<LnL>
aah, what I hate about gpg signing is that I loose my commit message if I type a wrong password
<infinisil>
LnL: you don't have 3 tries?
<LnL>
yes, but I can't type :p
<gchristensen>
LnL: is it still there in .git/COMMIT_MESSAGE?
<LnL>
gchristensen: oh, yes!
<gchristensen>
good :)
<gchristensen>
I've lost many many commit messages that way, haha
<LnL>
why doesn't git open that with my next attempt...
<gchristensen>
__monty__: a specific good quote, "if you’re running non-ECC RAM that turns out to be appallingly, Lovecraftianishly evil, ZFS will mitigate the damage, not amplify it"
<infinisil>
LnL: there must be a way to get that working
<LnL>
and over time I've started to find commit messages more and more important, I try never to write a one-liner anymore
<infinisil>
I certainly do, I commit every time I change my system config
<gchristensen>
LnL: you're a much more considerate developer than me
<LnL>
btw,I love the nix git history, it's kind of all or northing :p
<gchristensen>
hh
<LnL>
oh! builtins.fromTOML, somebody has been doing rust stuff :)
<ekleog>
didn't nbp make, like, a lib.fromTOML a few months|years ago? this may remove quite a bit of code :°
<LnL>
yeah, the mozilla overlays use a nix implementation
<infinisil>
An *incomplete* one
<LnL>
probably
<infinisil>
Yaml is famously complicated to implement fully, there's many yaml libraries that don't confirm to the sepc
<infinisil>
Spec
<infinisil>
I even saw a "yaml" implementation that doesn't even work with json
<infinisil>
(yaml is supposed to be a superset of json)
<LnL>
it didn't start out that way I think
<ekleog>
infinisil: do we agree we're speaking of toml here?
* ekleog
thinks he missed some context somehow
<infinisil>
Ohh
<infinisil>
Yea i thought of yaml, sorry
<infinisil>
Taking everything back then
<gchristensen>
but also the toml implementation in builtins.fromTOML is incomplete
<joepie91>
"Your Home folder is running out of disk space, you have 173 MiB remaining (0%) "
<joepie91>
:(
<gchristensen>
is it garbage collection day?
<joepie91>
apparently, lol
<joepie91>
currently ncdu'ing, I might just have some big junk somewhere
<joepie91>
this is my primary HDD filling up, which is only 1TB
<gchristensen>
I have like 45G of vagrant boxes :|
<joepie91>
I... probably have an old vagrant box sitting somewhere? from years ago
<joepie91>
but I doubt it's that big
<joepie91>
other than that, I just have lots of assorted junk lol
<joepie91>
like, "oh I want to run some numbers on historical weather, let's download 30 years of climate data" is a fairly regular kind of occurrence to me...
<joepie91>
also lots of archived repositories and other crap that's at risk of deletion
<__monty__>
joepie91: Was it you who said analyses have been done comparing environmental impact of fiat vs crypto currencies?
<gchristensen>
#nixos-chat-crypto
<gchristensen>
#nixos-chat-cryptocurrencies
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Just 1 link. That's all I'm asking ; )
<joepie91>
__monty__: yes, but I do not immediately have the links handy, and various Twitter discussions have exhaused my energy for cryptocurrency-related things for a while :P
<__monty__>
joepie91: I'd appreciate if you send me the links if you come across them again.
<joepie91>
will do
<gchristensen>
non-USAians, do people in your cultures value "fine china"?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I know that historically, 'porcelain tableware' was something that was valued here in NL, but I don't know if that's still a thing
<joepie91>
(literally translated)
<gchristensen>
interesting. do some people still pass it down like a family heirloom?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I *think* so, but rather out of a sense of tradition rather than because it's porcelain
<joepie91>
answer confidence: 40%
<joepie91>
:P
<gchristensen>
hehe, yes, same
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<jD91mZM2>
Uh oh... "To sync your Dropbox, move your Dropbox folder to a partition with a compatible File System. Dropbox is compatible with Ext4."
<joepie91>
...wat
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<jD91mZM2_>
joepie91: Seems I can't use dropbox with ZFS D:
<joepie91>
that seems like a stupid limitation
<joepie91>
also: 11114 store paths deleted, 40762.70 MiB freed
<jD91mZM2_>
Indeed
<gchristensen>
not bad
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<simpson>
jD91mZM2_: Happens. You picked the wrong service.
<gchristensen>
jD91mZM2_: make a file inside ZFS and format it, and mount it ext4? :)
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<infinisil>
Or a zvol
<jD91mZM2>
joepie91: Is that from a GC? Wow
<joepie91>
yeah
<jD91mZM2>
simpson: What do you recommend?
<joepie91>
deleting old generations
<joepie91>
anyway, 40GB cleaned up from a GC, 325GB in my home folder...
