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<angerman>
who's been playing with putting nixos on the kobol Helios64?
<samueldr>
not I yet
<samueldr>
mine's still (likely) on the high seas
<samueldr>
angerman: anything in mind?
<samueldr>
I took a look earlier this month and it seems pretty standard
<angerman>
samueldr: it just arrived.
<samueldr>
lucky you
<angerman>
now I need to find some spare time
<samueldr>
>> Example, because freight is still super costly for Canada, we are currently working with a forwarder to bulk ship next week all orders for Canada at once.
<samueldr>
that's the reason I'm saying it's on the high seas
<angerman>
They bulk shipped them to SG, and then used a really cheap local delivery for the last mile.
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<angerman>
Sitting in Asia sometimes has benefits :D
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<sphalerite>
angerman: aaaah I want mine too
<sphalerite>
angerman: how long did it take to advance from "Processing" on the order check page, and how long after that until it arrived?
<samueldr>
the order check page?
<sphalerite>
oh, you're in Singapore. I missed that.
<sphalerite>
well, mine's been "Processing" for 4 weeks
<samueldr>
yeah, I assume mine too
<samueldr>
oh, found the info about shipping to canada in my mails though
<samueldr>
Just a heads up to let you know that your parcel has left our warehouse in China to reach a fulfilment partner in Canada. The journey to Canada is made by sea, so it will take around 4 weeks to reach the facility.
<samueldr>
Once it reaches the fulfilment facility in Canada (Mississauga), we will provide you with a tracking number for the last portion of the delivery.
<samueldr>
(received on the 17th)
<samueldr>
so I guess at least another two weeks
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<angerman>
sphalerite: no idea to be honest. I got an email a while back where they said they'd ship bulk to SG.
<angerman>
about 3days ago, I got 3(!) messages from Qexpress.
<angerman>
today it arrived.
<sphalerite>
angerman: aren't they in Singapore themselves?
<angerman>
sphalerite: came from Shenzhen I think
<sphalerite>
ah ok. kobol itself does seem to be singaporean though
<angerman>
ahh, so I can go trash their office if stuff doesn't work :D
<angerman>
Always good to support the local economy
<sphalerite>
hahaha
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<Ke>
what I really love about the extlinux conf boot approach is that it hardcodes almost nothing about physical layout, so you can more or less install to a directory
<Ke>
this means that if you can compile the u-boot image, you can stage a recovery from existing nixos fairly trivially without having physical hardware that you move
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<angerman>
yuck. Next time I buy legos...
<angerman>
the case ain't level. T_T
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<kahiru>
like, it is not standing straight up?
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<angerman>
kahiru: it’s standing on 3 out of four rubber feet.
<angerman>
People should just design three base contact points. Those will never have these issues.
<angerman>
I guess I can just move one rear pad into the middle and remove the other one.
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<angerman>
Level issues are my biggest problem with shipped hardware. The armrest for the keyboard want level either.
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<HackerIdiot>
hello I just visited nixos-mobile site but didn't find anything to install in my phone
<HackerIdiot>
can anyone help me out
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<HackerIdiot>
anyone there
<HackerIdiot>
🧐🧐
<simpson>
Yes, but I don't know. Which kind of phone do you have?
<HackerIdiot>
I have vivo phone
<simpson>
I haven't heard anybody talk about that phone. I doubt that we have anything ready-made for you right now, but if you're willing to hack, then you might be able to make something for yourself.
<HackerIdiot>
OK sure I'm ready for it
<HackerIdiot>
simpson: are you there
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<simpson>
HackerIdiot: Not really, no. But always, yes? I don't know.
<simpson>
Importantly, you'll want to know the SoC's information. Who made it, its make and model, the SoC name that Linux uses for it, any Device Tree stuff, etc.
<simpson>
I haven't yet had time to do this myself, or I'd have more guidance.
<samueldr>
HackerIdiot: first (obvious?) step is to know whether the bootloader can be unlocked on the phone
<samueldr>
just like you would for an Android ROM
<samueldr>
that's a make it or break it kind of deal
<samueldr>
then, some initial "facts gathering" has to be done to know more, e.g. is there a kernel source code release for the phone? is it aarch64?
