<Shados>
rycee[m]: iftop is a great tool, but it doesn't provide a summary of totals at end of run, which is the thing I'm mainly looking for. Attempting to extract the information while it is running would be about as complex as just writing my own tool to do this directly.
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<rycee[m]>
True, might be easiest to just grab the data from /proc or grep it from ifconfig.
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<philipp[m]>
Is there a way to also fetch submodules when fetching from github?
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<ndowens08>
like cloning?
<ndowens08>
i believe i know how to with cloning, but not fetch
<ndowens08>
git clone --recursive
<philipp[m]>
I mean with fetchFromGitHub in a nixos-package (that's not meant for the actual repo, just something quick and dirty for myself)
<ndowens08>
ah nvm :\
<LnL>
philipp[m]: fetchSubmodules = true; :)
<philipp[m]>
That only seems to work with fetchgit.
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<philipp[m]>
Because fetchFromGitHub actually just fetches a zipfile (?)
<erlandsona>
ndowens08: That's the command I used. 100%. I just couldn't remember off the top of my head.
<ndowens08>
by using nixos, you could name it nixos-unstable at the end
<ndowens08>
brb gonna try sway/wayland
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<erlandsona>
ndowens08: Does you're nixos-version output 17?
<gchristensen>
erlandsona: you would have to add the unstable nixos channel as root for nixos-rebuild to use it
<erlandsona>
gchristensen: I feel dumb. LOL. Thanks again! Probably gonna be recompiling the kernel again! Oh well.
<gchristensen>
aye ...
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<gchristensen>
erlandsona: why are you switching to unstable?
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<erlandsona>
gchristensen: elm v18, and maybe it'll fix the mapping of my internal laptop speakers so they work properly (fingers-crossed but not optimistic).
<erlandsona>
But I don't know, because Nix just makes stuff like that super easy. It's literally my dream OS. It gives me the answer to the age old frustration with Mac that is, """
<gchristensen>
cool, erlandsona
<gchristensen>
:)
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<erlandsona>
I shouldn't have upgraded to the latest OSX (Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion, Mountain Lion, Yosemite, Sierra, etc...), it's sucking up all my machine's resources! Dang, I wish I could just reboot into an old install... crap where's my install CD! Oh wait, it's the app store now! :(
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<erlandsona>
This has been the bane of my Audio Production existence ever since I started with Logic back in High School.
<erlandsona>
NixOS is literally making my dreams come true. (Insert compiler jokes here.)
<erlandsona>
But truly.
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<Drakonis>
the closest thing to bsds, just without bsds
<MichaelRaskin>
Just wait until it starts working on your nightmares
<MP2E>
hah :p
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<Drakonis>
compiliing your nightmares
<MichaelRaskin>
Drakonis: I guess Not-OS (Nix/NixPkgs/pieces-of-NixOS based) would be closer to BSDs, because no systemd?
<MP2E>
there's a fork of NixOS that removes systemd? :P I thought the systemd holy wars were over already
<MP2E>
hehe
<erlandsona>
I was thinking like the typical xkcd... "If only I could get it to compile."
<Drakonis>
the holy wars are not over yet
<Drakonis>
far from it actually
<MichaelRaskin>
MP2E: there is a fork of NixOS to be lightweight
<erlandsona>
MP2E I'm such a newb should I even ask about the holy war between systemd, and... what's the other one?
<MichaelRaskin>
It trims a lot of things, systemd is just among the things
<Drakonis>
nixos should get rid of systemd vOv
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<MP2E>
it's more systemd vs not systemd than any specific alternative
<MichaelRaskin>
I just run a NixPkgs-based no-real-init system
<Drakonis>
there are other alternatives
<Drakonis>
openrc is great
<MP2E>
I see. A more minimalist version
<Drakonis>
its mostly about lennart poettering being a twat
<NANDgate>
thanks just checking to see if it was worth attempting
<ndowens08>
yup, and if you want it to feel faster, use a window manager instead of a desktop manager
<ndowens08>
less memory usage
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<NANDgate>
I did see mention of arm support(experimental)
<NANDgate>
I've been using LXDE and XFCE
<NANDgate>
they feel pretty fast
<simpson>
NANDgate: I think pretty much any amd64 chipset should work. For 32-bit, i686 is the requirement IIRC, which means that it needs to have been made in the past what, 30 years?
<simpson>
Ah, I'm sorry, 1995. So only 22 years.
<ndowens08>
NANDgate: ah, well i personally use i3wm and awesomewm; gotten use to tiling managers
<ndowens08>
but i have used those b4 in the past
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<ndowens08>
seems like i have used a pc with only 1gb or 2gb of ram with linux
<NANDgate>
it's been awhile since I've used i3wm, and awesome looks... well awesome
<ndowens08>
4.0 is nice :)
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<NANDgate>
Good tips and good info. Thanks all!
<ndowens08>
np
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<srk>
uuh, seems like some symlinks are not preserved when in openvz. for some reason I don't have /run/current-system although it's in the image
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<srk>
wow!
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<srk>
had to run /nix/store/j96k6wi33fl50gf5yv0xwfdx8qq4xf4i-nixos-system-nixos-16.09.1763.51d4de9/activate
<copumpkin>
the activation script didn't run!
<srk>
and I can 'ls' now \o/
<srk>
:D
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<copumpkin>
yeah, things will be pretty weird if that doesn't run
<erlandsona>
anyone here know if google-chrome supports a cli flag to make it read keybindings similar to OSX? ctrl-shift everything on linux is really getting to my head.
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vDboF
<erlandsona>
Rather I just updated to NixOS 17 and Konsole is throwing a "I can't open because I need xcb"... which xcb package do I need? xcb-util, libxcb, or perlPackages.X11XCB?
<erlandsona>
I'm running Konsole from XMonad which is probably why I'm missing dependencies... Aren't Nix expressions supposed to quasi-eliminate missing dependency issues? Like shouldn't Nix expressions define all dependencies needed for a package to run / work?
