samueldr changed the topic of #nixos-dev to: #nixos-dev NixOS Development (#nixos for questions) | NixOS 19.09 is released! https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixos-19-09-release/4306 | https://hydra.nixos.org/jobset/nixos/trunk-combined https://channels.nix.gsc.io/graph.html | https://r13y.com | 19.09 RMs: disasm, sphalerite | https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev
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<gchristensen> if for whatever reason you like monitoring hydra and don't feel like going to status.nixos.org, https://hydra.nixos.org/prometheus exists now
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<__red__> btw - anyone have a link / reference to a talk that happened at nixcon regarding networkd?
<__red__> there's supposedly a move for nixos to move that way and there was a reference in the discussion to go to that talk if you wanted to learn more
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<__red__> (distracted by another nixcon video :-) this time flakes)
<adisbladis> __red__: It was a lightning talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUG9aGYYCY8&t=7309s
<__red__> oh perfect - that's why I couldn't find it
<__red__> thank you
<__red__> Okay - watched it. I'll try and reserve judgement until I see the RFC, but he kinda scared me.
<__red__> probably just because it was a lightning talk and he was trying to cram into the time I'm guessing
<globin> __red__: what are the thigns you're worrying about, so we can consider those at the networkd sprint?
<__red__> My main concern is that systemd and networkd is primarily designed to work in dynamic environments. My server environments are all static.
<__red__> I'm nervous when adding a whole bunch of moving parts to my system to manage something that should never move, when a few ip / ifconfig and ip route is sufficient
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<__red__> My fundamental concern is that I haven't seen any explicit advantages that could offset the potential added complexity.
<gchristensen> the "scripted" networking doesn't correctly handling complex layouts, so my static configs with several vlans and bonds correctly comes up about 1/5th of the time
<__red__> also, I walked away from that talk feeling like I'd been described as a "problem"... I'm assuming good faith insomuch as it was just compressed time or I'm just too sensitive
<__red__> both are likely true
<__red__> gchristensen: why do they fail?
<gchristensen> dependency and ordering problems, I dunno, I don't really like looking in to it
<globin> __red__: we will definitely take server configs into accoutn, as we do our multi-site company routing including wireguard tunnels, bgp and vlans all on nixos and have had a number of problems with the scripted networking as it is near impossible to get the dependencies right
<__red__> See, now this makes a lot more sense
<gchristensen> the part where I don't like looking in to it?
<globin> we've fixed quite a number of things over time but it has never been perfect and networkd provides us with a possibility to declaratively configre interfaces etc. which fits far better than hacking around with iproute2
<gchristensen> yeah that is the other thing. hacking with the scripted bits don't correctly go from stateA to stateB if the transition is complicated
<__red__> No, that ordering that static configurations come up is something which is currently unmanaged and networkd provides that functionality
<globin> __red__: but if you have some special things we should look out for, please leave a comment on https://discourse.nixos.org/t/networkd-sprint-2019-11-23-24-in-munich/4578
<__red__> globin: just leave a networkd.enable option and we'll be fine :-)
<__red__> but I'll take a look
<__red__> I will confess up front, I wear my distain for systemd on my sleeve.
<globin> we do too
<__red__> but where it makes sense to use it I will absolutely support it
<__red__> my issue with it has always been that it's ended up in places where it made no sense
<__red__> but I'll do whatever I can to help us succeed
<__red__> I'd rather we make the right descision that me be right any day of the week.
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<globin> we also have quite some elaborate routing nixos tests built for our routing module which we'll definitely run it on
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