gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<samueldr> a (wip) hypervisor with the goal of deterministic execution
drakonis1 has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<colemickens> gchristensen: I'm not sure what you mean. Perf is still so all over the place for me on HiDPI that I can't say I've noticed a specific issue with video/gifs.
<colemickens> gchristensen: depending on your desire to tinker, WebRender might change your performance if you wanted to opt-in to it. But backup your profile or be prepared to manually edit your config if WebRender is broken on your system, etc.
<gchristensen> isn't there something about acceleration unique to wayland?
<colemickens> There was a bug for quite a while where WebRender+Wayland were specifically broken, but afaik it's been closed and WR was working on my machine for a while, supposedly.
_Geeko_ has joined #nixos-chat
<colemickens> Other than that, I'm not really sure.
<colemickens> (libva + intel is specifically broken under Wayland in nixpkgs, but that doesn't intersect with Firefox at all since FF doesn't have any code for video acceleration on Linux.)
_Geeko_ has left #nixos-chat [#nixos-chat]
drakonis1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
ninjin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
endformationage has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
eyJhb is now known as eyJhb
<eyJhb> gchristensen: did I break grahamcofborg? :p
<srhb> eyJhb: Hmm?
<sphalerite> gchristensen: re aborting: do it again in gdb!
<{^_^}> ofborg#348 (by grahamc, 5 hours ago, merged): set_with_description actually does the thing, set_url is lies
<eyJhb> Just reffed my PR in a PR for the bot
<srhb> Oh. :P
<andi-> colemickens: have you tried using webgl on Wayland with Firefox? Been trying to figure out if it is generic EGL that's broken on Wayland or if it is Firefox..
<eyJhb> If it is a yes, then I think it may warrant a trophy!
<eyJhb> btw. srhb have you seen https://envavo.com/heatbuff ?
<srhb> eyJhb: I had not. :P
<eyJhb> srhb: it works if you have a normal keyboard, not so much for the ergodox.. :p
steveeJ has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer]
nh2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
colemickens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
steveeJ has joined #nixos-chat
nh2 has joined #nixos-chat
colemickens has joined #nixos-chat
Haskellfant has joined #nixos-chat
cocreature has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Haskellfant is now known as cocreature
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
ninjin has joined #nixos-chat
pie__ has joined #nixos-chat
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds]
<pie__> is there a place one would propose *starting* a new rfc?
pie__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
andi- has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
pie__ has joined #nixos-chat
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
andi- has quit [Excess Flood]
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
pie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
andi- has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
andi- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<infinisil> pie_: maybe just chat about it on irc
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
andi- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
jasongrossman has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> eyJhb: no, I broke it in a cleanup refactoring :)
<gchristensen> eyJhb: also, I broke it when I wrote such a horrible API :P
<eyJhb> gchristensen: DO I get a award anyway? :p
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
ivan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ivan has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> some time ago I shared my super bad, barely working thunderbolt authorization script, is the person who wanted that here?
<emily> I dunno, but it sounds vaguely interesting to me too
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis1 has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<{^_^}> zfsonlinux/zfs#8572 (by lovesegfault, 1 week ago, open): New 0.8 RC
<infinisil> I want
<gchristensen> probably not yet
<gchristensen> it has some horrible show-stopping bugs
<tilpner> Yeah, my laptop freezes during scrub :/
<gchristensen> and `zfs send` is broken in ways
<tilpner> One of those issues was just closed
<infinisil> Do not want anymore
<averell> i've been using unstable for so long. i hope they don't push encryption to the next release
<gchristensen> they can't I don't think
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> It is a strange feeling when doing some fun friday basic neural network, and you ask "what is this number between 0 and 9", and it says "214".
<gchristensen> ship it!
<averell> you didn't stir the pile enough
<eyJhb> I could just rename it to "random number generator", and that would be marketing!
<gchristensen> just % 9 it and call it done
<Taneb> (% 10, surely?)
<gchristensen> eh
<gchristensen> its AI
<averell> safety margin :)
<gchristensen> % 9 is close enough
<Taneb> Fair
<eyJhb> Quite sure Taneb is a mind reader now, as the number I actually put in was 4..