<erlandsona>
Meh... whatever :)
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vDbKS
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 8f325ee Antoine Eiche: pythonPackages.robotframework-requests: init at 0.4.6
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 85fe839 Antoine Eiche: pythonPackages.robotframework: 2.8.7 -> 3.0.2
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc closed pull request #23017: pythonPackages.robotframwork: 2.8.7 -> 3.0.2, and init pythonPackages.robotframework-requests at 0.4.6 (master...robotframework) https://git.io/vDdxY
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<Drakonis>
how's hurd support for nix?
<Drakonis>
because it seems like it will be ready during my lifetime
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<srk>
I get a lot of these error during boot ++ /nix/store/60m1mvfdlya3s831ry1j5y5brh2qbi78-util-linux-2.28.1-bin/bin/mount -t tmpfs -o remount,nodev,strictatime,mode=755,size=25% tmpfs /run
<srk>
mount: /run not mounted or bad option
<srk>
it won't mount stuff during initial activate but it works when I run it from within container
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vDb6w
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master da33c8a Kevin Cox: systemd: Properly escape environment options....
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vDb6i
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master 2d78767 Paul Kinsky: Add tips for resolving https issues in containers...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master b14dd0e Paul Kinsky: wrap added notes in <note>
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] grahamc closed pull request #22183: Add tips for resolving https issues in containers (master...patch-1) https://git.io/vDe95
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<erlandsona>
Anyone here know why Konsole is borked? I updated to 17 and Konsole is reporting it needs This application failed to start because it could not find or load the Qt platform plugin "xcb"
<erlandsona>
in "".
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<srk>
so for the reference I've had to mount /run from openvz prior stage2, everything looks good now
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<copumpkin>
arggh
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<copumpkin>
debugging these installer tests is unpleasant
<Drakonis>
automate them
<Drakonis>
automate everything
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<copumpkin>
they are fully automated!
<copumpkin>
it's impressive how much they test :)
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<mguentner>
anyone here got a working qtcreator environment w/ a debug build of qt? qtcreator detects gcc, g++ and qmake correctly but says "Qt version is not properly installed, please rum make installed"
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<mguentner>
okay...this only affects Qt 5.5, 5.6 does work out of the box
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<hyper_ch>
hmmmm, when I try to do upgrad,e I get now: the option 'services.xserver.desktopManager.kde4' defined in con.nix does not exist
<mguentner>
the collective has decided that you need a new DE, hyper_ch
<hyper_ch>
why would I regert in the long way to run kde4?
<hyper_ch>
kde 5 is so flawed
<hyper_ch>
huge waste of space
<hyper_ch>
external monitor setup fucks up all the time
<hyper_ch>
can't even set custom locale
<mguentner>
hyper_ch: not because of kde4/5, just because maintaining such a huge package tree locally could mean a lot of work
<hyper_ch>
I have yet to see one benefit coming from it
<mguentner>
but on the other hand, reverting the few commits now is not that much work and you could track it in a branch locally
<mguentner>
go for it (I am not using kde anymore because of kde5)
<hyper_ch>
well, you maybe "can".... I "can't"
<hyper_ch>
what DE do you use now?
<mguentner>
i3
<hyper_ch>
why that one?
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<mguentner>
at some point I wanted a tiling WM and i3 seemed to be the easiest solution, also in terms of configuration
<hyper_ch>
what's a tiling wm?
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<mguentner>
hyper_ch: in kde/gnome all windows are floating (means they can overlap, you can drag them around) - a tiling window manager arranges the windows as tiles, covering the whole screen
<mguentner>
it encourages you to use workspaces instead of minimizing windows
<xeviox>
hi guys I know this is somehow unrelated to nixos but is it possible to set an environment variable when using a nix expression with nix-shell?
<xeviox>
(I want to set the folder where the nix expression is located as the GOPATH when I enter the nix-shell)
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<dmj`>
xevox: all attributes in a derivation become environment variables
<dmj`>
xeviox:
<xeviox>
dmj`: thanks :D
<dmj`>
np
<dmj`>
Ugh, can't wait until my nixos sticker comes in the mail
<xeviox>
dmj`: where did you order it?
<dmj`>
Sticker mule
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<xeviox>
have to order one, too :D
<xeviox>
can I get the path of the expression file (e. g. default.nix) within the expression?
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<gilligan_>
hi
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<georges-duperon>
I'm trying to use sandboxing (for a PR), via: nix-env -f $NIXPKGS --option nix.useSandbox true -iA crack_attack
<georges-duperon>
But it uses the already-built package. How can I force nix-env to rebuild the package even if it already has a built copy somewhere in the store?
<rmrfroot>
anyone know why the firejail binary does not have SUID set?
<gilligan_>
georges-duperon, change something in the default.nix of crack_attack? :-) dunno how else to do that tbh
<gilligan_>
I have a question about SSL_CERT. I have an impure derivation that needs to fetch something from https in the installPhase. Of course "the right thing" is to not have impure derivations in the first place. At this point I cannot avoid it. *Question*: Is my best/only option to just set SSL_CERT to SSL_CERT_FILE=/etc/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt ? The problem with that is that it will fail on non-nixos systems!
<georges-duperon>
gilligan_: tried that, but it seems more resilient than I expected, just adding a character to the description wasn't enough. I'll try with a more extensive change :) .
<georges-duperon>
gilligan_: Ah, changing the package's name was enough. Thanks!
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<gchristensen>
mguentner: :( hyper_ch: the way nix uses hashes to look up packages makes it extremely difficult to collect statistics, I don't think such an attempt has ever been made.
<icetan>
I'm trying to setup a hydra but with only moderate success, trying to lobby for nix as a good solution for our builds and CI
<LnL>
gilligan_: are you still using nix at work?
<michiel_l>
I wanted to do a quick check if I needed to update any packages for 17.03
<gilligan_>
LnL, yes
<gilligan_>
LnL, our ci is a nixops deployed machine
<gchristensen>
hyper_ch: also, I'm sorry I broke your use case. but the facts remain: KDE4 hasn't received any kind of patching for over 2 years now, with the exception of serious security patches to a very teeny tiny subset (kdelibs.) on top of that, kde4 itself has not seen proper maintainership in nixpkgs maybe ever. these are the reasons I've been pushing to remove kde4 for 17.03, despite knowing it would hurt some
<gchristensen>
people like yourself.
