gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<samueldr> long~ish shot, but anyone with an unlocked oneplus3t can tell me on the TWRP for oneplus3t what `adb shell getprop ro.product.device` gives them?
<samueldr> oh, disregard
<samueldr> it's a unified build
<samueldr> but they still have an old useless device tree on their github that confused me
<samueldr> want to see something... somewhat giving of cursed vibes?
<samueldr> https://github.com/NixOS/mobile-nixos/pull/320 section "I see some shenanigans"
<{^_^}> mobile-nixos#320 (by samueldr, 1 minute ago, open): android: Add flashable zip output
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<fnlaai> Hi there1
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<srhb> Any syncoid users out there? I'm wondering what this error means: https://pastebin.com/tLg9eeMJ
<eyJhb> Anyone knows what this - https://de7ps54rd7sof.cloudfront.net/fileadmin/_processed_/d/1/csm_savsmuldstapet_f6cf2c4a5a.jpg is called in English? It's "savsmuldstapet" in Danish, ie. "Sawdust wallpaper", but that doesn't really yield much result
<eyJhb> ( srhb maybe you know?)
<srhb> No, and I just had that conversation with a brit last week :P We didn't find an english word.
<eyJhb> Just looking around for advice how to handle it properly while painting and fixing holes/fixing other peoples shitty ass polyfilla jobs....
<eyJhb> srhb: Damn... :(
<eyJhb> Maybe we are just psyho in Denmark, and the only ones that use it :p
<eyJhb> I guess the only way to fix such things, is by cutting a square out, and putting a new square in......................
<eyJhb> *and then repaint
<eyJhb> Also, why did you discuss that srhb ? :D
<srhb> My sister's new flat with her british boyfiend. :)
<joepie91> eyJhb: what do you mean with 'sawdust wallpaper' exactly?
<joepie91> the texture? the material it's made of? etc.
<eyJhb> joepie91: That is both
<eyJhb> It is both sawdust, and it is the texture it gives off joepie91
<joepie91> whu. I don't think that exists here lol
<eyJhb> Ahh! Reminds me, I also have a brit I can call upon with such questions srhb :D Cousins british boyfriend :D
<eyJhb> joepie91: It is also insane.. I can show you why it really sucks, and why I hate people that do half ass jobs fixing holes they have done in the wall. They just create small mountains...........
<joepie91> eyJhb: aha. "Rauhfaser"
<joepie91> this is it yeah?
<joepie91> "ingrain wallpaper"
<joepie91> https://www.klusidee.nl/Forum/topic/raufaser-behang-repareren.14184/ -- here's a thread in Dutch on how to fix holes in this shit
<eyJhb> AHA! Looks like it, thanks joepie91 !
<joepie91> machine translate should do wonders
<eyJhb> The issue is no holes as such, the issue is people who have fixed holes but don know how to :D
<eyJhb> So I need to fix fixed holes
<joepie91> rm existing holes
<joepie91> re-fix
<joepie91> errr
<joepie91> rm existing fix*
<joepie91> anyway, this translation brought to you by a detour through a third language lol
<eyJhb> Deutsch to English? Or did you have i intermediate step? :D
<joepie91> eyJhb: I went through Dutch (!= Deutsch, which is German)
<eyJhb> joepie91: ^ I don't think my excuse that I just got up will save me from this. Because who will believe I just got up.
<joepie91> lol
<eyJhb> Anyways, thanks joepie91 ! I will continue my search on how to fix stupid shit like this. But so far, I still guess my only option is to remove the part, and put new up... Which I am not getting into
<joepie91> eyJhb: it seems that semi-common advice for this type of wallpaper is "just remove all the wallpaper and start over", so :P
<eyJhb> Still enjoy the notion of "baby dutch" :D
<eyJhb> Yeah ... I guess that is how most would do it
<joepie91> baby dutch?
<eyJhb> As far as I understood, it is a version of dutch that was in South Africa, which is what lays ground for "Afrikaans"
<eyJhb> But I can't find anything online about it, it is just what I was told when I was in Cape Town.
<eyJhb> Also, joepie91 the room/apartment we just got, I think there is 10 meters to the celing. So no way we are removing all the wallpaper in there :D
<joepie91> 10 meters? what?
<joepie91> did you rent a church?
<V> ugh, I hate ingrain wallpaper. it's all rough and annoying to deal with
<adisbladis> Hm.. I should write a blog post...
<adisbladis> "propagatedBuildInputs considered harmful"
<eyJhb> joepie91: It is the worldst biggest sloping wall, or whatever you might call it
<supersandro2000> adisbladis: in specific cases. I don't want to explain people that they should use propagatedBuildInputs for python.
<adisbladis> supersandro2000: That's not my concern rn.. It's the inflation of closure sizes.
