gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<gchristensen> grr... I can't buy Staedtler Lumocolor refill stations here in the US without Amazon
<andi-> there is surely an AWS product for that :D
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<gchristensen> :|
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<samueldr> pens can be an expensive hobby
<samueldr> so be careful depending on what you end up looking at :)
<gchristensen> tragically, I know ;_;
<samueldr> good thing I was too broke to really get into it
<gchristensen> my brother made me borrow his https://www.gouletpens.com/products/pilot-custom-823-fountain-pen-smoke for "just a taste" and it was upsettingly lovely
<samueldr> I did buy a rötring fountain pen, quite marked down at the time
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<samueldr> oh, and unless you write exactly the same as your brother, it probably wasn't as lovely as it could have been... they have to be broken-in for each person AFAIUI
<samueldr> (or it's a myth to tell to prevent others from borrowing?)
<gchristensen> I think that might be a myth :P I dunno
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<ashkitten> wow my nix store is huge
<samueldr> how many hundred of GBs?
<ashkitten> like 4 or 5 my dude
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<ashkitten> it's because i had something like a hundred old system generations and a ton of un-gc'd buildtime deps from mass rebuilds
<ashkitten> now i can gc all that stuff because we figured out a solution to the pressure-vessel issue without changing anything big like mesa or glibc
<samueldr> because of larger images, I can get to a few hundred GBs per month :) and sometimes "my nix store is huge" is like 40GB
<samueldr> (but building images really is cheating)
<ashkitten> my fast disk is only 1TB and it's shared with my games library
<ashkitten> so i was actually running out of space
<ashkitten> had about 60GB left (after i had previously deleted some steam games to free up space)
<samueldr> :)
<samueldr> blah! #define being used abundantly in a lib is annoying to deal with, when using ffi
<ashkitten> oof
<samueldr> I think this literally just stopped me from doing anything
<samueldr> because it's opening an opaque struct in defines
<ashkitten> ><
<ashkitten> 142098 store paths deleted, 379609.70 MiB freed
<samueldr> and it's the API to use :(
<ashkitten> /dev/disk/by-uuid/b68651fb-9d82-43fc-b6e9-020ff5d4981d 928G 466G 462G 51% /
<ashkitten> so close to 50%
<samueldr> I could maybe automatically make a "libthatlibwrapper" .so that literally just does wrappedXXX() -> XXX() wrappers
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<samueldr> oh, neat, looks like the lib actually does it already, I wasn't looking for it
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<samueldr> oooh
<samueldr> when ran on a .h gives... useful results!
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<infinisil> ,launch starlik Now! https://youtu.be/fe6HBw1y6bA
<{^_^}> starlik Now! https://youtu.be/fe6HBw1y6bA: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred]
<infinisil> Now back to sleep lol, just happened to wake up at the right time :)
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<eyJhb> infinisil: WAAAAAAAAAAAY too early for me
<eyJhb> Docker continues to be a giant mess... Reproduceability? Yes, limited to one week, max.
<adisbladis> eyJhb: You kind of can make Docker builds reproducible
<adisbladis> It takes a ton of work, and when you're done you have a really crappy nix imitation
<LinuxHackerman> go team nix-to-build-docker-images
<adisbladis> :)
<eyJhb> Yuuuuuup.... I really hate it.
<eyJhb> I have a ton of "old" Dockerfiles that I want to run, but I want it NOT to be as shitty as a Dockerfile where nothing runs after some weeks, but that takes a ton of work.
<eyJhb> Unless I can bootstrap a generic setup for Nix. However. I am not sure how nice it would be to run pwn on NixOS....
<eyJhb> Maybe I should just overlay Nix ontop of Debian, then it should be "somewhat" good
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Nix is even in debian nowadays
<eyJhb> "in" how?
<adisbladis> apt-get install nix-bin
<eyJhb> AHh, but wouldn't the official installer be better anyways?
<adisbladis> Yeah, sure.
<adisbladis> Just saying it's an option :)
<eyJhb> Wait... I don't really need that. I need to look at building dockerstuff in Nix again....
<eyJhb> Ohh I keep forgetting that we have Nix in containers, but NixOS is a little different
* adisbladis sometimes dreams of decoupling services from NixOS so we can build containers with them
<eyJhb> adisbladis: Add that to the high priority queue
<eyJhb> :D
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Nooope :P
<etu> adisbladis: [nixos services as containers] That would be really nice'
<eyJhb> Just want to use the module system inside containers yeah...
