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<Ke> technically UFS
<Ke> anyone else concerned that realms on armv9 might mean adding ARM only controlled PSP/ME thingy?
<Ke> not sure how that would work, if they license the ip so there could not be any hidden keys
<Ke> maybe they just mean protection from board vendor, not SoC manufacturers
<simpson> Happens. The only way to discourage it is to reverse-engineer whatever DRM gets built and leak the keys.
<clever> Ke: i could see that issue existing with armv8 as well
<clever> EL3 where trustzone/ME stuff runs, is optional
<Ke> in general though the concept is nice, if only it was made user controllable, which does not allow some use cases though
<Ke> clever: sure, but it's optional
<clever> enless the firmware gives itself away via runtime behaviour or being visible in the boot rom
<Ke> ME/PSP were not so much at some point
<clever> you have zero way to tell the difference between it being absent, or it deciding your not trustworthy
<clever> so it might be present, without you knowing it!
<clever> its purely down to how much you trust the creator of the chip, and if trusted firmware is found, that talks to an EL3 that "shouldnt exist"
<clever> optional does not garantee missing
<Ke> I don't mean that there is some way to not to trust the fab or any process beyond that, I mean PSP is always on and incompetence can hurt me
<clever> EL3 can at least sorta be shut off
<clever> if you dont setup any handlers, i think the cpu will never get back into EL3 (would have to confirm that...)
<Ke> there were designs where you could add a couple of capacitors and transistors and hijack the system by fab
<clever> but with things like PSP? and the VPU(on rpi chips), its an entirely seperate cpu
<Ke> practically undetectable
<clever> it cant really be shut off, and with stock firmware, it must remain functional, or you loose major features
<clever> Ke: do you know much about the rpi stuff?
<Ke> isn't rpi horrible in all sorts of imaginable ways, not touching it anyway
<clever> what horrors have you heard of?
<Ke> I know enough to stay away from it
<Ke> nothing I would remember too concretely
<clever> i can run linux+nixos on the pi2 and pi3, with zero blobs involved
<clever> fully open source, for the entire stack
<Ke> I did read some text written by some person who gave up on open source fw previously
<Ke> also the fact that it's different with no visible reason is a turn off to me
<clever> pi0 and pi1 are able to start booting with fully open firmware as well, but linux crashes mid way thru the boot
<Ke> being different is ok for people, but for standardized tech not so much
<Ke> but surely I can admit you know more
<clever> i have been working on the rpi-open-firmware project for about a year now, and know the hw at a fairly deep level
<Ke> yes, you mentioned before
<clever> the most recent major progress, is getting composite video functional, the first time i can get any video at all out of it
<clever> and just this week, getting the arm functional from little-kernel, which makes developing new features far simpler
<clever> with a bit more work combining those 2, i believe i could get X11 running, and have a functional desktop env
<clever> and then its basically just another SBC, minus some hw accel
<Ke> anyway, what's the relation to the original topic, or did you digress?
<Ke> or we
<clever> that the VPU firmware could pull off tricks similar to a PSP or ME firmware
<Ke> sure, but that's specific to each SoC, not all of ARM
<clever> the VPU is able to somehow access the arm jtag, and deny access to chunks of ram
<Ke> now the idea is that you select the nicest SoC you can
<clever> yeah, just on this one specific set of implementations
<clever> i was aiming more for an SoC with a pre-existing large user-base
<clever> so users could jump ship at zero cost
<Ke> I can admit that many socs have peripherals that are not sufficiently isolated, though it might be that you don't need to turn them on
<Ke> I guess ARM has no reason to make Realms mandatory, though NXP as an automotive vendor might have
<Ke> then again Qoriqs are not automotive
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<Ke> so librem phone packages was presumably close to merge and now it has gone stale, is it due to requiring patches in existing packages?
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<samueldr> no real details yet, but looking at the help, looks like it's a generic tool that uses the previously released mediatek bootrom exploits to... do stuff...
<samueldr> hopefully soon do... more stuff, like backup/restore
<samueldr> the author (bkerler) has a authored a qualcomm EDL client too
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