<HackerIdiot>
I will try it on my rooted phone
<samueldr>
but before starting, a word of warning: this is not a project that is "ready" and usable. Assuming you can port it to your phone as much as I have done for other phones, there is a 50/50 chance your wifi will not work, there has been no work done yet for cellular communications
<samueldr>
and a last word of warning: strong assumptions are made that we can erase the data on the phone, otherwise it becomes a bit harder to deal with
<samueldr>
there's also a big assumption that the user / porter is quite familiar with NixOS, as it builds entirely on top of NixOS
<HackerIdiot>
OK I will first try on my other experiment phone so it would be easy for me to format it totally
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<samueldr>
definitely, I would strongly suggest not using it on your main phone for the time being :)
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<samueldr>
and uh, before you start, know that there is no "actual guide" about porting, for the time being
<HackerIdiot>
ok
<samueldr>
the general method is to figure out the details specific to your device, and base that upon a similar device
<simpson>
Or, rather, there's no guide that's not just how to cross-compile NixOS + how to port Linux to ARM boards.
<samueldr>
... up until the past week-end
<samueldr>
yeah
<samueldr>
nothing specific to Mobile NixOS
<samueldr>
there's a tool for android-based devices that can help you get started now
<samueldr>
is will get most of the information from there
<samueldr>
it*
<samueldr>
though it will not "complete" the port; as in you will need to provide a derivation for the kernel (which you can base on a similar device's) and you will need to change kernel configuration options
<HackerIdiot>
right now I'm trying on nix-on-droid
<simpson>
samueldr++ for this; it is very encouraging.
<{^_^}>
samueldr's karma got increased to 0o425
<HackerIdiot>
thank you
<samueldr>
simpson: whenever you have a day off, with autport it gets much easier since most of the guess work ends up being the kernel
<samueldr>
which I might be looking into solving a chunk soon
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<simpson>
samueldr: Oh, I've been unemployed for months. It's more a question of gumption and of digging out my hardware. (And of making sure that I've got the CPU for building packages.)
<samueldr>
unemployment does not necessarily mean day off or free time!
<samueldr>
stage-1 is entirely cross-compiled
<samueldr>
stage-2 you can either cross-compile a "hello world type" demo stage-2, or get a native stage-2 from hydra if it's aarch64
<simpson>
Ah, that's something I'd forgotten about; will I be in deep trouble if I use a years-old phone? Is arm6/arm7 too old?
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<samueldr>
well, pre-built useful stage-2 won't be a thing
<samueldr>
and the kernel could be too old for systemd
<samueldr>
_could_
<samueldr>
but in theory it might still "work" for some values of work
<samueldr>
asus-flo, nexus 7 2013, is armv7l, too old to boot systemd, but stage-1 fully works
<simpson>
I have one of the older Motorolas with the hardware keyboard. It doesn't need to do much to be extremely cool.
<samueldr>
up until it tries to boot the system :)
<samueldr>
though if it's old enough, and popular enough, maybe there are mainline ports for it
<samueldr>
still, stage-2 is an issue
<simpson>
...Maybe this is the greenfield needed to develop non-systemd NixOS variants.
<samueldr>
well, there's more issues than systemd with an old kernel
<samueldr>
even kernels that can boot with systemd can lack important features
<simpson>
Yes, true; perhaps it'd be just a graveyard for old devices.
<samueldr>
I was just saying :)
<samueldr>
but in practice it would be useful to have a "non-NixOS" stage-2 story
<simpson>
Right, I shouldn't get my hopes up. But that's okay; it's 2020 and my hopes are not especially high.
<simpson>
"boots" is pretty good!
<samueldr>
something that is nix-built still
<samueldr>
I haven't confirmed since earlier this year, but armv7l worked on asus-flo up to stage-2
<samueldr>
if armv7l wasn't such a bunch of issues I would have looked for a mainline-based kernel more in depth
<samueldr>
silver lining: wifi is more likely to work easily with an older device :)
<simpson>
I found a Beagle! Not a phone.
<samueldr>
beagle board / bone ?
<simpson>
Yeah. Old red board from the initial runs, with the TI DSP. I also found an LG Pixel! That's a phone. I don't remember what's wrong with it; TBH it might just not be compatible with my current carrier.
<samueldr>
ugh
<samueldr>
can't look up that phone
<samueldr>
because LG manufactures the google pixels
<samueldr>
so it's been forgotten by google
<simpson>
I believe that it's a Pixel 3, although it may be a Pixel 2. I'll find out once it's charged enough to boot.
<samueldr>
:|
<samueldr>
I assumed it would have been a pre-android device from LG named "pixel"
<samueldr>
because that's not much of an old phone
<simpson>
I found a Samsung A930! This is a feature phone; it's far too old, and I'm gonna donate it. Good thing, too; the battery started to bulge, and I've isolated it. The camera on this phone is rad; it has a hardware swivel to rotate between front- and back-facing.
<samueldr>
feature phones often were neat
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<simpson>
I found an Android 4.0 Mini PC! Yes, that's the real name; it's made by OEM Systems and I think that they just like generic bland names. It's not a phone, but it does run Android.