<icetan>
anyone tried the hydra-tutorial that peti made?
<gilligan_>
LnL, even though that might be changing in the future - might have to throw away my nixops setup and adjust everything to packer
<LnL>
I used it as a reference when setting up hydra on my desktop
<gchristensen>
gilligan_: you can you nix to produce AMIs :)
<icetan>
I can't get it running by following the readme, the closest I got was getting the web UI up but not being able to add inputs to jobsets for some reason
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<icetan>
LnL: did it work out of the box for you?
<LnL>
gilligan_: oh, I was wondering how that was going what's the reason?
<LnL>
icetan: yeah that's broken on master, sec
<hyper_ch>
gchristensen: kde4 is stable... why would there be patching needed if there aren't vulns known? since it's also already setup in nixos, doesn't look like maintainership is needed
<hyper_ch>
I fail to see the point to remove it while kde5 is not a full replacement
<gchristensen>
it is a discontinued product
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<icetan>
LnL: why is the tutorial pointing to master of hydra source btw? doesn't it defeat the purpose of determinism a bit?
<LnL>
yeah, since there are no releases for hydra it would be nice to keep track of a working version somewhere
<icetan>
LnL: thanks, that was exactly the issue I was looking for
<gilligan_>
LnL, well there is some existing infrastructure that uses packer and ubuntu base images
<gilligan_>
LnL, and currently it looks like I might have to adhere to that
<icetan>
LnL: which rev are you using?
<LnL>
icetan: to run on it 16.09 I also had to configure something in the services
<gilligan_>
gchristensen, ami does not help on GCE and it is sadly also about conforming to their base image config and not what. And just not being flexible in general
<gchristensen>
hyper_ch: at any rate, the other issues remain in that nobody has maintained it in nixos. that is all I have to say on that, though, if you'd like to step up maintainership and can provide evidence that kde4 and kdm are maintained (despite us thinking otherwise) we could revert in time for 17.03
<gchristensen>
gilligan_: gotcha :(
<hyper_ch>
gchristensen: does it have bugs or things that need to be maintained?
<hyper_ch>
I have no idea how to maintain that
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<LnL>
gilligan_: right, I'm in a similar situation. we have an internal distribution based on ubuntu with a whole bunch of infrastructure around it
<gilligan_>
LnL, so basically the new infrastructure is on GCE and to even just reach our github enterprise they have some network fiddling going on in their base images
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<gilligan_>
LnL, i'm still on aws but my server is pretty much the *only* one there
<LnL>
hyper_ch: 53b1f7da6408c4b6f39a71643009adc2d3bd3d6d + that a revert of that commit I linked
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<gchristensen>
LnL: I'd really rather not encourage that sort of recovery :(
<LnL>
well it's what I'm running at the moment :/
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<LnL>
but it looks like it was also reverted on master
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<gchristensen>
LnL: where did 53b1f7da6408c4b6f39a71643009adc2d3bd3d6d come from?
<icetan>
nixops at least with vbox is very shaky for me
<LnL>
oh, master should just work my revert disappeared when I rebased
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vDNne
<NixOS_GitHub>
nix/master 79f4583 Eelco Dolstra: Fix XML validity
<gchristensen>
LnL: oh are we talking about hydra?
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<icetan>
how do you add hydra to your configuration.nix?
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<jcbrand>
Hi folks, hoping someone can help me with the following issue. I upgraded from 16.03 to 16.09. I have a NixOS (systemd) container which runs xserver and I forwardX11 over ssh into that container so that I can run selenium webdriver tests. After the update, xserver no longer starts in my container. I get the error: xf86OpenConsole: Cannot open virtual console 7 (No such file or directory)
<FRidh>
hyper_ch: if you want kde4 so badly, then why don't you maintain it? It also doesn't have to be in the Nixpkgs tree.
<jcbrand>
looking in /dev/ of that container, there aren't any tty devices except /dev/tty
<hyper_ch>
FRidh: I have no idea how to maintain something like that
<LnL>
icetan: fetchFromGitHub and (import "${hydraSrc}/release.nix").build.x86_64-linux
<hyper_ch>
so in the end, it would just be asking other people again
<jcbrand>
I also see this in my system log: systemd-logind: logind integration requires -keeptty and -keeptty was not provided, disabling logind integration
<FRidh>
hyper_ch: you could also build kde4 from an older commit of Nixpkgs where it is still included, although I am not sure how well the service would work
<icetan>
LnL: great, so the rev that hydra/master is on right now should work with 16.09?
<gchristensen>
jcbrand: hmm can you paste the relevant bits of your config?
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<icetan>
LnL: aren't you running hydra as a service?
<jcbrand>
gchristensen: inside my container's .nix file:
<jcbrand>
xserver.enable = true;
<LnL>
icetan: for 16.09 you'll also need this, otherwise the evaluator won't work systemd.services.hydra-evaluator.path = [ hydra ];
<jcbrand>
xserver.layout = "us";
<jcbrand>
xserver.xkbOptions = "eurosign:e";
<gchristensen>
jcbrand: cany ou use a pastebin?
<gchristensen>
gist.github.com for example
<jcbrand>
yeah
<icetan>
LnL: so no more importing hydra-module.nix?
<icetan>
do i still configure hydra with services.hydra?
<LnL>
yeah, but you override services.hydra.package with the one from master
<goibhniu>
jcbrand: hrm, I don't know what syntax should be there ... I'd try doing a nixos-rebuild on a branch based on the one that was used for your current system (`nixos-version`) and removing the Device* options, or setting them directly
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* pierron
wonders why thunderbird pulls wayland
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<icetan>
LnL: neat
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<icetan>
I'm mostly trying to build my companies product to se if it's feasible
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<FRidh>
collision between `/nix/store/lywhskfdmsafs4lz2lkvmwan66xx2a0l-python3.5-html5lib-0.999999999/lib/python3.5/site-packages/html5lib/filters/whitespace.py' and `/nix/store/ip531qk15wrmcv9dwhg7qb240qjng4jj-python3.5-html5lib-0.9999999/lib/python3.5/site-packages/html5lib/filters/whitespace.py'
<FRidh>
i knew this was going to happen at some point...
