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<kalbasit[m]>
I've decided to refresh myself on programming languages, last I did any was in 2010 when I was doing Scheme. gchristensen infinisil clever what do you think of this book for Haskell http://a.co/d/dxfTAep
<andi->
The very same book was recommended to me some time ago. Haven't bought / looked into it tho... It seems to be one of the better introductions
<srhb>
It has a very "from scratch" approach that I think a lot of people like. So you want to learn Haskell? Let's start with a quick intro to lambda calculus. Makes sense to me.
<andi->
I hesitate to buy it because i never learned by the book.. Like none of the non-functional languages I write I learned by reading a book.. I mostly just read source code and the eventually lookup some terms..
<LnL>
yeah same, I'm practically incapable of finishing a book :p
<srhb>
Remembering back to when I was learning Haskell, I really struggled with some concepts. Being able to look them up in a book would have been very welcome. However, the online free resources are much better now, so maybe that's not a very important argument.
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<ldlework>
srhb: heya
<srhb>
ldlework: o/
<ldlework>
srhb: wanna try my screen recording/capture tool?
<ldlework>
after you run the first time check ~/.config/recap/rc.toml for defaults
<ldlework>
image uploading currently hangs for some reason
<ldlework>
not sure why
<srhb>
ldlework: I might have time to look tonight. :)
<ldlework>
cool
<ldlework>
srhb: i am calling "imgur-screenshot FILE-NAME" with python subprocess and it hangs and I can't figure out why
<ldlework>
imgur-screenshot is in nixpkgs
<ldlework>
i am using subprocess with other tools just fine
<ldlework>
this one just hangs tho
<ldlework>
very annoying
<ldlework>
oh I think I fixed it
<ldlework>
heh
<ldlework>
wait no
<ldlework>
dang it
<ldlework>
it is like it doesn't close stdout correctly so python just reads forever
<ldlework>
well i fixed it
<ldlework>
heh
<sphalerite>
,tell jD91mZM2 thing with borg is it's really really slow compared to zfs snapshotting
<{^_^}>
sphalerite: I'll pass that on to jD91mZM2
<ldlework>
sphalerite: you wanna give it a try?
<ldlework>
nm i'll write docs first
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<gchristensen>
kalbasit[m]: I don't know Haskell, but I've fond http://typeclasses.com/ helpful
<tazjin>
kalbasit[m]: +1 for haskellbook.com - typeclasses.com is by one of the same authors but is targeting people with an intermediate understanding of Haskell iirc, so it may not be the best place to start
<tazjin>
back when I learned Haskell I also found the happstack book / crash course to be quite useful, but that's probably pretty outdated by now
<tazjin>
gchristensen: that's definitely true for LYAH
<tazjin>
but I think HFFP actually takes it far enough to give you enough skills to build real applications
<tazjin>
but working through a 1000+ page book is tedious, I've never done that sort of thing myself, it's much easier to collect some basic building blocks and hop into some project and research topics as they come up (for me anyways)
<tazjin>
gchristensen: also, that image totally applies to the Nix language manual :D
<LnL>
we have a nix "language" manual?
<gchristensen>
maybe... but I can copy-paste a mkDerivation and get going
<gchristensen>
HFFP?
<tazjin>
haskell from first principles, i.e. haskellbook.com
<gchristensen>
ah. I got bored of learning lambda calculus symbols and just wanted to parse some json from a URL and reached for python :|
<tazjin>
it's like "there are basic types and multiline strings, now draw the rest of the owl"
<LnL>
tazjin: that's a chapter, and not an especially great one to learn more than just the syntax
<LnL>
the closest thing we have to a language manual is somebody's medium post :p
<tazjin>
gchristensen: something like "Haskell pills" may be useful, but it's hard to predict what sort of stuff people really are interested in
<gchristensen>
right
<srhb>
tazjin: Isn't typeclasses by both Julie and Chris? I thought it was.
<tazjin>
yes
<tazjin>
different Chris though :)
<srhb>
Oh!
<srhb>
I never realized.
<tazjin>
it's a slightly confusing coincidence :D
<srhb>
No kidding. i see it now. Never paid attention to the last names. Derp :P
<gchristensen>
hey Nix people, I'm probably going to be able to travel a bit either before or after NixCon -- where should I go?
<gchristensen>
(**meeting Nix people is a plus :))
<gchristensen>
(y'all can get back to me on that.)
<tazjin>
gchristensen: Oslo is a nice place if Scandinavia is on the list of potential destinations, though you may be dragged in front of a group for an Oslo Nix meetup in that case
<gchristensen>
I've been told this before.