<adisbladis> Just as an example
<adisbladis> I've been trying to eliminate all -dev outputs from my system closure
<adisbladis> And a bunch of stuff that propagates pulls them in
<adisbladis> And there seems to be a general lack of awareness just how coarse grained propagating is
<adisbladis> It's literally propagating _all_ the outputs of the derivation
<adisbladis> So in this instance gtk being multi output is entirely useless
<supersandro2000> saw that
<supersandro2000> Did the same for my packages but I have a lot less packages
<adisbladis> I'm pretty livid about this stuff
<ashkitten> this conversation might be offtopic
<adisbladis> I'm on a connection with data caps + low bandwidth
<adisbladis> All the closure size inflations become _very_ apparent
<eyJhb> ashkitten: off-off-topic :D
<ashkitten> yes :p
<supersandro2000> You could be living in Germany. #neuland
<adisbladis> Wdym?
<supersandro2000> Internet in Germany sucks
<adisbladis> I'm in egypt rn
<adisbladis> It's worse
<eyJhb> So yes joepie91 , it is half a church! \s can I get some kind of award for the longest sloped/whatever-it-is-called wall
<eyJhb> adisbladis: What is your up/down?
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Depends on the day :P
<supersandro2000> I hope they do not try to tell you that it is enough
<eyJhb> adisbladis: + the constellation of stars I assume :D
<adisbladis> For the last week it's been about 10mbit both ways
<adisbladis> Before that it hovered between 20-30
<adisbladis> Now it's back up to ~25
<eyJhb> I will send you a speedtest from my new apartment adisbladis ! Sadly only 200/200. My GF wouldn't agree to paying 50 more for 1000/1000 :((((
<adisbladis> With ~10 up
<adisbladis> Tbh 1000 isn't such an upgrade over 200 for most things
<eyJhb> But, do people in this chat do what "most things" is?
<Ke> I'd rather love to have all build time inputs drawn into my system so that running gc never removed anything useful
<eyJhb> What if I want my /nix/store to be sateless! :D
<adisbladis> I've talked about this before.. But I'm really afraid that our current bandwidth requirements are basically excluding a majority of the world
<eyJhb> I meant, nuked on boot, ipfs, etc :D
<supersandro2000> if you move the countryside in Germany you get like 2mbit
<adisbladis> Ke: If it's an opt-in, sure, that would be great
<adisbladis> supersandro2000: That's what you get if you connect to any given wifi here
<eyJhb> adisbladis: I would love to see smaller closure sized
<eyJhb> sizes*
<ashkitten> one of my friends used to have 4/1mbit
<adisbladis> Like.. Using nix in most of africa, most of asia and the south pacific is _painful_
<Ke> especially on aarch64, where channels sometimes advance with most of the caches missing
<eyJhb> It annoys the living crap out of me, when I have to make these OCI Images (which I guess adisbladis have been hearing about for a week now)
<Ke> I guess only x86 build is required to advance the channel
<eyJhb> adisbladis: SA is annoying as hell, as you also pay-pr-gb many places.
<adisbladis> Yeah.. This is what I mean!
<adisbladis> We are basically excluding a majority of the world from participating
<adisbladis> Just by sheer cost of entry
<supersandro2000> we can solve that by outputs
<supersandro2000> or at least a little
<supersandro2000> other than that. We could split like Debian does
<adisbladis> Yeah, but we'd also need a more efficient distribution mechanism
<NinjaTrappeur> adisbladis no need to go that far. With my french countryside connection, any nix-shell powered project gives you a russian roulette grade experience.
<Ke> ipfs and content addressed stores
<NinjaTrappeur> That's a real issue. I had to setup a local hydra on my lan.
<adisbladis> Ke: Even that isn't quite good enough
<supersandro2000> IPFS and low bandwidth
<adisbladis> I think git tree hashing is a mistake
<eyJhb> IPFS would be cool! But wouldn't solve much..
<adisbladis> We need sub file level dedup
<eyJhb> Should this be moved into -dev at some point?
<adisbladis> Idk, I don't want to have an "official" discussion :P
<adisbladis> I just want to rant
<NinjaTrappeur> :D
<eyJhb> Well! I am all for that! I don't care in particular that we have these discussions in -chat
<joepie91> lol
<supersandro2000> moving channels is a discussion canceler
<eyJhb> And I guess it is not support related
<supersandro2000> its whatever. not like anything is decided here.
<eyJhb> joepie91: I think I meant to say, Nix discussions, etc.