<qyliss> Call it the first random number generator that can generate random numbers from the set of all numbers with no known upper bound
<eyJhb> *no known upper bound :p True! :p
<Taneb> eyJhb: I work for an AI company and I'm working on a neural network library in my spare time, I know what the right answer ought to be
<qyliss> / chosen by fair dice roll
<Taneb> That said, I don't really know neural networks
<eyJhb> As one could have guessed, neither do I! But within a month, I will either have to understand it, or fail this semester :p
<gchristensen> •?((¯°·._.•who does•._.·°¯))؟•
<infinisil> Reminds me of this recent video by Numberphile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TkIe60y2GI
<averell> it's when you have multiple layers of cool AI
<infinisil> (regarding the "set of all numbers")
<qyliss> I had an "Algorithms, Data Structures and Learning" class. Needed 40% to pass. I got near 100% on Algorithms and Data Structures and near 0 on Learning
<qyliss> It all worked out and I still don't understand NNs.
<eyJhb> Did that qualify as a pass?
<qyliss> Yep
<gchristensen> such a good one, infinisil
<eyJhb> If you did that at my uni, you would have failed, hard
<qyliss> It was a pass because it was all combined into one class
<qyliss> And split 50/50
<eyJhb> Which both sucks, and understandable
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<qyliss> I dropped out shortly afterward so didn't really matter
<eyJhb> Yeah... We have a class called `Engineering mathematics for electronical engineers`, which is a single class, but have three different subjects. YOu have to get at least 10% in each subject and combined at least 50% I think
<eyJhb> And that class is as `fun` as it sounds.....
<eyJhb> Fair :D
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<eyJhb> Also the great fun of rebuilding OpenCV because changing the ENVs above in the Dockerfile yields in a new rebuild :(
<qyliss> I was about to tell you about Nix before I realised what channel I was in
<eyJhb> Regarding OpenCV or? :p
<qyliss> Regarding Docker
<eyJhb> Ahh, what about it?
<eyJhb> Just adding OpenCV to my .nix? :p
<qyliss> or generating the container through it, or whatever
<eyJhb> Ahh, it isn't that big of a hassle normally. BUt just this single case, where I need opencv, gocv and python bindings for OpenCV including matplotlib .. That sucks
<eyJhb> And Matplotlib have a bad habit of simply not wanting to display anything basically
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<buckley310> So, now that 19.03 has been announced, I am starting an experiment. I am launching a "tilde-club" style server, based on NixOS. https://nixo.sh Basically it's a shared server with shell accounts, and per-account web directories. If anyone wants to have a go, send me a message :)
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<tilpner> buckley310: Is there a user-accessible daemon running?
<buckley310> for builds? yes
<buckley310> users can install packages.
<tilpner> Interesting, that'd be a great advantage over other publich shell servers
<tilpner> Though I've seen one shy away from the potential security problems of a shared daemon
<tilpner> (Which isn't really a problem for you if you hand-vet every user)
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
<tilpner> I imagine you'd need someday need tools to display references space per-user
<tilpner> *referenced
<infinisil> buckley310++
<{^_^}> buckley310's karma got increased to 2
<buckley310> yeah probably
<buckley310> :D level 1
<buckley310> 2*
<infinisil> tilpner: ZFS has some fancy per-user/per-project management builtin
<tilpner> infinisil: That's not what I'm worried about
<tilpner> infinisil: I don't think zfs will help manage what a user can reference in the store
<tilpner> And if a user decides to reference *everything*, you can't gc anymore
<tilpner> Speaking of, any user can gc anytime, right?
* infinisil just tried it and it seems so
<eyJhb> What. Can I call the bot of doom myself?!
<buckley310> my impression of gc is that it only removed packages that are not referenced. things that are part of, for example, a users's nix-env would be kept, is that correct?
<tilpner> Yes, but not everyone roots things properly
<infinisil> That's their fault :P
<gchristensen> +1
<buckley310> lol
<infinisil> There's plenty of ways to root things properly
<tilpner> infinisil: What about runCommand "random" {} "head -c 1G /dev/urandom > $out"?
<infinisil> Well, not too many, but there is ways
<tilpner> No way to track that per-user with zfs either
<tilpner> ... I think I shouldn't have an account
<infinisil> Why not?
<buckley310> i mean any user can bring down the system with `sort </dev/zero`, so i mean at a certain point you just have to let it go :)
<emily> not with ulimits...
<tilpner> As you can see, my first thoughts went to "I wonder in what ways this can be abused"
<joepie91> sounds like a great tester
<gchristensen> at a certaint point, who cares
<emily> Unix has, in fact, addressed the *most* basic security problems of its multiuser model >_>
<tilpner> I don't want to break things, but eventually someone will come along and mine cryptocurrency during nix builds
<buckley310> is there any way to apply memory ulimits to a user, rather than a process?
<emily> tilpner: better you than them
<emily> free red team!