<jD91mZM2>
Wow. My max is like 18GB, and that got filled straight back on the next rebuild
<joepie91>
where the hell is the rest of the space
<joepie91>
oh yeah, I split this up into two partitioins
<gchristensen>
last time I had runaway space it was a 100GB audit log on a centos box.
<jD91mZM2>
gchristensen: That's a cool idea! Would it automount?
<gchristensen>
it can
<simpson>
jD91mZM2: Well, to be extremely biased, you could use a Tahoe-LAFS grid. They are *provider-independently secure*; it doesn't matter who owns and operates the grid, they can't read your files.
<jD91mZM2>
joepie91: Now do a nix-store --optimise, that usually cleans a crap ton more for me if I haven't done it in a while
<simpson>
My bias is that I own and operate matador.cloud, but there's also https://leastauthority.com/ which is more oriented towards personal backups.
<simpson>
Plus, buying services from LAE helps fund Tahoe-LAFS development.
<gchristensen>
yay LAFS
<jD91mZM2>
I literally just store my password manager vault on dropbox heh
<joepie91>
holy shit bucklescript (bs-platform npm module) is 354MB, what
<simpson>
jD91mZM2: How courteous of you to share your passwords with Dropbox~
<joepie91>
oh, vendor'd ocaml
<jD91mZM2>
simpson: Obviously encrypted :)
<simpson>
jD91mZM2: How is that obvious? It's not a LAFS.
<joepie91>
(password manager vaults are typically encrypted)
<jD91mZM2>
Wouldn't store my plain text passwords on dropbox :P
<LnL>
I've been meaning to try out LAFS
<jD91mZM2>
simpson: Does LAFS have a mobile app so I can use it with KeePass mobile?
<simpson>
No.
<simpson>
We've discussed this quite a bit. The general agreement seems to be that phones are terrible.
<simpson>
The protocol only exists in Python right now. Somebody would have to be incentivized to make a JVM or iOS port.
<jD91mZM2>
infinisil: Oh, zvols are like embedded filesystems in a zpool? Wow
<infinisil>
Yup
<gchristensen>
infinisil: whoa
<simpson>
(There's upstream work to create a more standard and portable protocol, but again, we need people to care; only one person is working on it paid right now.)
<infinisil>
Not sure on its limits, there are some problems when you use them for swap. But they are optimal for VMs
<jD91mZM2>
Btw zfs seems to mount my dataset root as /main. Is this a problem?
<jD91mZM2>
I mean, my sub-datasets like main/home and main/root are mounted as /home and / respectively
<jD91mZM2>
but main itself is mounted as /main, I think?
<sphalerite>
no. But if you want to avoid that you can do zfs set main mountpoint=none
<jD91mZM2>
sphalerite: What happens if I store data in there? Will it just get stored like normally or does anything special happen because it has children?
<gchristensen>
jD91mZM2: I only have so much space in my brain
<jD91mZM2>
gchristensen: Didn't mean "you didn't read enough", more like "if you're interested, here's a link that you shared with me back"
<gchristensen>
ahh :)
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: The only thing the hierarchy of zfs datasets does is inherit properties
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: But each one of them, parents, children, are its own usable dataset
<jD91mZM2>
infinisil: Awesome, thanks!
<infinisil>
So you can mount, set quotas, whatever you need with them, or disable mounting completely. The last of which is useful when you only want to use parents to group properties to get the inherit behaviour
<jD91mZM2>
And creating a zvol won't even require unmounting my drive, will it? Damn I love ZFS
<joepie91>
"A supported file system is required as Dropbox relies on extended attributes (X-attrs) to identify files in the Dropbox folder and keep them in sync. We will keep supporting only the most common file systems that support X-attrs, so we can ensure stability and a consistent experience."
<joepie91>
rephrased: lol fuck you, we don't care about supporting uncommon things
<infinisil>
But ZFS does support xattrs!
<joepie91>
so yeah, I have to agree with simpson here; you picked the wrong service :P
<joepie91>
infinisil: the problem isn't that ZFS doesn't support xattrs
<joepie91>
the problem is that Dropbox doesn't want to spend time implementing support for it
<joepie91>
and testing it
<jD91mZM2>
More like "In order to make you feel good about using dropbox, we want to make sure it never ever fails. So we have a hardcoded list of thigns that are guaranteed to work"
<infinisil>
Yeah
<joepie91>
jD91mZM2: which they can also just do by testing for ZFS
<joepie91>
but that is, apparently, too much work
<jD91mZM2>
I'm sure enabling ZFS support is literally just adding it to the hardcoded list heh
<joepie91>
either way, what I read from this thread is "we don't care about supporting you if you use something that's uncommon enough to be unprofitable to support"
<gchristensen>
maybe you can patch it
<joepie91>
there are so many ways to deal with this that doesn't result in this "doesn't work" failure mode
<joepie91>
that don't *
<jD91mZM2>
Worst part is I can't choose any service I like because I really need it to work with KeePassXC Android
<jD91mZM2>
Keepass2Android*
<joepie91>
:(
<joepie91>
yeah, I guess you'll have to look into patching out the check then
<joepie91>
jD91mZM2: what does nix-store --optimise do anyway? it seems very slow
<jD91mZM2>
joepie91: IIRC it removes duplicates and hard-links them instead
<gchristensen>
--optimise freaks me out.