<eyJhb> I just woke up, give me a break. :D
<joepie91> eyJhb: I think that was a mishighlight :P
<joepie91> anyway I frankly don't see how IPFS solves anything here, it's just a distribution mechanism, it still uses the same amount of bandwidth for the same amount of data
<supersandro2000> joepie91: or maybe more to keep the connection open
<supersandro2000> IPFS in idle isn't CPU friendly either
<adisbladis> joepie91: At least the current ipfs work is _partially_ solving that by using a different archive format
<adisbladis> (git trees)
<adisbladis> So you wouldn't have to redownload identical files
<joepie91> this is a general concept that exists outside of IPFS
<Ke> how much bandwidth is idle ipfs anyway?
<adisbladis> Yes, for sure
<adisbladis> But I think this is a mistake over other formats such as casync
<joepie91> and I don't think it's useful to have the conversations in terms of a specific technology stack whose defining features are poor specs and questionable reliability :/
<adisbladis> joepie91++
<{^_^}> joepie91's karma got increased to 21
<joepie91> not familiar with casync
<adisbladis> joepie91: The tldr of casync: Ignoring file boundaries and using a more intelligent chunking mechanism
<adisbladis> As one data point I built two installer ISOs where the only difference was that one had the hello package included
<adisbladis> And then added them to a casync store
<adisbladis> The diff of the entire store was only 8M despite this being two separate ISOs
<Ke> does it have alignment requirements?
<adisbladis> No
<joepie91> aha, so I was right that this sounded reminiscent of rsync :)
<adisbladis> joepie91: Indeed :) It's using the rsync protocol
<joepie91> will have to look into this more closely later...
<adisbladis> joepie91: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnNkBJ6pr9s is a good intro
<joepie91> adisbladis: put it on the list for later, thanks
<srhb> (The earlier syncoid issue was a shell incompatibility on the remote side -- for some reason my rsync.net vm was set up for csh... Go figure)
<srhb> In general their service seems really cool, but the whole VM thing is.. Weird. Like, it's completely unclear how much I manage and how much they manage.
<srhb> Oh well, guess I'll figure it out.
<supersandro2000> deduping files could be done by nix instead of locally
<supersandro2000> that could save some gigabytes
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<adisbladis> supersandro2000: I don't think deduping files is good enough
<adisbladis> It's still too coarse
<joepie91> 10/10 database security
<adisbladis> joepie91: I don't know where they expected the randomness to come from..
<joepie91> adisbladis: it's a MongoDB product, if that clarifies it any :P
<__monty__> Looks more like a note "Don't forget to populate this with a secure key."
<__monty__> Though the first comment does say "Generate" and then goes on not to.
<adisbladis> joepie91: Say no more ^_^
<adisbladis> __monty__: The C# example even says it's random
<etu> adisbladis: I mean, it "looks" encrypted if you look at the result ;)
<etu> It's just a very weak key :D
<__monty__> adisbladis: With blackbox analysis you can never be quite certain it's not though : )
<srk> hmm, vimdiff disappeared. this is bad
<adisbladis> srk: Emacs has a lot of good diffing modes ;)
<__monty__> Hmm, can't find it in 20.03/09 either. Are you sure it was packaged?
<srk> there's something weird going on with it
<srk> nix-shell --pure -p pkgs.vim_configurable
<srk> has it
<srk> but this one doesn't.. nix-shell --pure -p "pkgs.vim_configurable.customize { name = "t"; vimrcConfig = {}; }"
<srk> adisbladis: but muscle memory :| I do have emacs with evil installed tho :)
<__monty__> Maybe it's part of the default configuration but not all custom ones?
<srk> there's too much indirection
<srk> looks like a job for bisect or trace/throws
<f0x> update from yesterdays install :D
<__monty__> Is the snowflake random?
<f0x> no(t yet)
<f0x> maybe i will bikeshed that instead of setting up the server further :P
<f0x> (and should look more like galaxy/stars)
<__monty__> Ah, I thought nixos -> must be a snowflake. I mostly think of stars as dots because you can't see light rays.
<f0x> yeah i just found this ascii online somewhere
<f0x> now we're getting somewhere hehe
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<siraben> > python3Packages.arrow.meta.description
<{^_^}> "Python library for date manipulation"
<siraben> > python3Packages.arrow.meta.homepage
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<infinisil> > pshow python3.pkgs.arrow
<{^_^}> "Python library for date manipulation < https://github.com/crsmithdev/arrow >"
<hexa-> > python3.pkgs.arrow.version
<{^_^}> "0.17.0"
<hexa-> > update python3.pkgs.arrow
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'update' at (string):488:1
<hexa-> {^_^}: pls
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<pie_58> You guys think its a bad idea to use unstable GRUB for luks support?
<pie_58> well idk if its unstable but there hasnt been a release
<pie_58> *luks2 support
<hexa-> I've run pre-release GRUB as well some time ago, its fine
<hexa-> just be prepared to revert when things don't work out
<pie_58> im installing a fresh machine right now so that should be fine, but if something breaks im not sure how i could be prepared to revert given that the bootloader itself is borked. id need to have some alternative boot method
<Ke> well you can't revert the luks2 filesystem
<Ke> though I have one crypto store disk image that I loop mount that I could have on /nix/store
<pie_58> let me try again; hexa- do you have a more conrete example?
