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<andi->
Seeing yet another community (Mozilla) move away from IRC makes me sad :/ Means I'll proabably just not try to follow their chat channels or participate at all :/
<andi->
If they want that slack/discord style chat interface I really hope they go with Matrix instead. At least that isn't an information silo and people can connect/write other clients..
<eyJhb>
andi-: it generally sucks, I see no advantages in using slack/discord. But if they have moved to slack, then I can recommend using Bitlbee to connect to their channels
<andi->
eyJhb: i think us (those people using IRC and not hating it) are not the audience that needs something different or at least thinks they need something different. I also see myself as biased since I do not Facebook, Whatsapp, Snapchat and what not today's youth and probably a lot of younger developers are used to.. I just hope it either backfires due to $company going out of business instantaneously or
<andi->
they realize that closed platforms will not work as well for some of their users..
<andi->
It is kind of a sad thing to wish for failure but I gave up on large pieces of the society..
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, given what we could have learnt from history but nobody ever learns from history, the earlier failure comes, the less aggregate damage, and prolonged lack of failure does more damage than an abrupt failure.
<Taneb>
Has anyone else tried playing Imperator: Rome? I'm having trouble launching it
<Taneb>
I've added everything ldd lists to LD_LIBRARY_PATH but I still get "No such file or directory" when I try to run it
<MichaelRaskin>
You are trying to launch a non-NixOS binary?
<MichaelRaskin>
Read patchelf documentation about interpreter
<tilpner>
Try steam-run too
<Taneb>
Installed it with steam, for other games by the same developer it's Just Worked
<tilpner>
Add a terminal emulator to steam as a game to see any error messages
<tilpner>
You may need to start the game normally and then use ps or htop to grab the default flags
<Taneb>
patchelf worked
<eyJhb>
Hoping for its failure too. I simply cannot see the appeal of a closed sourced messaging system, versus e.g. IRC. But I guess it is because, "normal" people don't have bouncers, and it is nice to have a complete history of messages
<eyJhb>
WHici is also possible using IRC
<joepie91>
it's incredibly sad to me how within the Rust community, various people have been dilly-dallying over which proprietary platform to choose for the past year or so, and at no point did anybody seem to have the idea that maybe they should ask the community - a community of primarily *software developers* - to pitch in on fixing the available open platforms to meet the Rust team's requirements
<joepie91>
and it's not just Rust where I'm seeing this, there seems to be a general disinterest in contributing towards a public commons, even in supposedly-open-source projects
<colemickens>
agree, if Mozilla won't care, who will?
<joepie91>
yeah, pretty much that
<MichaelRaskin>
Apparently, French government because of sovereignity worries…
<MichaelRaskin>
Another question is «if Mozilla doesn't understand it is about Open Web, what is the point of Mozilla»…
* colemickens_
still sees i3 coming down in google-config-image in nixos-unstable. whyyyy
<gchristensen>
i3 itself, or just an i3 PAM file?
<gchristensen>
(which while not great, is possibly not as bad)
<eyJhb>
Guess it doesn't help saying, boycutt Slack?
<eyJhb>
Just started up on Python again. I really miss Golang. If Go compiles I know that it will work 9 out of 10 times, if Python runs (part of the functions) I know that when I call the rest, it will properly screw up
<gchristensen>
flake8 helps a lot with that but yeah
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<eyJhb>
gchristensen: Do you have anything like autopep8, that autoformats code, but allows me to align my variable assignments?
<eyJhb>
Makes it so much easier to do visual mode..
<gchristensen>
I use python's black formatter and call it done
<eyJhb>
:(Doesn't seem to do the trick
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<sphalerite>
simpson: you said recently that tinc can resolve DNS names, have you actually used this feature or do you just know of its existence?
<sphalerite>
I tried to do that just now and I'm getting "tincd[1354]: Error looking up lugn.soundray.org port 655: Device or resource busy"
<simpson>
sphalerite: I have had a tinc do some DNS name resolution of some sort in the past.
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<tilpner>
buckley310: Nice chat you have there, I like the colors
<buckley310>
right? :D
<tilpner>
I'm not aware of any DNS-serving features in tinc
<tilpner>
buckley310: Also that it clears your screen...
<buckley310>
tilpner: it's a feature
<sphalerite>
tilpner: nothing to do with DNS serving
<sphalerite>
tilpner: just being able to put DNS names in `Address` fields in host files.
<tilpner>
sphalerite: Oh. I suppose that might be useful if you manage DNS externally
<sphalerite>
Address, not Subnet
<sphalerite>
just for being able to find a point to connect to to get into the network
<tilpner>
Sometimes my normal DNS server doesn't work, so I can't access anything but my tinc network
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<tilpner>
I don't think I would want that, it's just hardcoding one IP. Do you change it often?