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<gchristensen>
ugh
<LnL>
nice version numbers
<FRidh>
yep
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<FRidh>
thinking of patching bleach so it vendors the old version of html5lib
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<LnL>
FRidh: doesn't that older version have a security issue? or was that another .999... version
<copumpkin>
sphalerite: how does that affect you? the main place I know of that's annoying is nix-shell, but the new UI should improve that bit for end-users
<sphalerite>
Just in terms of how portable it is :)
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<copumpkin>
well, it very explicitly depends on the bash it wants, so it shouldn't matter too much
<sphalerite>
that's fair enough
<copumpkin>
oh, you mean the /bin/sh
<copumpkin>
yeah that's a PITA :)
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Zimmi48 opened pull request #23045: nixos/manual/xserver: propose more alternatives (master...patch-1) https://git.io/vDN2T
<jophish_>
I've been using zsh in nix-shell for ages without any problems
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Zimmi48 opened pull request #23046: nixos/manual/networkmanager: add info on nm-applet (master...patch-2) https://git.io/vDNVj
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to release-16.09: https://git.io/vDNwU
<niksnut>
ibrahims: for a user session or for systemd services?
<ibrahims>
i have a systemd service spawning docker containers
<ibrahims>
so, i guess it might be about docker container service. but i'm not sure.
<ibrahims>
i mean, the docker daemon might need more descriptors, not the service starting them.
<niksnut>
well, it probably inherits the limit from the service
<niksnut>
so try bumping serviceConfig.LimitNOFILE
<ibrahims>
but i don't have the docker service config, it's enabled with `virtualisation.docker.enable = true`
<copumpkin>
niksnut: I like your "Grrr" commit message :)
<copumpkin>
do the Nix RPMs and debs still use the nix store for Nix's own dependencies or somehow depend on host packages?
<copumpkin>
I see that the RPM build has a bunch of RPM-level dependencies and am curious how that works
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<niksnut>
it uses native dependencies
<jophish_>
Not been much chatter on the wiki issue for a while
<jophish_>
where did that end up
<qknight_>
lassulus: thanks
<copumpkin>
jophish_: if nobody gets to it before me (probably a few days more once I finish this NixOS image crap), I'm still going to plug GitHub OAuth into the current wiki config
<niksnut>
copumpkin: +1, only way to move this forward :-)
<copumpkin>
jophish_: once wiki is editable again, I'd like us to continue the existing "replace wiki" documentation efforts, but also keeping the wiki alive (if nothing else, to observe what sorts of things people put on it and maybe migrate them off if relevant, or leave them in place otherwise)
<copumpkin>
niksnut: how do the native dependencies work? do you patchelf to FHS paths? I can't find anything obvious doing that in release.nix
<copumpkin>
also, presumably the moment I upgrade Nix using Nix, it'll start using a full store-native version of everything
<jophish_>
copumpkin: That sounds like a very good plan
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<jophish_>
copumpkin: you said in the discussion that the PR based method was undesirable becuase it may exclude people for whom a PR is an unfamiliar concept. Doesn't using github for auth on the wiki exclude the same people. It's very possible I'm wrong on this: but how many github users are unfamiliar with PRs?
<sphalerite>
ibrahims: you can still set it
<gchristensen>
is there a way, native or via proxy service which already existts, to use a git repo as a channel, with `nix-channel --update` support?
<niksnut>
copumpkin: it just builds like any other native package
<jophish_>
I'm not trying to be snarky here! I'm interested in what you have to say :)
<gchristensen>
jophish_: I know about a dozen people who don't know how to use PRs but have github accounts
<copumpkin>
jophish_: I do agree, but we can add other OAuth methods easily (against gmail, whatever) going forward. I also don't think that was my only point :) there's also "cognitive overhead"
<copumpkin>
also, getting a github account takes a second
<niksnut>
Persona!
<copumpkin>
hah
<copumpkin>
if only
<gchristensen>
they have github accounts because they're involved with GH for project management work, but have no clue / care about prs or git
<jophish_>
gchristensen: gotcha
<jophish_>
copumpkin: makes sense. Other oauths sounds like a good idea
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] globin pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vDNod
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/master f1e6dc8 Robin Gloster: networking.defaultGateway{,6}: fix example
<copumpkin>
we need nixos.org SSO!
<copumpkin>
so my signin to hydra signs me into wiki too :P
<gchristensen>
we could use openid and simultaneously have an editable wiki but nobody able to edit it:)
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<copumpkin>
lol
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<sphalerite>
jophish_: 80% of the people on my course know git. of them, probably 80% have a github account, and probably 10% of them know what a PR is. (Just guesstimates of course)
<mbrock>
one of my future dreams is being able to use some kind of smart contract crowdfunding thingy to sponsor specialized hydras, like one that builds hella Haskell packages all day long with profiling and whatnot
<maurer>
Wait did we undeprecate the wiki?
<gchristensen>
maurer: "In progress"
<maurer>
OK. What was the reasoning in the end? Unwillingness of people to learn docbook, or?
<copumpkin>
maurer: long thread, but not that at all
<gchristensen>
not all documentation needs to be in The Manual I think sort of summarizes it
<jophish_>
sphalerite: oh right, I must move in different circles :)
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<sphalerite>
jophish_: and the first number should be 100%, as we were required to use git for a project last year :p
<domenkozar>
I really wish to meet these users that use nixos but are unable to make a PR
<domenkozar>
I feel like we're solving the 0.1% problem here ;)
<sphalerite>
That's true
<domenkozar>
you use one of the most obscure linux distros
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<domenkozar>
but are unable to click button on github, even if you managed to register
<domenkozar>
I'd *really* be interested to see statistical representation of such group.