<eyJhb> adisbladis: Yes. :D
<adisbladis> eyJhb: I found something for you https://www.dba.dk/monitor-ibm-perfekt-ibm/id-1075829862/
<eyJhb> It is cool, but no room and expensive :D
<adisbladis> Aww
<adisbladis> I remember using one of those back in the day
<eyJhb> Never used one :(
<eyJhb> Also! #nixos-dev, I got fun things
<ashkitten> hmm can xrgears be built for windows
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<eyJhb> Anyone know if Graphviz support Math typesetting e.g. $$\pi$$ ? Or if there is something simular that does
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<adisbladis> gchristensen: As someone who used to be in the blockchain industry... I can tell you on one hand the number of successes I know of
<adisbladis> And with sucess I mean anything that is just not fueling more blockchain (like exchanges)
<adisbladis> But I don't think that this comes down to technology, but rampant currency speculation that makes current blockchains unfeasible
<adisbladis> IMO: Everything that excites cryptocurrency people is ruining actual applications
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<sphalerite> hm, to destroy an installation without backing it up, or not to…
<sphalerite> I don't _think_ I have any valuable data on it
<sphalerite> I've had backups for longer than the installation has existed, and didn't think to set up backups for it…
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<sphalerite> so I have an old macbook pro on which I've just installed OSX Lion.
<sphalerite> Apparently High Sierra should stlil support this hardware… but I can't find how to upgrade :/
<gchristensen> Lion! Now that was a good vintage!
<adisbladis> That's the one after Slow Leper?
<gchristensen> yea
<adisbladis> Hmm, I think that was the last one I was forced to use
<adisbladis> It was pretty decent back then
<{^_^}> greatsuspender/thegreatsuspender#1263 (by TheMageKing, 13 weeks ago, open): URGENT: SECURITY: New maintainer is probably malicious
<gchristensen> yeah..
<sphalerite> oh boy, I need to install el capitan before I can do that, and that's the oldest version still available for download :o
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<infinisil> Damn
<Ke> sphalerite: having backups sounds like you are not using nixos at all
<sphalerite> I like keeping photos and stuff :)
<sphalerite> can't produce those declaratively unfortunately
<gchristensen> pfft ... keepsakes ...
<gchristensen> what are you, a complete person?
<sphalerite> I mean, given enough time, I'm sure nix will have the necessary capabilities
<sphalerite> but in the meantime, I'll keep backups :)
<tilpner> It's really just a matter of definition. Push your photos into your git config repo, have your config load them into the store, and link them in the right place. Boom, declaratively configured photos?
<tilpner> ... no?
<sphalerite> :|
<philipp[m]1> Having nix generate a new universe that replicates the memories is the only pure way.
<pie_> is that really moral
<energizer> i've been wanting to use nix for large data files but there are some problems, namely, "${data}" is loaded into memory all at once, and i want stronger guarantees that it won't be gc'ed
<pie_> accidentally gcing universes
<sphalerite> good thing you can reproduce them
<energizer> is it possible to make an add-only directory?
<philipp[m]1> pie_: I don't think human morale categories are made to handle those things.
<LinuxHackerman> not within classic unix filesystem semantics.
<cole-h> Ah, nouveau fifo faults. How I hate you so.
<pie_> LinuxHackerman: xD
<crazazy[m]> btw question
<LinuxHackerman> energizer: you can do this in various ways though, you could probably make a fuse wrapper which does this on top of a regular filesystem.
<crazazy[m]> is building smalltalk VMs really such a mess or is it just a coincidence that most smalltalk implementations are broken in nixos
<LinuxHackerman> energizer: or if you don't need something on the file system level, you could write a tiny web app that allows only uploading files via POST requests or something.
<energizer> i think that's called PUT
<energizer> LinuxHackerman: i'm wondering if i can disallow nix gc
<LinuxHackerman> energizer: PUT has overwriting semantics, POST doesn't. IIRC.
<LinuxHackerman> energizer: hm in that case you could also patch the nix daemon to reject delete operations (and only provide access to the store via the daemon)
<LinuxHackerman> unless you mean to include the generation-deletion part of GC, in which case yeah I think you'd need to do it on the filesystem level.
<LinuxHackerman> crazazy: I think it might be a combination of it being not completely trivial and it being fairly obscure ⇒ combination of obscure language and (somewhat) obscure software distribution that breaks common assumptions ⇒ broken
<LinuxHackerman> Same situation with Ada/gnat.
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<LinuxHackerman> energizer: or you could go with something like flox, but that's proprietary and in closed beta so YMMV a lot
<energizer> i definitely do want that, but i'd guess their pricing is probably enterprise ready
<LinuxHackerman> I'd guess it's currently free of charge.
<LinuxHackerman> of course, it would suck if you built something on top of it while it's free and then had to either suck up crazy pricing or abandon and redo it
<cole-h> My GPU couldn't have started hitting the crapper at a worse time :(
<samueldr> for SEO what?
<samueldr> links from the log should be nofollow
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<cole-h> Tempted to buy my own domain and use Migadu to host email for it...
<cole-h> But the only thing that would get me is moving away from freemail like gmail / outlook. That alone might be worth it...
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<bbigras> what about hey.com? I didn't hear anything from them since the announcement.