<sphalerite>
I mean, my *real* issue is that I want it to prefer IPv6 and fall back to IPv4 if that fails
<sphalerite>
which is the documented behaviour when it has multiple Address fields
<buckley310>
i wonder if they will ever be able to fix the infamous type coercion shenanigans (md5('QLTHNDT') == md5('QNKCDZO'))
<pie_>
joepie91, is there any industry consensus on whether verb|stuff or noun|stuff is better for cli/repl command UX; e.g. runCommand, runExecutor or executorRun, commandRun? (completely arbitrary examples)
<pie_>
the latter seems to work a lot better for me to find things
<pie_>
(alternatively, one could make it user configurable? :PPPP)
<MichaelRaskin>
Indeed, what are drawbacks of having both as aliases?
<pie_>
MichaelRaskin, documentation spam?
<pie_>
idk
<MichaelRaskin>
Meh, one-line cross-link doesn't sound too much spam
<pie_>
i cant really think of any good reason not to do it
<MichaelRaskin>
Possible reactions to that thing gchristensen quoted about NixOS as canary: · Yay, NixOS is well-organised and moving fast. · Yay, all the coordination problems are still not doing too much damage. · The pain, we are stuck in the multiple bottlenecks but the world around is just a garbage fire.
<pie_>
canary?
<pie_>
sidenote:i never thought id be so okay with using the least bad thing :p
<samueldr>
a regression in bind was found quickly because of our mass CI
<MichaelRaskin>
Canary in the coalmine, if something breaks, someone from Nix* complains.
<samueldr>
a platform-specific regression (aarch64)
<pie_>
samueldr, omg thats great! <3<3<3
<tilpner>
Aliases would lead to inconsistent use all over nixpkgs, and everyone would be unsure which one to use
<samueldr>
though an obvious build-time regression
<pie_>
MichaelRaskin, im familiar with the concept, im just missing the context
<pie_>
samueldr, ah, well ;)
<joepie91>
pie_: currently not in the right brain mode to answer that, sorry :)
<pie_>
joepie91, all good
<MichaelRaskin>
I am in slight horror trying to imagine how I would bisect the fact that Xorg update breaks intel+modesetting/nouveau multi-output
* joepie91
is presently being very frustrated by the events around the Rust community
<joepie91>
what a clusterfuck.
<pie_>
huh? what happened to the rust community? i thought rust generally had its shit together pretty well
<tilpner>
If they decide on Discord, you can probably use a Matrix bridge
<MichaelRaskin>
I thought we are looking at them to find examples to try to scale in a different direction?
<joepie91>
pie_: Mozilla IRC is getting shut down at some undefined point in the future, Rust project essentially tells its community to "just move to Discord"
<pie_>
oh right
<pie_>
böeh
<pie_>
blehh
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, that's more of a Mozilla-wide mess
<pie_>
mozilla pulls some really weird moves sometimes
<joepie91>
tl;dr the Rust team has made exactly zero effort to reach out to developers to get their moderation problems fixed
<samueldr>
sounds like some kind of maintainership fatigue
<joepie91>
like
<joepie91>
literally zero
<joepie91>
pretty much the entire community is going "WTF GUYS"
<joepie91>
and all I get from the community leaders is total indifference to the openness of the platform
<joepie91>
so, not a great day
<MichaelRaskin>
At that point I find writing spambots for Discord acceptable
<joepie91>
links with examples/details in the linked twitter thread
<pie_>
MichaelRaskin, the local grayhat
<samueldr>
I might be misunderstanding, but from the glance (probably should re-read it) at the mozilla post about shutting down the IRC server, the IRC server has been kicked down from admins to admins and is more seen as a liability and annoying problem to deal with than a net positive to the mozilla org
<pie_>
my total unfounded knee-jerk reaction is that mozilla is attempting to fail at all costs
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't say it has any chance of ever being _my_ priority that I follow
<pie_>
and is only managing to fail a bit at a time
<pie_>
or maybe it would be suspicious if it was too fast
<joepie91>
samueldr: that is likely accurate
<pie_>
why dont they just move to freenode anyway
<samueldr>
speaking of failures, I couldn't find much info, but is the Fenix android app that'll replace Firefox for Android able to run extensions "as well" as Firefox for Android does? it's almost impossible to search for :/
<joepie91>
samueldr: the Rust community problem is a separate one
<pie_>
samueldr, well that doesnt sound sketchy at all
<MichaelRaskin>
Fenix or Fennec?