<emily> whereby "free" I mean "unpaid and you do the work", of course.
<buckley310> i did take the time to apply an nproc ulimit, but not a ton else yet xD
<infinisil> tilpner: I'd be worried regarding that with a public server, but this is invite only
<tilpner> infinisil: For now, yes. And it's fine if it stays like that
<tilpner> infinisil: I know a few such offerings with public registration, so I assumed this would eventually go that direction as well
<infinisil> buckley310: Btw, am I allowed to add additional people myself if I trust them?
<emily> you should definitely be worried about invite-only if you allow transitive trust
<buckley310> infinisil: yes, just dont give anyone else admin rights for the moment
<infinisil> emily: Ah, explanation: buckley310 made me an admin as well
<infinisil> buckley310: Alright
<infinisil> But I think everybody can add additional ssh keys anyways
<emily> infinisil: ah, makes sense ^^;
<tilpner> An invite system where people are responsible for who they invite (and this is tracked) might work
<infinisil> Like lobste.rs :)
<buckley310> so if i invite someone who invites someone who invites someone who does something bad, i ban myself D:
<emily> it's only fair :3
<tilpner> No, you ban the person who did something bad and give one strike to the person who invited them
<tilpner> (And maybe half a strike to the person who invited the person who invited the person who did something bad, and so on)
<infinisil> I wonder how lobste.rs implemented that exactly
<tilpner> Though if you make that chain too long, everyone might become so afraid to invite anyone that you end up with no users
<tilpner> So infinisil, you totally trust me, right? c.c
<infinisil> tilpner: I do :) Want an account?
<tilpner> Yes. I probably won't use it much, but I'll play around a little, and login every once in a while to test ping or dns to something else
<infinisil> tilpner: SSH key?
<tilpner> Too long for IRC :/
<tilpner> Thanks!
<infinisil> Seems to work :)
<tilpner> I wonder if "tons of" should be more precise
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<tilpner> But I guess that problem solves itself after buckley310 looks at my link
<buckley310> but if i'm vague, it can mean whatever i want it to mean, at any time :)
<tilpner> buckley310: typo in "I cannot garuntee the reliability of the system"
<buckley310> I cannot garuntee the reliability of my spelling
<infinisil> Heh
<buckley310> ty
<tilpner> Consider programs.mosh.enable, it might help some users who are physically far away
<buckley310> i thought about enabling that. i might.
<tilpner> It can be installed with nix-env, but there's probably a firewall blocking the way
<buckley310> there is
<buckley310> yeah the only downside is just that it makes it easy to accidentally leave processes running, i guess i can turn it on and see how much of an issue that really is in practice
<tilpner> It seems wrong that I can see your IP address, but I don't know how to fix that
<tilpner> (loginctl show-session)
<infinisil> Or just `who`
<tilpner> Or that
<infinisil> We need a better way to chat lol
<tilpner> You were just using wall, right?
<infinisil> I was using write
<buckley310> wall is my social network
<buckley310> i had hoped to write a small python script that just broadcasted messages over DBUS and use that for server-less messaging, but i dont think dbus allows things to work that way
<buckley310> so mail or IRC or something is on the todo
<infinisil> Hmm..
<tilpner> Synapse c.c
<infinisil> A shared terminal would be really cool
<joepie91> afaik dbus is strictly many to/from one
<infinisil> And could be used to chat too
<buckley310> i could set up a user account that everyone is allowed to sudo TO and then we can all play multiplayer tmux? xD
<tilpner> oh no
<infinisil> Sounds good to me?
<buckley310> maybe a little later :)
<infinisil> A systemd service that keeps a tmux session running all the time sounds good
<tilpner> infinisil: Can you try tmux -S /tmp/infinisil.s new -s sharedsession?
<tilpner> Uhh
<tilpner> tmux -S /tmp/infinisil.s attach -t sharedsession
<tilpner> Very secure, and totally against the rules
MichaelRaskin has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> tilpner: :P
<tilpner> I think I prefer my weechat :)
<infinisil> It's more functional but less fun
ivan has quit [Quit: lp0 on fire]
<gchristensen> is there a nice way to find the longest line in a file?
<gchristensen> (bash)
ivan has joined #nixos-chat
<tilpner> buckley310: You also want security.hideProcessInformation
<tilpner> And some private /tmp
_Geeko_ has joined #nixos-chat
<_Geeko_> manveru hi
<buckley310> i suppose there would be at least some value in security.hideProcessInformation...