<jD91mZM2>
Saved me almost 25% of my usage once I believe
<infinisil>
joepie91: Yup, after it's done, look into /nix/store/.links
<infinisil>
It contains every single file in every derivation as a hash
<jD91mZM2>
So... I just made an ext4 zvol... it still complains about it
<joepie91>
infinisil: right :P
<joepie91>
jD91mZM2: is your nix-explorer meant to be built against nightly?
<jD91mZM2>
joepie91: Yeah, I'm using the rust 2018 edition for all new projects
<joepie91>
right
<jD91mZM2>
I usually like stable, but... rust 2018 man
<joepie91>
infinisil: is it safe to interrupt the optimise process?
<infinisil>
I don't know for sure, but my guess would be yes
<jD91mZM2>
I've totally done that once
<jD91mZM2>
So it should be safe, unless I'm just lucky
<joepie91>
heh
<joepie91>
I'll just let it run for a bit then...
<joepie91>
also
<joepie91>
what the *fuck* does Anker do to their Powerline USB cables
<joepie91>
I have a 3M cable and it works flawlessly even with finicky stuff like flashing microcontrollers
<joepie91>
even good cables typically fail after 2M
<infinisil>
Not trying to be rude or anything, but inquisitiv is asking too many questions
<gchristensen>
infinisil: I can say something if you'd like, but also you should feel free to say so
<joepie91>
(it's non-confrontationally written, unlike the 'asking smart questions' thing)
<infinisil>
gchristensen: Nah it's fine, I'll just slow down my reply-rate a bit
<jD91mZM2>
What would happen if I ran `sudo zfs destroy main/root` (while still mounted)?
<jD91mZM2>
would it be like rm -rf --no-preserve-root /?
<jD91mZM2>
or would it complain?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: to expand on my earlier answer re: tableware.. in NL it's common nowadays to approach 'passing down things' from a more pragmatic angle; typically parents will collect a pile of old tableware, miscellaneous utility items, sometimes furniture, etc. when they replace their own... and when $child leaves the home, usually when they go to college/uni, they get that pile of stuff from their parents
<joepie91>
passing down of family heirlooms typically happens later in life, afaik
<joepie91>
the optimise is still running... I've gone from 40G free to 54G free so far
<jD91mZM2>
Told you it's the best :D
<joepie91>
jD91mZM2: dunno, there seems to be a distinct CPU / disk space tradeoff here so far :D
<sphalerit>
jD91mZM2: alternatively to messing atoound with ext4 and zvols, I think zfs supports xattrs
<sphalerit>
You just need to enable it
<jD91mZM2>
sphalerit: I bet Dropbox just keeps a hardcoded list of what filesystems "are supported" without giving a crap about if I enable xattrs or not
<sphalerit>
Check `zfs get xattr <your-fs>`
<jD91mZM2>
on (default)
<jD91mZM2>
So... does anybody here know any good Google Drive clients? :P
<joepie91>
lol
<joepie91>
57GB and counting..
<jD91mZM2>
Freed by this one invokation or in total?
<joepie91>
in total; that's 17GB freed by optimisation so far
<joepie91>
I probably have a pretty big nix store though
<jD91mZM2>
TFW sigkill won't kill a program
<gchristensen>
an issue with optimizing is if you have a LOT of files, depending on your FS, you might hit the birthday problem
<gchristensen>
yeah, because you have millions of files in one dir (/nix/store/.links) you risk a collision in the FS
<gchristensen>
it doesn't break anything or corrupt anything, just can't create the new file
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<infinisil>
gchristensen: But like, those are cryptographic hash functions, which shouldn't let you find even a single collision within millions of years of computing!