<samueldr>
Fenix
<pie_>
im still salty about the way they gutted addons
<MichaelRaskin>
I think they still haven't added all the APIs needed to port DownthemAll…
<samueldr>
and Fennec is (was?) basically firefox but with branding removed
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes
<tilpner>
samueldr: Fennec currently isn't, but it might be added later
<samueldr>
tilpner: Fennec isn't what? able to run extensions just like firefox for android?
<samueldr>
tilpner: that doesn't mesh with what I have seen
<MichaelRaskin>
It looks like they want to wrap Gecko in a new way
<tilpner>
samueldr: Uhh, sorry, I meant the new one
<MichaelRaskin>
Which might have some good sides
<samueldr>
yes, that's at least the good thing, at first I thought they were dropping gecko and using webview
<pie_>
what no servo? :P
<andi->
/o\
<samueldr>
definitely, the new mozilla android components are not a minus
<pie_>
(or is servo part of gecko)
<MichaelRaskin>
Servo was an experiment
<MichaelRaskin>
Some experiments are still run inside Gecko
<samueldr>
just hadn't seen confirmation that extensions would or wouldn't be supported
<MichaelRaskin>
Parts of Gecko get migrated to use parts of Servo
<andi->
updating the UI fine, going with a different browswer engine or throwing away extensions would be another W.T.F. moment
<MichaelRaskin>
Apparently they _still_ have someone who remembers inability to release at the same time of IE because they were in the middle of a rewiret
<samueldr>
andi-: looks like they're setting themselves for a new WTF moment on android :(
<pie_>
i would like to say firefox seems to be the only morally acceptable browser :P so im happy that its around, but fingers crossed that things improve over time
<andi->
well I hope next they migrate firefox on the desktop to be another electron based app..
<samueldr>
gecko as wasm rendering to a canvas in electron
<samueldr>
maximum portability
<andi->
/o\
<__monty__>
Why are they rebranding exactly?
<andi->
I dont think they are rebradning. THose are just the working titles
<pie_>
samueldr, pie__ hurt itself in its confusion
<MichaelRaskin>
It is a codename
<andi->
just like Quantum
<samueldr>
__monty__: it's likely that Fenix is not a rebrand, but the name
<samueldr>
yeah
<__monty__>
But there was no Quantum app.
<MichaelRaskin>
Firefox Quantum was kind of rebrand-ish move, I expect at most that brand-side
<samueldr>
here it's like Fennec/Fenix, Fennec being the current app, Fenix being the next one; Fenix is the internal name; screenshots show "Firefox Preview"
<MichaelRaskin>
They did announce the first release when Quantum (Servo-to-Gecko ports) started landing as «Firefox Quantum»
<andi->
yeah, don't think they can afford getting rid of the brand/name
<MichaelRaskin>
And it's not like there is a reason to change the top-level user-visible name
<andi->
yep
<samueldr>
well, Firefox Focus did at one point use webviews
<samueldr>
[citation needed]
<MichaelRaskin>
It was released on iOS, too, what more citation do you need?
<{^_^}>
coreos/bugs#167 (by vcaputo, 4 years ago, closed): kexec'd kernel fails to locate RSDP on an EFI system
<nh2>
the solution was to pass `acpi_rsdp=` manually for the kexec
<pie_>
nh2, man i would find stuff like that ridiculously frustrating. nice job.
<nh2>
pie_: that stuff is ridiculously frustrating. So glad this isn't my main job
<pie_>
"oh i just need this other flag here"
<ajs124>
uff. That reminds me, I should write to linux-rdma about how my computer doesn't suspend when I mount NFS(v3) over RDMA.
<ajs124>
The issue is so ridiculous though, that I kind of don't feel like writing that email, despite the fact that I took 4h or so to bisect my kernel and track it down.
<pie_>
ajs124, u got this
<nh2>
ajs124: always write the email, it'll save the next person 32 hours (which is what I just spent on this poweroff issue until I found this issue)
<ajs124>
nh2, I kinda doubt they exist. I'll try to get around to it…
<tilpner>
Hard-coded include paths, why... :(
<pie_>
tilpner, nyeh :c , talk to upstream?
<pie_>
as i get older the complexity of things increasingly irks me
<pie_>
maybe its not an age but a "reading about engineering" thing
<pie_>
ok complexity is probably unavoidable but then we have to make some verifiable abstract guarantees to not shoot ourselves in the foot
<pie_>
eh nvm, im tweeting^Wscreaming into the void of the choir
* samueldr
should rename home directory to 🏠
<samueldr>
to C:\🏠
<pie_>
oh you should do that with that one kernel module graham used
<samueldr>
kernel module that did what&
<samueldr>
?*
<pie_>
hid all the root directories and made it look like a mac