<colemickens> lol never using Matrix again
<aminechikhaoui> :D that was pretty interesting, did they have a jenkins server open to the world that started all the issues ?
<averell> probably with manual oversight
<colemickens> yes
<averell> err, ignore pls
<gchristensen> it is tempting to put jenkins public for transparency
<colemickens> lol I thought it was a relevant reply. Most of the bugs reported about Matrix all made it sound like very manually orchestrated infra
<sphalerite> buckley310: that seems neat, I'd join for fun and profit :D
<colemickens> internet-facing jenkins getting hacked was an old meme years ago though
<gchristensen> yup
<colemickens> I'm more offended at gpg signing keys laying around
<gchristensen> yupyup
<aminechikhaoui> it was a good reminder that not following security best practices can pile up to a major breach
<colemickens> TBH though, it was a wake-up call for me regarding some of my agent forwarding practices. Which I should have thought of, given that I am going to be relying on agent forwarding working that way for a project.
<joepie91> aminechikhaoui: more interestingly, it's provided a peek-behind-the-curtains of a *real* attacker
<joepie91> I suspect I'll be referring people to this incident for a long time, as a demonstration of what happens when you have a competent attacker who finds a bunch of individually-relatively-small issues
<joepie91> entirely too many people who trivialize anything that doesn't look like an obvious vuln.
<aminechikhaoui> right, there was nothing fancy in the attacks, just patience :p
<joepie91> exactly!
<sphalerite> joepie91: no, dbus can be (ab?)used in one-to-many modes as well, using the monitoring or waiting features
<joepie91> aminechikhaoui: it's almost the perfect example :)
<colemickens> I have no hope - I can't get anyone in my life to use a password manager, let alone 2FA except in extreme situations.
<gchristensen> best bet is probably windows hello
<joepie91> colemickens: I can see webauthn seriously changing things in the next few years
<joepie91> just needs a bit more hype
<colemickens> joepie91: idk, "what if I lose it?" followed by "well, have a backup that you always keep with you to be able to register...??" is a conversation I still don't like having.
<joepie91> colemickens: these are all, essentially, solvable UX problems
<joepie91> they were never the problem
<joepie91> once enough people care about the concept, the UX problems will get sorted
<joepie91> but until now, few people cared about the concept :P
<joepie91> and one of the most effective ways to get people to care about a concept, is to shoehorn it into a browser, in practice...
<colemickens> joepie91: I guess I'm saying I don't understand the solution. The only solution I've seen is to backup the root secret and then restore it on a new device with a higher counter value. But that's not great at all, imo.
<joepie91> colemickens: that's out of scope for webauthn and dependent on the individual device
<joepie91> (afaik)
<colemickens> That doesn't really jive with my understanding of the protocol, but I'm thinking more of the 2FA use, Idk if webauthn differs significantly.
<joepie91> webauthn is just the API layer that bridges between [bunch of token authentication mechanisms, hardware or otherwise] and websites
<joepie91> ie. the thing that makes such auth mechanisms integrate into browsers in a standardized way in the first place
<colemickens> The 2fa protocol though, requires an increasing counter. Making it very difficult to imagine sharing a single secret between multiple tokens.
<gchristensen> only hotp does, totp doesn't
<colemickens> Thus, the user has to have a backup token. And thus has to deal with the UX difficulties of having a "backup" that must be accessible during enrollment.
<colemickens> gchristensen: for FIDO 2FA?
<gchristensen> oh maybe yeah that one does
<gchristensen> I dunno
<colemickens> The only sort of example I've seen requires a non-production u2f token that allows exporting or specifying the private key. You can then generate offline and place it in two tokens, the second of which can be set to a higher counter value. Now you have a backup, but you can't use the first one ever again after using the second one once.
<colemickens> Now that Google is allowing an Android phone to act as a FIDO 2FA device, I'm curious if they have some sort of plan, or if they just plan to make token migration easy for Google accounts. (https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/04/10/1621253/you-can-now-use-your-android-phone-as-a-2fa-security-key-for-google-accounts)
<MichaelRaskin> (and the inevitable security UI messup around migration — haven't seen Google do _anything_ completely right ever — will provide us with interesting stories for years to come)
lejonet has joined #nixos-chat
<sphalerite> jD91mZM2: xidlehook's --not-when-fullscreen doesn't work for me anymore :(
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
tilpner has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tilpner has joined #nixos-chat
pie__ has joined #nixos-chat
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
_Geeko_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<jasongrossman> :-)
jasongrossman has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
jasongrossman has joined #nixos-chat