<hexa-> pie_58: of how to overwrite grub?
<hexa-> i've used this override for a while https://paste.lossy.network/YIXEK
<pie_58> hexa- well also what kind of issues could happen for example
<pie_58> thanks for the override, makes it a little easier :D
<srk> grub doesn't support luks v2 header iirc
<pie_58> hexa- why do you need to run autoconf via an override?
<pie_58> srh it does now;
<hexa-> pie_58: idk anymore
<srk> mmm, cool
<pie_58> elvishjerricco guess i should poke you too, see above, your source material for the blog post has been updated
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<pie_58> Unrelated, I removed the usb drive on a live booted system to transport the machine, can i somehow fix it? (yes, i _could_ just reboot)
<pie_58> the /iso directory is empty but the sdc1 device it was using is back
<pie_58> actually, im not sure if that dev is a zombie or something, blkid doesnt list it
<pie_58> barring that i suppose id have to remount the nix store squashfs
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<pie_58> ah well looks like im screwed unless i do some more tedious stuff, losetup is gone. reboot it is...this time-_-  :P
<f0x> now that i have a pretty procedural motd i just want to look at the motd not actually continue with setting up the server :')
<joepie91> in which f0x discovers in real-time why MOTDs are normally not procedural
<joepie91> :P
<f0x> this is why we can't have nice things!
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<infinisil> To order pizza or not to order pizza
<infinisil> Problem: I need to spend at least CHF 25, but I'm alone, and a pizza is only CHF 18
<infinisil> Aha! I'll order from another shop which only requires at least CHF 20, and whose pizza is CHF 19, and they also allow ordering anyways (with CHF 1 surcharge)
<infinisil> And their pizzas are better too
<infinisil> It has been done
<infinisil> I shall feast tonight
<V> \o/
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<siraben> infinisil: what makes you need to spend 25 CHF?
<bbigras> maybe it's the minimum for a delivery
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<infinisil> Yeee
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<f0x> installing the nix stuff on arch again in order to run morph.. it just feels so wrong haha
<aleph-> infinisil: Having steak with the in-laws tn
<aleph-> Sigh
<aleph-> Would rather stay home and eat a pizza
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<Mic92> steak > pizza imho
* etu tries to keep quiet even though he's slightly drunk
<infinisil> Ramen > pizza
* etu haven't seen a decent vegan steak
* etu isn't sure if he has seen any at all really
<samueldr> you have to find a vegan cow or beef
<etu> Idk, I would probably not like the consistency even if someone managed to make something like that.
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<aleph-> Mic92: Yeah but I have to drive two hours round trip and spend awkward time with bothersome people I don't really connect with
<Mic92> etu: what is your stand on lab-grown steaks?
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<lassulus> I ate good vegan burgers
<etu> Mic92: It produces animal cells from other animal cells, so it would require animal cells to begin with. I mean, it's still better because you can use very little animal to create a lot of animal and probably not need more animal to create more animal. So I think it's the future for 95% of people. But I still wouldn't eat it for health reasons and my stomach would probably not like it.
<samueldr> burgers are different enough from steaks that I don't know you can compare
<samueldr> (well, you can compare... e.g. you can compare an apple to a brick wall... but you know what I mean)(
<lassulus> well we compared burgers to pizza in the beginning :D
<lassulus> aeh steak
<samueldr> yeah
<etu> burgers are easy to replicate yeah
<etu> steak is a whole different beast
<samueldr> (well...)
<lassulus> i probably never ate a good steak in my life
<samueldr> burgers come from the burger bush, while steaks grow on steak trees!
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<kloenk> maybe somebody here can help me with my macos cmake/meson problem. I'm trying to link my binary against libevent and json_c. both dylibs are in a custom dir. otool -L shows the absolute path for libevent, but for json-c it only shows the file without the path. But as far as I can tell, both are linked with the same flags.
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<etu> Mic92: What's your view on the free software movement and the freedom and respect for human beings to be able to learn, grow and use computers freely? Also respect thowards minorities and other groups that may take part in free software?
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<Mic92> etu: As a systems researcher it's quite important to me that I can freely modify all code that and therefore don't depend on propritary components. All my stuff that comes out of that is also available before my publication. I am probably more of a practioner in that sense that I used and contribute back. I am not following the political movement behind too much - I like coding more than that.
<etu> Mic92: The fundamentals of the free software movement is purely ethical when it comes to human animals rights and abilities to be free to do things.
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<etu> oh, I just remembered a thing
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