinisil> I seriously just lost a server because my password contained a "W"..
<infinisil> Because special symbols and numbers have been a problem too in the past, my new password only contains lowercase letters..
<infinisil> I hate myself for never having tested the web console with this password
<joepie91> infinisil: message support
<infinisil> Have already
<joepie91> ah, alright :)
<samueldr> infinisil: in the past I had to switch my local keyboard to qwerty US to make a remote console thingy work with symbols, as they did key codes to scan codes mapping :/
<samueldr> so e.g. my server was setup with `ca` keyboard, my local keyboard too, to `ca`, but the mapping was made using the keys, translated to their qwerty US locations, and sent that way along the wire
<infinisil> Yeah, am doing that too
<samueldr> don't think it would help for capitalization though :/
<infinisil> Well I guess it's a learning experience
<infinisil> I should always test recovery mechanisms *before* I need it
<samueldr> OH, it's the machine with the bot's code?
<samueldr> well, running service?
<sphalerite> aaaah that explains things :p
<sphalerite> what did you do to it?
<infinisil> samueldr: Yup
<infinisil> sphalerite: The root of the problems seem to have been that the disk was 100% full
<infinisil> Resizing didn't help for some reason though, and I couldn't inspect the problem further because i rebooted, but a lot of commands didn't work
<infinisil> There also was a problem with the zfs kernel version being different than the CLI one, because of a recent update
<infinisil> And then there also was the problem of my local internet not properly working
<infinisil> A whole series of unfortunate events
<sphalerite> oh fun
<jasongrossman> etu: I rely very much on fish's autosuggestions and history searching (especially the latter), but can bash really not do anything similar?
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<infinisil> ,
<{^_^}> Special commands: find locate tell - Commands sorted by use count, page 0 (use `,<n>` to view page <n>): tofu -A IFD NUR allah dnw nixcon pinning profiling unstable whomademe arm ask bootfull callPackage channels cloudfront context declarative error escape" escape'' escape-special fancy-uninstall github hardware haskell help home-manager howoldis imperative library logs nix-env-r nix-info nix-repl nixGL nixeval nixlang++ nixpkgsVersion not-os notfou
<elvishjerricco> jasongrossman: Bash has history searching built in with ctrl+r, but it's not fuzzy searching, just substring searching
<elvishjerricco> It also has pretty tab completion but not auto suggestions
<infinisil> Next problem I'm having: I started the new server (new ip) with the name server pointing to the new ip, but it's not propagated yet
<infinisil> In addition, I can't restart these autorenewals, because I have >5 subdomains, and there's rate-limiting above that number
<infinisil> ...
<samueldr> yeah, the LE rate limit can sting in some situations :/
<samueldr> where LE = Let's Encrypt
<sphalerite> infinisil: smaller TTL next time?
<infinisil> sphalerite: Many ISP's don't care about TTLs
<infinisil> and keep the records for minimum of 48h in any case
<sphalerite> does that matter for LE?
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<gchristensen> "many" needs a citation :)
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<samueldr> isn't that internet folklore?
<gchristensen> I think so
<gchristensen> so many sites require low TTLs to operate now
<samueldr> from my experience, many registrars, on their own nameserver sites, will parrot the "up to 48 hours", I'm guessing it's more of a "don't call us until it's been a while"
<infinisil> I'm pretty sure I experienced at least a day long delay at some point
<infinisil> Well actually, not so sure
<gchristensen> if your DNS root TTL is high, it'll be high. or if you change your nameserver records, it'll be high
<infinisil> Yeah that might have been it
<gchristensen> one time I added an extra 0 to the TTL and was in a world of pain
<infinisil> gchristensen: How long are we talking?
<gchristensen> I think I accidentally made it 10 weeks
<infinisil> Oof
<jasongrossman> elvishjerricco: I believe bash can be given good history searching with fzf, but the fzf web site has the worst documentation in the universe so I'm not sure.
<elvishjerricco> jasongrossman: "Good" as in better than substring matching? Like fuzzy matching?
<elvishjerricco> Fuzzy matching is something I really miss from vscode in emacs...
<jasongrossman> elvishjerricco: Fuzzy matching, yes. If you can find instructions anywhere I'll be delighted. I can't work out how to use it at all.
<infinisil> Oh actually, the certificate thing isn't much of a problem, because I was able to just load the certs from the backup
<elvishjerricco> Ugh. Airplane internet isn't stable enough to keep an SSH session open
<gchristensen> I don't pay for it anymore, it never is as good as I eed
<infinisil> ARE YOU SERIOUS
<infinisil> My laptops SSD seems to be broken
<infinisil> Right now
<infinisil> Or at least the ZFS part of it, I can't import the pool anymore
<infinisil> Is somebody just screwing with me today or what
<samueldr> :(
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<gchristensen> for some reason my Zelda BOTW has started non-stop giving me new side-quests without me doing anything, all at once
<sphalerite> elvishjerricco: go team mosh!
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: mosh?
<sphalerite> elvishjerricco: a thing that uses SSH to establish a UDP connection which can roam and do local echo for much improved usability even on flaky connections
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: Checking out the homepage. Seems neat
<sphalerite> programs.mosh.enable = true; on the server, install mosh on the client, mosh user@host
<samueldr> gchristensen: the DLC update?
<samueldr> EX quests
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: Thanks, ill give it a go. What happens if you totally lose internet for a while? Does it eventually let quit?
<sphalerite> it tries to reconnect until you stop it
<sphalerite> (it also tells you at the top of the screen if it loses contact, including how to make it give up)
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<gchristensen> samueldr: yeah, is this normal?
<samueldr> yes, they all come from the second DLC update :/
<gchristensen> it was really weird few minutes
<samueldr> I found it odd and jarring, compared to how everything non-DLC is integrated seamlessly in the world
<samueldr> (though you're a couple months late :))
<gchristensen> I'm a slow gamer :)
<samueldr> eh, I am too, teasing you; while I did play the night of the release, I did not progress much further since :)
<gchristensen> I play about 5min at a time during builds.
<gchristensen> whenever possible, it'd probably be good to replace for i in find... wiht find | xargs -P$NIX_BUILD_CORES
<sphalerite> gchristensen: find -print0 and xargs -0 ;)
<gchristensen> yes yes but the important part is -P$NIX_BUILD_CORES :)
<sphalerite> or gnu parallel lol
<gchristensen> xargs is usually already in the closure, and doesn't require citations
<sphalerite> :p
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<gchristensen> I find it a lot more understandable, too. parallel reminds me of perl
<gchristensen> do I want parallel :? parallel ::? parallel :::? or parallel ::::? I don't remember
<sphalerite> I know, I was mostly joking because I haven't even got close to understanding parallel
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: Wait, if mosh doesn't kill itself eventually when the connection is totally lost, won't there be zombie mosh-servers on the server?
<sphalerite> elvishjerricco: yes. I usually attach to tmux within mosh so that I can still access the session even if the client shuts down or whatever
<sphalerite> idk if there's a way to "pick up" a previous mosh session. I've never needed to
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: But you kinda have to go around killing mosh servers sometimes?
<sphalerite> not really, you can also just leave them be?
<{^_^}> mobile-shell/mosh#12 (by keithw, 6 years ago, open): Reconnection and garbage collection