<ikwildrpepper>
domenkozar: most obscure linux distro? :o
<sphalerite>
there may be people who set up nixos for their grandfather or whatever, in which case the grandfather would be a user who's unable to make a PR. But he probably equally wouldn't be able to make any useful contribution to the docs either :D and the grandchild probably would
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* ikwildrpepper
slaps domenkozar
<sphalerite>
ikwildrpepper: note "one of"
<ikwildrpepper>
(friendly slap, obviously)
<domenkozar>
ikwildrpepper: well it's true, nixos is probably still by far haredest to manage if not even install
<domenkozar>
I really think we're wasting time talking how incompetent user group we have instead of focusing of making docs better
<sphalerite>
really? I find myself suffering every time I have to ssh into my debian server since getting into nixos
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<maurer>
domenkozar: A PR is a different degree of mental overhead than a wiki edit
<maurer>
domenkozar: And I say this as someone who does issue PRs against nixpkgs
<domenkozar>
maurer: you click a Edit button on github
<domenkozar>
and save
<domenkozar>
and github makes a PR
<domenkozar>
just like for the wiki
<domenkozar>
it even forks for you!
<maurer>
domenkozar: There's two primary differences
<maurer>
1.) I don't know docbook, and am unlikely to learn
<domenkozar>
I'm not saying we should use docbook for wiki
<jophish_>
maurer: wiki has its own syntax though too
<domenkozar>
quite the contrary, I think we should use a PR
<mbrock>
I've been using Linux since 1953 and NixOS is both ridiculously hard and ridiculously simplifies my life
<gchristensen>
mbrock: tell me more!
<maurer>
domenkozar: 2.) When I edit a wiki, it's done, I walk away. When I issue a PR, I have something up in the air that I have to check in on occasionally
<domenkozar>
OK, I'm going to write last time to that issue, because it really ignites anger in me and it makes me unfriendly
<ikwildrpepper>
domenkozar: i think nixos is one of the easiest OS's to install
<domenkozar>
maurer: EXACTLY - I don't want documentation without reviews
<domenkozar>
otherwise we'll get poet songs as comments like I've been saying in my last job
<maurer>
domenkozar: Sure, but perhaps it makes sense to have both - an official set of documentation which is reviewed
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<ikwildrpepper>
but I agree you need some experience for the rest ;)
<maurer>
domenkozar: and an unofficial set which is "So, I just hit this problem, this is how I solved it"
<goibhniu>
maybe it's a good idea to have a process for reaching a decision and acting on it, it's hard to determine the outcome of a discussion thread
<domenkozar>
maurer: it's not that easy, most of wiki articles are first hit when googling
<Drakonis_>
mbrock, linux isn't that old :V
<domenkozar>
so if you have half-assed articles you're doing a poor job
<maurer>
domenkozar: This is because they were getting linked to since they were useful :P
<domenkozar>
and I don't think community should embrace that
* goibhniu
feels that a lot of people have put a lot of work into wiki/documentation alternatives which fell by the wayside
<copumpkin>
domenkozar: I'd be interested to see how you plan on measuring the group that doesn't interact with your systems :)
<mbrock>
gchristensen: I mean the process of learning to use NixOS involves basically reverse engineering the syntax and semantics of a lazy functional language with the help of outdated blog posts, and figuring out how to install and configure a package often involves grepping a 600M git repository, but then once you figure out your configuration it's easier and
<mbrock>
more reliable than anything else, and it's actually possible to understand the state of the system as something other than the result of a random sequence of sudo commands
<copumpkin>
I'd love to see such stats too, but I know of several such people in my immediate social circle
<domenkozar>
copumpkin: I'm curious how you do it :D
<copumpkin>
I don't, but I have anecdata!
<copumpkin>
:P
<Drakonis_>
make linux manuals better
<domenkozar>
I claim such group doesn't exist, more or less
<domenkozar>
so hard to prove that :D
<mbrock>
and the NixOS community is like one of few places where you can basically assume Haskell as background knowledge
<maurer>
I will say that the manual _has_ gotten better since the wiki got deprecated
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<domenkozar>
mbrock: lol
<Drakonis_>
it has to get much better though
<copumpkin>
domenkozar: I'm saying I don't know if it exists or not (not making a positive or negative claim), but I know several people who want the old wiki to work like a wiki again, so why stop them?
<mbrock>
admittedly as far as I remember making a Debian package was also quite a nightmare
<copumpkin>
well, I know it exists, but I don't know how big it is
<Drakonis_>
as it stands, the current manual gets more and more things added to it
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nix] edolstra pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vDNX2
<NixOS_GitHub>
nix/master 8b1b5f9 Eelco Dolstra: Handle CURLE_RECV_ERROR as a transient error...
<Drakonis_>
but not a full rewrite
<domenkozar>
copumpkin: because we've been doing on/off wiki for last 5 years and the result that we're in 2017 is exactly because of these ad-hoc decisions
<domenkozar>
"why not" was how we closed wiki :D
<gchristensen>
mbrock: I know no Haskell, but understand where you're coming from
<copumpkin>
anyway, assuming haskell knowledge is something I'd rather not do
<maurer>
domenkozar: So, one example of something that I think probably belongs in a wiki style article rather than a manual chapter is something along the lines of "Help, I've hit error ERROR_TEXT_HERE wat do?"
<copumpkin>
minimizing friction seems like a good thing; I realize we're niche but if we keep making decisions that assume we're niche is going to ensure that we stay niche
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<domenkozar>
maurer: fully agreed
<mbrock>
yeah, another side of all this is that the Nix language is a super cool gateway drug into lazy functional programming, because it really truly makes sense in a pragmatic context
<gchristensen>
domenkozar, copumpkin: I'm glad both of you care about our users so much :)
<lambdamu>
it should be mentioned that the wiki often appears at the top in google results, which is unfortunate since it often practically outdated and even formally deprecated
<domenkozar>
maurer: just for the record, I've started http://nix-cookbook.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ a while ago and I think all documentation changes should be review in such big community as ours
<copumpkin>
I also think there's plenty of google optimization to be done
<mbrock>
I mean, Nix expressions are mostly not obscure, just like good Haskell code can be very clear and easy despite using the "scary IO monad"
<Drakonis_>
it can be made better
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<domenkozar>
reviewed*
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<lambdamu>
the difference between a wiki edit and a pr is that the review is nonblocking in the former and blocking the latter case
<lambdamu>
i think you can have reviews in both cases
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<copumpkin>
niksnut, domenkozar: how about I reopen the wiki and then we introduce something a bit like Contributing.md in GitHub that tells people what sorts of things we'd like where. So a clear breakdown of what sorts of documentation we want where and how, but still allowing them to edit the wiki?