<gchristensen>
maybe I could do a northerly tour, hamburg -> copenhagen -> oslo, and meet up with some people who have been wanting a visit.
<tazjin>
all three of these are nice places to go to
<srhb>
gchristensen: Please let me know if you do hit Copenhagen. I can't offer you accomodation, but I'd love to meet you in town if possible :)
<gchristensen>
will you be at nixcon?
<tazjin>
I can offer accommodation in Oslo btw
<srhb>
Unfortunately no. D:
<srhb>
So sad.
<gchristensen>
tazjin? (are you ngnghm?)
<tazjin>
I'm not
<tazjin>
also, I will be at NixCon
<tazjin>
if that was part of the question
<gchristensen>
it was :)
<gchristensen>
great!
<LnL>
gchristensen: there are much more interesting places to visit, but if you pass by Belgium let me know :)
<gchristensen>
hmmmmm
<gchristensen>
okay I need to travel to the EU much more often to visit all the places I want to go.
<LnL>
you could also go to the other side, there are a bunch of nix people in Australia, Japan, ...
<gchristensen>
the thing that makes it easy to visit EU people is I get my company to pay for my travel :P
<tazjin>
gchristensen: you could attempt to attend some of the major OSS/tech events we have here
<gchristensen>
oohh
<tazjin>
#1 is probably the chaos communication congress (Leipzig, December)
<tazjin>
#2 probably Fosdem (Brussels, February)
<andi->
I think he meant more close to the actual nixcon dates unless he wants to spent 3 months before and after ;)
<andi->
but yeah those two would be worth it - especially #1 is a nice change from most tech conferences IMO
<tazjin>
I think the CCC is probably the best conference
<gchristensen>
nice, ldlework!
<andi->
tazjin: it is too croweded these days (but I have been there a lot already and change is evil ;))
<andi->
*crowded
<tazjin>
the Leipzig venue is so much larger that you don't notice it as much
<tazjin>
obviously last year when Snowden gave his talk there were some _slightly_ crowded hallways, but I thought it was fine apart from that :P
<joepie91>
blah, Twitter account got locked
<joepie91>
SMS verification nonsense
<joepie91>
apparently I am a bot for criticizing blockchains, or something
<manveru>
how dare you!
<etu>
tazjin: I hope it's in Leipzig this year.
<joepie91>
help, the blockchain and nosql hype cycles are merging
<etu>
tazjin: Mostly because I've booked hotel and flights a few months ago.
<etu>
:D
<joepie91>
I now have somebody arguing at me that sharding of data will magically improve security and reduce data breaches by splitting up data, and that therefore Blockchain
<tazjin>
etu: I have booked multiple hotel rooms even, so I sure hope so :P
<gchristensen>
joepie91: careful now, it is almost as if you _like_ it
<joepie91>
gchristensen: :(
<etu>
tazjin: :DD
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I didn't ask for this! the whole new brand of stupidity came out of left field
<manveru>
joepie91: just store 1 bit on every machine on earth, impossible to hack :D
<joepie91>
like, regular blockchain fanatics I can deal with...
<joepie91>
manveru: just encode data by storing all the 1s on powered-on machines and all the 0s on powered-off machines!
<gchristensen>
let's leave the chains at the door
<__monty__>
Yay, fosdem!
<LnL>
I forgot about fosdem last year xD
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<samueldr>
WHEW, big UX fail from github: the comments textarea was reduced in height when clicking "Preview", and bringing down the "Merge pull request" button to where the tabs previously were...
<jD91mZM2>
samueldr: And you noticed this because you accidentally clicked them, I assume?
<{^_^}>
jD91mZM2: 4 hours, 13 minutes ago <sphalerite> thing with borg is it's really really slow compared to zfs snapshotting
<jD91mZM2>
good bot
<jD91mZM2>
pats
<samueldr>
jD91mZM2: at least no, but I was really close to, I *do* have an eye for those failures of UX since it's part of my job *not* to do them and to find them in code reviews
<joepie91>
hehe
<jD91mZM2>
What's your job?
<samueldr>
developer, web developer, but also does the "ops" part of the job, working frontend and backend, I think there's a term used for that, but I dislike it
<samueldr>
"ops" as in the devops part
<jD91mZM2>
Cool!
<joepie91>
samueldr: ah, you've informally and unilaterally added "UX person" to your job description like I have? :P
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<joepie91>
(or is it a formal part of your job description?)
