<samueldr>
I kind of find it disgusting at points how much is wasted in a towering pile of weirdness, rather than cutting back from it
<samueldr>
especially considering another team at Google has shown how to do things right :(
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<simpson>
That's life. Or, at least, that's life as designed by our corporate overlords.
<samueldr>
if we had access to 0.1% of the funding or efforts that's given to Android, I wonder how much it'd help
<ashkitten>
samueldr: so do you think the GKI project will actually help get devices running mainline?
<samueldr>
I don't know the actual important details
<samueldr>
it's always skimmed over in articles
<samueldr>
but if it really runs mainline, yes
<samueldr>
but "project mainline" is NOT about mainline linux
<samueldr>
it's about running _android_ mainline
<samueldr>
it's about shifting control back into Google's hands for system components
<ashkitten>
right
<ashkitten>
but android mainline is much closer to actual mainline, and would mean potentially that device support is upstreamed?
<samueldr>
so I guess the answer will always be: whatever runs on those devices we can run with too
<samueldr>
and if it's closer to mainline linux, maybe that can help
<samueldr>
but if they don't send patches to upstream, it won't
<samueldr>
that's basically the big difference
<samueldr>
is it "vendor-flavoured recent kernel" or is it "recent kernel with patches that are sent to the mailing lists already"
<samueldr>
the former is how it looks like Android's will always work
<samueldr>
the latter is how chromeos does it
<ashkitten>
it really depends what google's policy on accepting changes will be. maybe they'll require that hardware support goes upstream, maybe changes will only be upstreamed to the android mainline kernel
<ashkitten>
and then it would depend on their requirements for patches. but at least we'd know the kernel wouldn't come out as broken as some of these vendor kernels, right?
<samueldr>
there's also the whole thing of getting OEMs on board
<samueldr>
I wonder _when_ it will be mandatory for the kernel side
<ashkitten>
i believe it was that any device that ships with android 11 and a 5.4 or later kernel
<samueldr>
until it's mandatory to get the google services, OEMs won't play ball
<samueldr>
like A/B
<ashkitten>
sure
<samueldr>
thinking a bit more
<samueldr>
I think it might cause even more "harm"
<samueldr>
we might start seeing OEMs just point you to google's side of sources
<samueldr>
and not opening up their kernel moduels
<samueldr>
modules*
<samueldr>
since the goal is to interface with kernel modules from vendors!
<samueldr>
that would be from unscrupulous vendors, but still
<samueldr>
or even from those that were misinformed by their legal department
<samueldr>
"nah, you don't have the kernel source code in there, it's fine to redistribute without source"
<ashkitten>
modules still need to be built against a specific kernel
<samueldr>
specific _enough_
<ashkitten>
so google wouldn't be able to push out kernel updates if the sources were unavailable
<samueldr>
the goal _is_ to make all customizations from OEMs be kernel modules
<samueldr>
so I don't know how that'll be handled other than being extremely careful in the ABIs
<ashkitten>
does the android mainline kernel have a stable abi?
<samueldr>
I don't know
<ashkitten>
hmm
<samueldr>
so yeah, my probably misinformed opinion is that until they mandate contributions to flow back to mainline linux, it's not going to really help
<samueldr>
might make it a bit easier to get a foothold on some devices though
<samueldr>
but it already isn't that hard
<ashkitten>
hopefully it means kernels will be less broken
<samueldr>
that's one hope
<samueldr>
actually common code base so that they can all be elevated at once
<ashkitten>
it'd be interesting even if some vendors don't release module sources, there could potentially be a drop-in abi-compatible replacement for the android mainline kernel without android patches
<ashkitten>
someone would have to maintain that though
<samueldr>
yeah
<ashkitten>
i have an nvidia jetson nano now. i don't know what to do with it
<nbp>
ashkitten: I used a Rpi, as a motion detection camera, with a SIM card hat which text me :D
<ashkitten>
oh, it's a jetson tk1
<nbp>
Then you realize that motion detection is bad … :P
<samueldr>
nbp: tree moved
<samueldr>
better looks at your messages, the tree moved again
<samueldr>
or something else?
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<ashkitten>
samueldr: halp
<ashkitten>
samueldr: how do boot jetson tk1
<ashkitten>
ky0ko is laughing at me
<samueldr>
last time I looked for someone here it looked quite bad
<samueldr>
you may need some custom nvidia tools to produce something bootable
<samueldr>
in a custom setup
<samueldr>
but I didn't dig deep
<ky0ko>
if you want to be in charge of u-boot, yes, and you can only flash u-boot externally
<ky0ko>
if you don't, you don't need any of that, you just need to make an sd card image u-boot likes
<samueldr>
last I looked there weren't even u-boot for it IIRC
<samueldr>
so already there's been progress :)
<ky0ko>
it's always had u-boot
<ky0ko>
though for a period the official images didn't use it
<samueldr>
then I guess the docs the other user had were somewhat misleading
<samueldr>
or maybe it wasn't the jetson nano but another nvidia board?
<ky0ko>
this isn't a jetson nano, this is a jetson tk1
<samueldr>
oh
<samueldr>
or maybe it wasn't a k1, but something else
<samueldr>
I had assumed right now that all of those boards booted the same way
<ky0ko>
most of the ones before X1 boot in a similar fashion
<ky0ko>
X1 is different
<ky0ko>
i think that's the nano?
<samueldr>
I don't really know, too expensive in Canada for a play toy
<ky0ko>
we got these because someone we know did a group buy thing for a couple of the rabb.it racks (each of which have 5 jetson tk1 and 10 intel nuc boards)
<ashkitten>
is armv7 even built by hydra
<samueldr>
no :(
<ashkitten>
dang
<ashkitten>
i need an armv7 image
<ashkitten>
tk1 is not aarch64
<samueldr>
for now cross-compilation is the way to get a foothold
<samueldr>
all the workarounds required for the time being
<samueldr>
some might have been handled since
<ashkitten>
does this output an sd image with a dtb?
<ky0ko>
i am trying to advice ashkitten on how to boot this but i dont know anything about how nixos handles things
<samueldr>
by default it outputs "the SD image" that can be booted by mainline u-boot using its "generic distro" scheme
<ky0ko>
that's exactly what is needed
<ashkitten>
okay
<samueldr>
ky0ko: just verifying here, it's extlinux-based, on ext4
<ky0ko>
okay, that works
<samueldr>
alrighty :)
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<samueldr>
some (way) older u-boot won't have that at all
<samueldr>
or at least, not part of the default runcmd
<ky0ko>
not the setup i'm using on mine, but this u-boot does have ext and extlinux support integrated
<samueldr>
great
<samueldr>
it's setup (from before I got involved) to respect README.distro from the u-boot sources
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<colemickens>
Does anyone have stats on cross-compiling vs using qemu?
<colemickens>
I'm debating between compiling with qemu on a free 64 core VM versus just booting an Amazon instance for an hour and paying a dollar or two for a build.