<domenkozar>
all reviews are blocking, that's the purpose of a review.
<copumpkin>
I mean on the mediawiki edit page
<domenkozar>
copumpkin: so the main disagreement we have is if reviews for documentation should be upfront or later in the process?
<sphalerite>
oh dear, my system just completely broke
<Drakonis_>
how did it
<copumpkin>
domenkozar: not even that I think; it's more that thanks to wikipedia, a huge swath of the internet (ranging from top programmer to people who have never heard of linux; obviously the latter half of that spectrum isn't going to be using NixOS, but I want to move farther along it than we are right now) knows that they can go fix a typo or that when they google something and they find something silly obviously wrong, they can go fix it. I
<copumpkin>
want to take advantage of their pre-existing instincts and then either harvest their contributions (if they're small typos, or documentation of something we haven't anticipated, or a new type of documentation we hadn't considered) or direct them to a more productive place for them to contribute
<Drakonis_>
have you rolled back
<sphalerite>
null pointer dereference in the kernel, apparently :(
<sphalerite>
in the graphics driver
<copumpkin>
sphalerite: types are for nerds haha
<gchristensen>
copumpkin: null pointer dereferences are the spice of life.
<lambdamu>
domenkozar: i don't want to argue about semantics here but i don't think that the change in question needs to be pending is a defining property of a review
<sphalerite>
copumpkin: we need nix-on-redoxos :D
<lambdamu>
it is desirable though
<copumpkin>
fwiw, phabricator supports both pre- and post- reviews
<gchristensen>
copumpkin: oh boy.
<gchristensen>
copumpkin dropped the p-word
<copumpkin>
I'm not a huge fan of it; just saying it does :)
* gchristensen
`git send-email`s all future patches to copumpkin
<copumpkin>
lol
<copumpkin>
for example, I think gerrit is a good tool
<copumpkin>
but I wouldn't advocate it for this project because it increases friction
<copumpkin>
and I prefer minimizing friction for projects that need contributors
<gchristensen>
oh the horror
<gchristensen>
I used to think gerrit was good / cool
<copumpkin>
it's also why I think GHC is doing it wrong ;) but it's their project
<gchristensen>
aye
<copumpkin>
although they recently started accepting PRs on github for small things
<maurer>
gerrit is something that I think is a great tool if you have a bunch of people for whom the project is their job
<maurer>
not so much otherwise
<gchristensen>
and like 500 git repos
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<copumpkin>
anyway, my point is just that the most technically optimal solution that ignores user inclinations won't produce optimal outocmes :P
<copumpkin>
domenkozar: on a much more important topic, did you see my latest PR? :)
<copumpkin>
not sure if you understand installer tests but I don't really know who does
<domenkozar>
copumpkin: I did see it incoming, I'll review shortly
<copumpkin>
thanks! interested both in a review on the direction it's going and ideally "here's how you fix your current bug", since I'm confused by it right now :)
<18VAALUVS>
[nixpkgs] joachifm pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/vDNyE
<18VAALUVS>
nixpkgs/master c5d211d Michael Alan Dorman: elpa-packages: 2017-02-20
<18VAALUVS>
nixpkgs/master 602fbdb Michael Alan Dorman: melpa-stable-packages: 2017-02-20...
<18VAALUVS>
nixpkgs/master e2487c2 Michael Alan Dorman: melpa-packages: 2017-02-20...
<simpson>
Kendos-Kenlen: Out of curiosity, what were you looking for in the manual and what keywords were you hoping to find nearby?
<Kendos-Kenlen>
Maybe it's just that I'm used to the Arch wiki but I like to have an install/upgrade page, another one dedicated to network, etc ...
<gchristensen>
niksnut: yeah but we've had 15,000 issues since then. Time to switch it up!
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<simpson>
Kendos-Kenlen: It indeed sounds like you want our manual to be laid out like another distro's manual. That's ultimately a losing proposition since NixOS is fundamentally different in its underlying structure.
<Kendos-Kenlen>
I was looking for the update system. I found it's separated in 2 or 3 differents parts. The I.4 and II.6.2 chapters
<simpson>
Kendos-Kenlen: If there's specific information in the manual that you wanted but were unable to find, then that's another issue entirely; we can *do* something about that.
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<Kendos-Kenlen>
I know that NixOS work differently (and sincerely, I really like that) but when I try to find infos in the manual, I find it a bit difficult. What I would have prefered is maybe a part "upgrading the system" with channel stuff and rebuild stuff, and another one "upgrading your profile".
<Kendos-Kenlen>
(Also it miss a note about allowUnfree)
<Drakonis_>
sincerely
<Drakonis_>
why is allowunfree not on by default
<Drakonis_>
are you shooting to be allowed into gnu?
<simpson>
Drakonis_: Sincerely, freedom is important for several reasons. For example, allowUnfree being off by default means that the contents of your store are generally redistributable.
<Kendos-Kenlen>
Drakonis_: personnally I think it's a good thing. You make the user remember that they are using unfree packages.
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<Kendos-Kenlen>
By the way, how am I supposed to delete a bad generation ? It doesn't boot
<Drakonis_>
hmm
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<Drakonis_>
collect garbage
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<Drakonis_>
nix-garbage-collect
<Drakonis_>
read the manual
<LnL>
you can remove a specific generation with nix-collect-garbage
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<copumpkin>
niksnut or others: do we have a good way of pre-injecting user-specific/application-specific files into a NixOS image today? I know we can add other store paths and we have etc to add things to /etc, but what if I want to add stuff to a user home folder or some application state folder in /var?
<sphalerite>
is it just me or is i3 broken in nixos-16.09?
<sphalerite>
as in the executable isn't an executable?
<gchristensen>
LnL: I let my darwin-configuration.nix go entirely to hell >.>
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<LnL>
what happend?
<LnL>
I hope that I didn't break somethign
<gchristensen>
it is super confusing and I don't remember why I made it the way I did. I've been trying to clean it up again / move entirely off my crappy version of your nice system.