<samueldr>
oof
<simpson>
Okay, good haul, good treasure hunt, good dive into my past of trash.
<simpson>
I was really hoping to find a Motorola Droid, which has a hardware keyboard and I'm pretty sure no flaws other than being EOL.
<samueldr>
omap 3430, Cortex-A8, armv7
<simpson>
samueldr: Okay, the Pixel's got battery now. It's soft-bricked; it's got Cyanogenmod on it and the home screen sticks in a crash-loop. No SIM card. It's a Pixel 5 "hammerhead".
<samueldr>
Nexus!
<samueldr>
snapdragon 800, armv7
<samueldr>
though IIRC there's good mainline work for it
<simpson>
How do I use your autoport tool without the overlay configured?
<samueldr>
there is one caveat with "README.adoc", the first four lines of the device-specific doc **have** to be the title, the include, a blank line, and the "Device-specific notes" heading
<samueldr>
(the first three are stripped out when rendering the page)
<simpson>
Got it, thanks.
<simpson>
,locate bin/adb
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: adbfs-rootless, haskellPackages.adblock2privoxy
<samueldr>
hm
<simpson>
,locate adb
<samueldr>
programs.adb.enable
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: msf, axis2, oh-my-zsh, python27Packages.pwntools, python37Packages.pwntools, python38Packages.pwntools, python27Packages.adb-homeassistant, python37Packages.adb-homeassistant, python38Packages.adb-homeassistant
<samueldr>
you want to use the option for the proper udev rules
<simpson>
Fair enough.
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<simpson>
The mini PC is called an MK802. No idea who makes them. The SoC is an Allwinner (sunxi) and the dmesg looks reasonable, but I don't know how to identify the ROM for matching it up with known hardware.
<samueldr>
no idea really
<samueldr>
AFAIK those kind of allwinner boards "don't match up" to common android-based devices
<samueldr>
you're most likely better served by looking into "normal" linux
<samueldr>
sadly its pillow went spicy and it never was the same after
<simpson>
It's fine. I mostly needed to look at other armv7l devices, and other Google devices. I am now at https://bpa.st/O4WQ and I suspect that I need to pin nixpkgs to something specific?
<samueldr>
still, asus-flo is probably its closes implemented board
<simpson>
My nixpkgs is somewhere near master, which is probably far too fresh.
<samueldr>
any recent nixos-unstable should work
<samueldr>
weird, that's an *old* change post 20.03
<simpson>
Ah, maybe it's somewhere near master but actually not really.
<samueldr>
we're evaluating and building fine tracking unstable for a while
<samueldr>
(ignoring firefox not always finishing)
<simpson>
Hm, doesn't work even with nixpkgs master. I wonder what I failed to fill out.
<samueldr>
that particular error really seems to point out to using an older nixpkgs
<samueldr>
(or that master since last nixos-unstable update removed that option)
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<simpson>
D'oh! I was using system nixpkgs; I accidentally unloaded my shell and lost my $NIX_PATH.
<samueldr>
:)
<samueldr>
so it pointed to using an older Nixpkgs I see
<samueldr>
I underestimated how grating it would be to wait on kernel builds to revamp the kernel builder
<simpson>
Yeah, it was using my system channel. ("Oh, that's my system nixpkgs. It's also named nixpkgs. Just like my other nixpkgs.")
<simpson>
,locate kernel-normalize-config
<{^_^}>
Couldn't find in any packages
<samueldr>
it's a tool from the repo under its bin directory
<simpson>
Oh, yeah, just found it.
<samueldr>
bin/kernel-normalize-config $device
<simpson>
I had assumed that it was one of the Linux kernel scripts.
<samueldr>
it would have been nice if it really existed that way
<simpson>
What's up with compiler-gcc6.h? I'm not familiar with this but I know how to imitate what existing devices do. Is it armv7l-specific?
<samueldr>
I'm not 100% positive of the whole history
<samueldr>
but with gcc6+ on older kernels that file is desired and not present
<simpson>
The file itself has a link to a 404'd issue from an SoC vendor.
<samueldr>
that's not even specific to Mobile NixOS or postmarketOS
<simpson>
Understandable.
<simpson>
Oh! Maybe it's because Linux kernels that old don't know about GCCs that new?
<samueldr>
most likely
<simpson>
And you were right about asus-flo. I had to borrow 00_fix_return_address.patch from there. But now we're off and CC'ing.
<samueldr>
it seems like qualcomm devices generally behave similarly in "epochs"
<simpson>
I get a warning on every gcc, `warning: switch -mcpu=cortex-a15 conflicts with -march=armv7-a switch`, but meh? I gather that GCC still does the right thing, it's just grumpy and passing that grumpiness on to me.