<samueldr>
I don't really have a formal job description other than "can do everything" ;)
<joepie91>
ah, heh
<joepie91>
yeah, similar for me I guess
<samueldr>
but I have all the experience and knowledge requisite (I think)
<joepie91>
"makes the thing work well"
<joepie91>
for ever-varying definitions of "the thing"
<joepie91>
(freelance)
<tazjin>
for formal job descriptions I recommend generalising
<tazjin>
mine is "Computer Typist", which accurately describes what I do but also doesn't limit it too much
<joepie91>
lol
<__monty__>
tazjin: That's so limiting. Mine's just "Thinks."
<simpson>
I just wanted to make sure mine had "senior" in it~
<tazjin>
__monty__: that sets very high expectations though, sometimes I'm too tired/hungover/whatever to think properly, but typing still works
<tazjin>
then with a language like Haskell on hand you can do some nice, mindless refactoring and just follow the compiler's commands
<__monty__>
That's why it's not "Thinks properly" ; )
<tazjin>
simpson: Senior Computer Typist is from 140wpm and upwards
<simpson>
tazjin: Right. But "Senior Site Reliability Engineer" is what's on my card, and I can survive with a modest 90-100wpm.
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<joepie91>
Senior Computer Person
<joepie91>
alternative, Senior Computer Therapist depending on how bad your infrastructure is
<joepie91>
alternatively*
<simpson>
Ha, that's definitely how it feels sometimes.
<simpson>
At least my team is on-board with the idea of writing docs.
<jD91mZM2>
When I get old enough for a job I'm going to need to call it "Professional complainer about computing technologies and infrastructure"
<gchristensen>
that is a pretty high level title righ there
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<sphalerite>
samueldr: is the term you don't like "full stack"?
<samueldr>
yeah
<samueldr>
mostly be cause of the "jack of all trade, master of none" that generally comes with it :/
<joepie91>
the onset of the 'full stack' terminology was really weird for me
<joepie91>
it was like... yeah, I've been doing this for years? what do you mean it's a new concept? a ton of people already do this?
<joepie91>
and slowly realized that it was pretty much just a red flag for the 'master of none' that samueldr describes...
<samueldr>
joepie91: yeah, I'm not against doing it, I'm against the way it's advertized and buzzworded
<joepie91>
right, same
<samueldr>
it's a major flag, but I would also flag someone with absolutely no knowledge in the stack
<joepie91>
note that for me it's the word that's the red flag
<samueldr>
uh, I mean, no knowledge except a thin slice of the stack
<joepie91>
not the practice :)
<samueldr>
same
<joepie91>
the best fullstack devs are those who studiously avoid the term, in my experience
<samueldr>
because generally those not using the word, but with experience, will generally present an honest overview
<samueldr>
full-stack will say: I'm a frontend expert; honest will say: I use bootstrap and jquery, but not much else
<samueldr>
both mean the same :/
<samueldr>
(wildly exagerated claims, obviously)
<joepie91>
corollary: frontend experts are never
<joepie91>
pretty much every single expert at something frontend-y that I've spoken to, has provided a much more specific definition of what they are an expert at
<joepie91>
usually design, or UX, or "UX" (ie. marketing), or frontend logic, etc.
<samueldr>
I tell it as such: I'm an integration expert; DOM + CSS + UX, where DOM is in different forms
<samueldr>
but don't ask me to do those fancy CSS animations, I don't know (yet) how to!
<samueldr>
(I mean those on par with what flash could do)
<samueldr>
(not transitions ;))
<jD91mZM2>
Oh, just wait until you see Swedish television. "Here we have a computer expert"
<samueldr>
s/Swedish //
<samueldr>
(while it isn't what you meant, it's appropriate ;))
<jD91mZM2>
"Here we'll teach you code: `studio.flip()` *bad fps animation of screen doing a flip*"
<joepie91>
window.YTD.tweet.part0 = [ {
<joepie91>
yeah uh hey twitter
<joepie91>
I don't think that's exactly compliant with the GDPR's data portability requirements
<joepie91>
exporting JS files
<kalbasit[m]>
LnL: srhb: gchristensen: thank you for the pointers, I've already started on the book I've mentioned before, it's pretty interesting. I'll definitely check out the haskellbook if I encounter anything that I can't wrap my head around. The good news is that I've studies lambda calculus as well as functional programming for 3-4 years, bad news that was back in 2006-2010. It's just like riding a bike anyway, I'll catch up
<kalbasit[m]>
quick. I'm hoping this will get me to understand Nix a bit better overall
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