* LnL
needs to setup some proper tests
<gchristensen>
you didn't break it, I did :)
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<sphalerite>
nvm the broken i3 was because of the kernel crash
<copumpkin>
niksnut: argh, the image building stuff is so fragmented :) iso9660 supports "contents" which lets me specify non-store paths for the ISO, but make-disk-image doesn't
* copumpkin
resolves to unify everything
* copumpkin
loves images
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<copumpkin>
I've also seen nearly the same code for images copied and pasted all over the place
<gchristensen>
copumpkin you're doing great work, thank you :)
<copumpkin>
<3
<copumpkin>
I think it'd be amazing if other distros are stuck with packer and running sequences of commands that take 10-15 minutes per build
<copumpkin>
and we can tweak a config and get another image in <1m
<gchristensen>
yes
<copumpkin>
my goal!
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<LnL>
that would be really nice :)
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<tlotze>
Hi, I'm rather new to Nix and I'm trying to install packages on top of another OS. Works fine, but one thing I wanted to get this way is cmus (an audio player) with opus capabilities. cmus installed fine but without using opus, and a glance at the nix expression told me that opus has been commented out for a long time because something didn't work in the past. Is this something to file an issue about, or is this kind of thing considered too much "maint
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<goibhniu>
hi tlotze, maybe it's easy to fix? That would be best
<hyper_ch>
what are security.wrappers or how do they work since setuidPrograms isn't supported anymore
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<hyper_ch>
lassulus: I still have no idea how to use that
<hyper_ch>
I had security.wrappers = [ "mount.cifs" "cdrecord" ];
<hyper_ch>
it was simple and straightfoward... no idea what I need now
<gchristensen>
copumpkin: oh my heart
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<lassulus>
hyper_ch: now you can do security.wrappers."mount.cifs".source = "${pkgs.cifs-utils}/bin/mount.cifs";
<hyper_ch>
that's way more complicated
<lassulus>
but its more powerful
<hyper_ch>
fail to see how
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<lassulus>
and I'm not here to discuss why I just want to help you
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<jophish_>
Does anyone run nixos without channels, just using a git checkout in /etc/?
<jophish_>
I find channels really confusing :|
<lassulus>
well it's more powerful because the old interface wasn't able to take another owner than root, couldn't set specific capabilties und you couldn't really specify a specific version for a setuided executeable
<copumpkin>
niksnut wants to get rid of them, fwiw :) I think channels should behave pretty much like git checkouts though
<FRidh>
jophish_: I don't use channels, but indeed a git checkout
<lassulus>
jophish_: I also don't use channels and pin a specific nixpkgs version
<jophish_>
good to hear :)
<lassulus>
sometimes my own nixpkgs branch to test changes before I push them upstream
<lassulus>
or to cherry-pick some changes from unstable to stable
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 1 new commit to staging: https://git.io/vDALm
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging cab0b44 Vladimír Čunát: python-3.4: fixup with glibc-2.25 (/cc #22874)...
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<gchristensen>
niksnut: do you know when NixOS was first released?
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<domenkozar>
15.09
<domenkozar>
afaik
<domenkozar>
for a stable release
<domenkozar>
gchristensen: or do you mean the very first usable version
<gchristensen>
how about a not stable release?
<gchristensen>
yeah
<copumpkin>
huh, I had 14.12 in a VM
<copumpkin>
and I vaguely remember a 13.x
<gchristensen>
like if we celebrated a birthday of NixOS, when would it be?
<aloiscochard>
that looks very useful, thanks all!
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] vcunat pushed 4 new commits to staging: https://git.io/vDA8g
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging cc8104f Vladimír Čunát: ekiga: mark as broken for now...
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging c986f4f Vladimír Čunát: fatrace: fixup build with glibc-2.25
<NixOS_GitHub>
nixpkgs/staging 9fe56e5 Vladimír Čunát: dolphinEmu*: fixup build with glibc-2.25
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<pikajude>
that doesn't work on darwin though :(
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<stepcut>
How would I create a `shell.nix` that has the same effect as `nix-shell -p package1 package2 package3` ?
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<maurer>
stepcut: make a derivation with buildInputs = [package1 package2 package3]
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<stepcut>
maurer: I'm not sure that is right. `nix-shell -p package1 package2 package3` will install all the dependencies required to build those packages, but not actually build the packages themselves. I think your suggestion would actually build the packages?
<maurer>
stepcut: nix-shell -A package1 does deps only
<maurer>
stepcut: nix-shell -p package1 installs the package
* stepcut
ponders what he actually wants
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<gchristensen>
stepcut: nix-shell -p installs those packages, not the build ependencies.
<stepcut>
yeah I realized now that maurer is correct. So.. my actually problem is that I have several `shell.nix` files that I generated using cabal2nix, and I want to create a shell.nix that merges those and drops me in a shell
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<srhb>
stepcut: I don't see how that would work, if you intend for buildPhase etc. to work for each of them
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<stepcut>
srhb: I'm not sure I want the build phases to work ?
<maurer>
It sounds like he's trying to make a dev env where he can work on multiple packages at once
<stepcut>
yes
<maurer>
I've always done this manually, which is why I've gotten quiet, I don't have an easy answer
<srhb>
Oh, I see.
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<srhb>
Actually, I don't see. Isn't that just exactly what you suggested, maurer? Make drv = mkDerivation ... buildDepends [ foo bar baz ] in drv.env ?
<maurer>
srhb: He is developing foo bar and baz
<srhb>
Right, derp.
<maurer>
He wants the dependencies for all of foo, bar, and baz present
<srhb>
:-)
<maurer>
but does not want foo, bar, or baz
<aloiscochard>
pikajude: I tried `rust-nightly-nix` but no luck, I would love to try to build rustNightly/rustNightlyBin, but I'm confused about how to start a shell/env with those derivation. maybe you would have a few pointers to share?
<srhb>
So could we traverse those dependencies for foo bar baz
<maurer>
stepcut: In any case, there might be a way, I've done this manually before, sorry
<aloiscochard>
pikajude: that must have been a typo earlier then, copy pasting it, just works now :) ty
<stepcut>
So, it seems there is no easy way, so perhaps I can use zipAttrsWithNames to merge together things like `buildInputs`. Except it seems that in the derivations `buildInputs` in an empty list and I need to merge `propogatedNativeBuildInputs` and other things -- but I am not clear where to find a list of what `other things` a derivation actually has :-/
<srhb>
stepcut: You would need all those inputs (but that's a fixed set, I think?) and merge those into new attributes of the same kind, I think
<srhb>
stepcut: so nativeBuildInputs, propagatedNativeBuildInputs, ...