<samueldr>
exactly
<samueldr>
we could "fix" it by patching the kernel tree I guess
<samueldr>
NIxpkgs itself adds -march flags
<samueldr>
so yeah, it would be helpful to identify "qualcomm epochs"
<samueldr>
so e.g. you know that snapdragon 600 is ~ equiv to snapdragon 800
<samueldr>
and know that snapdragon 660 is equivalent to ??? in the 8xx range
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<simpson>
Okay, so right now I guess I'm building a kernel. I didn't time it, but I'm guessing that it'll take nearly an hour. What do I need to know afterwards? My mind's apparently repressed basically everything; ISTR Device Tree, fastboot packing, secure signing or sideload? I kind of copied what the other Google devices did without really thinking.
<simpson>
thefloweringash: I'm working on using the LineageOS 16.0 kernel, which is Linux 3.4.0, much older than the PostmarketOS kernel you started with, which is Linux 5.6.0, it looks like?
<samueldr>
ideally we'd package both, the OEM tree, and the mainline-based tree
<samueldr>
but I don't know how useful either will be
<simpson>
I don't have strong opinions, other than that it's not fun being stuck on older Linux. But I don't know what the tradeoffs are like at all.
<simpson>
Also, do you prefer `lg-hammerhead` or `google-hammerhead`? The latter matches what autoport creates, but the former is understandable since LG's marks are the ones on the physical device.
<samueldr>
lg- since at the time google "didn't make" them
<samueldr>
while current devices may be made by LG or HTC, but "google makes them"
<samueldr>
and ideally, you look around at postmarketOS and LineageOS to guesstimate
<simpson>
Okay. Then it's probably going to be easiest for me to just add work onto what thefloweringash has produced, assuming that their WIP got far enough to boot and etc.
<samueldr>
I think it will need a refresh of its device info file
<simpson>
Okay. I'm going to wait for thefloweringash to reply before I go further; I want to collaborate and include their work.
<samueldr>
might take a good while due to timezone diffs :)
<simpson>
Sure. On the other device, it's a sunxi with mainline support. Do we have a non-Android sunxi workflow?
<samueldr>
there's no clear cut porting instructions
<samueldr>
but the basic idea is to get mainline u-boot going
<simpson>
Ah, yes, effort.
<simpson>
My nemesis~
<samueldr>
haha
<samueldr>
whenever I'll need to get a job, I hope I can figure out an employer that employs me for making NixOS on ARM and Mobile NixOS better (and only that)
<simpson>
That sounds nice. I'd go for that. I don't know who's paying for that sort of thing, though.
<samueldr>
same
<simpson>
Part of me feels quite silly for having passed up an opportunity with Collabora when I was younger. But also, it would have been a lot of work and maybe I'd be just as grumpy and burnt-out.
<simpson>
...Okay, the FEL mode on the sunxi works. Great. I'll look into mainline u-boot when I get more gumption and round tuits. And also a Micro SD card.
<samueldr>
all three part of mainline u-boot already
<samueldr>
so hopefully it's only a question of picking the right one
<samueldr>
u-boot cross-compiles fine to armv7l
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<simpson>
I added a ubootMK802, but I'm not sure how to actually make the cross-compilation start. It complains that it can't build for "arm-none"?
<simpson>
error: Package ‘uboot-mk802_defconfig-2020.07’ in /home/simpson/nixpkgs/pkgs/misc/uboot/default.nix:96 is not supported on ‘arm-none’, refusing to evaluate.
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<samueldr>
pkgsCross you chose the armv7l one?
<simpson>
Hm. I tried `pkgsCross.arm-embedded.ubootMK802` which doesn't work, but now I'm trying `pkgsCross.armv7l-hf-multiplatform.ubootMK802` and it seems to be building. Did I misread the wiki, or is the wiki wrong?
<samueldr>
wrong I guess
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<simpson>
...Hold on, "hf" is hardware floats, right? Is that right for armv7l? Ugh, my head is swimming from ARM.
<samueldr>
I think so
<samueldr>
I never really followed up, and I think it's only on ARMv5 and lower that it's an issue?
<simpson>
Well, it built. Just gotta find a Micro SD card and do the rest of the needful.
<samueldr>
the offsets to burn it as universal to sunxi boards AFAIK
<simpson>
Yeah. I want to boot from SD, see if it works, maybe build and tweak a few more times. Maybe always boot from SD, depending on how far I want to go.
<simpson>
Like, in a very real way, it's just another (not-yet-)brick in the wall; it's just another device to add to nixpkgs and make sure everything works.
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