<gchristensen> I'm paying them $12/mo now
<bbigras> oh you switched. you like it?
<cole-h> Migadu is $20/yr (for the "Micro" plan), and a domain on top of that would be $12/yr. At my current email usage rate I can't really justify $156/yr, especially when I can go for $32/yr
<gchristensen> $156/y is steep for me too for email
<gchristensen> especially when I can pay $5/m to Fastmail and simply not read the email
<cole-h> lol
<andi-> Is hey still proper email? It looked like everything but compliant
<gchristensen> I mean it sends and receive but no imap / smtp
<bbigras> haha yeah. I get an email from a human about 1 per 6 month.
<bbigras> once per*
<andi-> how do you backup your mails?
<andi-> How do you read the important newsletter you got today in 20y from now?
<gchristensen> I spend my entire life wishing the emails would go away, I'd rather not back them up ... so far my strategy has been save important things else where, but yeah I don't know
<cole-h> I'd also be interested in self-hosting (on a VPS) using simple-nixos-mailserver, but then I'd have to research which VPS I want to use, reconcile budget, etc
<andi-> cole-h: a 2€/month hetzner box works just fine
<andi-> (If you push new nix paths via morph or whatever)
<gchristensen> yeah, you can't really evaluate over there
<cole-h> Seems strange. Why's that?
<gchristensen> not enough RAM
<cole-h> Just low-perf boxes?
<cole-h> Yeah, OK.
<gchristensen> you're getting 2eur worth of RAM
<cole-h> fair enough
<gchristensen> I think you need at least 4eur or 8eur worth to evaluate
<andi-> They aren't low perf
<andi-> compared to "the cloud" they do well
* andi- thinks about at abissimal IO on GCE
<andi-> and each box has 10G connection so that isn't bad either
<cole-h> Here's one thing I really, really, REALLY hate about email: the chicken-or-the-egg problem. If I didn't have an email account, I wouldn't be able to sign up for hetzner and $domainservice, which I'm going to use to host mail...
<gchristensen> yeah I mean the boxes are good boxes, for sure
<andi-> get a domain registrar you can still call and they know you
<gchristensen> can you call gandi?
<andi-> no idea
<gchristensen> gandi knows me fairly well but I've never tried to call them
<andi-> I'm entrusting the "root" of my domains to a few person company that I've been with for 15y. They know me and I accept that they are small and might disappear but that is easy to deal with compared to loosing acces.
<gchristensen> nice, where is that?
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<bbigras> I think cloudflare has a good price for domain. they say "no markups", I guess they charge the price it cost them.
<cole-h> Rather not give cloudflare any more business than I have to :P
<supersandro2000> samueldr: :(
<samueldr> that'd give an easy target for spammers, and in turn, devalue the logger's own SEO because of that
<samueldr> (it's not even my own software, I'm using off-the-shelf software)
<sphalerite> did apple seriously remove tab-based navigation of UIs between El Capitan and High Sierra?
<samueldr> yes
<sphalerite> WHY
<samueldr> iOS?
<sphalerite> ugh.
<samueldr> (half joking)
<sphalerite> I suppose I expect mac OS to be better because I last used it back when the versions were still named after cats
<ashkitten> samueldr: a little ironic that they use an ableist slur in an article about an accessibility feature :/
<gchristensen> ashkitten: I noticed that too :|
<samueldr> I'm not the one who wrote it, but yeah
<samueldr> reminder that language is highly subjective, and evolves over time, the article is now almost 6 years old
<sphalerite> ashkitten: gchristensen: ha. I noticed it, but not the bit with it being an accessibility feature.
<ashkitten> siiiigh i think it's time for me to install ubuntu...
<samueldr> hm?
<samueldr> unrelated to the discussion?
<ashkitten> yeah
<ashkitten> need to test a thing with steam
<samueldr> ah, yeah
<ashkitten> reallllllyyyy don't wanna
<samueldr> make a nix derivation that produces an ubuntu image as you'd like?
<samueldr> in other words: procrastinate in ways not really needed!
<ashkitten> eh, i don't need it set up any way
<samueldr> the crux of the argument: PRO crastinate
<ashkitten> just need to install it, get steam, install the game (which will take like... 4 hours probably), and test if it gets into vr
<samueldr> that's how you get better at doing things :)
<ashkitten> oh right i was gonna see if i could get a smaller testcase though
<sphalerite> I installed debian in a zfs filesystem using debootstrap once, entering it with systemctl switch-root. Works very nicely, if you don't need an ubuntu/debian kernel
<samueldr> ashkitten: could you export the steam game install if 4 hours come from download time?
<ashkitten> anyone know if xrgears can be compiled as a windows program?
<samueldr> I *guess* xrgears is like glxgears... but for VR... but that's only an educated guess :|
<ashkitten> correct
<samueldr> so no I don't know!
<ashkitten> :p
<ashkitten> idk where i'd even ask
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