<srhb>
I was attempting to fold them...
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<fendor>
Hello, i have a problem with installing nixos graphical install on my computer, has anyone the time to help me out?
<fendor>
i tried booting it from dvd and usb, in uefi mode and bios, i'm pretty sure that the system runs on uefi
<srhb>
fendor: Pose your question, perhaps someone can help.
<fendor>
ok, i guess hardware information will be relevant?
<srhb>
fendor: That would help. Anything you can think of. :)
<fendor>
ok, ill do that :)
<srhb>
simendsjo: nix-env -qaP -A nixpkgs.dotnetPackages has things. I don't know what those things are, but perhaps you can tell if you take a look. :)
<simendsjo>
Looks like it's mostly nuget packages
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<simendsjo>
I already have coreclr installed, but it doesn't seem to include the cli tools.
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<Wizek>
Can I configure nix to be less verbose when downloading from binary cache? E.g. 1 line isntead of 7 per downloaded items would be nice. Or perhaps just a progress bar?
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<srhb>
Wizek: nixUnstable already does this
<srhb>
So if you're patient... :-)
<gchristensen>
note: I don't recommend switching to nixUnstable at this time
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<srhb>
Me neither, it's wonky. :-P
<pikajude>
or at any time
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<srhb>
pikajude: Meaning you don't think it'll ever mature, or that attribute _name_ should never be used?
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<gchristensen>
you can't come back from nixUnstable right now
<pikajude>
srhb: well, if it matures, it just becomes nix
<pikajude>
but i've been bitten by too many bugs in nixUnstable to ever want to use it again
<srhb>
pikajude: Right, that was what I wanted clarified ;-)
<Wizek>
srhb, That's nice to hear that it is in the pipeline. Is there a ticket/commit I can follow perhaps to know when it lands in a more stable place?
<srhb>
Wizek: I think you can't miss it if you're here...
<Wizek>
srhb, You mean that if I watch this channel 24/7? :D
<srhb>
Wizek: The good thing about timezones and hobbyists is that the news will be ongoing for a long while. But to answer: No, I don't know the specific issue to track. :-P
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] shlevy pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vDAi3
<[0__0]>
clever said: "romildo: the command will be available, but not its headers or libraries"
<gchristensen>
his funny sleep schedule would turn me in to a wreck :P
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<mojjo>
hi! I'm starting to manage some of my dotfiles with nixos. I'm not completely sure how to do this. For instance, take xmonad as an example. I'd like to make sure that a certain .xmonad.hs file is always copied/linked? to a user's home directory.
<mojjo>
Would I just describe this in my configuration.nix or are there other ways to do so?
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<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] Profpatsch opened pull request #23055: garden-of-coloured-lights: init at 1.0.9 (master...garden) https://git.io/vDApq
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<lassulus>
mojjo: if you want to manage your dotfiles with nix the easiest way is either to write /etc files with environment.etc or write wrappers for the program which execute them with a specific configuration
<NixOS_GitHub>
[nixpkgs] ndowens opened pull request #23060: Hiawatha: Init at 10.5 (master...hiawatha) https://git.io/vDxm7
<lassulus>
depends on the program you want to manage though, I just wrote a systemd.user service to configure urxvt for example
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<threshold>
co ~/.nix-profile/share/postgresql.conf.sample ~/.nix-profile/share/postgresql.conf # results in cp: cannot create regular file 'postgresql.conf': Permission denied
<jack[m]1>
We are the knights who say !ni
<threshold>
cp, not co
<threshold>
I typed in cp, not co.
<lassulus>
threshold: context?
<threshold>
lassulus: I am trying to start postgres, and I am not sure where the configuration file should be located. Given that I found a sample configuration file in ~/.nix-profile/share/, I figured it should go there.
<lassulus>
on nixos? or using nix?
<threshold>
lassulus: nix
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<lassulus>
then the default location /etc/postgresql.conf should work
<threshold>
lassulus: /etc and not ~/.nix-profile/etc?
<lassulus>
do you want to run it as your user?
<lassulus>
or systemwide?
<threshold>
I am trying to mimick what will be in production. I guess it makes sense to put it in /etc
<clever>
gchristensen: lol
<gchristensen>
clever: :)
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<lassulus>
threshold: that would make sense I guess. Maybe there is a parameter to specify the config postgresql starts with
<lassulus>
but I can't find currently
<threshold>
-D
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<threshold>
I can't copy it to ~/.nix-profile/etc
<clever>
gchristensen: i sleep when you least expect it :P
<threshold>
permission denied
<threshold>
cp to /etc fails with the same error
<threshold>
Is there anything this user can do!? :)
<lassulus>
well you are not supposed to stuff in .nix-profile
<threshold>
oh
<lassulus>
and for /etc you need root rights
<clever>
threshold: ~/.nix-profile is entirely managed by nix-env, and you would need to make a package describing the change and nix-env -i it
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<threshold>
Given I am the main user of this laptop, does it make sense give myself write privs to /etc ?
<clever>
threshold: and i believe its using the PGDATA env variable to change where it looks for config files
<clever>
to get around certain locations being read-only
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<ndowens08>
So what is the purpose of wrapProgram? Wiki about it doesn't make it click for me
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<gchristensen>
ndowens08: sometimes we need to set environment variables before running the program, and the only way to do that is with wrapProgram
<gchristensen>
makes a transparent wrapper that sets environment vars
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<ndowens08>
every time i try to use fetchgit or fetchFromGitHub i get couldnt resolve host and idk why, no typo and is correct; funny thing is that prefetch-git works
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<ndowens08>
which is weird, the unable to access URL, is correct; not first time it has gave me this issue
<ndowens08>
It is weird, there is no typo, i can right click on the url and open link and pulls up fine in my browser; other downloads to build packages work, just never git
<ndowens08>
unless, git uses a diff port, since I have a firewall enabled in nix