* samueldr
would argue not creating the file breaks whatever tried to create the file
<infinisil>
(sha256 and co. at least)
<gchristensen>
ext4 doesn't use sha256 to create the hash table of files in a directory
<gchristensen>
it isn't a collision of different files matching, it is a collision of inodes in the tree
<jD91mZM2>
google-drive-ocaml seems to use fuse to create a mountpoint for Google Drive. Does this mean my password database is never physically on my drive? (That seems scary if Google Drive would ever go down)
<joepie91>
32789.67 MiB freed by hard-linking 1690459 files
<joepie91>
anybody have recommendations for an editor/IDE/whatever that'll help me navigate through a C++ codebase by figuring out where things are defined and whatnot? editing is not required, so just a codebase viewer is fine too
<infinisil>
So if you code haskell and c++ in emacs and vim, you do `lsp.clients = [ "vim" "emacs" ]; lsp.servers = [ "clangd" "haskell-ide-engine" ];`
<infinisil>
And you got a vim and emacs setup to work perfectly with those 2 languages
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<samueldr>
oh, easter egg at google, search for: Bletchley Park
<joepie91>
yes! I seem to have definition-jumps in Atom now!
<jD91mZM2>
What backup solutions do you people have? I know sphalerite uses zfs to mirror his drive, but anybody else?
<sphalerit>
No I don't use mirroring as a backup
<jD91mZM2>
oh
<sphalerit>
I use mirroring for redundancy on some machines, but mirroring is not backup
<sphalerit>
I use zfs snapshots with send/recv (replication I think?) for backup
<jD91mZM2>
sphalerit: That's the thing I meant. You send a snapshot and receive it on another disk
<jD91mZM2>
Kindaaaaa like mirroring, but only mirroring fixed points...?
<sphalerit>
And not within the same pool. Mirroring is in the same pool
<jD91mZM2>
sphalerit: Didn't mean mirroring as in RAID-something stuff, or whatever the technical stuff is
<jD91mZM2>
Meant mirroring as in making sure two things are identical
<sphalerit>
Yeah but that's what mirroring refers to in the context of zfs :p
<jD91mZM2>
Noted
<jD91mZM2>
I tried `zfs send` on my home folder and it took forever lol
<jD91mZM2>
s/folder/dataset
<sphalerit>
An incremental snapshot from there should be significantly faster
<sphalerit>
But yeah a complete snapshot will take as long to transfer as all of the data stored in the filesystem
<samueldr>
I use borg backup, which operates at the files level, it has pretty awesome deduplication between backups
<samueldr>
both time-wise (earlier and later backups) and across computers, when using the same archive
<samueldr>
since my main computers already synchronize a bunch of files, this deduplicates the backup a bunch
<jD91mZM2>
Ooooo yeeeeeaa this looks awesome
<jD91mZM2>
LZ4 compression, encryption, oooo
<jD91mZM2>
Can it sync with S3?
<samueldr>
duno!
<samueldr>
I use it with another (physically distant) computer
<jD91mZM2>
Over ssh? Or..?
<samueldr>
ssh
<samueldr>
I also used it, for a good while, with a USB disk
<samueldr>
probably should go back to doing this
<samueldr>
(having a local hot copy off all my computers
<jD91mZM2>
How big do those USBs typically have to be?
<jD91mZM2>
I mean, on a scale from the original data of course
<samueldr>
I'll start a manual backup to show you the scale deduplication
<samueldr>
(it prints a report at the end)
<samueldr>
but generally, it's dataset + whatever size is needed for the delta, compressed... it'll vary greatly depending on whether it compresses well I guess
<samueldr>
I know I never had to actively purge backups on a 1TB drive, but that's for a dataset that was around a hundred gigabytes I think, probably less
<samueldr>
(it can also be configured to keep data in a finer-grained manner, e.g. one for each month, except for the last month, one for each week, except the last week, one for each day)
<jD91mZM2>
Nice, thank you a lot!
<jD91mZM2>
I don't think it supports S3 :(. But it seems amazing otherwise!
<infinisil>
jD91mZM2: Note that zfs supports this as well
<gchristensen>
today might be the day I move my nixos config out of /etc/nixos, or chown it to my user...
<gchristensen>
tired of the sudo / no sudo dance
<samueldr>
:D
<gchristensen>
feels blasphemous to move it out of that dir :)
<samueldr>
as I said before, I run my systems assuming /etc/nixos is owned by the end-user (single-user computers)
<samueldr>
oh, and my system's nixpkgs checkout lives inside /etc/nixos, at /etc/nixos/nixpkgs :)
<elvishjerricco>
I use NixOps to deploy to localhost. I'm not in love with it, but it lets me use `deployment.keys`, and I don't have to hard code the uri to the S3 bucket my desktop uploads stuff to.
<elvishjerricco>
So all my config is just under my home directory
<jD91mZM2>
gchristensen: Heh, that's one of the first things I did
<jD91mZM2>
You have patience :)
<elvishjerricco>
NixOps really isn't suited to rapid redeployment though. It evaluates the expression like 3 times, and it ALWAYS uploads keys
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<gchristensen>
I don't like my config to be "weird" so I can experience it more like new users
<samueldr>
gchristensen: do you consider chmodding "weird"?
<gchristensen>
I'm not saying I've been rational
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